15:53:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
15:53:43 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/12/02-wai-wcag-irc
15:53:45 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:53:47 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
15:53:47 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
15:53:48 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
15:53:48 <trackbot> Date: 02 December 2014
15:54:30 <Kenny> Chair: Josh
15:54:44 <Kenny> zakim, clean agenda
15:54:44 <Zakim> I don't understand 'clean agenda', Kenny
15:54:48 <Kenny> zakim, clean agenda?
15:54:48 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, Kenny.
15:54:59 <Kenny> zakim, clear agenda
15:54:59 <Zakim> agenda cleared
15:55:56 <Kenny> agenda+ add input on the Quickref update https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Resource_Redesign/Quickref/Analysis
15:56:17 <Joshue> Joshue has joined #wai-wcag
15:56:31 <Joshue> zakim, agenda?
15:56:31 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
15:56:32 <Zakim> 1. add input on the Quickref update https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Resource_Redesign/Quickref/Analysis [from Kenny]
15:56:58 <Kenny> agenda+ survey review
15:57:22 <Kenny> hi, Joshue, item added, and kick start trackbot
15:57:48 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has now started
15:57:55 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:57:58 <Joshue> zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
15:57:58 <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
15:58:08 <Joshue> Chair: AWK
15:58:12 <Joshue> Scribe list:https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
15:58:20 <yatil> zakim, call EricE-Skype
15:58:20 <Zakim> ok, yatil; the call is being made
15:58:21 <Zakim> +EricE
15:58:37 <Zakim> + +1.617.766.aaaa
15:58:44 <Zakim> +??P5
15:58:45 <Zakim> - +1.617.766.aaaa
15:58:49 <yatil> zakim, nick yatil is EricE
15:58:49 <Zakim> ok, yatil, I now associate you with EricE
15:59:02 <Zakim> + +1.617.766.aabb
15:59:17 <yatil> Zakim, aabb is AWK
15:59:17 <Zakim> +AWK; got it
15:59:44 <yatil> zakim, mute me
15:59:45 <Zakim> EricE should now be muted
15:59:55 <AWK> Zakim, agenda?
15:59:56 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
15:59:57 <Zakim> 1. add input on the Quickref update https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Resource_Redesign/Quickref/Analysis [from Kenny]
15:59:57 <Zakim> 2. survey review [from Kenny]
16:00:52 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2014OctDec/0135.html
16:01:44 <Zakim> +Kenny
16:01:52 <Zakim> +Marc_Johlic
16:01:59 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
16:02:06 <Mike_Elledge> Mike_Elledge has joined #wai-wcag
16:02:28 <Zakim> +Katie_Haritos-Shea
16:02:43 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
16:02:43 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:02:54 <Zakim> + +1.313.390.aacc
16:03:34 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:03:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see Joshue (muted), EricE (muted), Michael_Cooper, AWK, Kenny, Marc_Johlic, Katie_Haritos-Shea, +1.313.390.aacc
16:03:54 <AWK> Zakim, aacc is Mike_Elledge
16:03:55 <Zakim> +Mike_Elledge; got it
16:04:08 <Ryladog_> Ryladog_ has joined #wai-wcag
16:05:07 <Ryladog_> Scribe: Katie Haritos-Shea
16:05:08 <AWK> Scribe: Katie
16:05:16 <Ryladog_> ScribeNick: Ryladog
16:05:24 <Ryladog_> Meeting: WCAG Working Group Teleconference
16:05:31 <Ryladog_> Chair: Andrew Kirkpatrick
16:05:47 <Ryladog_> rrsagent, pointer?
