15:53:11 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
15:53:11 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-wai-wcag-irc
15:53:13 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:53:15 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
15:53:15 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
15:53:16 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
15:53:16 <trackbot> Date: 16 December 2014
15:53:32 <AWK> Chair: AWK
15:53:37 <AWK> Zakim, Agenda?
15:53:37 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
15:55:03 <Kenny> agenda+ Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20141216/
15:55:16 <Kenny> agenda+  Publication schedule
15:55:34 <Kenny> agenda+  upcoming meetings
15:56:29 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has now started
15:56:32 <Joshue108> Joshue108 has joined #wai-wcag
15:56:36 <Zakim> +Andrew_Kirkpatrick
15:56:49 <Joshue108> zakim, agenda?
15:56:50 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
15:56:50 <Zakim> 1. Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20141216/ [from Kenny]
15:56:50 <Zakim> 2. Publication schedule [from Kenny]
15:56:50 <Zakim> 3. upcoming meetings [from Kenny]
15:58:17 <AWK> agenda+ QuickRef tasks
15:58:34 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:58:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see Andrew_Kirkpatrick
15:59:41 <Kenny> regrets+ Christophe_Strobbe, Barry_Johnsone, David_MacDonald, Kathy_wahlbin,bathy_Wahlbin,Alistair_Garrison,Mike_elledge,Moe_kraft, Jonathan_Avila
15:59:55 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:00:04 <Joshue108> zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
16:00:04 <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
16:00:08 <yatil> zakim, call EricE-Skype
16:00:08 <Zakim> ok, yatil; the call is being made
16:00:10 <Zakim> +EricE
16:00:30 <AWK> s/Barry_Johnsone/Barry_Johnson
16:00:30 <yatil> zakim, nick yatil is EricE
16:00:30 <Zakim> ok, yatil, I now associate you with EricE
16:00:56 <AWK> s/bathy_Wahlbin,/
16:01:16 <Ryladog_> Ryladog_ has joined #wai-wcag
16:02:04 <Zakim> +??P3
16:02:16 <Zakim> +Katie_Haritos-Shea
16:02:34 <Kenny> zaki,call kenny-mobile
16:02:42 <Kenny> zakim,call kenny-mobile
16:02:42 <Zakim> ok, Kenny; the call is being made
16:02:44 <Zakim> +Kenny
16:02:50 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:02:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Joshue, EricE, Michael_Cooper, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Kenny (muted)
16:02:51 <yatil> zakim, mute me
16:02:53 <Zakim> EricE should now be muted
16:02:54 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
16:02:56 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:03:11 <Kenny> zakim,mute me
16:03:11 <Zakim> Kenny should now be muted
16:03:23 <Joshue108> cribe list:https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
16:03:36 <AWK> regrets+Brent_Shiver
16:03:42 <AWK> regrets+ Brent_Shiver
16:04:01 <AWK> regrets+ Bruce_Bailey
16:05:05 <AWK> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
16:05:55 <Joshue108> zakim, who is on the phone
16:05:55 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', Joshue108
16:05:59 <Joshue108> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:05:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Joshue (muted), EricE (muted), Michael_Cooper, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Kenny (muted)
16:06:18 <Joshue108> zakim, unmute me
16:06:18 <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
16:06:32 <Zakim> +Marc_Johlic
16:06:34 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
16:06:43 <adam_solomon> adam_solomon has joined #wai-wcag
16:06:48 <Loretta> Loretta has joined #wai-wcag
16:07:01 <yatil> ack me
16:07:09 <yatil> zakim, mute me
16:07:09 <Zakim> EricE should now be muted
16:07:14 <yatil> scribe: EricE
16:07:20 <yatil> scribenick: yatil
16:07:23 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:07:35 <Loretta> zakim, IPcaller is Loretta
16:07:35 <Zakim> +Loretta; got it
16:08:16 <yatil> agenda?
16:08:43 <yatil> zakim, take up item 1
16:08:43 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20141216/" taken up [from Kenny]
16:08:45 <AWK> Take up item 1
16:08:59 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:09:01 <AWK> TOPIC: Unanimous consent items
16:09:08 <adam_solomon> zakim, [IPcaller] is adam_solomon
16:09:08 <Zakim> +adam_solomon; got it
16:09:19 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
16:09:19 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:09:32 <AWK> RESOLUTION: LC-2950 and LC-2871 are accepted as proposed
16:09:56 <AWK> TOPIC: LC-2960
16:10:01 <yatil> TOPIC: LC-2960
16:10:51 <AWK> ARIA2: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/ARIA2.html
16:10:59 <yatil> AWK: This is ARIA2. Suggested that there are other than optical clues that could work with this technique.
