IRC log of social on 2014-12-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:01:56 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #social
18:01:56 [RRSAgent]
logging to
18:01:58 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
18:01:58 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #social
18:02:00 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be SOCL
18:02:00 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago
18:02:01 [trackbot]
Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
18:02:01 [trackbot]
Date: 02 December 2014
18:02:03 [mechanic]
mechanic has joined #social
18:02:08 [Arnaud]
zakim, who's on the phone?
18:02:08 [Zakim]
T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has not yet started, Arnaud
18:02:10 [Zakim]
On IRC I see mechanic, Zakim, RRSAgent, nicolagreco, jasnell, tiborKatelbach, AnnBassetti, evanpro, Arnaud, tilgovi, bblfish_, Morbus, shepazu, Loqi, nickstenn, oshepherd,
18:02:10 [Zakim]
... cwebber2, rektide_, dwhly, kylewm, pdurbin, rhiaro, jaakko, wilkie, Tsyesika, mattl, bret, bigbluehat, JakeHart, jessica_lily, hadleybeeman, aaronpk, trackbot, sandro, wseltzer
18:02:21 [Arnaud]
zakim, who's on the phone?
18:02:21 [Zakim]
T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has not yet started, Arnaud
18:02:23 [Zakim]
On IRC I see mechanic, Zakim, RRSAgent, nicolagreco, jasnell, tiborKatelbach, AnnBassetti, evanpro, Arnaud, tilgovi, bblfish_, Morbus, shepazu, Loqi, nickstenn, oshepherd,
18:02:23 [Zakim]
... cwebber2, rektide_, dwhly, kylewm, pdurbin, rhiaro, jaakko, wilkie, Tsyesika, mattl, bret, bigbluehat, JakeHart, jessica_lily, hadleybeeman, aaronpk, trackbot, sandro, wseltzer
18:02:29 [Arnaud]
zakim, this is socl
18:02:29 [Zakim]
ok, Arnaud; that matches T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM
18:02:45 [Arnaud]
zakim, who's on the phone?
18:02:45 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P0, tiborKatelbach, jasnell, Arnaud, evanpro
18:03:09 [cwebber2]
oh I'm P0, one sec
18:03:13 [cwebber2]
??P0 is me
18:03:23 [cwebber2]
hm, how do I do that again :)
18:03:28 [cwebber2]
Zakim: ??P0 is me
18:03:32 [jessica_lily]
Zakim, P0 is cwebber2
18:03:32 [Zakim]
sorry, jessica_lily, I do not recognize a party named 'P0'
18:03:32 [evanpro]
Zakim, ??P0 is cwebber2
18:03:33 [Zakim]
+cwebber2; got it
18:03:35 [jessica_lily]
18:03:37 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.455.aaaa
18:03:40 [jessica_lily]
hm :P
18:03:41 [Zakim]
18:03:42 [cwebber2]
heh, thanks :)
18:03:51 [wilkie]
Zakim, IPcaller is me
18:03:51 [Zakim]
+wilkie; got it
18:03:52 [cwebber2]
Zakim, botsnack
18:03:53 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'botsnack', cwebber2
18:03:55 [Zakim]
18:03:56 [cwebber2]
18:03:57 [evanpro]
Zakim, who's on the call?
18:03:57 [Zakim]
On the phone I see cwebber2, tiborKatelbach, jasnell, Arnaud, evanpro, +1.408.455.aaaa, wilkie, ??P8
18:03:58 [KevinMarks]
KevinMarks has joined #social
18:04:09 [rhiaro]
Zakim, ??P8 is me
18:04:09 [Zakim]
+rhiaro; got it
18:04:16 [KevinMarks]
I'm on the call but muted as I'm driving
18:04:20 [rhiaro]
I can scribe if my connection stays good
18:04:32 [evanpro]
scribenick rhiaro
18:04:39 [rhiaro]
Can't promise, it's been sketchy lately
18:04:56 [Zakim]
18:05:06 [jessica_lily]
Zakim, ??P11 is me
18:05:06 [Zakim]
+jessica_lily; got it
18:05:08 [Zakim]
18:05:09 [jessica_lily]
Zakim, mute me
18:05:09 [Zakim]
jessica_lily should now be muted
18:05:26 [evanpro]
18:05:36 [rhiaro]
evanpro: Review minutes from last week
18:05:54 [rhiaro]
... Objections or corrections?
