IRC log of touchevents on 2014-12-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:15:02 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #touchevents
14:15:02 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:15:51 [rbyers]
zakim, list
14:15:51 [Zakim]
I see INK_Team()9:00AM, Team_(RevCadence)9:00AM, IA_Team()9:00AM active
14:15:53 [Zakim]
also scheduled at this time is WEBT_TVAPICG()9:00AM
14:16:41 [ArtB]
ArtB has joined #touchevents
14:20:31 [rbyers]
Zakim, this will be RWC_PEWG
14:20:31 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, rbyers
14:21:34 [ArtB]
rbyers, my you're early ;)
14:21:50 [rbyers]
artb: hah, just trying to be prepared
14:22:02 [ArtB]
14:27:57 [rbyers]
artb: You'll be on the call today, right?
14:28:52 [rbyers]
If so, would you mind being scribe? I'm terrible at multi-tasking.
14:29:53 [rbyers]
I'll have a couple other Chrome folks from my team join us today, but they're new to W3C meetings so don't want to ask them to scribe our very first call ;-)
14:31:43 [ArtB]
rbyers, I'm double booked ATM but will try to reschedule
14:32:11 [ArtB]
FYI, I don't think the mins need to be too detailed
14:32:25 [rbyers]
ArtB: Ok, no worries if you can't make it - I'm sure I can talk someone else who's done it before into scribing
14:32:44 [ArtB]
perhaps Doug can help
14:32:54 [ArtB]
it can also be "shared" responsibility
14:33:59 [rbyers]
yep, thanks
15:11:00 [patrick_h_lauke]
patrick_h_lauke has joined #touchevents
15:11:25 [patrick_h_lauke] time i should actually read the agenda ;)
15:12:07 [ArtB]
yeah, that got me too :)
15:12:14 [patrick_h_lauke]
old habits die hard
15:20:13 [smaug]
smaug has joined #touchevents
15:59:28 [scottgonzalez]
scottgonzalez has joined #touchevents
16:01:10 [tdresser]
tdresser has joined #touchevents
16:01:33 [jrossi2]
jrossi2 has joined #touchevents
16:01:35 [patrick_h_lauke]
i'm in the it not showing here as IP caller etc?
16:01:42 [rbyers]
Zakim, list
16:01:42 [Zakim]
I see WAI_UAWG(CHAIRS)10:30AM, WAI_WCAG()11:00AM, HTML_WG()11:00AM, AB_(PROCESS)10:00AM, SW_HCLS()11:00AM, RWC_PEWG()11:00AM, INK_Team()9:00AM, IA_Team()9:00AM, XML_ET-TF()11:00AM
16:01:45 [Zakim]
... active
16:01:45 [Zakim]
also scheduled at this time are RWC_WebEven()11:00AM, DPUB_DIGC()10:00AM, VB_VBWG()10:00AM, XML_EXI()10:00AM
16:01:48 [rbyers]
Zakim, this is RWC_PEWG
16:01:48 [Zakim]
ok, rbyers; that matches RWC_PEWG()11:00AM
16:01:57 [rbyers]
Zakim, that's actually a lie, but you're too dumb to care
16:01:57 [Zakim]
I don't understand you, rbyers
16:02:10 [rbyers]
Zakim, who is there?
16:02:11 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, rbyers.
16:02:24 [jrossi]
Zakim, who is on the call?
16:02:24 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Scott_Gonzalez, +44.797.663.aaaa, [Microsoft], rbyers
16:02:26 [abarsto]
abarsto has joined #touchevents
16:02:32 [jrossi]
Zakim, Microsoft is jrossi
16:02:35 [Zakim]
+jrossi; got it
16:02:41 [patrick_h_lauke]
zakim, aaaa is patrick_h_lauke
16:02:41 [Zakim]
+patrick_h_lauke; got it
16:03:20 [jrossi]
having mic probs...just a sec
16:03:52 [Zakim]
16:04:13 [ArtB]
zakim, who's here?
16:04:13 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Scott_Gonzalez, patrick_h_lauke, jrossi, rbyers, Art_Barstow
16:04:15 [Zakim]
On IRC I see ArtB, jrossi, tdresser, scottgonzalez, smaug, patrick_h_lauke, RRSAgent, Zakim, rbyers
16:04:25 [shepazu]
shepazu has joined #touchevents
16:04:45 [Zakim]
+ +1.571.426.aabb
16:05:55 [smaug]
I guess I could
16:06:12 [ArtB]
16:06:52 [rbyers]
16:06:52 [Zakim]
16:06:57 [smaug]
16:07:16 [smaug]
Zakim, [IPcaller] is Olli_Pettay
16:07:16 [Zakim]
+Olli_Pettay; got it
16:07:28 [rbyers]
Tim and Mustaq
16:07:32 [smaug]
Zakim, nick smaug is Olli_Pettay
16:07:32 [Zakim]
ok, smaug, I now associate you with Olli_Pettay
16:07:43 [patrick_h_lauke]
agenda looks good to me
16:07:53 [smaug]
is it just me, or is the audio quality really bad?
