17:57:26 RRSAgent has joined #ua 17:57:26 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/01/08-ua-irc 17:57:28 RRSAgent, make logs public 17:57:28 Zakim has joined #ua 17:57:30 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 17:57:30 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 3 minutes 17:57:31 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 17:57:31 Date: 08 January 2015 17:57:35 rrsagent, set logs public 17:57:46 chair: JimAllan 17:58:47 agenda+ Followup comments on Text Customization in UAAG (1.4 & 1.8) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014OctDec/0071.html 17:58:49 agenda+ GL 4 comments 17:59:01 Agenda+ MS03 - 1.4.1 text format separation OS/AT - remove last bullet line spacing. 18:00:54 Greg has joined #ua 18:00:57 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started 18:01:04 +Jim_Allan 18:01:46 Jan has joined #ua 18:01:51 zakim, code? 18:01:51 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan 18:02:09 +[IPcaller] 18:02:10 +Jeanne 18:02:25 +Greg_Lowney 18:02:51 zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan 18:02:51 +Jan; got it 18:04:12 regrets: Eric 18:04:18 scribe: allanj 18:05:15 +Kim_Patch 18:06:14 New Disposition update http://jspellman.github.io/UAAG-LC-Comment/ 18:07:02 brb 18:07:44 Kim has joined #ua 18:08:29 back 18:08:55 open item 3 18:13:57 In Firefox, right-click anywhere on the page, choose Inspect Element to bring up the Page Inspector, click the Style Editor button, type the following into the source pane: "* {line-height:200%}". 18:14:38 proposal withdrawn. 18:15:38 text customization http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014OctDec/0071.html 18:16:05 proposal withdrawn http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2015JanMar/0004.html 18:16:09 close item 3 18:16:18 Open Item 1 18:19:49 discussion of comments 18:20:09 jr: need to arrive at spirit, not specific numbers. 18:21:11 js: need to be technology agnostic and not so specific (have comments regarding being too specific) 18:22:15 1.8.5 Allow Zoom: 18:22:16 The user can rescale content within top-level graphical viewports as follows: (Level A) 18:22:18 Zoom in: to 500% or more of the default size 18:22:19 Zoom out: to 10% or less of the default size, so the content fits within the height or width of the viewport 18:22:55 gl: worry about when we say 3 values, they may choose the smallest increments that meet the rule but are not helpful to users. 18:24:38 gl: agree with Jan, that we change wording and give at least 1 and a range 3 values between 1.25 and 2 18:26:09 maybe...Line spacing, choosing from a range with at least three values up to at least 2 times the default. 18:26:42 Topic: 1.4.1 increments 18:27:01 from the LC 9/14 Line spacing, choosing from a range with at least three values 18:30:14 gl: note: better to provide a large range of increments. go into reference doc 18:30:44 RESOLUTION: change bullet 4 of 1.4.1 to be "Line spacing, choosing from a range with at least three values up to at least 2 times the default." 18:32:28 Note: When it comes to magnification, size, or spacing, the optimum value for a given user would vary based on their visual impairment and the size of the content they’re reading. Therefore it’s recommended that user agents provide a wider range of values, and a greater number of increments, to allow the user to adjust the view for their current task. 18:33:23 ... At a minimum, we recommend 1, 1.25, 1.5 and 2.0 18:33:46 That Note applies not just to 1.4.1 bullet 4, but also to a number of other SCs and their bullets. 18:34:10 Maybe it should join the other 3 Notes in the intro to 1.4. 18:34:17 ... At a minimum, we recommend a line spacing options of 1, 1.25, 1.5 and 2.0 18:34:45 Although I wouldn't mind linking to that Note from the related resources for each affected SC, or reiterate it. 18:36:23 1.4 Note 3 is incorrect. It says "For platforms without user stylesheets, text configuration needs to be provide to users through the user agent's main user interface." but it can also be satisfied using extensions. 18:37:57 At a minimum, we recommend a line spacing options of 1, 1.25, 1.5 and 2.0, and a text scale of 1, ... 18:39:14 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2014/ED-UAAG20-20140410/#gl-text-config 18:40:44 Last CAll version of 1.4 is http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-UAAG20-20131107/#gl-text-config 18:41:18 js: the reason we too out the numbers was to be more consistent 18:43:18 js: numbers should not be in main document, and better in reference doc 18:44:11 jr: like the line height number. good to quantify where we can - provide a range, but not strip all numbers. 18:45:44 URI? 18:45:51 http://w3c.github.io/UAAG/UAAG20-Reference/#sc_141 18:48:19 At a minimum, it is recommended to give line spacing options of 1, 1.25, 1.5 and 2.0. 18:49:22 At a minimum, it is recommended to offer line spacing options of 1, 1.25, 1.5 and 2.0. 18:51:35 RESOLUTION: Added Note 4 to GL1.4 and changed the intent of 1.4.1 18:51:57 1.4 Note 3 is incorrect. It says "For platforms without user stylesheets, text configuration needs to be provide to users through the user agent's main user interface." but it can also be satisfied using extensions. 18:52:19 Topic: 1.4 Note 3 in error? 18:52:36 current wording Note 3: The success criteria in guideline 1.4 can be met through user stylesheets. For platforms without user stylesheets, text configuration needs to be provide to users through the user agent's main user interface. 18:53:12 As I said, it can also be met using extensions, not just the main UI. 18:53:54 proposed: Note 3: The success criteria in guideline 1.4 can be met through user stylesheets. For platforms without user stylesheets, text configuration needs to be provided to users through the user agent's main user interface or via an extension.. 18:55:36 RESOLUTION: changed wording on Note 3 to be Note 3: The success criteria in guideline 1.4 can be met through user stylesheets. For platforms without user stylesheets, text configuration needs to be provided to users through the user agent's main user interface or via an extension. 