15:32:56 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
15:32:56 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-wai-wcag-irc
15:32:58 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:33:00 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
15:33:00 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 27 minutes
15:33:01 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
15:33:02 <trackbot> Date: 18 November 2014
15:33:27 <Kenny> agenda+ Streamlining WG workflow proposal
15:33:45 <Kenny> agenda+  Changes to GL list
15:34:07 <Kenny> agenda+  Commenting process using GitHub
15:34:26 <Kenny> agenda+  Mobile TF update
15:34:40 <Kenny> agenda+  Survey analysis discussion
15:35:03 <Kenny> agenda+  New technique: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Failure_of_Success_Criterion_1.3.1_due_to_marking_up_prices_a_where_the_decimal_is_not_shown_but_the_visual_presentation_indicates_the_need_for_a_decimal
15:35:58 <Kenny> Chair: Joshue
15:37:42 <Kenny> regrets+ Christophe_strobbe, Kathy Wahlbin, Mike_Elledge, Alistair_Garrison, Bailey_Bruce
15:38:06 <Kenny> zakim, agenda?
15:38:06 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
15:38:07 <Zakim> 1. Streamlining WG workflow proposal [from Kenny]
15:38:07 <Zakim> 2. Changes to GL list [from Kenny]
15:38:07 <Zakim> 3. Commenting process using GitHub [from Kenny]
15:38:07 <Zakim> 4. Mobile TF update [from Kenny]
15:38:07 <Zakim> 5. Survey analysis discussion [from Kenny]
15:38:07 <Zakim> 6. New technique: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Failure_of_Success_Criterion_1.3.1_due_to_marking_up_prices_a_where_the_decimal_is_not_shown_but_the_visual_presentation_indicates_
15:38:08 <Zakim> ... the_need_for_a_decimal [from Kenny]
15:40:25 <botie> botie has joined #wai-wcag
15:41:40 <Kenny> botie, inform AWK "agenda on Nov.18 have loaded by kenny"
15:41:40 <botie> will do
15:50:37 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has now started
15:50:39 <AWK> AWK has joined #wai-wcag
15:50:39 <botie> AWK, at 2014-11-18 15:41 UTC, Kenny said: "agenda on Nov.18 have loaded by kenny"
15:50:44 <Zakim> + +1.617.766.aaaa
15:50:53 <AWK> Zakim, aaaa is AWK
15:50:53 <Zakim> +AWK; got it
15:50:59 <AWK> Zakim, agenda?
15:50:59 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
15:51:01 <Zakim> 1. Streamlining WG workflow proposal [from Kenny]
15:51:01 <Zakim> 2. Changes to GL list [from Kenny]
15:51:01 <Zakim> 3. Commenting process using GitHub [from Kenny]
15:51:01 <Zakim> 4. Mobile TF update [from Kenny]
15:51:01 <Zakim> 5. Survey analysis discussion [from Kenny]
15:51:03 <Zakim> 6. New technique: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Failure_of_Success_Criterion_1.3.1_due_to_marking_up_prices_a_where_the_decimal_is_not_shown_but_the_visual_presentation_indicates_
15:51:03 <Zakim> ... the_need_for_a_decimal [from Kenny]
15:52:39 <AWK> Chair: AWK
15:57:45 <AWK> botie, help?
15:58:09 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the call
15:58:09 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the call', AWK
15:58:14 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the call?
15:58:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see AWK
15:58:57 <David> David has joined #wai-wcag
15:59:22 <Zakim> +??P17
16:00:01 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #wai-wcag
16:00:25 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
16:00:30 <yatil> zakim, call EricE-Skype
16:00:30 <Zakim> ok, yatil; the call is being made
16:00:31 <Zakim> +EricE
16:00:37 <Zakim> + +1.703.637.aabb
16:00:45 <jon_avila> zakim, I am aabb
16:00:46 <Zakim> +jon_avila; got it
16:00:50 <yatil> zakim, nick yatil is EricE
16:00:50 <Zakim> ok, yatil, I now associate you with EricE
16:00:52 <yatil> zakim, mute me
16:00:52 <Zakim> EricE should now be muted
16:01:04 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:01:09 <Kenny> zakim,call kenny-mobile
16:01:09 <Zakim> ok, Kenny; the call is being made
16:01:10 <Joshue> zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
16:01:10 <Zakim> +Kenny
16:01:10 <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
16:01:21 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the call?