16:07:59 [jrossi]
topic: Using GitHub
16:08:10 [jrossi]
yes it's bad for me
16:08:19 [Zakim]
16:08:27 [jrossi]
[hold music]
16:08:31 [patrick_h_lauke]
16:08:49 [Zakim]
16:09:27 [jrossi]
Topic: Using GitHub for the spec
16:09:36 [patrick_h_lauke]
no objection from me to using github
16:09:44 [mustaq]
mustaq has joined #touchevents
16:09:45 [jrossi]
rbyers: any objections to using GH?
16:09:50 [jrossi]
jrossi: +1 from me
16:10:09 [jrossi]
rbyers: should we use smoon's repo or wait for w3c?
16:10:13 [ArtB]
ACTION: barstow make sure w3c staff creates github/w3c/touch-events repo
16:11:14 [rbyers]
Discussion on how to transfer GitHub from Sangwhan to W3C org
16:11:36 [rbyers]
Scott: Search for "transfer repo to github organization"
16:11:38 [Zakim]
16:12:34 [scottgonzalez]
16:13:08 [jrossi]
jrossi: looks like I can't create repos
16:13:31 [jrossi]
16:14:13 [ArtB]
16:15:23 [jrossi]
shepazu: I can create this repo
16:15:28 [jrossi]
shepazu: done
16:15:31 [shepazu]
16:15:34 [Mike5]
Mike5 has joined #touchevents
16:15:44 [rbyers]
We have a github repo:
16:15:46 [shepazu]
Mike5, I done did it!
16:15:47 [rbyers]
Thanks Doug
16:16:12 [rbyers]
This is the current errata link:
16:16:15 [rbyers]
16:16:21 [rbyers]
This is the current errata link:
16:16:45 [rbyers]
Do we care about these becoming stale?
16:16:45 [jrossi]
rbyers: do we care about that getting stale?
16:16:54 [jrossi]
jrossi: do we know what's been done in the past?
16:17:09 [jrossi]
smaug: I think the editor's draft needs to be changed
16:17:13 [patrick_h_lauke]
yeah think repointing "Latest editor's draft:" to github
16:18:13 [jrossi]
jrossi: I don't think people have the v1-errata, but maybe add a banner to point people to github
16:18:42 [jrossi]
jrossi: do we add a link to REC?
16:18:52 [patrick_h_lauke]
do we also need something to point to github from ?
16:18:58 [jrossi]
16:19:09 [ArtB]
I'll defer to Doug
16:19:16 [ArtB]
but we can get PLH on the call?
16:19:22 [jrossi]
rbyers: I think we add it once there's some more stable errata with some consensus
16:19:51 [jrossi]
shepazu: should we publish on
16:20:02 [jrossi]
jrossi: I think those are github repos, so could be done as additional step?
16:20:11 [rbyers]
Current errata link from REC spec:
16:20:14 [jrossi]
[back on question about link from REC to errata]
16:20:34 [jrossi]
rbyers: I think it's ok to punt on this, add it once we have more changes and care
16:20:36 [jrossi]
jrossi: I agree
16:21:21 [jrossi]
shepazu: I agree. once published we try not to mess with it, but the errata is meant to be updated. i'll proceed from a policy perspective internally to confirm right mechanism to do that.
16:21:51 [jrossi]
action: shepazu to investigate policy on updating REC with link to errata and bug tracker
16:22:04 [jrossi]
shepazu: do we want
16:22:07 [jrossi]
jrossi: sure
16:22:10 [jrossi]
rbyers: sure
16:22:12 [patrick_h_lauke]
16:22:28 [ArtB]
-> TE Extensions Note
16:23:10 [patrick_h_lauke]
radius stuff is a functional change, so not an errata
16:23:29 [patrick_h_lauke]
16:23:57 [jrossi]
rbyers: I think we should focus on errata stuff and not feature stuff for now
16:24:00 [jrossi]
jrossi: agree
16:24:29 [jrossi]
patrick_h_lauke: right, can't change the REC to change the conforming status of existing implementations
16:25:26 [jrossi]
rbyers: [gives example of changing spec normatively but to match implementations]
16:25:36 [jrossi]
topic: what should we do for bug tracker?