16:05:47 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2014/12/02-wai-wcag-irc#T16-05-47
16:06:01 <Ryladog_> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
16:06:05 <Kathy> Kathy has joined #wai-wcag
16:06:18 <Ryladog_> TOPIC: US Section 508 Access Board
16:06:38 <Loretta> Loretta has joined #WAI-WCAG
16:07:00 <AWK> Update: "We are still in dialog with OMB on the regulatory impact analysis"
16:07:04 <Zakim> +Kathy_Wahlbin
16:07:05 <Ryladog_> AWK: Update from the Access Board is that there is still work to do
16:07:39 <Ryladog_> AWK: No obstructions just more due diligence
16:08:03 <MoeKraft> MoeKraft has joined #wai-wcag
16:08:25 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:08:35 <Loretta> zakim, IPcaller is Loretta
16:08:35 <Zakim> +Loretta; got it
16:08:50 <Ryladog_> AWK: Settlement from DOJ in March 2015 - they are asking PeaPod to address Accessibility on their website and that WCAG is the way for Peapod to do that
16:09:07 <AWK> Zakim, take up item 1
16:09:07 <Zakim> agendum 1. "add input on the Quickref update https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Resource_Redesign/Quickref/Analysis" taken up [from Kenny]
16:09:18 <yatil> ack me
16:09:26 <Ryladog_> zakin, next item
16:09:33 <Joshue> ack me
16:09:39 <Ryladog_> zakim, next item
16:09:39 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, Ryladog_
16:10:12 <Zakim> + +1.978.899.aadd
16:10:28 <Ryladog_> JO: Erik did a tidy up
16:10:56 <Ryladog_> EE: I have put the use cases into tasks
16:10:59 <AWK> Zakim, aadd is Kathy
16:10:59 <Zakim> +Kathy; got it
16:11:25 <yatil> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Resource_Redesign/Quickref/Analysis#Tasks
16:11:26 <Ryladog_> EE: also added some functionality
16:12:03 <Ryladog_> AWK: Does anyone want to add comments to this document
16:12:10 <Mike_Elledge> q+
16:12:10 <MoeKraft> Zakim, aadd is MoeKraft
16:12:11 <Ryladog_> JO: On maybe Thusday yes
16:12:12 <Zakim> sorry, MoeKraft, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd'
16:12:25 <Ryladog_> JO: There are sections you want us to look at
16:12:42 <AWK> Zakim, 978.899.aadd is MoeKraft
16:12:43 <Ryladog_> EE: Yes, we want filks to look at the tasks - that would be helpful
16:12:43 <Zakim> sorry, AWK, I do not recognize a party named '978.899.aadd'
16:12:51 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:12:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see Joshue, EricE, Michael_Cooper, AWK, Kenny, Marc_Johlic, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Mike_Elledge, Kathy_Wahlbin, Loretta, Kathy
16:13:03 <AWK> Zakim, Kathy is MoeKraft
16:13:03 <Zakim> +MoeKraft; got it
16:13:04 <Ryladog_> EE: We should put the progress into prototyoes
16:13:11 <MoeKraft> thanks
16:13:42 <yatil> s/Erik/Eric/
16:13:55 <Ryladog_> AWK: Great. Did people get a chance to look thru this? Do you know what we expected of you? What would be helpful?
16:14:02 <Mike_Elledge> q+
16:14:08 <AWK> ack m
16:14:52 <Ryladog_> ME: I would like some context. Are we thinking of developing an umbrella for introductory method onhow people would find things
16:15:07 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
16:15:07 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:15:08 <yatil> http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG20/quickref/
16:15:09 <AWK> redesign of http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG20/quickref/
16:15:09 <Joshue> q?
16:15:13 <Ryladog_> AWK: This is for the redesign of How To Meet WCAG document - the Quick Ref
16:15:54 <Joshue> q+
16:15:56 <Ryladog_> AWK: One of the challenges - redesign opens up other questions. But we need to be careful of scope. We may identify that we need to make
16:16:13 <AWK> KHS: One of the big issues in the US in trying to get ppl to use WCAG is
16:16:28 <AWK> ...that the people freak out
16:16:43 <AWK> ...BB and I have a course to help people
16:16:55 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #wai-wcag
16:16:56 <AWK> ...will be 100s of K ppl looking at this once 508 refresh is out
16:17:18 <Zakim> +jon_avila
16:17:20 <AWK> ... especially with WCAG2ICT bringing in SW also
16:17:34 <Joshue> ack me
16:17:35 <AWK> ack j
16:18:09 <Ryladog_> JO: Question Eric I see that you have a list of 12 or 13 tasks. Are you thinking we might need to add more tasks?
