21:18:44 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #indie-ui
21:18:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/11/19-indie-ui-irc
21:18:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
21:18:46 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #indie-ui
21:18:48 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be INDIE
21:18:48 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_Indie()5:00PM scheduled to start in 42 minutes
21:18:49 <trackbot> Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference
21:18:49 <trackbot> Date: 19 November 2014
21:19:08 <janina> agenda?
21:20:00 <janina> Chair:  Janina_Sajka
21:20:00 <janina> agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes
21:20:00 <janina> agenda+ Telecon Rescheduling Conversation
21:20:00 <janina> agenda+ Checkin with Web Apps' Editing TF [See below]
21:20:00 <janina> agenda+ Editor's Report
21:20:02 <janina> agenda+ Requirements & Use Cases Progress
21:20:05 <janina> agenda+ Testing Conversation; Polyfills
21:20:07 <janina> agenda+ User Context Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/3
21:20:10 <janina> agenda+ Events Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/2
21:20:13 <janina> agenda+  Other Business
21:20:16 <janina> agenda+ Be Done
21:51:36 <Zakim> WAI_Indie()5:00PM has now started
21:51:43 <Zakim> +??P0
21:51:48 <janina> zakim, ??P0 is me
21:51:48 <Zakim> +janina; got it
21:51:56 <janina> zakim, take up item 1
21:51:56 <Zakim> agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
21:56:07 <kurosawa> kurosawa has joined #indie-ui
21:57:58 <janina> OK, Takashi, thanks!
21:59:05 <Zakim> +Joanmarie_Diggs
22:00:26 <joanie> Zakim, I am Joanmarie_Diggs
22:00:26 <Zakim> ok, joanie, I now associate you with Joanmarie_Diggs
22:02:47 <Zakim> +??P2
22:03:17 <kurosawa> ??P2 is me
22:03:24 <kurosawa> zakim, ??P2 is me
22:03:24 <Zakim> +kurosawa; got it
22:07:16 <kurosawa> kurosawa has joined #indie-ui
22:08:13 <Zakim> + +1.609.906.aaaa
22:17:09 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #indie-ui
22:17:49 <Zakim> +Katie_Haritos-Shea
22:18:53 <janina> regrets: Rich, Michael
22:18:58 <joanie> scribenick: joanie
22:19:13 <joanie> JS: Items for the good of the order?
22:19:22 <Ryladog_> Ryladog_ has joined #indie-ui
22:19:24 <joanie> JS: I have one item which is our next meetings.
22:19:55 <joanie> JS: I propose that we meet again on 3 December, then 17 December.
22:20:06 <joanie> JS: Then it's Christmas and New Years.
22:20:11 <janina> Next meetings on December 3 & 17
22:20:11 <janina> No meeting December 31
22:20:11 <janina> Resume January 7
22:20:15 <janina> 
22:20:24 <joanie> JS: We resume 7 January.
22:20:44 <joanie> JW: Unless someone on list has an issue, I think we should go with that.
22:20:51 <joanie> TK: Agreed
22:21:03 <joanie> JS: Done
22:21:09 <joanie> Zakim, next item
22:21:09 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Telecon Rescheduling Conversation" taken up [from janina]
22:21:24 <joanie> Zakim, close item 2
22:21:24 <Zakim> agendum 2, Telecon Rescheduling Conversation, closed
22:21:25 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:21:25 <Zakim> 3. Checkin with Web Apps' Editing TF [from See below via janina]
22:21:27 <joanie> Zakim, next item
22:21:27 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Checkin with Web Apps' Editing TF" taken up [from See below]
22:21:33 <joanie> JS: Ben is not here.
22:21:43 <joanie> JS: However, I'd like to hilight 2 things from the list:
22:21:56 <joanie> JS: Ben started a discussion and there were some responses, but not fully resolved.
22:22:01 <janina> Naming conversation ended at:
22:22:02 <janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2014Nov/0028.html
22:22:09 <joanie> JS: Naming.... (see above link)
22:22:20 <joanie> JS: It would be good if we could draw some conclusion.
22:22:30 <joanie> JS: It's easier to get it right.
22:22:40 <joanie> JW: It's going to appear in multiple specifications.
22:22:54 <joanie> JW: Agreement is more important(ish) than what the decision is.
22:23:08 <joanie> JW: Ben also posted a useful note about the various related threads:
22:23:14 <janina> Related group work pointers are provided in:
22:23:15 <janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2014Nov/0035.html
22:23:24 <joanie> s/JW: Ben/JS: Ben/
22:23:40 <joanie> JS: I just put the URI for the various discussions in (above)
22:23:53 <joanie> JS: In talking with Michael, maybe we don't want a combined list.
22:24:03 <joanie> JS: For instance, there's the Editing discussions.
22:25:07 <joanie> JS: We have no disagreements over who owns what.
22:25:29 <joanie> JS: Maybe IndieUI will launch ideas that gets picked up in other specs. There's nothing wrong with that.
