14:15:02 RRSAgent has joined #touchevents 14:15:02 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-irc 14:15:51 zakim, list 14:15:51 I see INK_Team()9:00AM, Team_(RevCadence)9:00AM, IA_Team()9:00AM active 14:15:53 also scheduled at this time is WEBT_TVAPICG()9:00AM 14:16:41 ArtB has joined #touchevents 14:20:31 Zakim, this will be RWC_PEWG 14:20:31 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, rbyers 14:21:34 rbyers, my you're early ;) 14:21:50 artb: hah, just trying to be prepared 14:22:02 :-) 14:27:57 artb: You'll be on the call today, right? 14:28:52 If so, would you mind being scribe? I'm terrible at multi-tasking. 14:29:53 I'll have a couple other Chrome folks from my team join us today, but they're new to W3C meetings so don't want to ask them to scribe our very first call ;-) 14:31:43 rbyers, I'm double booked ATM but will try to reschedule 14:32:11 FYI, I don't think the mins need to be too detailed 14:32:25 ArtB: Ok, no worries if you can't make it - I'm sure I can talk someone else who's done it before into scribing 14:32:44 perhaps Doug can help 14:32:54 it can also be "shared" responsibility 14:33:59 yep, thanks 15:11:00 patrick_h_lauke has joined #touchevents 15:11:25 ...next time i should actually read the agenda ;) 15:12:07 yeah, that got me too :) 15:12:14 old habits die hard 15:20:13 smaug has joined #touchevents 15:59:28 scottgonzalez has joined #touchevents 16:01:10 tdresser has joined #touchevents 16:01:33 jrossi2 has joined #touchevents 16:01:35 i'm in the call...is it not showing here as IP caller etc? 16:01:42 Zakim, list 16:01:42 I see WAI_UAWG(CHAIRS)10:30AM, WAI_WCAG()11:00AM, HTML_WG()11:00AM, AB_(PROCESS)10:00AM, SW_HCLS()11:00AM, RWC_PEWG()11:00AM, INK_Team()9:00AM, IA_Team()9:00AM, XML_ET-TF()11:00AM 16:01:45 ... active 16:01:45 also scheduled at this time are RWC_WebEven()11:00AM, DPUB_DIGC()10:00AM, VB_VBWG()10:00AM, XML_EXI()10:00AM 16:01:48 Zakim, this is RWC_PEWG 16:01:48 ok, rbyers; that matches RWC_PEWG()11:00AM 16:01:57 Zakim, that's actually a lie, but you're too dumb to care 16:01:57 I don't understand you, rbyers 16:02:10 Zakim, who is there? 16:02:11 I don't understand your question, rbyers. 16:02:24 Zakim, who is on the call? 16:02:24 On the phone I see Scott_Gonzalez, +44.797.663.aaaa, [Microsoft], rbyers 16:02:26 abarsto has joined #touchevents 16:02:32 Zakim, Microsoft is jrossi 16:02:35 +jrossi; got it 16:02:41 zakim, aaaa is patrick_h_lauke 16:02:41 +patrick_h_lauke; got it 16:03:20 having mic probs...just a sec 16:03:52 +Art_Barstow 16:04:13 zakim, who's here? 16:04:13 On the phone I see Scott_Gonzalez, patrick_h_lauke, jrossi, rbyers, Art_Barstow 16:04:15 On IRC I see ArtB, jrossi, tdresser, scottgonzalez, smaug, patrick_h_lauke, RRSAgent, Zakim, rbyers 16:04:25 shepazu has joined #touchevents 16:04:45 + +1.571.426.aabb 16:05:55 I guess I could 16:06:12 wfm2 16:06:52 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-touchevents/2014Dec/0020.html 16:06:52 +[IPcaller] 16:06:57 hello 16:07:16 Zakim, [IPcaller] is Olli_Pettay 16:07:16 +Olli_Pettay; got it 16:07:28 Tim and Mustaq 16:07:32 Zakim, nick smaug is Olli_Pettay 16:07:32 ok, smaug, I now associate you with Olli_Pettay 16:07:43 agenda looks good to me 16:07:53 is it just me, or is the audio quality really bad? 16:07:59 topic: Using GitHub 16:08:10 yes it's bad for me 16:08:19 -rbyers 16:08:27 [hold music] 16:08:31 :) 16:08:49 +rbyers 16:09:27 Topic: Using GitHub for the spec 16:09:36 no objection from me to using github 16:09:44 mustaq has joined #touchevents 16:09:45 rbyers: any objections to using GH? 16:09:50 jrossi: +1 from me 16:10:09 rbyers: should we use smoon's repo or wait for w3c? 16:10:13 ACTION: barstow make sure w3c staff creates github/w3c/touch-events repo 16:11:14 Discussion on how to transfer