16:01:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see AWK, Michael_Cooper, David_MacDonald, EricE (muted), jon_avila, Joshue, Kenny (muted)
16:01:40 <Kenny> zakim, mute me
16:01:40 <Zakim> Kenny should now be muted
16:04:25 <Loretta> Loretta has joined #wai-wcag
16:04:36 <jon_avila> Many of the conversations are moving from lists to twitter.
16:04:37 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
16:04:49 <jon_avila> I most read by hash tag like #a11y
16:05:02 <Zakim> +Marc_Johlic
16:05:22 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:05:29 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the call?
16:05:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see AWK, Michael_Cooper, David_MacDonald, EricE (muted), jon_avila, Joshue, Kenny (muted), Marc_Johlic, [IPcaller]
16:05:39 <Loretta> zaki IPcaller is Loretta
16:06:04 <jon_avila> That's Zakim's nickname
16:06:17 <Zakim> -EricE
16:06:18 <Loretta> zakim, IPcaller is Loretta
16:06:19 <Zakim> +Loretta; got it
16:06:25 <Zakim> +Katie_Haritos-Shea
16:06:27 <yatil> zakim, call EricE-Skype
16:06:28 <Zakim> ok, yatil; the call is being made
16:06:28 <AWK> Zakim,
16:06:28 <Zakim> I don't understand '', AWK
16:06:28 <Zakim> +EricE
16:06:40 <jon_avila> I can scribe
16:06:47 <yatil> zakim, nick yatil is EricE
16:06:47 <Zakim> ok, yatil, I now associate you with EricE
16:06:50 <yatil> zakim, mute me
16:06:50 <Zakim> EricE should now be muted
16:07:10 <jon_avila> scribe: jon_avila
16:07:21 <Joshue> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
16:07:48 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
16:07:48 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:08:02 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2014OctDec/0106.html
16:08:13 <AWK> ZAkim, take up item 1
16:08:13 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Streamlining WG workflow proposal" taken up [from Kenny]
16:08:55 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #wai-wcag
16:08:59 <jon_avila> awk: Settlement announced between USDOJ and Peapod -- requires to them to get up to WCAG Level AA
16:09:02 <yatil> s/zaki IPcaller is Loretta//
16:09:15 <yatil> s/That's Zakim's nickname//
16:09:54 <jon_avila> zakim, regrets Bruce Bailey
16:09:54 <Zakim> I don't understand 'regrets Bruce Bailey', jon_avila
16:10:23 <MoeKraft> MoeKraft has joined #wai-wcag
16:10:29 <jon_avila> awk: talked about improve groups process at TPAC.  How to improve tasks that we spent a lot of time on.
16:10:51 <jon_avila> awk: We go through different levels of debate discussing public comments and new techniques.
16:10:55 <AWK> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Process
16:11:00 <Zakim> +MoeKraft
16:11:46 <jon_avila> awk: we have a process document that we'd like people to take a look at.  This is a draft.  Reflects what we talked about.
16:12:52 <Joshue> regrets+ Alistair Garrison, Bruce Bailey, Mike Elledge, Kathy Wahlbin, Christophe Strobbe,
16:13:10 <jon_avila> awk: Process for dealng with comments is hard.  Even with tools that chairs have it can be challenging.  We talked about change the way we are doing things.
16:13:31 <jon_avila> awk: Talked about Bugzilla and also discussed github.
16:13:52 <jon_avila> awk: This document will define what the process is rather than what we are changing.
16:15:35 <jon_avila> awk: The process for comments would be received as email or github.  Currently we use tracker which has a few different capabilities - action and issues and stories comments.