16:25:46 [jrossi]
rbyers: I think smaug suggested W3C bugzilla
16:26:00 [jrossi]
smaug: are there reasons for this other than GitHub issues?
16:26:26 [jrossi]
16:26:34 [jrossi]
smaug: where do we get notifications of new stuff?
16:26:42 [jrossi]
rbyers: you can star it
16:26:49 [jrossi]
rbyers: may not be mailing list integration
16:27:08 [jrossi]
smaug: we could create an account to have it get notified
16:28:01 [jrossi]
jrossi: you'll lose rssbot/tracker support if we use GH issues, but I don't have a preference.
16:28:03 [patrick_h_lauke]
jrossi: if we do use W3C bugzilla then disable issues on github so we don't have fragmented bugs
16:28:23 [jrossi]
shepazu: more people have github accounts, so I'd prefer that
16:28:43 [jrossi]
shepazu: there's a script dom wrote that can send notifications to the list
16:29:02 [jrossi]
shepazu: not yet integration with irc, but there may be bots out there
16:29:47 [jrossi]
asir: you can create a github system account that tracks and sends to a list
16:29:47 [ArtB]
-> WebAps' github list
16:30:00 [ArtB]
16:30:25 [jrossi]
scottgonzalez: if we're only talking about 1-way communication, there's existing support. If you want to create an issue from IRC/etc, then you need something special.
16:30:39 [jrossi]
shepazu: I think such bots exist, but nobody has used at W3C
16:30:51 [jrossi]
rbyers: sounds like their consensus, smaug what do you think?
16:30:58 [jrossi]
smaug: I think I can live with that
16:31:36 [jrossi]
Resolution: move the spec to GitHub and use GH issues for bugs
16:31:46 [jrossi]
shepazu: can we get consensus for jrossi is awesome?
16:31:50 [jrossi]
wg: yes! :-p
16:32:36 [jrossi]
rbyers: do we need tracker?
16:32:56 [jrossi]
jrossi: I like tracker for action tracking
16:33:03 [jrossi]
rbyers: think we need some formal thing to get it set up
16:33:08 [jrossi]
shepazu: I can look into that
16:33:20 [rbyers]
Topic: Any issues / discussion for the errata edits made to date?
16:33:35 [rbyers]
Update co-ordinate types from long to double:
16:34:00 [rbyers]
16:34:04 [jrossi]
rbyers: haven't had a single bug with using fractional components on TE coords
16:34:08 [rbyers]
scratch that
16:34:16 [rbyers]
Update touchmove behavior on preventDefault:,
16:34:19 [jrossi]
rbyers: [blink] hasn't had a single bug, that is
16:36:06 [jrossi]
jrossi: I think the change is good, though may need to note a specific coordinate delta between touchstart and first touchmove as we've seen for compat/interop on the web today
16:36:45 [jrossi]
rbyers: really no good way in safari to gaurantee
16:36:57 [jrossi]
jrossi: maybe there's just a minimum
16:37:03 [rbyers]
Related bug filed against Safari:
16:37:16 [jrossi]
rbyers: I tried to determine that, but it seems it's not always a gaurantee
16:38:24 [jrossi]
rbyers: could consider adding a note to say "most implementations will see a movement of ___"
16:38:39 [jrossi]
rbyer: going to be fuzzy, because it's hard to be precise
16:38:49 [jrossi]
rbyers: on Chrome for Android, the value comes from the OS
16:39:27 [rbyers]
Clarify effect of cancelling touchend event:
16:39:29 [jrossi]
rbyers: we should consider this a separate issue, and if we can't solve it then consider a new API for reliably doing this
16:40:03 [jrossi]
[last rbyers scribe comment was about previous touchmove issue]
16:40:42 [jrossi]
rbyers: the touchend edit clarifies pD() on touchend supresses mouse events
16:40:52 [jrossi]
rbyers: android browser didn't do this, but that's a bug and it's been fixed
16:41:42 [jrossi]
rbyers: patrick, how would you summarize your changes?
16:41:54 [jrossi]
patrick_h_lauke: these are clarifications that don't change behavior
16:42:23 [jrossi]
rbyers: took a lot of learnings from PE and tried to harmonize them in TE
16:42:41 [jrossi]
patrick_h_lauke: like adding example sequences to the spec
16:42:54 [jrossi]
patrick_h_lauke: using terminology like "compatibility mouse events"
16:43:07 [jrossi]
patrick_h_lauke: other stylistic things
16:43:30 [jrossi]
rbyers: I suggest patrick puts up PRs for each of the suggested changes
16:43:36 [jrossi]
patrick_h_lauke: yes, I can do that
16:43:53 [jrossi]
action: patrick_h_lauke to submit PRs for suggested changes once repo is set up
16:44:10 [jrossi]
rbyers: that's all I had on errata edits for now
16:44:32 [jrossi]
rbyers: anything else?
