14:58:20 RRSAgent has joined #tt 14:58:20 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/11/20-tt-irc 14:58:22 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:58:22 Zakim has joined #tt 14:58:24 Zakim, this will be TTML 14:58:24 ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes 14:58:25 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 14:58:25 Date: 20 November 2014 14:59:55 SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has now started 15:00:03 + +1.720.897.aaaa 15:00:17 zakim, aaaa is me 15:00:17 +glenn; got it 15:01:36 pal has joined #tt 15:01:39 mike has joined #tt 15:01:59 +nigel 15:02:28 +Thierry 15:02:33 +pal 15:02:43 tmichel has joined #tt 15:03:00 Present: glenn, pal, thierry, nigel 15:03:02 chair: nigel 15:03:10 Regrets: jdsmith, courtney 15:03:11 +Mike 15:03:17 Present+ Mike 15:03:19 tm has joined #tt 15:05:10 scribeNick: nigel 15:05:19 Topic: This meeting 15:05:57 nigel: Next week is a public holiday in the US, so I'm wondering if we can proceed. 15:06:16 nigel, glenn, pal: We're available next week 15:06:25 Mike: Regrets for next week 15:07:16 tmichel: Regrets for next week 15:07:43 Regrets+ Frans 15:08:10 nigel: We'll proceed with a meeting next week, on the 27th. 15:08:49 nigel: AOB? 15:08:57 group: no AOB raised. 15:09:50 nigel: Looking ahead, I've cancelled 25th December and 1st Jan meetings, and we have 3 others in December, 15:10:11 ... which I propose to make 1 hour unless the workload increases significantly. 15:10:30 Topic: IMSC 1 review comments 15:10:40 https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/34314/WD-ttml-imsc1-20140930/doc/ 15:11:37 nigel: I've sent a friendly reminder to Simon Hailes requesting a response. 15:12:10 tm has joined #tt 15:12:25 tmichel: The other comments from chaals and cyril aren't so urgent because we've met their comments. 15:12:36 nigel: What's the process re DoC for no-response-received? 15:12:55 tmichel: We can tell the Director that the commenter didn't respond but we've implemented their comments. 15:13:11 ... It's an issue mainly when the comment has not been fully addressed. 15:13:30 ... You can always remind chaals and cyril if you want, but we can proceed regardless. 15:13:52 ... Yellow on Yellow on the DoC is not so good, but Green and Yellow is okay. 15:14:13 nigel: Does this block us from moving to CR? 15:14:31 tmichel: We can always request transition and then make the case to the Director. 15:14:44 glenn: We're not going to add TTML2 features to IMSC 1 anyway, so I think we should proceed regardless. 15:15:07 pal: In fact we have fully addressed Simon's comments but the group did not agree with the comment. We do have consensus in the group. 15:15:34 tmichel: If we think that we have fully agreed to his proposal... 15:16:17 pal: no, we fully addressed it, but we didn't agree with it. How long should we leave it for Simon to respond? 15:16:32 tmichel: The ending date is today, so I think in a couple of days we can request transition, and that actually gives us 15:16:56 ... about another week. It's good that the chair has pinged Simon again, nicely, too. I can't see the Director objecting, 15:17:03 ... since we cannot force the commenter to respond. 15:18:24 PROPOSAL: To request transition of IMSC 1 to CR. 15:18:54 RESOLUTION: We will request transition of IMSC 1 to CR. 15:19:35 nigel: What's the next stage now that we've agreed that? 15:19:55 tmichel: We have to organise a call with the Director and send the transition request. I can start drafting the TR. 15:20:09 ACTION: tmichel Draft Transition Request for CR 15:20:09 Created ACTION-351 - Draft transition request for cr [on Thierry Michel - due 2014-11-27]. 15:20:31 s/Request/Request for IMSC 1 15:21:34 ACTION: tmichel Organise a meeting with Plh, nigel, the Director and the Editor of IMSC 1 15:21:34 Created ACTION-352 - Organise a meeting with plh, nigel, the director and the editor of imsc 1 [on Thierry Michel - due 2014-11-27]. 15:22:24 tmichel: We also need the exit criteria ready for the CR. 15:22:45 nigel: I had an action to draft that following our TPAC meeting, I'll send to pal. 15:23:03 ACTION: pal Update IMSC 1 ED for CR with exit criteria wording 15:23:03 Created ACTION-353 - Update imsc 1 ed for cr with exit criteria wording [on Pierre-Anthony Lemieux - due 2014-11-27]. 15:23:13 pal: This is for the discussion with the Director? 15:23:16 tmichel: Yes. 15:23:55 action-333? 15:23:55 action-333 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Create a one pager to cover the plan for the director's meeting for taking imsc1 to cr. -- due 2014-10-27 -- OPEN 15:23:55 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/333 15:25:45 nigel: This is for my guidance during the meeting. 15:25:58 tmichel: action-351 is the formal request document. 