16:16:23 <Joshue> q?
16:16:28 <MichaelC> q+
16:16:29 <jon_avila> awk:  For spelling changes is missing commas or missing links changes will be made.  We need to balance what we will just do and what will be raised with the group -- i.e. what is editorial and what is not.
16:17:05 <jon_avila> awk: happy to discuss issues that people don't feel is editorial.  For non-editorial people in the group propose resolutions.
16:17:47 <jon_avila> awk: We would track comments through issue on github so it's like a threaded discussion.
16:17:48 <MichaelC> q-
16:18:40 <jon_avila> awk: drive toward consensus or determine we need a conference call to discuss.
16:19:16 <jon_avila> awk: survey could be created for discussion if needed.   One complete issue with closed and not will be sent to working group.
16:19:50 <MichaelC> ack me
16:20:54 <Joshue> q?
16:21:06 <jon_avila> awk: other vehicles include: mailing lists, email, conference, working group meeting, using IRC asynchronous, etc.
16:21:16 <David> +1 on one week... everybody is crazy busy
16:21:24 <jon_avila> awk: Any thoughts? Good, bad, etc.?
16:21:27 <Ryladog> q+
16:21:50 <jon_avila> lgr: worth a try -- reflects some of the conversation from the face to face
16:22:02 <AWK> ack ry
16:22:28 <jon_avila> Ryladog: likes week timeframe
16:22:57 <Joshue> q?
16:23:21 <AWK> Marc: likes the sound of the proposal
16:23:59 <jon_avila> lgr: make it possible for participation from a wider range of time zones
16:24:19 <AWK> David: fine with proposal
16:24:24 <Joshue> JA: Fine with me
16:24:25 <AWK> Jon_Avila: fine with me
16:24:31 <yatil> +1
16:24:44 <yatil> ack me
16:24:44 <MichaelC> q+ to ask what we do with telecons
16:25:44 <jon_avila> eric: Working in github is very nice.  One can concentrate on comments in one place.   Helpful to reference discussion from comments.  Concise view.
16:25:44 <AWK> Ack m
16:25:44 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to ask what we do with telecons
16:25:45 <yatil> zakim, mute me
16:25:45 <Zakim> EricE should now be muted
16:25:48 <Joshue> q+
16:26:43 <jon_avila> mc: Need to find way to archive comments.  Document doesn't say what we will do with our standing weekly call whether we will shorten it or change it from every week to every other two weeks.
16:27:30 <jon_avila> awk: Shortened schedule might make sense if we are just reviewing public comments.  Other time we may have other activities.
16:28:33 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
16:28:34 <jon_avila> mc: We don't need to change the reservation on the conference bridge -- but we could shorten the call to a hour and later re-evaluate down the road.
16:28:48 <David> q+
16:28:57 <jon_avila> mc: Can then evaluate whether we need to go to a different schedule.
16:29:19 <AWK> ack d
16:29:44 <Ryladog> +1 to David
16:29:45 <AWK> ack josh
16:29:47 <Joshue> ack me
16:29:53 <jon_avila> david: thinks we will need 1.5 hours per week
16:30:28 <MichaelC> q+ to say I think the point of this process is to reduce (though not elimninate) dependence on telecons
16:30:38 <jon_avila> jo: Hope changes will provide flexibility for people in their situations.  Could do bi-weekly calls to test asynchronous situation.
16:31:23 <MichaelC> q+ to say keeping things moving
16:31:28 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
16:31:28 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:31:29 <MichaelC> ack me
16:31:29 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say I think the point of this process is to reduce (though not elimninate) dependence on telecons and to say keeping things moving
16:31:33 <jon_avila> jo: could have extra calls as needed.  But would like to try other channels to see how it goes.
16:32:34 <jon_avila> mc: Teleconferences do function as a due date and groups that have them every other week can work have a fast.  We do need to solve the problem of weekly due dates
16:32:59 <jon_avila> awk: Two functioning proposals - hour every week or hour and a half every other week.