16:18:20 <Ryladog_> EE: Yes and we need to do a prioritization
16:18:42 <jon_avila> +1
16:18:49 <Ryladog_> JO: I see #3 - AWK thought this was a good idea - a check-off thing - I like this idea. Thanks Eric
16:19:18 <Kathy> +1
16:19:19 <Ryladog_> JA: Yes for like images , form etc
16:19:49 <Ryladog_> AWK: I am doing a site - I dont have tables, I do have forms, I di have images, etc. Getting techniques specific to their content
16:20:04 <Mike_Elledge> q+
16:20:14 <AWK> ack mi
16:20:18 <Ryladog_> AWK; I amnot sure how gradular we want this to be. Do others think this is a good idea?
16:20:32 <Joshue> s/amnot/am not
16:20:39 <Joshue> KHS: Absolutely
16:21:06 <Ryladog_> ME: What about the WCAG 2.0 database - does it have a good search function?
16:21:14 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
16:21:14 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:21:17 <yatil> q+ to say something about the implementation details
16:21:58 <AWK> ack erice
16:21:58 <Zakim> EricE, you wanted to say something about the implementation details
16:21:59 <Ryladog_> AWK; We could do a directory search capability - I am not sure W3C will allow us to have a Google search box in the DB
16:22:11 <yatil> ack me
16:22:13 <Ryladog_> JE: Yes that is the functionality I was thinking of
16:22:48 <Ryladog_> EE: Well that is what we want but I am unsure that we can do that. We are working on an approach - for some type of exchange format
16:23:16 <Ryladog_> EE: I am working on a tool. BUt we do not  hvae a search functionality capability right now - but we have to loo into that
16:23:20 <Mike_Elledge> q+
16:23:25 <yatil> s/loo/look/
16:23:27 <AWK> ack mi
16:24:33 <Ryladog_> ME: Techniques section and how to make it more useful - part of the issue is putting information into context - good website format - for sceening out things that werrent relevant. Something like a mock webpage
16:25:04 <Ryladog_> ME: for some one using a web editor - this is just a thought
16:25:13 <Ryladog_> AWK: I like the before and after
16:25:46 <yatil> ack me
16:25:47 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
16:25:55 <Ryladog_> ME: Something that is more interactive - like if you were working on a ttable you could click on it and it would take you to techniques for table etc
16:26:15 <Ryladog_> EE: That is the plan but we need resources
16:26:52 <Ryladog_> EE: We want to get to an intuitive UI so filks dont have to know where to go - which they have to do right now
16:27:04 <Joshue> q?
16:27:07 <Joshue> q+
16:27:46 <Ryladog_> AWK: Eric to clarify the task for the WG - they should first look at the list of tasks or should they just go top to bottom?
16:27:55 <Ryladog_> EE: top to bottom is the way to go
16:28:02 <Joshue> ack me
16:28:17 <Ryladog_> JO: I think so as well the tasks are the most important
16:28:42 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
16:29:00 <Ryladog_> AWK: Do we have a define list of everthing we think the current QuickRef does?
