18:01:23 RRSAgent has joined #social 18:01:23 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/01/06-social-irc 18:01:25 RRSAgent, make logs public 18:01:25 Zakim has joined #social 18:01:27 Zakim, this will be SOCL 18:01:27 ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM scheduled to start now 18:01:28 Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference 18:01:28 Date: 06 January 2015 18:02:24 Zakim, who is on the call? 18:02:24 T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has not yet started, eprodrom 18:02:26 On IRC I see RRSAgent, jasnell, eprodrom, Adam, caseorganic, Morbus, elf-pavlik, AnnBassetti, Shane, jaensen, jaywink, Arnaud, KevinMarks, cwebber2, pdurbin, rhiaro, bigbluehat, 18:02:26 ... wilkie, JakeHart, mattl, bret, Loqi, nickstenn, oshepherd, rektide_, dwhly, kylewm, Tsyesika, jessica_lily, aaronpk, trackbot, sandro, wseltzer 18:02:35 Oh, I thought I had started it 18:02:37 zakim, this is socl 18:02:37 ok, Arnaud; that matches T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM 18:02:41 +aaronpk 18:02:44 Arnaud: thanks 18:02:44 zakim, who's on the call? 18:02:44 On the phone I see +1.514.554.aaaa, +1.314.777.aabb, Arnaud, jasnell, aaronpk 18:02:52 Zakim, aaaa is me 18:02:52 +eprodrom; got it 18:02:57 +??P6 18:03:02 zakim, aabb is me 18:03:02 +Adam; got it 18:03:03 Zakim, ??P6 is me 18:03:03 +rhiaro; got it 18:03:03 +??P4 18:03:06 +??P7 18:03:11 Zakim, ??P4 is me 18:03:11 +Shane; got it 18:03:15 Zakim, mute me 18:03:15 Shane should now be muted 18:03:17 +Sandro 18:03:26 Zakim, who is on the call? 18:03:26 On the phone I see eprodrom, Adam, Arnaud, jasnell, aaronpk, rhiaro (muted), Shane (muted), ??P7, Sandro 18:04:19 Zakim, who is on the call? 18:04:19 hi 18:04:20 On the phone I see eprodrom, Adam, Arnaud, jasnell, aaronpk, rhiaro (muted), Shane (muted), elf-pavlik, Sandro 18:04:26 I'm trying to connect 18:04:32 I'm not hearing audio 18:05:05 +??P10 18:05:14 Zakim, ??P10 is me 18:05:14 +oshepherd; got it 18:05:19 other SIP lines are working for me, but zakim/w3c is not 18:05:30 Zakim, who is on the call? 18:05:30 On the phone I see eprodrom, Adam, Arnaud, jasnell, aaronpk, rhiaro (muted), Shane (muted), elf-pavlik, Sandro, oshepherd 18:05:32 I can scribe assuming my connection holds 18:05:41 thx rhiaro :) 18:05:41 Can we have a backup in case I drop out? 18:05:44 scribenick rhiaro 18:05:49 i can backup 18:05:55 thanks elf-pavlik :) 18:06:04 I can't hear, will just have to follow on IRC for now 18:06:13 scribenick: rhiaro 18:06:27 TOPIC: Approval of minutes 18:06:32 eprodrom: Minutes not on the wiki 18:06:56 oh I thought they were posted... hmm 18:07:12 ... I will find the minutes. 18:07:12 ACTION eprodrom get the minutes for the 12/16 meeting online by next week 18:07:12 Created ACTION-24 - Get the minutes for the 12/16 meeting online by next week [on Evan Prodromou - due 2015-01-13]. 18:07:26 ... Will get them online for next week. Sorry. 18:07:49 +??P9 18:07:53 ... Next week telecon doesn't have much of an agenda, but will be on. 18:07:56 the minutes are here, must have not been linked from the page: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-12-09-minutes 18:07:57 TOPIC: Open actions and issues 18:08:01 Zakim, ??P9 is me 18:08:01 +bret; got it 18:08:09 Zakim, mute me 18:08:09 bret should now be muted 18:08:18 http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/open 18:08:19 eprodrom: There are a few open actions 18:08:31 ... Some have been on the list for a while 18:08:31 aaronpk, 2014-12-16 18:08:41 oh my bad 18:08:47 ... eg. figuring out licencing for pubsubhubbub, has just fallen off the radar 18:09:00 ... A couple related to AS2.0 18:09:09 scribe was Doug Schepers, not evanpro and myself 18:09:10 ... jasnell, can you address some open issues? any updates? 