GitHub from Sangwhan to W3C org 16:11:36 Scott: Search for "transfer repo to github organization" 16:11:38 +Doug_Schepers 16:12:34 https://help.github.com/articles/transferring-a-repository/#transferring-from-a-user-to-an-organization 16:13:08 jrossi: looks like I can't create repos 16:13:31 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-touchevents/2014Dec/0023.html 16:14:13 http://www.w3.org/TR/touch-events/ 16:15:23 shepazu: I can create this repo 16:15:28 shepazu: done 16:15:31 https://github.com/w3c/touch-events 16:15:34 Mike5 has joined #touchevents 16:15:44 We have a github repo: https://github.com/w3c/touch-events 16:15:46 Mike5, I done did it! 16:15:47 Thanks Doug 16:16:12 This is the current errata link: https://github.com/w3c/touch-events 16:16:15 damn 16:16:21 This is the current errata link: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/raw-file/v1-errata/touchevents.html 16:16:45 Do we care about these becoming stale? 16:16:45 rbyers: do we care about that getting stale? 16:16:54 jrossi: do we know what's been done in the past? 16:17:09 smaug: I think the editor's draft needs to be changed 16:17:13 yeah think repointing "Latest editor's draft:" to github 16:18:13 jrossi: I don't think people have the v1-errata, but maybe add a banner to point people to github 16:18:42 jrossi: do we add a link to REC? 16:18:52 do we also need something to point to github from https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/ ? 16:18:58 s/to/from 16:19:09 I'll defer to Doug 16:19:16 but we can get PLH on the call? 16:19:22 rbyers: I think we add it once there's some more stable errata with some consensus 16:19:51 shepazu: should we publish on specs.webplatform.org? 16:20:02 jrossi: I think those are github repos, so could be done as additional step? 16:20:11 Current errata link from REC spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/REC-touch-events-20131010/REC-touch-events-20131010-errata.html 16:20:14 [back on question about link from REC to errata] 16:20:34 rbyers: I think it's ok to punt on this, add it once we have more changes and care 16:20:36 jrossi: I agree 16:21:21 shepazu: I agree. once published we try not to mess with it, but the errata is meant to be updated. i'll proceed from a policy perspective internally to confirm right mechanism to do that. 16:21:51 action: shepazu to investigate policy on updating REC with link to errata and bug tracker 16:22:04 shepazu: do we want specs.webplatform.org? 16:22:07 jrossi: sure 16:22:10 rbyers: sure 16:22:12 +1 16:22:28 -> http://www.w3.org/TR/touch-events-extensions/ TE Extensions Note 16:23:10 radius stuff is a functional change, so not an errata 16:23:29 s/functional/substantial 16:23:57 rbyers: I think we should focus on errata stuff and not feature stuff for now 16:24:00 jrossi: agree 16:24:29 patrick_h_lauke: right, can't change the REC to change the conforming status of existing implementations 16:25:26 rbyers: [gives example of changing spec normatively but to match implementations] 16:25:36 topic: what should we do for bug tracker? 16:25:46 rbyers: I think smaug suggested W3C bugzilla 16:26:00 smaug: are there reasons for this other than GitHub issues? 16:26:26 s/smaug/rbyers 16:26:34 smaug: where do we get notifications of new stuff? 16:26:42 rbyers: you can star it 16:26:49 rbyers: may not be mailing list integration 16:27:08 smaug: we could create an account to have it get notified 16:28:01 jrossi: you'll lose rssbot/tracker support if we use GH issues, but I don't have a preference. 