16:33:11 <jon_avila> mc: Like to try hour every week and then evaluate.  Less of a shock to the system.
16:33:18 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
16:33:43 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
16:33:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
16:33:47 <jon_avila> awk: If we are month into trying it and then we have a big piece of work then we might have to change.
16:34:22 <Joshue> q+
16:34:34 <jon_avila> awk: meetings expand to fill their container.  I'm sure we can fill up two hours.  It may mean that we need to more aggressively moderate debates and shift discuss to asynch
16:35:02 <David> +1 weekly
16:35:08 <jon_avila> awk: A meeting that happens every week is on my calendar and I know when it will happen.
16:35:23 <Joshue> +1 to 11 for me definitely
16:35:37 <jon_avila> awk: Is everyone acceptable to try the hour long meeting each week.  What time 11 or 11:30 ET?
16:35:46 <Joshue> ack me
16:35:56 <yatil> +1 weekly, also +1 for start at 11 ET
16:36:08 <jamesn> -1 for 11ET
16:36:30 <Kenny> +1 for 11ET
16:36:36 <jon_avila> jo: Happy enough with Michael's idea.  There are also task force people who server also on WCAG WG.
16:36:56 <jamesn> it is very unfriendly to west coast with kids
16:37:40 <jon_avila> jo: hear from James that 8 PT doesn't work for him.
16:38:33 <jon_avila> james: west coast participation could be affected by time
16:39:29 <jon_avila> james: concern that asynchronous comments might get glossed over in meeting
16:39:49 <jon_avila> jo: all comments from different channels will be taken seriously
16:40:09 <jon_avila> jo: challenge is to bring asynch comment to conclusion
16:40:48 <jon_avila> mc: Someone makes call that consensus has been reached -- that perhaps if often a chair -- and then creates proposal and pushes it through
16:41:24 <jon_avila> awk: Desire to have improved level of engagement from people.  James comment about asynch comment is important.
16:42:04 <jon_avila> awk: Trying to measure engagement
16:42:39 <jon_avila> mc: Can make arrangements to discuss during certain time in meeting - e.g. at the end of the meeting to accommodate people who can't be on the call during the given time.
16:43:30 <jon_avila> james: Sometimes a person may comment on survey that something isn't ready but then in WG call people amend and then determine it ready and vote on it.
16:44:14 <jon_avila> mc: other groups have consensus call after teleconference consensus.  Some never allow consensus of people only present at that time.
16:44:16 <AWK> ACTION: AWK to add concept of CfC post an agreement in a meeting to the new process proposal
16:44:16 <trackbot> Created ACTION-298 - Add concept of cfc post an agreement in a meeting to the new process proposal [on Andrew Kirkpatrick - due 2014-11-25].
16:44:27 <jon_avila> jo: We need a validate loop for consensus.   Good point, thanks for your input James.
16:45:01 <David> q+
16:45:07 <jon_avila> awk: Concern over entering infinite loop.   We'll need to gauge this -- it's only fair to make sure everyone has their say.
16:45:11 <AWK> ack d
16:47:09 <Joshue> q+
16:47:17 <jon_avila> awk: If person makes comments it will be tracked in github.  If you have an idea you can also use working group list.  If people think it's an issue then it can be added to github.
16:48:56 <jon_avila> awk: It's possible that we might call for consensus for something that was only discussed on list.  We will refine process as time goes on.
16:49:26 <jon_avila> david: has about 15 issues in tracker about some things such as maps that we don't discuss.  Number of things that we need to discuss and make a strategy.
16:49:35 <Joshue> ack me
16:49:48 <jon_avila> david: Flurry for a few days but then a week later it will be buried and there is no tracking to bring it back up.  Where would we do that without the issue tracker?
16:51:10 <jon_avila> jo: At this stage we won't retired our tracker system at the moment.
16:51:55 <jon_avila> mc: There is a tool named tracker represented by IRC as trackbot.  Then there is the tracker for storing public comments.  And then there is github issues which has something similar to tracker.