18:09:18 +[IPcaller] 18:09:24 Zakim, IPcaller is me 18:09:24 +wilkie; got it 18:09:37 jasnell: Action 9, extended vocab discussion in editors draft 18:09:42 ... More work once we're further on with the api 18:10:07 ... Will be merging everything from base schema. Action 9 complete. 18:10:27 ... What else? 18:10:39 ... JSON-LD context ns not set up yet (14). 18:10:50 bblfish has joined #social 18:10:59 ... Annotation model: can close it. Would be good to reconnect to the annotations group and see where they're at 18:10:59 +??P12 18:11:05 ... They're not doing anything directly with AS yet 18:11:07 Zakim P12 is me 18:11:19 Zakim, ??P12 is me 18:11:19 +jessica_lily; got it 18:11:25 Zakim, mute me 18:11:25 jessica_lily should now be muted 18:11:37 + +1.773.614.aacc 18:11:41 ... The other one to do with Social APIs. Colleague Bill Ruby(?) will put together doc about Connections API. He's joined group. 18:12:01 eprodrom: tantek has an open action to close another action... can close that. 18:12:12 ... Last meeting we decided date and location of f2f 18:12:13 tantek has joined #social 18:12:14 Zakim, ??+1.773.614.aac is me 18:12:14 sorry, cwebber2, I do not recognize a party named '??+1.773.614.aac' 18:12:18 Zakim, +1.773.614.aac is me 18:12:18 +cwebber2; got it 18:12:32 sandro, are we good for dates for f2f? 18:12:35 +??P14 18:12:38 nicolagreco has joined #social 18:12:47 ... sandro to make sure we have venue in Cambridge 18:12:48 99% sure. paste the times again? 18:13:00 This Cambridge, MA or Cambridge, UK? :P 18:13:07 Zakim, ??P14 is m 18:13:07 +m; got it 18:13:09 sandro, I will post those dates in a moment 18:13:09 Zakim, ??P14 is me 18:13:09 I already had ??P14 as m, tantek 18:13:10 March 17-18 18:13:11 MA 18:13:25 ... Dates March 17-18 at MIT 18:13:29 I thought so, but felt the need to avoid ambiguity :P 18:13:39 Zakim, ??P14 is not m 18:13:39 I don't understand '??P14 is not m', tantek 18:13:41 double chekcing room now 18:13:44 sandro, if you can confirm we can start making travel plans 18:14:03 tantek: Also discussed the next two days being an indiewebcamp 18:14:11 and libreplanet is very shortly after too 18:14:22 Zakim, help 18:14:22 Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help. 18:14:24 Some of the commands I know are: 18:14:24 xxx is yyy - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx 18:14:24 if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted 18:14:24 xxx may be yyy - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx 18:14:24 I am xxx - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx 18:14:24 xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group 18:14:26 xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx 18:14:26 who's here? - lists the participants on the phone 18:14:26 who's muted? - lists the participants who are muted 18:14:26 mute xxx - mutes party xxx (like pressing 61#) 18:14:26 unmute xxx - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61# 18:14:26 is xxx here? - reports whether a party named like xxx is present 18:14:27 list conferences - reports the active conferences 18:14:28 this is xxx - associates this channel with conference xxx 18:14:28 excuse us - disconnects from the irc channel 18:14:28 I last learned something new on $Date: 2013-03-03 19:18:47 $ 18:14:50 eprodrom: elf-pavlik action on microsyntaxes 18:14:52 https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Microsyntaxes 18:14:54 elf-pavlik: Completed 18:15:23 eprodrom: Arnaud, can you clear some actions? 