18:06:02 [Zakim]
18:06:16 [rhiaro]
... Minutes approved
18:06:19 [evanpro]
RESOLVED: approved minutes of 25 November
18:06:48 [rhiaro]
TOPIC: Actions and issues tracker
18:07:01 [evanpro]
18:07:09 [rhiaro]
evanpro: Checking open issues for any that need to be addressed
18:07:24 [rhiaro]
... No names on issues, checking actions
18:07:35 [Zakim]
18:07:36 [rhiaro]
... A few for harry, mostly about pubsubhubbub and licensing
18:07:45 [evanpro]
Zakim, who's on the call?
18:07:46 [Zakim]
On the phone I see cwebber2, tiborKatelbach, jasnell, Arnaud, evanpro, +1.408.455.aaaa, wilkie, rhiaro (muted), jessica_lily (muted), bblfish, Ann, Doug_Schepers
18:08:17 [rhiaro]
... one for me, to update review of Foursquare API. Plan to do for next week.
18:08:21 [jasnell] is covered by the extended vocabulary proposal ... if we adopt that then this issue will be closed
18:08:28 [rhiaro]
... A couple for jasnell
18:08:39 [rhiaro]
... actions 8 and 9, one about social APIs due today
18:08:49 [rhiaro]
jasnell: Will have to be pushed back
18:08:56 [rhiaro]
... Part in the wiki already, but lots of work
18:09:01 [rhiaro]
... Another week or two
18:09:09 [rhiaro]
evanpro: Not just opensocial? Link to spec?
18:09:24 [rhiaro]
jasnell: Connections has its own atom based API, more complex than open social
18:09:32 [rhiaro]
... In the wiki, linked to developer docs, but needs summarising
18:09:40 [rhiaro]
evanpro: Presentation about this next week?
18:09:46 [rhiaro]
jasnell: Tentative
18:09:52 [Zakim]
18:09:58 [rhiaro]
... Could give very high level, would take lots of time for detail
18:10:15 [rhiaro]
evanpro: jasnell to review next week
18:10:26 [rhiaro]
... That's it for open actions, still some work to do.
18:10:31 [jasnell] is covered by the extended vocabulary proposal
18:10:36 [rhiaro]
... Any other comment on actions and issues in tracker?
18:10:54 [rhiaro]
TOPIC: Face-to-face meeting
18:11:03 [rhiaro]
evanpro: Doodle has been open for a while
18:11:16 [rhiaro]
... Were close to consensus, but messed it up
18:11:27 [rhiaro]
... Can't do beginning of Feb, no chairs
18:11:37 [rhiaro]
... Looking like 10-19 March
18:11:37 [jaywink]
jaywink has joined #social
18:11:49 [rhiaro]
... But not everyone has filled out the doodle yet
18:11:59 [rhiaro]
... sandro, mark, owen, a few others
18:12:05 [evanpro]
Zakim, who's here?
18:12:05 [Zakim]
On the phone I see cwebber2, tiborKatelbach, jasnell, Arnaud, evanpro, +1.408.455.aaaa, wilkie, rhiaro (muted), jessica_lily (muted), bblfish, Ann, Doug_Schepers, Sandro
18:12:09 [Zakim]
On IRC I see jaywink, KevinMarks, mechanic, Zakim, RRSAgent, nicolagreco, jasnell, tiborKatelbach, AnnBassetti, evanpro, Arnaud, tilgovi, bblfish, Morbus, shepazu, Loqi, nickstenn,
18:12:09 [Zakim]
... oshepherd, cwebber2, rektide_, dwhly, kylewm, pdurbin, rhiaro, jaakko, wilkie, Tsyesika, mattl, bret, bigbluehat, JakeHart, jessica_lily, hadleybeeman, aaronpk, trackbot,
18:12:09 [Zakim]
... sandro, wseltzer
18:12:11 [rhiaro]
... Don't know if we should pick a time without tantek on the call
18:12:24 [sandro]
sorry, those times are all fine with me
18:12:33 [MarkCrawford]
MarkCrawford has joined #social
18:12:33 [rhiaro]
... Deferring to Arnaud. Should we pick a time today?
18:12:48 [rhiaro]
... with the risk of losing tantek? Or defer until next week?
18:12:56 [rhiaro]
Arnaud: We can wait a bit more
18:12:59 [AdamB]
AdamB has joined #social
18:13:05 [rhiaro]
... We need a good chance of having as many people as possible
18:13:06 [Zakim]
18:13:19 [rhiaro]
... Could people take the time to update the poll?