16:52:22 <jon_avila> mc: Understand that the comments tracker would be retired and everything would be handled in github.
16:53:00 <jon_avila> mc: Tool named tracker have had different opinions of what to do about that.  it has some nice features such as IRC integrate.   So we will likely have a balance between two tools for a while.
16:53:30 <jon_avila> mc: May want to close issue in tracker over time and add new ones to github.
16:54:51 <MichaelC> q+ to note Tracker has mailing list integration; but GitHub issues are the mailing list...
16:55:23 <jon_avila> awk: There are some topics we don't know what to do with.  e.g. your example about maps.  We need to decide as a group to determine whether we need techniques around x or y or not
16:55:45 <jon_avila> awk: It may be only a person is interested and that person would then put forward a proposal for that.  Then it could be raised in a different way.
16:56:27 <jon_avila> awk: not all discussions on list will be conclude don list or taken up on a call.
16:56:46 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
16:56:46 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:57:03 <jon_avila> david: perhaps list is indicator of whether topic is something WG would take up or not if there is interested.
16:57:42 <jon_avila> mc: If group doesn't take up discuss there may not be interested -- but worth tracking idea even if we are going to discuss it right now.
16:58:00 <jon_avila> mc: We have to assume that people will actively follow the list.
16:58:07 <MichaelC> q-
16:58:21 <Sailesh> Sailesh has joined #wai-wcag
16:59:01 <jon_avila> awk: Logical time frame for github would coincide with next release of comments.  That would January.  That would give us a month of transition time.  This would help us clarify the edges around the process.
16:59:42 <jon_avila> awk: One consequence of this -- you will need a free github account to receive notification on issues. WG members would need this to be connected the conversation.
16:59:43 <Zakim> + +1.703.825.aacc
17:00:17 <jon_avila> *could we subscribe the group list?
17:01:00 <jon_avila> awk: You can also view it at the end -- but we want engagement throughout so we don't have people jump in right at the end because people weren't following the discussion on github.
17:01:35 <Joshue> q?
17:02:20 <jon_avila> awk: investigate would we want or could we subscribe the WG list to github
17:02:39 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
17:02:39 <Zakim> Joshue was already muted, Joshue
17:03:08 <Joshue> right, everything would have to tracked
17:03:46 <AWK> zakim, agenda?
17:03:46 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
17:03:47 <Zakim> 1. Streamlining WG workflow proposal [from Kenny]
17:03:47 <Zakim> 2. Changes to GL list [from Kenny]
17:03:47 <Zakim> 3. Commenting process using GitHub [from Kenny]
17:03:47 <Zakim> 4. Mobile TF update [from Kenny]
17:03:47 <Zakim> 5. Survey analysis discussion [from Kenny]
17:03:47 <Zakim> 6. New technique: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Failure_of_Success_Criterion_1.3.1_due_to_marking_up_prices_a_where_the_decimal_is_not_shown_but_the_visual_presentation_indicates_
17:03:47 <Zakim> ... the_need_for_a_decimal [from Kenny]
17:03:50 <jon_avila> mc: subscribing list might cause fragmentation and confusion -- people should get free gibhut account
17:03:59 <jon_avila> awk: we will keep you posted on next steps
17:04:38 <AWK> zakim, close item 1
17:04:38 <Zakim> agendum 1, Streamlining WG workflow proposal, closed
17:04:39 <jon_avila> awk: possible other discussions for GL list to discuss later
17:04:40 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:04:40 <Zakim> 2. Changes to GL list [from Kenny]
17:04:47 <AWK> zakim, take up item 4
17:04:47 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Mobile TF update" taken up [from Kenny]
17:05:21 <yatil> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:05:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-wai-wcag-minutes.html yatil
17:05:49 <jon_avila> awk: Mobile TF is coming up with guidance around mobile and navigate collective understand of WG.  We've had some techniques accepted and rejects.  Some confusion in TF.
17:06:13 <jon_avila> awk: Right now mobile TF is shifted gears to focus on overarching document on mobile.  Name is not yet decided.