18:15:29 Arnaud: no problem 18:15:47 eprodrom: 8, 9, 21 and 22 need closing 18:15:56 ... And 18 18:16:28 ... Anything else to add to list right now? 18:16:37 +Ann 18:16:44 Zakim, mute me 18:16:44 tantek should now be muted 18:16:48 ... Biggest not finished here is updating schedule 18:17:11 q+ re: dates on schedule 18:17:17 ... How do we get our schedule up to date? Have option to clear it out and just show milestones. Most dates are in the past. Pushed off until next week 18:17:26 ... My other one is to make sure minutes get up to date. 18:17:36 ... Any other tasks for this list? 18:17:47 elf-pavlik: Can we just remove dates until we have updated ones? 18:17:55 agree with remove outdated dates and have no dates instead 18:17:56 ... Better to have no dates than dates in the past. 18:17:57 Meeting space confirmed for March 17-18 (and also 19-20 for IndieWebCamp) 18:18:06 sandro awesome! thanks! 18:18:14 eprodrom: We agreed last time to keep dates, we have committments on them, on milestones 18:18:32 ... Will update as soon as possible. 18:18:47 ... As a quick fix, will clear out old dates and replace with TBD 18:18:54 https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg#sched 18:18:59 agree, sounds good to see outdated dates replaced with TBD 18:19:08 ... Anything else? 18:19:25 q- 18:19:26 ... We have some issues not yet resolved 18:19:35 ... That came from the f2f 18:19:39 ... But not ready for actions 18:19:47 ... (unless someone has any feedback?) 18:19:53 http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/open 18:20:06 ... If not, moving on 18:20:12 TOPIC: Coordination with the SocialIG 18:20:33 eprodrom: There's a telecon scheduled for tomorrow. The question is priorities in the next two weeks. Use cases are an important priority. 18:20:41 ... Are there other things we need to ask the interest group to update or concentrate on? 18:20:44 q+ re: IG 18:20:49 ack elf-pavlik 18:20:49 elf-pavlik, you wanted to discuss IG 18:20:59 q+ re: IG and annotations use-cases 18:21:30 elf-pavlik: Will write about meetings with people from friendica, diaspora, etc for IG 18:21:59 ack tantek 18:22:01 tantek, you wanted to discuss IG and annotations use-cases 18:22:31 tantek: Use cases in Annotation WG. Can we ask SocialIG to look into annotation use cases? Or if no-one has any interest, also useful to know. 18:22:41 hmm .. interesting 18:22:44 ... Have we asked them? 18:23:18 eprodrom: Important question. The last time we discussed this was at the f2f and KevinMarks was the liason for the Annotation WG 18:23:24 tantek: but not the IG 18:23:32 I can bring it to IG telecon tomorrow 18:23:36 eprodrom: Don't know if there's someone form the IG to liaise 18:23:53 q+ 18:23:57 tantek: Really useful to know if anyone from SocialIG is or isn't interested in annotations 18:24:12 eprodrom: Find a way to formalise relationship between SocialIG and Annotations 18:24:25 tantek: A few days ago topic of quotations posts came up in indiewebcamp, so did some research 18:24:33 http://indiewebcamp.com/quotation 18:24:37 ... When is something in a quotation vs reply vs bookmark 18:24:51 ... Tried to see if there's similar research in Annotations community - didn't find anything. 18:24:51 nickstenn, FYI ^ 18:25:06 ... If anyone knows anything about any other research about post types where you're doing something with someone elses posts, please tell! 18:25:18 ... If not, I submit my research for consideration (indiewebcamp.com/quotation) 18:25:32 eprodrom: In my experience, sounds similar to AS Share verb 18:25:48 ... kind of a retweet or repost or reshare activity 18:25:56 tantek: In indieweb we call it repost 18:25:57 these are always interesting cases in semantics. like vs favorite vs bookmark too. 18:26:08 eprodrom: But quotation is like whole thing, quotation is a subset 18:26:11 tantek: correct 18:26:31 ... if you do post somebody's entire post but go in and emphasise, that becomes more of a quotation than a share 18:26:38 http://indiewebcamp.com/quotation#Emphasis_exception 18:26:54 eprodrom: Really interesting case, because it's so common 18:26:57 Sounds like the difference between RT (retweet) and MT (modified tweet) on twitter 18:27:13 tantek: Just want to ask if anyone else knows of any other research 18:27:23 eprodrom: Another thing to bring up with IG 18:27:25 q? 18:27:33 ack AnnBassetti 18:27:38 Shane: yeah, it more or less is. people find a way to be creative about semantics. it's just natural. 