18:56:39 topic: 1.8.5 allow zoom 18:57:01 From Shawn: Current text: "1.8.5 Allow Zoom: The user can rescale content within 18:57:01 top-level graphical viewports as follows: (Level A) Zoom in: to 500% or 18:57:01 more of the default size..." 18:57:01 As it is written, a user agent that provided just two options for zoom: 18:57:01 100% and 500%, would meet this criteria; however, that's not 18:57:01 sufficiently accessible because the vast majority of users who need zoom 18:57:02 will need it at a percent in between 100 & 500%. 18:57:12 comment: Current text: "1.8.5 Allow Zoom: The user can rescale content within 18:57:14 top-level graphical viewports as follows: (Level A) Zoom in: to 500% or 18:57:15 more of the default size..." 18:57:17 As it is written, a user agent that provided just two options for zoom: 18:57:18 100% and 500%, would meet this criteria; however, that's not 18:57:20 sufficiently accessible because the vast majority of users who need zoom 18:57:21 will need it at a percent in between 100 & 500%. 18:57:51 Above is Shawn's comment, pasted in twice 18:57:52 -Jan 18:58:55 ja: don't see only 500% I see a range 18:59:28 gl: the wording means a UA could do only 500% and comply 19:02:14 js: this is already well implemented, the UA already have nearly infinite zoom up to 500%, this is fighting over wording for something that is already done. UAAG wording is agnostic and allows UAs to use what ever method to provide the scaling to 500% 19:05:19 kp: agrees with js 19:05:58 gl: raises mobile device flag...different devices provide different limitations 19:07:26 RESOLUTION: Comment is not accepted because this is already well implemented, the UA already have nearly infinite zoom up to 500%, this is fighting over wording for something that is already done. UAAG wording is agnostic and allows UAs to use what ever method to provide the scaling to 500% 19:10:08 Topic: Character spacing 1.4.3 19:10:30 perhaps add the range of values to the reference document 19:10:34 Line spacing of at least 1.0, 1.3, 1.5, and 2.0 times the font height 19:10:36 Character spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, 0.09 times the base character width 19:10:36 Shawn's comment: * Current text: "Character spacing, choosing from a range with at least 19:10:36 5 values" This may have the same issue as above, although maybe not because the 19:10:36 range of character spacing needed is far less, afaik. 19:10:37 Word spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, 0.09 times the base character width 19:11:34 gl: not currently implemented in UAs, user must use CSS and can choose whatever size they need. 19:12:12 RESOLUTION: add the following to the Reference document for 1.4.3 19:12:16 Line spacing of at least 1.0, 1.3, 1.5, and 2.0 times the font height 19:12:18 Character spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, 0.09 times the base character width 19:12:19 Word spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, 0.09 times the base character width 19:13:34 Line spacing is already in 1.4.1, and Word spacing has been dropped 19:14:07 RESOLUTION: add Character spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, 0.09 times the base character width to reference doc under 1.4.3 19:17:33 Topic: Inconsistencies 19:17:42 Fonts are installed, colors are platform 19:18:02 We should change 1.4.2 to say "installed fonts" rather than "platform fonts", to match 1.4.1. 19:22:17 RESOLUTIONS: UA will use "installed fonts" and "platform colors" - additional fonts can be installed, colors only exist on the platform 19:27:07 topic: *Missing* text style 19:28:46 gl: want to be able to turn off Globally bold, italics, and underline. 19:29:25 I argue that there is a need to be able to turn off bolding, underlining, and italicizing; turning them off is less important, although there may be cases where a person finds a certain font, bolded, to be the easiest to read, and wants to have the entire page done that way. 19:30:10 js: bolding decreases character spacing and increases character width. 19:31:03 I disagree, people would be better served with a different font or size than bolding. 19:34:21 ED-UAAG20-20131030-table.htm: 1.4.3 Text Spacing and Style (Globally): The user can globally s 19:34:23 et all of the following characteristics of visually rendered blocks of text:(Level AA) * Line spacing of at least 1.0, 1.3, 1.5, and 2.0 times the fon 19:34:24 t height * Character spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, 0.09 times the base character width * Word spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, 0.09 ti 19:34:26 mes the base character width * Text style (underline, italic, bold) * Justification (left, right, or full) 19:35:12 As you can see, we used to have text style as a required global configuration. 19:35:35 was in http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2014/ED-UAAG20-20140213/#gl-text-config 19:37:02 rrsagent, make minutes 19:37:02 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/08-ua-minutes.html allanj 19:39:17 Discussing whether word-spacing should be restored, after we deleted it a while back. It can be adjusted using CSS using Page Inspector, Stylish, etc., just as other things we do require (e.g. line spacing). 19:40:01 Jeanne is concerned that it might discourage things like PDF rendering plug-ins from trying to comply with UAAG20, if they can't comply with something as small as word spacing. 19:40:18 -Kim_Patch 19:40:22 rrsagent, make minutes 19:40:22 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/08-ua-minutes.html allanj 19:40:40 zakim, please part 19:40:40 leaving. As of this point the attendees were Jim_Allan, Jeanne, Greg_Lowney, Jan, Kim_Patch 19:40:40 Zakim has left #ua 19:41:23 rrsagent, make minutes 19:41:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/08-ua-minutes.html allanj 19:42:14 rrsagent, please part 19:42:14 I see no action items