18:13:29 [rhiaro]
... But no reason to rush a decision right now
18:13:50 [Zakim]
18:13:52 [wilkie] btw
18:13:54 [rhiaro]
... We need to decide 8 weeks ahead of time
18:14:02 [Zakim]
+ +1.703.670.aabb
18:14:04 [Zakim]
- +1.703.670.aabb
18:14:07 [rhiaro]
... Shouldn't lose track, need to keep the pressure on
18:14:17 [rhiaro]
evanpro: Slipping past the 8 week for the end of Feb anyway
18:14:28 [Zakim]
+ +1.703.670.aacc
18:14:30 [rhiaro]
... Mid March looks best, we can decide by january
18:14:45 [jasnell]
that week would be best for me for sure
18:14:59 [jasnell]
(March 17-19)
18:15:04 [rhiaro]
... postpone the decision for another week. People, please update the doodle! Or risk being unable to come to the event.
18:15:27 [AdamB]
was location discussed yet?
18:15:37 [rhiaro]
TOPIC: Social API review: OpenSocial Activity Streams API
18:15:59 [AdamB]
18:16:15 [rhiaro]
evanpro: We're looking at different APIs for social networks, and doing in-depth analyses with the intention of bringing out requirements
18:16:26 [rhiaro]
... We did twitter a couple of weeks ago, foursquare and facebook last week
18:16:51 [rhiaro]
... Today, OpenSocial AS API is one of the inputs for the working group, and because it's very different from the others, will go over it today
18:16:51 [evanpro]
18:17:03 [rhiaro]
... Spend 5 minutes going through it now
18:17:16 [rhiaro]
... The AS API for OpenSocial is one of the services that's part of the OpenSocial suite of APIs
18:17:49 [rhiaro]
... Core activities, use other APIs
18:18:09 [rhiaro]
... Provides a CRUD interface for AS events
18:18:33 [rhiaro]
... Supports XML representation that's a direct mapping of JSON from AS 1.0 to XML elements
18:18:41 [rhiaro]
... Not sure about level of support, but interesting
18:18:47 [Zakim]
- +1.408.455.aaaa
18:19:02 [rhiaro]
... OpenSocial uses OAuth 1.0; there are other mechanisms for auth too
18:19:15 [rhiaro]
... complicated, but decoupled auth from API endpoints
18:19:25 [rhiaro]
... Entities within OS API map directly to AS 1.0
18:19:34 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.455.aadd
18:19:41 [rhiaro]
... An activity which is an event, has subject-verb-object
18:19:52 [rhiaro]
... Activities can reference objects, which are nouns. ie people, images, places, groups
18:19:54 [shepazu]
(CRUD: Create Read Update Delete)
18:19:58 [rhiaro]
... Or extended, self-defined objects
18:20:09 [rhiaro]
... API has four endpoints, not all required, two required (create and read)
18:20:26 [rhiaro]
... Interesting in that they're similar to how atompub manages creation of atom entries
18:20:39 [rhiaro]
... Create endpoint, that you post a new activity to
18:20:49 [rhiaro]
... Read endpoint, can be the same as post endpoint, or different
18:20:54 [rhiaro]
... Can return a stream or a single activity
18:21:09 [rhiaro]
... Complicated because you can change which activities are returned based on url parameters
18:21:23 [rhiaro]
... can get back a user's activities or a group's activities, or activities for a particular application (eg a game)
18:21:34 [rhiaro]
... Can also filter down to an activity ID
18:21:43 [rhiaro]
... Update endpoint, using PUT
18:21:49 [rhiaro]
... should update an activity. optional.
18:21:52 [rhiaro]
... Also Delete
18:22:05 [rhiaro]
... Introspection endpoint, which returns fields for AS container
18:22:15 [rhiaro]
... Overall, very different from the other ones we've talked about
18:22:31 [rhiaro]
... Not a lot of access to other parts of social network like friends or followers list, or getting profile information about a user
18:22:36 [rhiaro]
... Really about activity lifecycle
18:22:44 [rhiaro]
... Direct and simple
18:22:59 [rhiaro]
... Doesn't give a lot of information for reading
18:23:09 [cwebber2]
18:23:11 [rhiaro]
... No concept of inbox, to get activities by people you follow or groups
18:23:17 [rhiaro]
... Really about CRUD lifecycle
18:23:21 [evanpro]
ack cwebber2
18:23:22 [bblfish]
18:23:26 [bblfish]
18:23:41 [rhiaro]
cwebber2: Curious about whether supports addressing; privacy aspect of who something is addressed to; public or directed
18:23:44 [jasnell]
there is some addressing support included but it's not based on the to/cc/bcc stuff
18:23:53 [dromasca]
dromasca has joined #social
18:23:59 [rhiaro]
evanpro: Has extension to AS 1.0 for addressing
18:24:12 [rhiaro]
... A way within the activity object to say it's to a particular audience
18:24:27 [evanpro]
ACTION: Link to OpenSocial extensions to Activity Streams 1.0
18:24:27 [trackbot]
Error finding 'Link'. You can review and register nicknames at <>.