16:11:24 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140306/2960
16:11:31 <Joshue108> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/commit/c9e1068eb94838df9670110e29746175ff854b5e#diff-0
16:12:03 <yatil> … Made an adjustment to refer to presentation than just visual information. Presentation more general.
16:12:55 <Joshue108> ARIA 2 changes URI https://github.com/w3c/wcag/commit/c9e1068eb94838df9670110e29746175ff854b5e#diff-0
16:13:33 <yatil> Loretta: Proposed change is fine to me. Got distracted by GitHub…
16:14:03 <yatil> [AWK reads Sailesh’s comments]
16:15:15 <yatil> Loretta: Presentation seems to be perceived as visual.
16:15:20 <Joshue108> ack me
16:15:21 <Joshue108> +q
16:15:23 <AWK> Def of presentation: rendering of the content in a form to be perceived by users
16:15:25 <Joshue108> ack me
16:15:33 <yatil> AWK: It is carefully defined to not mean visual only.
16:16:08 <yatil> Josh: I think your response is fine, presentation is not only visual.
16:16:13 <yatil> AWK: Others?
16:17:03 <yatil> Josh: We should find out why he’s not happy here.
16:18:30 <yatil> AWK: It also doesn’t have a test. We could have it one of two ways: Writing this technique just for the visual use case or for broader presentation use cases. We try to do the latter.
16:18:49 <yatil> Marc: Rewording might make it much more clear.
16:19:11 <yatil> … probably “which is presented as being required”.
16:20:16 <yatil> AWK: Sailesh seems to think that it is about visual presentation. But it is not. I wouldn’t add an audio indication, and if I did other success criteria would come into play.
16:20:28 <Joshue108> q?
16:20:34 <AWK> zakim, queue?
16:20:34 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
16:20:40 <yatil> … Examples are visual as well, probably we need some other means as well.
16:21:17 <yatil> … I’ll make a minor wording edit. Any objections to accept it as proposed?
16:21:29 <yatil> RESOLUTION: Accepted as proposed
16:21:48 <yatil> TOPIC: LC-2951
16:21:55 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140306/2951
16:21:57 <AWK> (AWK will make minor grammar change in parenthetical comment)
16:22:00 <Joshue108> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/63/files?diff=split
16:22:07 <yatil> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:22:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-wai-wcag-minutes.html yatil
16:22:33 <yatil> rrsagent, make logs world
16:22:46 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
16:22:46 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:23:46 <yatil> AWK: A lot of comments, some good points coming up. Resulting suggestion was significant change.
16:24:38 <yatil> … Adding and removing things and focusing on emulated links.
16:25:33 <yatil> … Related changes in F59.
16:26:22 <Joshue108> q?
16:27:13 <yatil> Loretta: I had some comments on wording.
16:27:29 <yatil> … What would be the test procedure for this?
16:28:37 <yatil> AWK: Changed the test so that if the result of the test 1 or test 2 means you don’t meet certain success criteria.
16:28:56 <Joshue108> q?
16:28:58 <Joshue108> ack me
16:30:03 <yatil> [[
16:30:03 <yatil> Intro: For all elements with JavaScript event handlers which make the element emulate a link.
16:30:03 <yatil> a. Check if the prog determined role of the element is link
16:30:03 <yatil> b. Check if the emulated link can be activated using the keyboard
16:30:04 <yatil> if check a is false then fails 4.1.2
16:30:04 <yatil> if check b is false then fails 2.1.1/2.1.3
16:30:04 <yatil> ]]
16:31:01 <yatil> AWK: It was confusing that some things were true and some were false. Moving one check to the qualification to the intro.
16:31:22 <Loretta> not programmatically determinable or not keyboard accessible
16:32:12 <AWK> Failure of Success Criterion 1.3.1, 2.1.1, 2.1.3, and 4.1.2 due to emulating links in a way that is not programmatically determinable or not keyboard accessible
16:32:15 <Loretta> failure to emulate a link
16:32:45 <yatil> Loretta: That’s what we need to say, but it’s quite complicated.