17:06:48 <jon_avila> awk: Three legs, mobile accessibility note -- it will relate to techniques that apply to mobile.  Technique may be derived from note.
17:07:19 <jon_avila> awk: we will end up with gap analysis of what is needed in WCAG to support mobile where techniques are required not just advisory.
17:07:28 <jon_avila> awk: Mobile TF is focusing on note first.
17:07:33 <Joshue> q?
17:07:35 <jon_avila> awk: any questions?
17:07:52 <jon_avila> david: Would it be here are the things to think about in mobile.
17:08:14 <jon_avila> awk: Endeavor to clarify that mobile is covered by WCAG and to counter the impression that it is not.
17:09:01 <jon_avila> awk: discuss somethings people will need to think about and what are special considerations and what is important to think about.  Less codey.  Couldn't say if it's free of code.
17:09:11 <jon_avila> david: Would the chairs be the editors?
17:09:13 <jon_avila> awk: yes
17:09:46 <AWK> zakim, take up item 6
17:09:46 <Zakim> agendum 6. "New technique: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Failure_of_Success_Criterion_1.3.1_due_to_marking_up_prices_a_where_the_decimal_is_not_shown_but_the_visual_presentation_i
17:09:50 <Zakim> ... ndicates_the_need_for_a_decimal" taken up [from Kenny]
17:10:10 <Joshue> ack me
17:10:37 <Kenny>  https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Failure_of_Success_Criterion_1.3.1_due_to_marking_up_prices_a_where_the_decimal_is_not_shown_but_the_visual_presentation_indicates_the_need_for_a_decimal
17:10:43 <jon_avila> awk: put this out to see if people agree with it.
17:10:45 <jon_avila> +1
17:10:47 <MichaelC> q+
17:10:55 <David> +1
17:11:00 <MichaelC> q+ to say this is more an example than a technique
17:11:02 <jon_avila> awk: This is a specific technique -- not generalized.
17:11:19 <David> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Processhttps://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Processm
17:11:38 <jon_avila> * ha ha
17:12:08 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
17:12:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-wai-wcag-minutes.html MichaelC
17:12:33 <jon_avila> awk:  You can use CSS for prices without punctuation like you see in grocery store
17:13:06 <jon_avila> awk: Example file is provided with proposed technique
17:13:15 <MichaelC> s/* ha ha//
17:13:20 <MichaelC> s/*could we subscribe the group list?//
17:13:50 <jon_avila> awk: could make edits and send it back through for a final form review.
17:13:53 <Joshue> q?
17:13:55 <Loretta> q+
17:14:06 <jon_avila> james: are there are other things that are similar that would push into the technique?
17:14:51 <jon_avila> lgr: Do all countries use same notation?  Some use comma, etc.
17:14:55 <yatil> q+ to say what about $4<sup>99</sup>?
17:15:01 <Loretta> ack me
17:15:03 <yatil> q+ to say Germany use commas
17:15:15 <jon_avila> jo: another example could use comma
17:15:26 <jon_avila> awk: Do the countries still call it a decimal?
17:15:33 <jon_avila> what about punctuation?
17:15:51 <jon_avila> james: Decimal mark should take of internationalization of it.
17:15:53 <yatil> +1 for decimal mark
17:15:55 <MichaelC> ack me
17:15:55 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say this is more an example than a technique
17:16:21 <jon_avila> mc: Thinks it's too specific to be a technique -
17:16:31 <jon_avila> lgr: this is a failure not a sufficient technique
17:16:46 <jon_avila> david: think it's ok to specific common failures
17:17:05 <MoeKraft> Decimal separator,
17:17:07 <MoeKraft> http://www.iso.org/schema/isosts/v1.0/doc/n-cdf0.html
17:17:58 <jon_avila> mc: some people think techniques are normative and we don't want to put too specific cases in as techniques when there are others that could go in makes this unbalanced.
17:18:04 <jon_avila> mc: want to emphasize examples more.