18:24:32 [rhiaro]
... Will link to Open Social extensions to AS 1.0
18:24:43 [evanpro]
ACTION eprodrom Link to OpenSocial extensions to Activity Streams 1.0
18:24:43 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-17 - Link to opensocial extensions to activity streams 1.0 [on Evan Prodromou - due 2014-12-09].
18:24:52 [rhiaro]
... Any more questions?
18:24:55 [bblfish]
18:24:58 [shepazu]
18:25:06 [cwebber2]
yup, thumbs up from here
18:25:08 [evanpro]
ack bblfish
18:25:11 [Zakim]
18:25:14 [jasnell]
18:25:53 [rhiaro]
bblfish: A lot of APIs, seems like the URLs are hardcoded? Does AS always have to be /activitystreams?
18:26:18 [rhiaro]
... When we use linked data, we have relations in the documents that point us to different endpoints, and it doesn't really matter what they're called. So we could have Tor URLs for example, that are opaque
18:26:27 [tantek]
tantek has joined #social
18:26:28 [jasnell]
18:26:41 [rhiaro]
... How does one find out where an activitystream is, where the user id is?
18:26:49 [rhiaro]
evanpro: There is a discovery process for OpenSocial
18:26:49 [jasnell]
18:26:54 [rhiaro]
... but not 100% sure how it takes place
18:27:04 [rhiaro]
... but I do think that OpenSocial clients expect these particular formats
18:27:10 [rhiaro]
s/formats/url formats
18:27:11 [cwebber2]
hei tantek
18:27:14 [tantek]
belated regrets for this telcon - out at a meeting today
18:27:25 [tantek]
catches up on logs:
18:27:33 [rhiaro]
... So you can say my activitystreams server is this and I support the AS API, but you can't say where your get endpoint, post endpoint etc, are. Doesn't go fine-grained.
18:27:42 [rhiaro]
... Don't believe there's a follow your nose through the activity itself
18:27:48 [jasnell]
18:28:03 [rhiaro]
bblfish: Are the put, post and get all on the same url or different?
18:28:25 [rhiaro]
evanpro: Kind of. Read endpoint can have different structures, and accept POST and GET. Not entirely sure.
18:28:39 [evanpro]
ack shepazu
18:28:45 [jasnell]
18:29:04 [KevinMarks]
KevinMarks has joined #social
18:29:19 [rhiaro]
shepazu: Is it the intent of this group... some limitations, read and discovery isn't great on OpenSocial. Is this group going to extend OpenSocial to improve?
18:29:35 [rhiaro]
evanpro: Right now we're trying to get an idea of what a social API should look like
18:29:45 [rhiaro]
... going through the patterns of different proprietary APIs
18:30:01 [rhiaro]
... OpenSocial is special because it's the only standardised one we've got
18:30:12 [rhiaro]
... If we choose to standardise, there would probably be some changes
18:30:36 [rhiaro]
... I would be comfortable with making things as easy as possible for ourselves, and adopting something this simple with potential extensions, but may be some questions around that and fine-tuning
18:30:45 [rhiaro]
... Don't know if we'd do something that's 100% OpenSocial 2.5 compatible
18:30:47 [evanpro]
18:30:54 [AnnBassetti]
18:30:59 [evanpro]
ack AnnBassetti
18:31:29 [tantek]
is there any actual active development, implementation, deployment of anything OpenSocial on the open web today? my impression is that it was dying/dead
18:31:32 [rhiaro]
AnnBassetti: Question about APIs in general. In previous descriptions of twitter and facebook, where does the advertising or the promoted tweet/post come into play?