16:32:54 <Sailesh> Sailesh has joined #wai-wcag
16:33:12 <AWK> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/63/files?diff=split
16:33:32 <Loretta> Failure of ... when emulating a link.
16:33:33 <yatil> AWK: We may need to rename F42.
16:33:48 <Zakim> + +1.703.825.aaaa
16:34:04 <yatil> Josh: Support the new wording.
16:34:45 <yatil> Loretta: Tossing up potentially shorter title: “when emulating a link” – I think we don’t need to go into the detail in the title.
16:35:20 <yatil> Josh: I like it, can we work with this.
16:35:42 <yatil> Michael: Sometimes we may be a little verbose in titles.
16:35:42 <AWK> new title: Failure of Success Criterion 1.3.1, 2.1.1, 2.1.3, and 4.1.2 when emulating links
16:36:04 <yatil> Loretta: We may have to change the and to an or in the title.
16:36:06 <AWK> new title: Failure of Success Criterion 1.3.1, 2.1.1, 2.1.3, or 4.1.2 when emulating links
16:36:16 <Joshue108> q?
16:36:29 <yatil> … makes sure that you fail even if you only fail one of those.
16:37:16 <yatil> AWK: Now when I see it, there is 1.3.1 in there but it’s not in the test, there is nothing in here that it needs to show as a link.
16:37:47 <Joshue108> +1 to  new title: Failure of Success Criterion 1.3.1, 2.1.1, 2.1.3, or 4.1.2 when emulating links
16:37:48 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
16:38:34 <Joshue108> q?
16:39:03 <yatil> … We could say in the test procedure that all elements with added event handlers should look like a link.
16:40:09 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
16:40:10 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:40:40 <yatil> … that should cover 1.3.1
16:41:13 <yatil> James: That makes sense.
16:41:50 <AWK> Changing title as above.
16:41:54 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
16:42:03 <yatil> AWK: If test a fails, it would fail 4.1.2 and 1.3.1.
16:42:06 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
16:42:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
16:42:09 <AWK> Changing the procedure per AWKs comments in the survey
16:42:42 <AWK> making intro to the procedure: "For all elements which are presented as links and with JavaScript event handlers which make the element emulate a link."
16:42:48 <Joshue108> q?
16:42:58 <AWK> first check in procedure fails 4.1.2 and 1.3.1
16:43:03 <yatil> s/Intro:/(Intro)/
16:43:14 <yatil> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:43:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-wai-wcag-minutes.html yatil
16:43:49 <yatil> Loretta: My comment with ARIA is addressed by the changed test procedure.
16:44:09 <yatil> AWK: Accepting as amended?
16:44:31 <yatil> RESOLUTION: Accepted as amended
16:45:05 <Joshue108> zakim, agenda?
16:45:05 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
16:45:06 <Zakim> 1. Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20141216/ [from Kenny]
16:45:06 <Zakim> 2. Publication schedule [from Kenny]
16:45:06 <Zakim> 3. upcoming meetings [from Kenny]
16:45:06 <Zakim> 4. QuickRef tasks [from AWK]
16:45:08 <yatil> [AWK dreams of the automated GitHub-based future]
16:45:22 <AWK> Zakim, take up next item
16:45:22 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Publication schedule" taken up [from Kenny]
16:46:33 <yatil> AWK: Pretty brief. In order to publish at CSUN, Michael, Josh, and I will create a version where we search for public comments.
16:46:41 <yatil> … Please look at the publication draft as soon as we come back in the new year.
16:47:16 <AWK> TOPIC: list changes
16:48:29 <yatil> AWK: We will send out a note shortly. Changes to the list. We want to use the list more to approve changes. If we talk about things in the meeting, we may run a call for consensus in the list.
16:49:33 <yatil> … We want to encourage people to work in the working group.
16:49:46 <yatil> zakim, take up next
16:49:46 <Zakim> agendum 3. "upcoming meetings" taken up [from Kenny]
16:50:10 <yatil> No meetings next week, and the week after that. Next meeting January 6th.
16:50:20 <yatil> James: Is meeting time staying the same?
16:50:37 <Joshue108> q?
16:50:37 <yatil> AWK: We haven’t resolved this yet.
16:50:45 <yatil> s/No/AWK: No/
16:51:03 <yatil> … Still on the table.