16:45:01 [jrossi]
patrick_h_lauke: I think we're waiting on PFWG to provide their document on device mapping
16:45:19 [jrossi]
patrick_h_lauke: would be good to get a better understanding of what they want to talk about
16:46:28 [jrossi]
rbyers: should we discuss "Identifying mouse events derived from touch" now?
16:46:40 [jrossi]
jrossi: I think we can have more list discussion first
16:46:42 [patrick_h_lauke]
the idea of indicating a derived event should be an extension type thing / new API
16:46:50 [jrossi]
rbyers: and some of the proposals might go into DOM/UI Events
16:46:59 [patrick_h_lauke]
but in principle i agree having ... some kind of flag in the event
16:47:15 [jrossi]
action: jrossi to share proposal on this topic
16:47:34 [ArtB]
yes agree!
16:47:41 [ArtB]
thanks Rick
16:47:46 [jrossi]
rbyers: excited to have this call, even if we don't add features, cleaning this up is valuable
16:47:51 [shepazu]
16:47:53 [jrossi]
patrick_h_lauke: I agree, this will really help
16:48:26 [jrossi]
jrossi: agree, we've had a tough time getting interop in IE here and clarifications will go a long way for us and future implementors
16:48:27 [shepazu]
16:48:42 [shepazu]
16:50:00 [shepazu]
16:50:33 [patrick_h_lauke]
shepazu: i would add a link to the community group and the github repo to the above errata page
16:50:34 [jrossi]
shepazu: will update REC errata page to point to CG, GitHub spec, etc
16:50:43 [patrick_h_lauke]
16:50:46 [jrossi]
jrossi: SGTM
16:50:58 [Mike5]
Mike5 has left #touchevents
16:52:05 [Zakim]
16:52:07 [Zakim]
16:52:08 [Zakim]
16:52:09 [Zakim]
16:52:11 [Zakim]
16:52:14 [Zakim]
16:52:36 [patrick_h_lauke]
patrick_h_lauke has left #touchevents
16:52:42 [jrossi]
RRSAgent, create minutes
16:52:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate jrossi
16:54:10 [mbrubeck]
mbrubeck has joined #touchevents
16:54:12 [Zakim]
16:56:10 [shepazu]
mbrubeck, we assigned you all the actions
16:56:15 [mbrubeck]
16:57:05 [rbyers]
mbrubeck No worries, just ramping up on administratvia mostly today, should get more interesting in the new year :-)
17:03:59 [smaug]
mbrubeck: I've been setting up calendar and email for few hours now
17:04:13 [smaug]
but seems to work now, sort of
17:08:01 [shepazu]
17:35:01 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, +1.571.426.aabb, in RWC_PEWG()11:00AM
17:35:03 [Zakim]
RWC_PEWG()11:00AM has ended
17:35:03 [Zakim]
Attendees were Scott_Gonzalez, +44.797.663.aaaa, rbyers, jrossi, patrick_h_lauke, Art_Barstow, +1.571.426.aabb, Olli_Pettay, Doug_Schepers
18:09:00 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, make log public
18:09:06 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, make minutes
18:09:06 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ArtB
18:09:29 [ArtB]
scribenick: ArtB
18:09:42 [ArtB]
Meeting: Touch Events CG Call
18:09:46 [ArtB]
Chair: Rick
18:10:47 [ArtB]
Present: Rick, Jacob, Tim, Mustaq, Scott, Olli, Art, Doug, Asir, Patrick
18:10:52 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, make minutes
18:10:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ArtB
18:11:31 [ArtB]
Scribe: Jacob
18:11:36 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, make minutes
18:11:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ArtB
18:58:00 [ArtB]
zakim, bye
18:58:00 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #touchevents
18:58:05 [ArtB]
rrsagent, bye
18:58:05 [RRSAgent]
I see 4 open action items saved in :
18:58:05 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: barstow make sure w3c staff creates github/w3c/touch-events repo [1]
18:58:05 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
18:58:05 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: shepazu to investigate policy on updating REC with link to errata and bug tracker [2]
18:58:05 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
18:58:05 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: patrick_h_lauke to submit PRs for suggested changes once repo is set up [3]
18:58:05 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
18:58:05 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jrossi to share proposal on this topic [4]
18:58:05 [RRSAgent]
recorded in