15:26:26 pal: So action-333 is going to be input into that larger document? It was to demonstrate wide review etc. 15:26:51 tmichel: I will start drafting, and if there are points I need extra information for then you can help me edit, or if there are points that are not 100% accurate. 15:28:20 nigel: I think the meeting details will be richer than the transition doc. I would like Pierre to review Thierry's draft first, 15:28:26 ... and then I'll send it. 15:28:34 tmichel: I'll send it tomorrow. 15:28:43 action-348? 15:28:43 action-348 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Thank dvb for input re lc-2983 -- due 2014-11-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW 15:28:43 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/348 15:28:52 close action-348 15:28:52 Closed action-348. 15:28:55 action-350? 15:28:55 action-350 -- Nigel Megitt to Set the status of the imsc 1 review comments -- due 2014-11-20 -- PENDINGREVIEW 15:28:55 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/350 15:29:06 close action-350 15:29:06 Closed action-350. 15:30:09 Mike: I haven't seen the DECE response to W3C go anywhere. 15:31:26 nigel: I couldn't do anything it directly because it requests non-posting. 15:31:54 Mike: I was expecting someone with access to the file space to pull the files from the link and put them on a W3C space 15:32:11 ... and then post a shortened form of the response excluding the link. 15:32:43 nigel: Where should the files go? We didn't conclude on use of github or Mercurial for the test files. 15:33:29 pal: I think we'll transition to github at some point but for the time being I suggest keeping them in Mercurial. 15:33:48 ... I'm happy to make a directory under IMSC under Mercurial and upload all those files. When we switch to github we'll 15:33:54 ... transition everything together. 15:34:20 nigel: I'll send pal the email with the link so he can do that. 15:36:11 Mike: I'll deal with this with Pierre and redact the email and post to the appropriate mailing list. 15:37:21 ... for now I'll send the edited liaison to member-tt 15:37:46 Topic: Action Items 15:39:03 nigel: There's no progress to discuss on any of the overdue open action items. 15:39:23 Topic: Issues 15:39:49 nigel: We have 4 raised issues: 15:39:53 issue-354? 15:39:53 issue-354 -- Add support for letter spacing style semantics -- raised 15:39:53 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/354 15:40:38 glenn: This and the marquee style came from looking at ARIB-TT. The text emphasis and tate-chu-yoko came 15:40:47 ... from seeing other omissions. 15:41:01 pal: How is Issue-354 related to Issue-236? 15:41:03 issue-236? 15:41:03 issue-236 -- Character spacing, i.e. letter-spacing -- open 15:41:03 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/236 15:41:41 issue-354: [TTWG meeting] This may be a duplicate of issue-236 15:41:41 Notes added to issue-354 Add support for letter spacing style semantics. 15:41:53 reopen issue-354 15:41:53 Re-opened issue-354. 15:42:09 issue-355? 15:42:09 issue-355 -- Add support for marquee style semantics -- raised 15:42:09 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/355 15:42:21 reopen issue-355 15:42:21 Re-opened issue-355. 15:42:39 glenn: That's a shorthand version for doing a specific kind of animation like a ticker marquee text animation. 15:43:02 ... I need to review if that can be related to the TTML2 animate element - if it can we may not need to add any features. 15:43:21 ... At the worst case I want to document how the marquee style can be mapped to some TTML2 feature set. 15:44:06 Mike: We've had a couple of helpful private contacts but no official contact with ARIB. 15:44:23 ... I wonder if it would be helpful to communicate with ARIB themselves to understand what they're doing? 15:44:31 pal: Test vectors would be helpful too. 15:45:15 pal: We would want to avoid implementing something in TTML2 that doesn't actually meet the ARIB requirements so 15:45:18 ... the more detail the better. 15:46:00 Mike: I will investigate who the formal contact is at ARIB 15:46:13 Action: mdolan Investigate formal contact at ARIB 15:46:14 Created ACTION-354 - Investigate formal contact at arib [on Mike Dolan - due 2014-11-27]. 15:46:23 issue-356? 15:46:23 issue-356 -- Add support for text emphasis semantics -- raised 15:46:23 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/356 15:46:33 reopen issue-356 15:46:33 Re-opened issue-356. 15:46:59 glenn: The Japanese subtitling system lambda-cap commonly uses emphasis marks, a bit like the Japanese way of doing 15:47:31 ... italics. They put some mark over or under or right or left of the text to be emphasised. 15:47:52 ... We need it to support that Japanese requirement. The CSS 3 Text decoration module defines it, so I intend to use those 15:47:59 ... semantics when drafting a new style property. 