16:51:11 <Zakim> -Marc_Johlic
16:51:44 <yatil> TOPIC: Tutorial Review Signup
16:51:48 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20141216/results#xq6
16:51:52 <AWK> Review of tutorials: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/DecTutorialReview/
16:52:15 <Zakim> +Marc_Johlic
16:52:33 <yatil> AWK: People were able to sign up for the tutorials, if you do the review, you can use the other form to add your comments. Should be pretty straight forward.
16:52:39 <AWK> Reviews in before January 13 please
16:52:59 <yatil> ack me
16:53:02 <AWK> Zakim, take up item 4
16:53:02 <Zakim> agendum 4. "QuickRef tasks" taken up [from AWK]
16:53:17 <yatil> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Resource_Redesign/Quickref/Analysis#Tasks
16:53:35 <Joshue108> EE: I've had a look at the tasks in the QR redesign
16:53:54 <Joshue108> EE: I've grouped them into primary, secondary and out of scope tasks etc
16:54:02 <Joshue108> EE: Please have a look, give us feedback and comment
16:54:31 <Joshue108> EE: If there isn't much feedback at the beginning of the year, I will take what is there and start prototyping.
16:55:01 <yatil> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Resource_Redesign/Quickref/Analysis#Current_Version
16:55:02 <Joshue108> AWK: Is it task number 1, being the only thing the QR does?
16:55:02 <Zakim> -adam_solomon
16:55:26 <Joshue108> EE: Its basic tasks, such as filtering etc and task number 1.
16:55:39 <Joshue108> EE: It is the only resource where you can find those relationships
16:55:48 <Joshue108> EE: It's important we don't loose that functionality
16:56:09 <Joshue108> AWK: it seems like a lot of additional tasks, we want it to be manageable for you.
16:56:25 <Joshue108> AWK: So the group should look thru these tasks, and provide feedback?
16:56:29 <Joshue108> EE: Yes
16:56:56 <Joshue108> EE: We can come review this list in time, and compare progress with the prototype etc
16:57:02 <AWK> AWK: check if agree with the tasks identified and the priority assigned to each
16:57:04 <Joshue108> q?
16:57:19 <Joshue108> ack me
16:58:07 <Joshue108> LGR: Its a reasonable sorting, prioritising
16:58:14 <Joshue108> AWK: Everyone please have a look
16:58:26 <Joshue108> JOC: We can give this to the list after the tidyup
16:58:35 <Joshue108> EE: Please look asap
16:58:39 <Joshue108> AWK: Anything else?
16:58:40 <AWK> zakim, agenda?
16:58:40 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
16:58:41 <Zakim> 3. upcoming meetings [from Kenny]
16:58:41 <Zakim> 4. QuickRef tasks [from AWK]
16:58:42 <Joshue108> EE: Nope
16:58:45 <yatil> zakim, mute me
16:58:45 <Zakim> EricE should now be muted
16:58:51 <AWK> zakim, close item 3
16:58:51 <Zakim> agendum 3, upcoming meetings, closed
16:58:53 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
16:58:53 <Zakim> 4. QuickRef tasks [from AWK]
16:59:01 <AWK> Zakim, close item 4
16:59:01 <Zakim> agendum 4, QuickRef tasks, closed
16:59:02 <Zakim> I see nothing remaining on the agenda
16:59:33 <Joshue108> ack me
17:00:13 <Zakim> - +1.703.825.aaaa
17:00:26 <Zakim> -Katie_Haritos-Shea
17:00:27 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
17:00:29 <Zakim> -Loretta
17:00:30 <Zakim> -Marc_Johlic
17:00:36 <Kenny> zakim, drop me
17:00:36 <Zakim> Kenny is being disconnected
17:00:37 <Zakim> -Kenny
17:00:43 <AWK> Zakim, aaaa is Sailesh
17:00:43 <Zakim> sorry, AWK, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
17:00:50 <Zakim> -EricE
17:00:57 <AWK> trackbot, end meeting
17:00:57 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:00:57 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Joshue, EricE, Michael_Cooper, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Kenny, Marc_Johlic, Loretta, adam_solomon, +1.703.825.aaaa,
17:01:01 <Zakim> ... James_Nurthen
17:01:05 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:01:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-wai-wcag-minutes.html trackbot
17:01:06 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:01:06 <RRSAgent> I see no action items