18:28:14 AnnBassetti: Just wanted clarification from tantek, but have it now. Only distinction I might make is for annotations in this context, we would want to figure out how to distinguish it for social as opposed to any old random annotation 18:28:21 ... I think tantek's research does that, will have to look 18:28:29 ... Will bring it up at IG if nobody else does 18:29:01 ... Don't know where the annotation wg is going with this 18:29:04 annotations for personal use vs, public shared use? 18:29:11 ... I imagine if I'm looking at a webpage, I can just be annotating it for myself 18:29:17 ... Just makeing scribble notes. 18:29:24 ... On the other hand, could want to share notes 18:29:37 tantek: Good point. Private notes. 18:29:46 ActivityStreams already has addressing properties. Perhaps its just the case of using them? 18:30:11 oshepherd: It'd be interesting to try to model it in AS 2.0 18:30:14 Private notes would just be to: [], cc: [] 18:30:16 Zakim, mute me 18:30:16 cwebber2 should now be muted 18:30:21 I have a lot of annotations (of a kind) on my site that only show when I'm logged in 18:30:23 ... Private notes are important consideration 18:30:43 ... Private notes historically have been considered part of social domain 18:31:01 ... All social efforts have typically included private notes as part of their work and their scope 18:31:08 AnnBassetti: How does that work? 18:31:15 as in social domain covers notes to yourself in the same way they do when shared with others? 18:31:18 tantek: Different opinions welcome, but that's always been the case 18:31:45 AnnBassetti: In indieweb, everyone has own site. So if you're doing your own work and posting it on your site for you, but anyone else can read it? 18:31:52 tantek: Depends on permissions, indieweb and elsewhere 18:32:01 ... Public, friends-only, private, to individuals 18:32:18 AnnBassetti: If you give permission to somebody, that's where the social aspect comes in? 18:32:41 tantek: The larger effort of all these things being social consider private posts to be in scope, rather than needing to contact another person 18:32:53 ... I realise that seems semantically unusual, but culturally that's how it seems to be in these communities 18:32:59 -Shane 18:33:01 Once you have the ability to address posts exclusively to certain people, yourself just becomes a part of that 18:33:22 AnnBassetti: I could post something to myself, but maybe at some point in the future I could pull you into my confidence and expose it to you 18:33:25 tantek: Good example 18:33:39 ... Anything that's potentially social 18:33:47 AnnBassetti: Potentially any human activity is social 18:33:56 tantek: Constrain to the Web.... 18:34:06 there are webs in caves too 18:34:11 eprodrom: Before we go too far down that path... 18:34:40 we should get philosophical :) we are trying to capture the entirity of human creativity. the challenge is not getting overwhelmed while also not being too limiting. 18:34:42 +??P16 18:34:44 Zakim, ??P16 is me 18:34:44 +Shane; got it 18:34:45 ... The other item I want to discuss at the IG is that we've had a process that we've been following for the Social API, which has been to review APIs from proprietary systems 18:34:46 Zakim, mute me 18:34:46 Shane should now be muted 18:34:55 ... To understand patterns that happen in those APIs 18:35:04 https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API 18:35:04 ... And get to a point where we can assemble functional requirements of a social API 18:35:07 -Shane 18:35:15 -oshepherd 18:35:31 ... We've done 9 maybe 10 18:35:33 Hmm, having trouble with the call, will go irc-only now 18:35:35 +??P4 18:35:44 ... Analysis on wiki as well as discussion in calls 18:35:52 ... Really is time to take evaluations and make them into set of requirements 18:36:00 ... against which we'll measure candidates for the Social API 18:36:12 ... Will be useful to get input from the IG in that process 18:36:19 ... Does that seem reasonable? 