16:28:03 jrossi: if we do use W3C bugzilla then disable issues on github so we don't have fragmented bugs 16:28:23 shepazu: more people have github accounts, so I'd prefer that 16:28:43 shepazu: there's a script dom wrote that can send notifications to the list 16:29:02 shepazu: not yet integration with irc, but there may be bots out there 16:29:47 asir: you can create a github system account that tracks and sends to a list 16:29:47 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps-github/ WebAps' github list 16:30:00 s/WebAps/WebApps/ 16:30:25 scottgonzalez: if we're only talking about 1-way communication, there's existing support. If you want to create an issue from IRC/etc, then you need something special. 16:30:39 shepazu: I think such bots exist, but nobody has used at W3C 16:30:51 rbyers: sounds like their consensus, smaug what do you think? 16:30:58 smaug: I think I can live with that 16:31:36 Resolution: move the spec to GitHub and use GH issues for bugs 16:31:46 shepazu: can we get consensus for jrossi is awesome? 16:31:50 wg: yes! :-p 16:32:36 rbyers: do we need tracker? 16:32:56 jrossi: I like tracker for action tracking 16:33:03 rbyers: think we need some formal thing to get it set up 16:33:08 shepazu: I can look into that 16:33:20 Topic: Any issues / discussion for the errata edits made to date? 16:33:35 Update co-ordinate types from long to double: https://github.com/cynthia/touch-events/commit/5afd36fafcb998227c2fff30f9fedfee2cf654cc 16:34:00 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_ufW8xbb0hNzPlvuuxrpeQ6bkHxQ_MfDic7jxnwTr4A/edit 16:34:04 rbyers: haven't had a single bug with using fractional components on TE coords 16:34:08 scratch that 16:34:16 Update touchmove behavior on preventDefault: https://github.com/cynthia/touch-events/commit/41fdc4879563477bf3ff69463611fa8865f847ec, https://github.com/cynthia/touch-events/commit/35ee14ed53705f66497743692c38853abd244f0b 16:34:19 rbyers: [blink] hasn't had a single bug, that is 16:36:06 jrossi: I think the change is good, though may need to note a specific coordinate delta between touchstart and first touchmove as we've seen for compat/interop on the web today 16:36:45 rbyers: really no good way in safari to gaurantee 16:36:57 jrossi: maybe there's just a minimum 16:37:03 Related bug filed against Safari: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=138151 16:37:16 rbyers: I tried to determine that, but it seems it's not always a gaurantee 16:38:24 rbyers: could consider adding a note to say "most implementations will see a movement of ___" 16:38:39 rbyer: going to be fuzzy, because it's hard to be precise 16:38:49 rbyers: on Chrome for Android, the value comes from the OS 16:39:27 Clarify effect of cancelling touchend event: https://github.com/cynthia/touch-events/commit/4fd174ab1694fc96dc3fc6a43bad40c70b4594fd 16:39:29 rbyers: we should consider this a separate issue, and if we can't solve it then consider a new API for reliably doing this 16:40:03 [last rbyers scribe comment was about previous touchmove issue] 16:40:42 rbyers: the touchend edit clarifies pD() on touchend supresses mouse events 16:40:52 rbyers: android browser didn't do this, but that's a bug and it's been fixed 16:41:42 rbyers: patrick, how would you summarize your changes? 16:41:54 patrick_h_lauke: these are clarifications that don't change behavior 16:42:23 rbyers: took a lot of learnings from PE and tried to harmonize them in TE 16:42:41 patrick_h_lauke: like adding example sequences to the spec 16:42:54 patrick_h_lauke: using terminology like "compatibility mouse events" 16:43:07 patrick_h_lauke: other stylistic things 16:43:30 rbyers: I suggest patrick puts up PRs for each of the suggested changes 16:43:36 patrick_h_lauke: yes, I can do that 16:43:53 action: patrick_h_lauke to submit PRs for suggested changes once repo is set up 16:44:10 rbyers: that's all I had on errata edits for now 16:44:32 rbyers: anything else? 16:45:01 patrick_h_lauke: I think we're waiting on PFWG to provide their document on device mapping 16:45:19 patrick_h_lauke: would be good to get a better understanding of what they want to talk about 16:46:28 rbyers: should we discuss "Identifying mouse events derived from touch" now? 16:46:40 jrossi: I think we can have more list discussion first 16:46:42 the idea of indicating a derived event should be an extension type thing / new API 16:46:50 rbyers: and some of the proposals might go into DOM/UI Events 16:46:59 but in principle i agree having ... some kind of flag in the event 16:47:15 action: jrossi to share proposal on this topic 16:47:34 yes agree! 