21:00:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y-media
21:00:43 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/12/08-html-a11y-media-irc
21:00:44 <JF> zakim, who's here?
21:00:44 <Zakim> sorry, JF, I don't know what conference this is
21:00:46 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, JF, ShaneM, MarkS, janina, trackbot
21:01:12 <ShaneM> zakim, help
21:01:12 <Zakim> Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help.
21:01:14 <Zakim> Some of the commands I know are:
21:01:14 <Zakim>  xxx is yyy       - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx
21:01:14 <Zakim>                     if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted
21:01:14 <Zakim>  xxx may be yyy   - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx
21:01:15 <Zakim>  I am xxx         - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx
21:01:15 <Zakim>  xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group
21:01:16 <Zakim>  xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx
21:01:16 <Zakim>  who's here?      - lists the participants on the phone
21:01:16 <Zakim>  who's muted?     - lists the participants who are muted
21:01:16 <Zakim>  mute xxx         - mutes party xxx (like pressing 61#)
21:01:16 <Zakim>  unmute xxx       - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61#
21:01:17 <Zakim>  is xxx here?     - reports whether a party named like xxx is present
21:01:17 <Zakim>  list conferences - reports the active conferences
21:01:18 <Zakim>  this is xxx      - associates this channel with conference xxx
21:01:18 <Zakim>  excuse us        - disconnects from the irc channel
21:01:18 <Zakim> I last learned something new on $Date: 2013-03-03 19:18:47 $
21:01:41 <ShaneM> zakim, please list conferences
21:01:41 <Zakim> I see WAI_HTML AT()4:00PM, Team_(html-a11y-media)21:10Z active
21:01:42 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are GA_FXTF()4:00PM, SEC_WebCryp()3:00PM
21:02:02 <ShaneM> zakim, this is Team_
21:02:02 <Zakim> ok, ShaneM; that matches Team_(html-a11y-media)21:10Z
21:02:44 <janina> Hi, trying to get on
21:03:05 <janina> Hmmm, I have no audio. Will try and try again ...
21:05:08 <ShaneM> zakim, who is here?
21:05:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see janina, MarkS, JF
21:05:10 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, JF, ShaneM, MarkS, janina, trackbot
21:05:29 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
21:05:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see janina, MarkS, JF
21:06:49 <JF> zakim, who's on the phone?
21:06:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see janina, MarkS, JF
21:07:03 <janina> zakim, who's here?
21:07:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see janina, MarkS, JF
21:07:05 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, JF, ShaneM, MarkS, janina, trackbot
21:07:14 <ShaneM> zakim, I am here
21:07:15 <Zakim> sorry, ShaneM, I do not see a party named 'here'
21:07:40 <MarkS> zakim, WAI_HTML also has ShaneM
21:07:40 <Zakim> sorry, MarkS, I do not recognize a party named 'WAI_HTML'
21:07:42 <MarkS> zakim, who is here?
21:07:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see janina, MarkS, JF
21:07:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, JF, ShaneM, MarkS, janina, trackbot
21:07:50 <ShaneM> zakim, present+
21:07:50 <Zakim> I don't understand 'present+', ShaneM
21:07:52 <MarkS> zakim, a11y also has ShaneM
21:07:52 <Zakim> sorry, MarkS, I do not recognize a party named 'a11y'
21:07:58 <MarkS> zakim, 2119 also has ShaneM
21:07:58 <Zakim> sorry, MarkS, I do not recognize a party named '2119'
21:08:05 <janina> trackbot, start meeting
21:08:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
21:08:09 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
21:08:09 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_HTML AT()4:00PM scheduled to start 8 minutes ago
21:08:10 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
21:08:10 <trackbot> Date: 08 December 2014
21:08:16 <MarkS> present+ ShaneM
21:08:24 <janina> zakim, who's here?
21:08:24 <Zakim> I notice Team_(html-a11y-media)21:10Z has restarted
21:08:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see janina, MarkS, JF
21:08:26 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, JF, ShaneM, MarkS, janina, trackbot
21:08:56 <JF> agenda?
21:09:47 <MarkS> Chair+ Janina Sajka
21:09:47 <MarkS> agenda+ Identify Scribe
21:09:47 <MarkS> agenda+ Media Accessibility User Requirements: Remaining Comment Responses
21:09:47 <MarkS> agenda+ Responses to Commenters
21:09:47 <MarkS> agenda+ Checklist Updates
21:09:58 <MarkS> zakim, take up item 1
21:09:58 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Identify Scribe" taken up [from MarkS]
21:10:04 <MarkS> scribe: MarkS
21:10:40 <MarkS> agenda+ BBC Comments
21:10:40 <MarkS> agenda?
21:10:53 <MarkS> zakim, agenda order is 1,5,2,3,4
21:10:53 <Zakim> ok, MarkS
21:10:56 <MarkS> agenda?