18:36:27 +1 18:36:41 ... If nobody objects, will put that on agenda for IG tomorrow 18:36:42 ACTION eprodrom discuss Social API functional requirement process with IG 18:36:42 Created ACTION-25 - Discuss social api functional requirement process with ig [on Evan Prodromou - due 2015-01-13]. 18:37:01 ... Anything else to bring up with IG? 18:37:11 ... Great. 18:37:28 ... One more agenda item 18:37:33 TOPIC: Schedule 18:37:41 ... Don't know if we need to discuss this further 18:37:56 TBD 18:38:00 ... Confirm milestones, but will have to discuss next week 18:38:07 ... Anything else we need to discuss this afternoon? 18:38:14 ... If not, we can end call 18:38:17 q+ to talk about 2015-01-01 personal site shipments 18:38:23 elf-pavlik: One topic for next week 18:38:32 ... We had some discussion about media objects in AS. Images, audio, video etc 18:38:52 ... We could try to focus on moving forward with some proposals on how to handle media objects in AS. 18:39:00 ... There were two different conversations, but didn't make progress. 18:39:06 ... If other people are interested, would be good to focus on that 18:39:25 ... Can we discuss over mailing list this week, and have some resolution to discuss for next week? 18:39:41 eprodrom: Great, will add to agenda for next week 18:39:45 elf-pavlik: is there an open issue where image representation is contended? 18:39:58 ... Anything else? 18:40:22 wilkie, i'll try to dig up various email threads and github issue around that 18:40:24 tantek: informally mention that various indieweb people committed to ship features by 1st Jan 18:40:31 http://indiewebcamp.com/2015-01-01 18:40:44 ... If anyone was working on personal site and shipped something, please add yourself to indiewebcamp wiki 18:40:51 elf-pavlik: sounds good 18:40:58 Working a new blog impl based on AS2 and Linked Data Platform here. Not shipped yet. Hopefully by face to face 18:41:00 ... Interesting to see where people are at and what features are drawing attention 18:41:04 ... Open invitation for anyone 18:41:21 thanks 18:41:23 -jasnell 18:41:23 q? 18:41:24 thanks 18:41:26 eprodrom: If that's it, we'll end 18:41:27 ack tantek 18:41:27 tantek, you wanted to talk about 2015-01-01 personal site shipments 18:41:31 -Adam 18:41:31 thanks eprodrom, rhiaro, all! 18:41:33 -eprodrom 18:41:35 -??P4 18:41:35 Thanks all 18:41:39 -cwebber2 18:41:42 -bret 18:41:43 bye 18:41:43 -elf-pavlik 18:41:44 -wilkie 18:41:45 great minutes, rhiaro! 18:41:46 -rhiaro 18:41:46 -aaronpk 18:41:47 -jessica_lily 18:41:47 -Sandro 18:41:48 -tantek 18:41:53 rhiaro++ 18:41:53 rhiaro++ thanks for great minutes! 18:41:54 rhiaro has 4 karma 18:41:58 rhiaro++ 18:42:00 rhiaro has 5 karma 18:42:06 did someone make minutes? 18:42:34 -Arnaud 18:43:57 trackbot, end meeting 18:43:57 Zakim, list attendees 18:43:57 As of this point the attendees have been +1.514.554.aaaa, +1.314.777.aabb, Arnaud, jasnell, aaronpk, eprodrom, Adam, rhiaro, Shane, Sandro, elf-pavlik, oshepherd, bret, wilkie, 18:44:00 ... jessica_lily, +1.773.614.aacc, cwebber2, tantek, Ann 18:44:05 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 18:44:05 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/06-social-minutes.html trackbot 18:44:06 RRSAgent, bye 18:44:06 I see no action items 18:44:57 RRSAgent has joined #social 18:44:57 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/01/06-social-irc 18:45:46 RRSAgent, make logs world-visible 18:46:25 harry has joined #social 18:46:29 RRSAgent, bye 18:46:29 I see no action items