18:31:42 [tantek]
great question AnnBassetti
18:31:50 [sandro]
brilliant question Ann :-)
18:31:55 [rhiaro]
... I could see in the enterprise scenario where we would use such an element to advertise, to make a corporate announcement
18:32:00 [tantek]
18:32:03 [Loqi]
AnnBassetti has 4 karma
18:32:29 [rhiaro]
evanpro: Twitter inserts promoted tweets into the inbox endpoint, they're not different from the people you follow tweets
18:32:31 [aaronpk]
they are marked as "promoted" but other than that appear as normal tweets
18:32:39 [rhiaro]
... in the twitter ToS, clients aren't allowed to differentiate
18:32:49 [rhiaro]
... i think that facebook's AS API is similar, but not sure
18:32:59 [rhiaro]
... Those are the two that have advertisements in streams
18:33:06 [rhiaro]
... Don't know about FourSquare. Don't think ads are in stream
18:33:12 [rhiaro]
... Ads separate process, separate endpoint
18:33:20 [rhiaro]
AnnBassetti: Is that an aspect we should include in our descriptions?
18:33:21 [shepazu]
18:33:32 [evanpro]
ACTION eprodrom note about advertising in Twitter and Facebook APIs
18:33:32 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-18 - Note about advertising in twitter and facebook apis [on Evan Prodromou - due 2014-12-09].
18:33:33 [rhiaro]
evanpro: Interesting part of it. Going to add an action to note about advertising in twitter and facebook APIs
18:33:42 [rhiaro]
... Great question!
18:34:06 [evanpro]
18:34:09 [evanpro]
ack shepazu
18:34:34 [rhiaro]
shepazu: If we're going to talk about that, we should talk about the general case, not advertising specifically but service notifications, any other kind of update that is sent out that is not part of a normal stream
18:34:45 [rhiaro]
... not generated by people that the user follows. Should be some general case.
18:34:58 [rhiaro]
AnnBassetti: Something you get that you're not asking for
18:35:09 [rhiaro]
shepazu: Could be something from emergency services that's required by law
18:35:13 [AnnBassetti]
and didn't come from your 'friends'
18:35:15 [rhiaro]
... Could be priority or out-of-band mechanism
18:35:21 [rhiaro]
... A 'class' of notifications
18:35:39 [tantek]
I'd push back on "general case" - please document on the #SocialIG wiki page the specific use-cases that are driving "the general case, not advertising specifically but service notifications, any other kind of update that is sent out that is not part of a normal stream"
18:35:40 [rhiaro]
evanpro: Maybe jasnell could address this: there were some extensions from AS 1.0 to specify priorities
18:35:49 [rhiaro]
... Did the priority process get into 2.0?
18:35:54 [rhiaro]
jasnell: Yes
18:36:06 [rhiaro]
... it's generic, range of 0-1, abstracted
18:36:10 [rhiaro]
... No clear semantics on top of it
18:36:14 [rhiaro]
... 1 being highest, 0 being lowest
18:36:18 [rhiaro]
... Basic form.
18:36:22 [shepazu]
(not sure that "priority" is the right mechanism, just threw that out there)
18:36:22 [evanpro]
18:36:38 [rhiaro]
evanpro: Now cwebber2 can overview flickr API
18:36:51 [cwebber2]
18:36:59 [nicolagreco_]
nicolagreco_ has joined #social
18:37:00 [rhiaro]
cwebber2: Brief overview of Flickr, not finished yet
18:37:09 [cwebber2]
18:37:21 [rhiaro]
... General idea with this API is pretty well documented, and in many ways pretty simple
18:37:24 [tantek]
just rechecked the Doodle for next f2f - my info is up to date
18:37:26 [rhiaro]
... Uses OAuth 1.0 for auth
18:37:36 [rhiaro]
... Used to have their own, but deprecated their own. Limited permissions system in place.
18:38:02 [rhiaro]
... A lot of the APIs we've been reviewing have a lot of different endpoints for every single type of activity
18:38:21 [rhiaro]
... Which is related to django and rails way of doing urls
18:38:23 [cwebber2]
18:38:29 [rhiaro]
... But flickr just has a few
18:38:39 [rhiaro]
... You can see there are request formats and response formats
18:38:41 [cwebber2]
18:38:50 [rhiaro]
... On the request formats page, a few endpoints, eg. rest
18:39:01 [cwebber2]
18:39:20 [rhiaro]
... Also XML RPC endpoint where you can do the same type of thing but different serialisation
18:39:43 [rhiaro]
... Lots of different methods for these different endpoints
18:39:57 [harry]
harry has joined #social
18:40:08 [bblfish]
it's understandable, but lightly choppy
18:40:09 [bblfish]
18:40:11 [bblfish]
18:40:13 [evanpro]
18:40:15 [wilkie]
sounds good
18:40:19 [evanpro]
Little choppy but OK
18:40:47 [rhiaro]
... Each endpoint requires different params, depending on serialisation format
18:41:06 [harry]
Zakim, what's the code?