21:10:57 <ShaneM> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014Dec/0020.html
21:11:03 <MarkS> zakim, close item 1
21:11:03 <Zakim> agendum 1, Identify Scribe, closed
21:11:04 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
21:11:04 <Zakim> 5. BBC Comments [from MarkS]
21:11:09 <MarkS> zakim, take up next item
21:11:09 <Zakim> agendum 5. "BBC Comments" taken up [from MarkS]
21:11:41 <MarkS> SM: these are great comments
21:12:03 <MarkS> ...3.6, comment about CC-10 about rendering background colors in full range of opacity
21:12:12 <MarkS> [reads]
21:12:59 <MarkS> ...enable background area to extend to a preset distance relative to the foreground text...
21:13:29 <MarkS> JF: Overall I agree.  sounds overly prescriptive about how much padding should be applied.  Don't think we should have a physical measurment
21:13:48 <MarkS> SM: I don't think he is saying that.  just that it should be expandable.
21:14:19 <MarkS> JF: who is responsible that the padding exists?  author, user agent?  both?
21:14:36 <MarkS> SM: i think it would be both
21:15:04 <MarkS> MS: depends on if the controls are rendered by the UA or the author
21:15:45 <MarkS> JS: developers are reminded that readability is enhanced when padding is provided... etc.
21:16:35 <MarkS> JF: this would be a should requirement, right
21:16:55 <MarkS> SM: not specified in the comment
21:17:01 <JF> SHOULD as in RFC 2119, and not a MUST
21:17:49 <MarkS> JF: lets wordsmith it offline.
21:17:58 <MarkS> SM: I'm happy to do that and add it at the end of the CC section
21:18:11 <MarkS> SM: CC-11, rendering text in a range of colors
21:18:35 <MarkS> [reads]
21:19:25 <MarkS> ...recommend that full color customization is available
21:19:36 <MarkS> ...I think we are kind of saying that already
21:19:41 <MarkS> JS: I like what he says
21:19:48 <MarkS> SM: I agree. its well written
21:19:59 <MarkS> JF: I believe that the requirement is already there.
21:20:08 <MarkS> ...this adds some justification
21:20:18 <MarkS> ...but doesn't change the requirement
21:20:40 <MarkS> JS: Maybe add to the explanatory tex.t  its very well written.  worth capturing
21:21:24 <MarkS> SM: JF thinks that there is already a requirement for this, but I don't think there is.  There is a note about this.
21:21:42 <MarkS> ...I would probably add this to that note
21:21:58 <MarkS> JS: do we want to elevate this?
21:22:03 <MarkS> ...get it out of the note
21:22:29 <MarkS> JF: We can take out "Note" then its just a continuation of the requirement
21:22:45 <MarkS> JS: I'm happy with that
21:22:49 <MarkS> JF: me too
21:23:01 <MarkS> ...WebVTT uses standard CSS, which aids this.
21:23:37 <MarkS> SM: CC-12 Thicker outline to allow for better contrast
21:23:56 <MarkS> [reads]
21:24:35 <MarkS> ...preferable to not use drop shadows
21:24:42 <MarkS> JS: so it should be user customizable...
21:24:55 <MarkS> SM: which is what I am assuming with use of the word enabled.
21:25:16 <MarkS> JS: Happy to accept this clarification
21:25:27 <MarkS> SM: should clarify that its enable able by user
21:25:39 <MarkS> [agreement]
21:26:26 <MarkS> SM: CC-13 preferable to keep the caption background when frequent captions, but should fade away when captions are infrequent
21:26:40 <MarkS> ...proposal, remove this requirement,
21:26:53 <MarkS> ...alt proposal, change it is preferable to it should be possible.
21:27:02 <MarkS> [agreement on proposal 2]
21:27:18 <MarkS> SM: I was surprised we had this as a MUST
21:27:42 <MarkS> ...CC-14 paint on with pop up captions
21:27:55 <MarkS> ...proposal to add a 2 notes to the section:
21:28:09 <MarkS> [reads]
21:28:56 <MarkS> JS: Makes sense to me now that its brought up
21:29:10 <MarkS> SM: final words are available for enough time that they can be read.
21:29:27 <MarkS> ...i don't want that to be a note.  should be a requirement....
21:29:43 <MarkS> [agreement]
21:29:59 <MarkS> ...take the first proposal and make it a note.  the 2nd should be included in the base requirement
21:30:40 <MarkS> ...this happens to me at the gym all the time due to commercials interrupting the captions
21:31:09 <MarkS> ....CC-15, lowest line of captions, 1/12 of the total height above the bottom
21:31:33 <MarkS> ...not global, as the measurement appears to be arbitrary. specificity should be removed.
21:32:16 <MarkS> JF: I tend to agree.  don't like to be overly prescriptive
21:32:42 <MarkS> SM: I think we should say "a reasonable gap e.g. 1/12th, etc."
21:32:42 <MarkS> [agreement]
21:32:49 <MarkS> JF: Its a hint/suggestion, not a requirement
21:34:21 <ShaneM> crap
21:34:25 <ShaneM> I was being briliant too
21:34:27 <janina> Zakim lost you!