16:29:14 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
16:29:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/02-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
16:29:37 <Ryladog_> JO: Eo said that it doesnt actually do what it was designed to do - but I didnt get what that idea was
16:29:38 <MichaelC> ack me
16:29:54 <yatil> s/Eo/EO WG/
16:29:57 <Ryladog_> MC: stuff we can point to
16:30:28 <Ryladog_> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
16:30:49 <Ryladog_> AWK; a 10 minute exersize for a first stab
16:30:59 <MichaelC> ack me
16:31:08 <Ryladog_> AWK: a 10 minute exersize for a first stab
16:31:11 <yatil> s/AWK;/AWK:/
16:31:18 <Brent> Brent has joined #wai-wcag
16:31:20 <yatil> scribeNick: Ryladog_
16:31:37 <yatil> rrsagent, make minutes
16:31:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/02-wai-wcag-minutes.html yatil
16:31:42 <Ryladog_> MC: We can look thru meeting minutes from 10 years ago - but I think it was like a checklist which is what we did with WCAG 1.0
16:31:57 <Ryladog_> MC: But perhaps we should not worry about that too much
16:32:13 <Ryladog_> JO: But we should look at that so we do not make any missteps
16:32:25 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
16:32:25 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:32:31 <Ryladog_> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:32:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see Joshue (muted), EricE, Michael_Cooper (muted), AWK, Kenny, Marc_Johlic, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Mike_Elledge, Kathy_Wahlbin, Loretta, MoeKraft, jon_avila,
16:32:35 <Zakim> ... James_Nurthen
16:32:41 <MoeKraft> survey
16:32:49 <Zakim> + +1.512.276.aaee
16:33:00 <Ryladog_> AWK: OK we will go with putting our comments on the wiki
16:33:00 <Brent> zakim, aaee is Brent
16:33:00 <Zakim> +Brent; got it
16:33:17 <Ryladog_> zakim, next item
16:33:17 <Zakim> agendum 2. "survey review" taken up [from Kenny]
16:33:20 <AWK> Zakim, next item
16:33:20 <Zakim> agendum 2 was just opened, AWK
16:33:27 <yatil> z mute
16:33:33 <Ryladog_> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:33:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see Joshue (muted), EricE, Michael_Cooper (muted), AWK, Kenny, Marc_Johlic, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Mike_Elledge, Kathy_Wahlbin, Loretta, MoeKraft, jon_avila,
16:33:36 <Zakim> ... James_Nurthen, Brent
16:33:46 <Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/surveyReview/results
16:33:53 <Ryladog_> TOPIC: Survey
16:34:11 <yatil> Zakim, mute me
16:34:11 <Zakim> EricE should now be muted
16:34:14 <yatil> s/z mute//
16:34:51 <Ryladog_> AWK: Thanks to those who submitted comments
16:35:03 <Ryladog_> TOPIC: 1. Please provide any comments on the visual design or informational structure that you feel particularly help or hinder use of the techniques document or of individual techniques.
16:35:18 <Ryladog_> AWK: Loretta what did you want to say?
16:36:00 <Ryladog_> LGR: Lots of folks find it hard to navigate, and different kinds of feedback on the design of the docs
16:36:07 <yatil> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:36:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/02-wai-wcag-minutes.html yatil
16:36:16 <Mike_Elledge> q+
16:36:19 <Ryladog_> AWK: Did you get a sense - what is critical to chamge?
16:37:11 <yatil> s/ScribeNick: Ryladog/ScribeNick: Ryladog_/
16:37:12 <Ryladog_> LGR: I would say people were giving their reactions to the questions. Less white space, shorter lines. But in general more things about what is difficlut about the documents
16:37:14 <yatil> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:37:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/02-wai-wcag-minutes.html yatil
16:37:31 <Ryladog_> LGR: I tried to group them in my summary
16:37:37 <Ryladog_> AWK: Yes I see them
16:37:51 <Ryladog_> LGR: customization
16:38:24 <Ryladog_> TOPIC: 2. Please provide any suggestions you have for changes to make the techniques document more useful or easier to use
16:38:47 <Ryladog_> AWK: Kathy and Tim. What Tim got was that it was too difficult to search
16:39:00 <Joshue> ack me
16:39:11 <Ryladog_> AWK: I am using Chrome that puts everything in this fat font
16:39:14 <Ryladog_> me too
16:39:32 <Mike_Elledge> q+
16:39:36 <Joshue> ack mik
16:39:46 <AWK> ack m
16:39:50 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
16:39:50 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:40:15 <Ryladog_> ME: On the first question - it was hard for popel o find the information they were looking for in a quick way
16:40:55 <Ryladog_> ME: they are not sure how to find the techniques. You have many people coming in with different needs
16:41:38 <Ryladog_> ME: Most commnets wee about the problems with finding things in WCAG period
16:41:47 <Ryladog_> AWK; Bacjk to number 2 then...