18:41:06 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7625 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, harry
18:41:07 [rhiaro]
... Can request different ways of getting information back. So if you wanted to submit via xmlrpc API but get json back, you can
18:41:32 [rhiaro]
... Although there are different endpoints for manipulating data and getting information back, the payload for these are pretty small
18:41:41 [cwebber2]
18:41:44 [Zakim]
18:41:45 [rhiaro]
... Except photo uploading. Entirely different endpoint for that
18:41:48 [harry]
Zakim, IPcaller is hhalpin
18:41:48 [Zakim]
+hhalpin; got it
18:42:04 [rhiaro]
... And if you post to it and it has different params. Well documented.
18:42:22 [rhiaro]
... Params include what the safety level is (eg family-friendly), title, description, tags
18:42:32 [rhiaro]
... Does have restrictions around recipients: public or friends/family only
18:42:39 [rhiaro]
... But that's as fine grained as it gets
18:42:46 [rhiaro]
... Also has params to say whether it's hidden or global
18:43:00 [rhiaro]
... If yo uwant to do anything on top of that you use the method API endpoint (?)
18:43:15 [rhiaro]
... No serialisation formats options for photo POST API
18:43:29 [rhiaro]
... interesting, because I'm curious about how we're going to handle media submission alongside activity
18:43:41 [nicolagreco]
nicolagreco has joined #social
18:44:00 [rhiaro]
... Can get Evan's comments? When Jessica was implementing pumpio API support for MediaGoblin, different APIs for uploading a photo, how to give other parameters
18:44:39 [rhiaro]
evanpro: That is a pattern. OpenSocial defers media upload to separate part of OpenSocial API. We'd need to take a look at that.
18:44:47 [cwebber2]
sorry about it cutting in and out
18:44:50 [rhiaro]
... It seems to be a pattern that we see in different API, where media upload is a separate process
18:44:52 [cwebber2]
I wish I had a better connection :\
18:44:54 [rhiaro]
... Not sure if this is optimal
18:45:02 [cwebber2]
rhiaro: yes great job!
18:45:09 [nicolagreco]
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18:45:10 [rhiaro]
... Questions about flickr API
18:45:26 [rhiaro]
... Size of the API? Did a quick count - something like 200+ services
18:45:33 [rhiaro]
cwebber2: Didn't count
18:45:38 [nicolagreco_]
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18:45:39 [rhiaro]
... Didn't get to thta
18:45:45 [rhiaro]
18:45:51 [rhiaro]
evanpro: It is a huge API
18:46:09 [rhiaro]
... Another question: Don't see anything about adding/removing members of social network
18:46:30 [rhiaro]
cwebber2: Didn't get to that yet
18:46:49 [rhiaro]
evanpro: Flickr may be one of the oldest social APIs out there. Flickr is a decade old.
18:46:49 [evanpro]
18:46:58 [bblfish]
18:47:01 [rhiaro]
... Any questions for Chris about the Flickr API?
18:47:04 [evanpro]
ack bblfish
18:47:24 [rhiaro]
bblfish: Didn't understand whether there were a lot of endpoints, or a lot of messages to one endpoint? Seem to be a lot of different ways of accessing the data. How RESTful is this?
18:47:36 [rhiaro]
... Can you use the DELETE verb on the URL so it works with caching?
18:47:36 [evanpro]
18:47:45 [rhiaro]
... One could ask this for every API.
18:47:55 [rhiaro]
... To facilitate linking between resources and caching of them.
18:48:11 [cwebber2]
18:48:14 [rhiaro]
cwebber2: In terms of RESTfulness of it, and number of endpoints, just a couple of different endpoints
18:48:17 [bblfish]
so this is more SOAPY
18:48:20 [rhiaro]
... Literally a single endpoint called /rest/
18:48:25 [rhiaro]
... simple HTTP GET and POST
18:48:33 [rhiaro]
... more SOAPy, but with a different variety of layers
18:48:47 [rhiaro]
... Multiple RPC serialisations, which all look very similar, but just adapt to a particular method
18:48:53 [evanpro]
18:48:54 [tantek]
Now that's pretty funny. A single endpoint called /rest/ - that's ironically not even remotely close to a "RESTful" API.
18:49:03 [rhiaro]
... If you want to use REST or XMLRPC or SOAP, mostly the same but with different serialisation formats. Three separate URLs.