21:34:43 <MarkS> is that how they spell it in England?
21:36:04 <MarkS> SM: the next comment is a proposal for new req.
21:36:16 <MarkS> ...my reaction is that this is covered by CC-9
21:36:33 <MarkS> JS: If we want to add any explanatory, just add it there re screen sizes and differences
21:36:43 <MarkS> JF: the end user should be able to adjust this.
21:37:12 <MarkS> JS: Happy to expand the one that is there.  don't think we need to add a new one
21:38:03 <MarkS> SM: often beneficial optimized for the technology used on device, e.g. on android, helvetica doesn't render well, so roboto font should be available
21:38:18 <MarkS> ...optimized for readability to use font that is preferred when they are available
21:38:51 <MarkS> JF: I think that comment goes back to the comment on styling.  To do this, you would load a different stylesheet based on media query.
21:38:59 <MarkS> ...author requirement not a user requirement,
21:39:13 <MarkS> SM: I don't see it that way. I want the platform to offer this
21:39:29 <MarkS> ...a preferred font, based on what it knows about itself
21:41:34 <MarkS> JS: I think we agree that this should happen and should be supported
21:41:51 <MarkS> SM: CC-11 says user has control.  isn't this already covered?
21:42:05 <MarkS> JS: We could expand 9 like we did with 11
21:42:49 <MarkS> SM: to agree with JF, it would be nice to advise authors to do this, not to leave it up to platform
21:43:06 <MarkS> s/platform/user
21:43:23 <MarkS> ...is it valuable for us to say that in the context of CC 11
21:43:28 <MarkS> ...or somewhere else?
21:43:37 <MarkS> JF: sounds like a production note to me
21:43:48 <MarkS> ...in WCAG we have SC requirements and techniques that allow
21:43:53 <MarkS> ....propose a technique
21:44:08 <MarkS> ...we don't really have techniques in there (yet)
21:44:46 <MarkS> SM: a  note that says while users have control... preferable that authors tune their content to target device as well using media queries, etc.
21:44:53 <MarkS> JS: I'm happy with that
21:45:14 <MarkS> JF: lets wordsmith this.  I think we're all on the same track here.  just needs to be worded carefully
21:45:22 <MarkS> SM: Can I run a draft by you JF?
21:45:23 <MarkS> JF: yes
21:46:41 <MarkS> SM: 4.7 use of the viewport
21:47:15 <MarkS> ...VP-5 lower third, where controls are usually rendered.  avoid conflicts, esp if controls available on command.
21:47:23 <MarkS> ...i thought that was really strict
21:47:41 <MarkS> JF: its saying we don't want controls to be obscured by captions or vice versa
21:47:51 <MarkS> SM: or you can imagine a situation where those things fight, because there is so much captioning
21:48:52 <MarkS> ...also important to avoid conflicts with other essential content
21:49:25 <MarkS> ...strongly disagree with the stacking requirement in the note
21:49:49 <MarkS> ...our note suggest stacking
21:50:04 <MarkS> ...comment is that the best place is likely at the top of the video, where it won't obscure
21:50:15 <MarkS> ...suggests edit to suggest this
21:50:51 <MarkS> JF: I say replace the existing note with that
21:51:28 <MarkS> SM: he means away from important parts of underlying video
21:51:40 <MarkS> JS: we should get clarification on that
21:52:11 <MarkS> SM: i lik the phrase "editorially important"
21:53:35 <MarkS> JF: I'm not opposed to this.  I think consistency is the important thing
21:55:12 <MarkS> ...just saying we want to avoid overlapping content
21:55:52 <MarkS> ...maybe some wordsmithing is required here, but this is pretty good start
21:59:43 <MarkS> http://transition.fcc.gov/cgb/dro/cvaa.html
22:00:18 <MarkS> rrsagent, make minutes
22:00:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/08-html-a11y-media-minutes.html MarkS
22:00:28 <MarkS> JS: I will be unavailable at this time next week
22:01:17 <MarkS> ...still have to review all this wordsmithing and then tweak the responses to commenters.  then we are done.
22:01:24 <MarkS> ...ok to meet without me?
22:04:30 <MarkS> SM: so we're adding a couple of requirements, these will need to trickle down to the checklist.  JF, can you do this>?
22:04:45 <MarkS> JF: I can do that, just let me know when you're done adding those
22:05:06 <MarkS> ...there is a must, should, may component that will need to be verified as well
22:05:50 <MarkS> rrsagent, make minutes
22:05:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/08-html-a11y-media-minutes.html MarkS
22:06:11 <MarkS> zakim, part
22:06:11 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were janina, +1.617.319.aaaa, MarkS, JF
22:06:11 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-a11y-media
22:06:21 <MarkS> rrsagent, make minutes
22:06:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/08-html-a11y-media-minutes.html MarkS