17:18:49 <yatil> q-
17:19:09 <jon_avila> awk: will have to look for relevant techniques
17:19:23 <AWK> Zakim, aacc is Sailesh
17:19:23 <Zakim> +Sailesh; got it
17:19:34 <Joshue> q?
17:19:48 <Joshue> ack +1.
17:19:53 <jon_avila> sailesh: agree with Mike in one way.  e.g. we talked about registered sign for alt.  But this is very common on the web.
17:20:31 <jon_avila> awk: tried to think of general case.  But wrote this up because it got more obscured by a collection of things.
17:21:09 <Joshue> zakim, agenda?
17:21:09 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
17:21:10 <Zakim> 2. Changes to GL list [from Kenny]
17:21:10 <Zakim> 3. Commenting process using GitHub [from Kenny]
17:21:10 <Zakim> 4. Mobile TF update [from Kenny]
17:21:10 <Zakim> 5. Survey analysis discussion [from Kenny]
17:21:10 <Zakim> 6. New technique: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Failure_of_Success_Criterion_1.3.1_due_to_marking_up_prices_a_where_the_decimal_is_not_shown_but_the_visual_presentation_indicates_
17:21:11 <Zakim> ... the_need_for_a_decimal [from Kenny]
17:21:29 <jon_avila> awk: hard to come up with tight failure that is well generalizable
17:22:25 <jon_avila> david: what about using CSS to inidcate changes relationships instead of native HTML
17:22:46 <AWK> This one is the opposite: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/F43.html
17:22:57 <jon_avila> what about F2?
17:23:28 <AWK> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/G117.html
17:23:44 <Joshue> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/F2.html
17:24:49 <jon_avila> awk: will take a crack at adding an example to f2
17:24:50 <AWK> ACTION: AWK to revise pricing technique into example for F2
17:24:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-299 - Revise pricing technique into example for f2 [on Andrew Kirkpatrick - due 2014-11-25].
17:25:33 <jon_avila> awk: was supposed to send survey analysis out to look for trends -- but did not send it out.
17:25:57 <jon_avila> ryladog: will you send link to the document?
17:26:00 <Joshue> q?
17:26:00 <jon_avila> awk: yes
17:26:21 <jamesn> regrets then
17:26:26 <jon_avila> awk: right now there is a meeting next week.
17:26:33 <jamesn> thanksgiving week etc....
17:26:48 <Zakim> -Katie_Haritos-Shea
17:27:24 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
17:27:26 <Zakim> -MoeKraft
17:27:27 <Zakim> -Joshue
17:27:27 <Zakim> -EricE
17:27:28 <Zakim> -AWK
17:27:28 <Zakim> -Sailesh
17:27:28 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
17:27:30 <Zakim> -Marc_Johlic
17:27:30 <Zakim> -Loretta
17:27:30 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
17:27:32 <AWK> Trackbot, end meeting
17:27:32 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:27:32 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.617.766.aaaa, AWK, Michael_Cooper, David_MacDonald, EricE, +1.703.637.aabb, jon_avila, Kenny, Joshue, Marc_Johlic, Loretta,
17:27:36 <Zakim> ... Katie_Haritos-Shea, MoeKraft, James_Nurthen, +1.703.825.aacc, Sailesh
17:27:36 <jon_avila> rrsagent, list regrets
17:27:36 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'list regrets', jon_avila.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:27:40 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:27:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-wai-wcag-minutes.html trackbot
17:27:41 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:27:41 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-wai-wcag-actions.rdf :
17:27:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AWK to add concept of CfC post an agreement in a meeting to the new process proposal [1]
17:27:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-wai-wcag-irc#T16-44-16
17:27:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AWK to revise pricing technique into example for F2 [2]
17:27:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-wai-wcag-irc#T17-24-50
17:27:47 <jon_avila> rrsagent help
17:27:47 <Kenny> zakim, drop me
17:27:47 <Zakim> Kenny is being disconnected
17:27:48 <Zakim> -Kenny