18:49:03 [nicolagreco]
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18:49:16 [bblfish]
ah ok. Just 3 different end points, with many different messages to it.
18:49:19 [rhiaro]
... Just specify method=flickr.blogs.getlist (eg)
18:49:25 [bblfish]
18:49:29 [cwebber2]
18:49:36 [rhiaro]
evanpro: Any other questions for Chris?
18:49:38 [evanpro]
18:49:54 [nicolagreco_]
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18:49:56 [tantek]
Do any existing *real-world* (i.e. at least one company supporting it) social web APIs do ANYTHING with any HTTP verbs other than GET, POST?
18:50:09 [tantek]
I.e. I would claim that NONE of them (i.e. nobody) use(s) DELETE.
18:50:17 [bblfish]
Here for AnnBassetti, Roy's thesis :-)
18:50:18 [cwebber2]
I could possibly organize it, I'm not sure how you would want it organized
18:50:19 [rhiaro]
... Thanks Chris! A thing that might be useful to cluster methods to inform the rest of our process
18:50:31 [evanpro] <-- roadmap
18:50:32 [rhiaro]
... Set aside last few mintues to discuss where we are with our process on social APIs
18:50:33 [cwebber2]
I could try to follow the flickr/twitter api patterns
18:50:35 [rhiaro]
... See roadmap link
18:50:37 [tantek]
And thus would pushback on RESTians that keep bringing up using PUT, DELETE, etc. because in practice, they are dead ends.
18:50:58 [bblfish]
18:51:01 [rhiaro]
... 1) identify APIs, 2) identify functionalities, 3) assemble requirements
18:51:04 [evanpro]
18:51:10 [rhiaro]
... We have a beginning of that (see link)
18:51:23 [rhiaro]
... Would like to know from the group if it makes sense to continue with more reviews?
18:51:37 [shepazu]
18:51:39 [rhiaro]
... More idea about micropub? Indieweb API
18:51:50 [bblfish]
I'd like to talk about LDP based API
18:51:51 [rhiaro]
... Would like to talk about API, similar to OpenSocial AS
18:52:02 [rhiaro]
... Main question is, do we continue with these reviews for another week or so?
18:52:05 [the_frey]
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18:52:09 [evanpro]
18:52:11 [rhiaro]
... Or start to collect requirements?
18:52:16 [evanpro]
ack shepazu
18:52:51 [jasnell]
personally, I'd like to see a minimal baseline proposal soon. even if just a strawman to get started
18:53:12 [rhiaro]
shepazu: Useful to hear about different features etc of each. I would like to hear about more. But moving on to other things might be useful. But main thing I think would be useful is to have a matrix; a list of features and APIs
18:53:16 [rhiaro]
... And break it down that way
18:53:26 [rhiaro]
... Qualified checkmark sort of thing with an explanation
18:53:35 [rhiaro]
... So we know what we're comparing in terms of features, and what gaps might be
18:53:48 [wilkie]
even if we had a basic API started, we could still review other APIs and use it to critique our design
18:53:54 [rhiaro]
... Useful when addressing use cases and requirements, because you can say which APIs support required features
18:54:03 [the_frey]
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18:54:20 [rhiaro]
... If that's useful, who is willing to compile such a feature list?
18:54:32 [rhiaro]
... And the people who presented the review on an API can fill it in on the matrix
18:54:42 [bblfish]
I like the Matrix
18:54:44 [rhiaro]
... Just a suggestion, but seems useful
18:54:51 [rhiaro]
evanpro: Makes a lot of sense
18:55:10 [rhiaro]
... Main downside is tables on mediawiki is an exercise in patience...
18:55:22 [harry]
Tables are terrible on media wiki - you could just email Doug and he could make the table :)
18:55:30 [rhiaro]
shepazu: Willing to do the table wrangling, then all pepole need to do is fill in checkmarks
18:55:41 [rhiaro]
evanpro: Great, happy to do that
18:55:56 [evanpro]
18:56:09 [rhiaro]
Sandro: Can just do html
18:56:09 [evanpro]
ack sandro
18:56:46 [rhiaro]
sandro: Another thing useful is a side-by-side comparison, ie what does SWAT0 look like in each of these APIs (or some other simple test case)
18:57:15 [rhiaro]
evanpro: SWAT0 is specifically done for federation efforts, but there are things that could be captured
18:57:25 [rhiaro]
sandro: SWAT0 is kind of overkill, but the individual pieces
18:57:43 [rhiaro]
evanpro: Main thing to avoid becoming the API documentation reading book club
18:57:56 [rhiaro]
... Can't read documentation forever, we need to use it
18:58:01 [rhiaro]
... Like Doug's idea of matrix
18:58:15 [rhiaro]
... Could aaronpk or tantek do a presentation about micropub next week?