15:48:32 glenn: This comes out of industry requirements not ARIB-TT. I'm working with some people on supporting features in the 15:48:42 ... deployed Japanese subtitling market. 15:48:55 pal: Can you point us to an example or add them to the issue? 15:49:15 glenn: Yes, I'll add some description. 15:49:36 issue-357? 15:49:36 issue-357 -- Add support for horizontal in vertical (tate-chu-yoko). -- raised 15:49:36 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/357 15:50:18 Glenn: this is basically a text orientation option that we don't yet support. 15:50:39 ... If you have vertical lines with a couple of small horizontal characters like digits or Latin characters then they will 15:51:02 ... often be laid out horizontally if the em-squares of the horizontal pieces can add up to the horizontal width of the vertical line. 15:51:16 ... We'd be borrowing it from the CSS 3 module. 15:51:21 pal: How does it relate to issue-229? 15:51:24 issue-229? 15:51:24 issue-229 -- Mixed vertical-horizontal progression direction -- open 15:51:24 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/229 15:51:59 pal: It's encouraging that there's alignment between the SMPTE requests and the Japanese features. 15:52:10 issue-357: This may be a duplicate of issue-229 15:52:11 Notes added to issue-357 Add support for horizontal in vertical (tate-chu-yoko).. 15:53:04 issue-273? 15:53:04 issue-273 -- Map fontFamily to external font file resources -- open 15:53:04 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/273 15:53:16 nigel: I suggest we park this for now since we've been discussing on the reflector successfully. 15:53:46 glenn: I've been working on this lately and 3 other issues, and will post soon - embedded data, content including fonts, images and audio will be addressed. 15:54:14 pal: I'm happy to follow up on the reflector because I'm confused as to what's broken in the current font face provision in TTML. 15:54:27 glenn: There's nothing broken, but we have no way to specify author-supplied fonts. 15:54:43 pal: But an author can specify any font name, including referring to a font file accompanying the TTML file. 15:55:14 glenn: There's no explicit linkage defined like you've just suggested for associating a font family name in a TTML file 15:55:20 ... with a specific font resource. 15:55:46 glenn: Going back to "afxp" we had a requirement to support downloadable fonts. We did not allow external references 15:56:13 ... before but now that we're going to it's not much change. 15:56:29 pal: I'll take this up on the reflector. We need to be clear what we're trying to achieve. 15:56:49 issue-305? 15:56:49 issue-305 -- Registry of TTML profiles and short names -- pending review 15:56:49 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/305 15:57:30 Mike: I don't think we're expecting more comms to/from MPEG except for a completed registry. 15:57:34 close issue-305 15:57:34 Closed issue-305. 15:57:45 Topic: TTML versions 15:57:53 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/5ee90ec0d897/ttml-status/index.html 15:58:19 nigel: We now have a product on tracker for this document. It'd be good if everyone could review it. 15:58:51 Topic: TTML2 15:59:32 nigel: We have 6 open CPs priority 1 to close before TTML2 FPWD - are the priorities correct? 15:59:56 glenn: I think the priorities are correct and am now back 'on point' and should make good progress soon. 16:00:13 ... We should be as complete as possible for FPWD because that's when the IPR process starts. 16:00:44 nigel: We need a revised timeline - glenn can we work offline to put one together? 16:00:51 glenn: I'm happy to do that. 16:00:59 -Mike 16:00:59 Mike: Have a good thanksgiving all 16:01:35 -glenn 16:01:36 -pal 16:01:44 -nigel 16:02:16 nigel: We're out of time so I'll adjourn. We will meet next week, but for those celebrating Thanksgiving, have a good one. 16:02:23 [adjourns meeting] 16:02:30 rrsagent, make logs public 16:02:36 rrsagent, generate minutes 16:02:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/20-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:08:49 s/anything it/anything with it 16:09:31 s/so he can do that./so he can do that. [Update: done during meeting] 16:13:07 rrsagent, generate minutes 16:13:07 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/20-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:15:32 ScribeOptions: -noEmbedDiagnostics -final 16:15:33 rrsagent, generate minutes 16:15:33 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/20-tt-minutes.html nigel 17:02:08 -Thierry 17:02:10 SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has ended 17:02:10 Attendees were +1.720.897.aaaa, glenn, nigel, Thierry, pal, Mike 17:19:57 Zakim has left #tt 17:57:19 tmichel has joined #tt