16:47:41 thanks Rick 16:47:46 rbyers: excited to have this call, even if we don't add features, cleaning this up is valuable 16:47:51 q+ 16:47:53 patrick_h_lauke: I agree, this will really help 16:48:26 jrossi: agree, we've had a tough time getting interop in IE here and clarifications will go a long way for us and future implementors 16:48:27 http://www.w3.org/community/touchevents/ 16:48:42 https://github.com/w3c/touch-events 16:50:00 http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/REC-touch-events-20131010/REC-touch-events-20131010-errata.html 16:50:33 shepazu: i would add a link to the community group and the github repo to the above errata page 16:50:34 shepazu: will update REC errata page to point to CG, GitHub spec, etc 16:50:43 SGTM 16:50:46 jrossi: SGTM 16:50:58 Mike5 has left #touchevents 16:52:05 -Art_Barstow 16:52:07 -patrick_h_lauke 16:52:08 -Olli_Pettay 16:52:09 -rbyers 16:52:11 -Doug_Schepers 16:52:14 -Scott_Gonzalez 16:52:36 patrick_h_lauke has left #touchevents 16:52:42 RRSAgent, create minutes 16:52:42 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-minutes.html jrossi 16:54:10 mbrubeck has joined #touchevents 16:54:12 -jrossi 16:56:10 mbrubeck, we assigned you all the actions 16:56:15 \o/ 16:57:05 mbrubeck No worries, just ramping up on administratvia mostly today, should get more interesting in the new year :-) 17:03:59 mbrubeck: I've been setting up calendar and email for few hours now 17:04:13 but seems to work now, sort of 17:08:01 http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/REC-touch-events-20131010/REC-touch-events-20131010-errata.html 17:35:01 disconnecting the lone participant, +1.571.426.aabb, in RWC_PEWG()11:00AM 17:35:03 RWC_PEWG()11:00AM has ended 17:35:03 Attendees were Scott_Gonzalez, +44.797.663.aaaa, rbyers, jrossi, patrick_h_lauke, Art_Barstow, +1.571.426.aabb, Olli_Pettay, Doug_Schepers 18:09:00 RRSAgent, make log public 18:09:06 RRSAgent, make minutes 18:09:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-minutes.html ArtB 18:09:29 scribenick: ArtB 18:09:42 Meeting: Touch Events CG Call 18:09:46 Chair: Rick 18:10:47 Present: Rick, Jacob, Tim, Mustaq, Scott, Olli, Art, Doug, Asir, Patrick 18:10:52 RRSAgent, make minutes 18:10:52 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-minutes.html ArtB 18:11:31 Scribe: Jacob 18:11:36 RRSAgent, make minutes 18:11:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-minutes.html ArtB 18:58:00 zakim, bye 18:58:00 Zakim has left #touchevents 18:58:05 rrsagent, bye 18:58:05 I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-actions.rdf : 18:58:05 ACTION: barstow make sure w3c staff creates github/w3c/touch-events repo [1] 18:58:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-irc#T16-10-13 18:58:05 ACTION: shepazu to investigate policy on updating REC with link to errata and bug tracker [2] 18:58:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-irc#T16-21-51 18:58:05 ACTION: patrick_h_lauke to submit PRs for suggested changes once repo is set up [3] 18:58:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-irc#T16-43-53 18:58:05 ACTION: jrossi to share proposal on this topic [4] 18:58:05 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-irc#T16-47-15