18:58:21 [aaronpk]
sure, happy to talk about micropub next week
18:58:24 [rhiaro]
... And any others?
18:58:25 [bblfish]
18:58:27 [tantek]
I defer to aaronpk
18:58:31 [rhiaro]
... Then we should move out of API documentation
18:58:35 [evanpro]
ack bblfish
18:58:52 [rhiaro]
bblfish: Three weeks time I could have something that could show how one could use LDP API to do some of these things
18:59:08 [rhiaro]
... It might be interesting to let pepole see in comparison what doing the same thing in LDP would be
18:59:22 [rhiaro]
evanpro: bblfish, would you be willing to review how LDP works next week?
18:59:29 [rhiaro]
bblfish: Yes but not next week
18:59:36 [rhiaro]
... Week after is fine
18:59:48 [Zakim]
18:59:49 [rhiaro]
sandro: Is that a matter of looking at candidates?
18:59:59 [rhiaro]
evanpro: yeah, on the border
19:00:11 [rhiaro]
... it is an existing structure. Can defer until later
19:00:26 [AnnBassetti]
is LDP = Linked Data Platform or ??
19:00:27 [rhiaro]
... if we were talking abot using LDP as a candidate, there would be some clarification
19:00:42 [rhiaro]
bblfish: There are things missing in LDP
19:00:46 [rhiaro]
... eg notifications
19:00:51 [jasnell]
need to drop
19:00:57 [jasnell]
bye all
19:01:02 [rhiaro]
... but basic API.. you can already do a post of a picture, add a friend, delete a ... can do a lot of these things already
19:01:04 [Zakim]
19:01:05 [evanpro]
jasnell: thanks
19:01:26 [rhiaro]
evanpro: Put it on the agenda for 2 weeks
19:01:29 [rhiaro]
... We should wrap up
19:01:34 [jasnell]
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19:01:49 [rhiaro]
... Another look at doodle poll
19:02:05 [rhiaro]
There's another event the week after that cwebber2 and Jessica are going to, right?
19:02:14 [rhiaro]
... Planning for all 3 chairs to make it
19:02:21 [tantek]
All APIs we have reviewed so far have active real world deployments, multiple clients, multiple users.
19:02:27 [tantek]
That should be a minimum bar for our review
19:02:31 [rhiaro]
... So we're looking at 10-12 or 17-19
19:02:36 [rhiaro]
... We'll defer decision to next week
19:02:40 [rhiaro]
... Thanks everyone!
19:02:41 [Zakim]
19:02:42 [Zakim]
19:02:42 [cwebber2]
19:02:43 [Zakim]
19:02:43 [Zakim]
- +1.703.670.aacc
19:02:44 [AnnBassetti]
great job Evan
19:02:44 [Zakim]
19:02:46 [Zakim]
19:02:46 [Arnaud]
thanks, bye
19:02:46 [aaronpk]
tantek: agreed
19:02:47 [Zakim]
19:02:48 [Zakim]
19:02:49 [Zakim]
19:02:50 [Zakim]
19:02:51 [wilkie]
19:02:53 [Zakim]
19:02:53 [wilkie]
19:02:54 [tiborKatelbach]
19:02:56 [Loqi]
rhiaro has 3 karma
19:02:57 [cwebber2]
sorry my connection sucks
19:02:57 [tantek]
re: review how LDP works - who is using it to publish social web content on their own site today? anybody?
19:03:00 [Zakim]
19:03:02 [Zakim]
19:03:02 [Zakim]
- +1.408.455.aadd
19:03:07 [evanpro]
trackbot, end meeting
19:03:07 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
19:03:07 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been tiborKatelbach, jasnell, Arnaud, evanpro, cwebber2, +1.408.455.aaaa, wilkie, rhiaro, jessica_lily, bblfish, Ann, Doug_Schepers, Sandro,
19:03:09 [nicolagreco]
nicolagreco has joined #social
19:03:11 [Zakim]
... aaronpk, AdamB, +1.703.670.aabb, +1.703.670.aacc, +1.408.455.aadd, dromasca, hhalpin
19:03:11 [Zakim]
19:03:12 [bblfish]
sandro: we could try to work together on LDP for in a couple of weeks
19:03:15 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
19:03:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate trackbot