22:25:34 <joanie> Zakim, next item
22:25:34 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Editor's Report" taken up [from janina]
22:25:47 <joanie> JS: James is not here so we don't have a report.
22:26:01 <joanie> JW: It doesn't show anything interesting.
22:26:16 <joanie> JW: I'm still setting up my Linux environment. Then I'll have all my tools set up.
22:26:51 <joanie> Zakim, next item
22:26:51 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Requirements & Use Cases Progress" taken up [from janina]
22:27:10 <joanie> JS: I think this is the overall topic we were on when informally chatting.
22:27:28 <joanie> JS: The question about how far we want to take this in 1.0 versus 1.1 versus X.next
22:27:48 <joanie> JS: My guess is, most of the people here at least would like to see extensibility supported.
22:27:57 <joanie> JS: And agree to a fairly limited 1.0.
22:28:02 <joanie> Katie: Yes
22:28:12 <joanie> JS: I think I heard that from Jason.
22:28:24 <joanie> JS: If we can find out how that extensibility works....
22:28:42 <joanie> JW: I have some concerns about criteria for what's included in 1.0.
22:29:00 <joanie> JW: There's variation in systems (OS and platforms).
22:29:20 <joanie> JS: Let's talk about this because I don't think we'd say it would need to be things that are uniformly supported.
22:29:31 <joanie> JS: Example: Desktops support high contrast modes.
22:29:47 <joanie> JS: But at least in Android, there doesn't seem to be such a thing as a plain background.
22:30:08 <joanie> JS: Seems to me we'd draw the line in the sand. You have to provide a plain background.
22:30:30 <joanie> JS: So there's a 2nd criteria that informs the most.
22:30:46 <joanie> JS: Some variety in how it's implemented is ok, as long as it's easy to add.
22:31:11 <joanie> JW: So what were concerned with at the very early stage is having it work it's way into the user agent.
22:31:40 <joanie> JW: You could then add to the common attributes in subseqeuent versions.
22:32:13 <joanie> s/what were/what we're/
22:32:29 <joanie> JS: I don't know what other difficult points we have for getting 1.0 out.
22:32:36 <joanie> JS: But I think that principle should help.
22:32:45 <joanie> JS: Even as we figure out how to support extensibility.
22:33:00 <joanie> JW: I've been talking to people about it, and that does become a common concern.
22:33:12 <joanie> JS: I don't have any more specifically for today.
22:33:37 <joanie> JS: We should probably ask on list regarding this summary that we just articulated if this is general agreement.
22:34:23 <joanie> JW: Thinking about the Events, is it still true that the big outstanding issue is the one related to slider controls
22:35:05 <joanie> JW: Is this what everyone thinks needs to be sorted out, or was that resolved at TPAC?
22:35:14 <joanie> JS: I don't think it was.
22:35:25 <joanie> JS: I'd like to hear some proposals from the engineers.
22:35:38 <joanie> JW: I could work on it, but I don't know what the issues are.
22:35:49 <joanie> JS: If you want to throw out a straw proposal....
22:36:05 <joanie> JW: We need to get on top of what the issues with it were. Then maybe we can come up with something.
22:36:19 <joanie> JW: Should we do something, maybe on the agenda for next time?
22:36:33 <joanie> JS: I'll add it to the agenda for next time.
22:36:44 <joanie> JW: Checking to see what the state of it is would help.
22:36:57 <joanie> JS: It seems to me we need to tackle that.
22:37:06 <joanie> JS: It's certainly an issue on mobile devices right now.
22:37:44 <joanie> JW: I think it's fairly similar between Android and iOS.
22:37:56 <joanie> JW: The issue is always going to be how do you define the generic events for this.
22:38:05 <joanie> JW: It's not just sliders. It could be a circular control.
22:38:15 <joanie> JW: Example: An imaginary clock hand.
22:38:24 <joanie> JS: As Android has.
22:38:32 <joanie> JW: You want generic events to describe the action.
22:38:51 <joanie> JW: You have the component that the person is manipulating, along with the bigger control that contains it.
22:39:06 <joanie> JW: The generic/intentional event needs to be generated.
22:39:18 <joanie> JS: Based on who's here, I think we've done what we can today.
22:39:39 <joanie> Zakim, aaaa is Jason_White
22:39:39 <Zakim> +Jason_White; got it
22:39:56 <joanie> JS: Happy Turkey Day.
22:40:10 <joanie> Katie: And welcome to Jason to your first one in the U.S.
22:40:51 <joanie> RRSAgent, make minutes
22:40:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/19-indie-ui-minutes.html joanie
22:41:39 <Zakim> -Katie_Haritos-Shea
22:42:04 <Zakim> -Jason_White
22:42:44 <joanie> Zakim, part
22:42:44 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were janina, Joanmarie_Diggs, kurosawa, +1.609.906.aaaa, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Jason_White
22:42:44 <Zakim> Zakim has left #indie-ui
22:42:47 <joanie> RRSAgent, stop