16:42:35 <Ryladog_> AWK: Tim said - Users Guide, maybe clearer on how to find techniques,
16:42:39 <yatil> s/AWK; Bacjk/AWK: Back/
16:42:41 <Ryladog_> AWK: Kathy?
16:43:23 <Ryladog_> Kathy: Archived noticed, want more techniques for documents (word, ppt)
16:43:38 <Ryladog_> Kathy: I summarized
16:44:16 <Ryladog_> AWK: What I hear out of 1 and 2 are similar stuff - better simpler organizaation. Which validates what we think we know
16:44:27 <Ryladog_> AWK: This is
16:44:48 <Ryladog_> TOPIC: 3. Do you have any suggestions for improvements to the Introduction to Understanding WCAG 2.0 section?
16:44:49 <Joshue> ack me
16:45:30 <Ryladog_> JO: The take away - there is too much information - more relevant info - shorter -
16:45:56 <Ryladog_> JO: and some specific - use introductory space for how to use
16:46:12 <Ryladog_> TOPIC: 4. Do you have any suggestions for improvements to the Understanding Techniques for WCAG Success Criteria section?
16:46:25 <Ryladog_> AWK: Too long to read
16:46:39 <Ryladog_> JO: Stop letting academics write documentation
16:47:26 <Ryladog_> Andrew: a question was Why aren't their failure for everything?
16:48:06 <Ryladog_> JO: I got that there was a lot of wishful thinking folks wanted more techniques and failures
16:49:00 <Ryladog_> JA: I think we should have a documented failure for each thing that could be a failure. They wanted to see updating and modernizing
16:49:23 <Ryladog_> Folks didnt want to see techniques mapped to GL they only wanted to see  it mapped to SC
16:49:51 <Ryladog_> q+
16:50:42 <Ryladog_> KHS: I think we need to cintinue to do that where we have little choice
16:51:12 <Ryladog_> AWK: We do not want tto have to do that - maybe we will be able to addess this in the neext veersion of out GL
16:51:54 <AWK> ack ry
16:52:02 <Joshue> q?
16:52:05 <Ryladog_> JO: It would be interesting for us to document thoe tech/failure that dont map to specific SC and we are mapping to GL - to work on those gaps
16:52:25 <Ryladog_> TOPIC: 5. Please provide any comments on the visual design or informational structure that you feel particularly help or hinder use of the Understanding document.
16:52:55 <Ryladog_> AWK: Overwhelming was the profound noise. Many said dont change it
16:53:11 <Ryladog_> TOPIC: 6. Please provide any suggestions you have for changes to make the techniques document more useful or easier to use.
16:53:15 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
16:53:15 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:53:37 <MichaelC> ack me
16:53:40 <Ryladog_> AWK: Reer by handles, not sections. Organized by tasks
16:54:04 <Ryladog_> MC: The wording was by HTML elements - I would generalize that to tables etc
16:54:19 <Ryladog_> TOPIC: 7. Do you have any suggestions for improvements to these sections (of How To Meet)?
16:54:21 <yatil> ack me
16:54:45 <Ryladog_> EE: Some details they are not interested in.
16:55:22 <Ryladog_> AWK: People want to filter and customize and this is in Erics document already as a task
16:55:58 <Ryladog_> TOPIC: 8. When customizing the How to Meet WCAG 2.0 resource to show only a specific technology, such as CSS, general techniques are also included. Do you like this? Please provide any comments or thoughts on this behavior you would like to share.
16:56:02 <Ryladog_> Nothing
16:56:21 <Ryladog_> TOPIC: 10. Please provide any comments on the visual design or informational structure that you feel particularly help or hinder use of the How to Meet WCAG 2.0 resource
16:57:01 <Ryladog_> EE: People have a desire to have detail,