IRC log of hcls on 2014-11-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:57:58 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #hcls
15:57:58 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-irc
15:58:03 [dbooth]
rrsagent, make logs public
15:58:08 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #hcls
15:58:11 [dbooth]
zakim, this will be hcls
15:58:12 [Zakim]
ok, dbooth; I see SW_HCLS()11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
15:58:29 [Zakim]
SW_HCLS()11:00AM has now started
15:58:36 [Zakim]
+??P15
15:59:07 [Zakim]
+DBooth
15:59:23 [Marc_Twagirumukiza]
Marc_Twagirumukiza has joined #HCLS
15:59:27 [dbooth]
zakim, who is here?
15:59:29 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P15, DBooth
15:59:29 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Marc_Twagirumukiza, Zakim, RRSAgent, dbooth, TallTed, cloudcell, ericP
16:00:00 [Zakim]
-??P15
16:00:01 [Marc_Twagirumukiza]
Hi every one this is Marc Twagirumukiza from Agfa Healthcare
16:00:45 [Zakim]
+??P15
16:01:00 [dbooth]
Meeting: HL7 ITS RDF Subgroup / W3C HCLS
16:01:08 [Zakim]
+EricP
16:01:09 [Zakim]
+ +1.604.250.aaaa
16:01:18 [Zakim]
+ +1.678.999.aabb
16:01:19 [Zakim]
+ +1.410.624.aacc
16:01:50 [Zakim]
+??P29
16:02:03 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.528.aadd
16:02:04 [dbooth]
zakim, aaaa is PaulKnapp
16:02:05 [Zakim]
+PaulKnapp; got it
16:02:17 [Ingeborg]
Ingeborg has joined #HCLS
16:02:32 [ericP]
Zakim, who is speaking?
16:02:33 [Joshua_Phillips]
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16:02:34 [pknapp]
pknapp has joined #HCLS
16:02:36 [Zakim]
+ +1.703.983.aaee
16:02:43 [Zakim]
ericP, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DBooth (2%), ??P15 (94%), EricP (5%)
16:02:52 [ericP]
Zakim, mute ??P15
16:02:52 [Zakim]
??P15 should now be muted
16:02:55 [dbooth]
zakim, aadd is Marc_Twagirumukiza
16:02:55 [Zakim]
+Marc_Twagirumukiza; got it
16:03:19 [Joshua_Phillips]
zakim, who is here?
16:03:19 [Zakim]
On the phone I see DBooth, ??P15 (muted), EricP, PaulKnapp, +1.678.999.aabb, +1.410.624.aacc, ??P29, Marc_Twagirumukiza, +1.703.983.aaee
16:03:22 [Zakim]
On IRC I see pknapp, Joshua_Phillips, Ingeborg, Marc_Twagirumukiza, Zakim, RRSAgent, dbooth, TallTed, cloudcell, ericP
16:03:56 [ericP]
Zakim, aabb is BrianPech
16:03:57 [Zakim]
+BrianPech; got it
16:04:04 [Joshua_Phillips]
zakim, +1.410.624.aacc is Joshua_Phillips
16:04:04 [Zakim]
+Joshua_Phillips; got it
16:04:21 [dbooth]
zakim, who is here?
16:04:21 [Zakim]
On the phone I see DBooth, ??P15 (muted), EricP, PaulKnapp, BrianPech, Joshua_Phillips, ??P29, Marc_Twagirumukiza, +1.703.983.aaee
16:04:23 [Zakim]
On IRC I see pknapp, Joshua_Phillips, Ingeborg, Marc_Twagirumukiza, Zakim, RRSAgent, dbooth, TallTed, cloudcell, ericP
16:05:20 [Zakim]
+ +1.801.368.aaff
16:05:31 [Zakim]
- +1.703.983.aaee
16:05:55 [ericP]
Zakim, aaff is BrynRhodes
16:05:55 [Zakim]
+BrynRhodes; got it
16:06:03 [dbooth]
zakim, who is here?
16:06:03 [Zakim]
On the phone I see DBooth, ??P15 (muted), EricP, PaulKnapp, BrianPech, Joshua_Phillips, ??P29, Marc_Twagirumukiza, BrynRhodes
16:06:06 [Zakim]
On IRC I see pknapp, Joshua_Phillips, Ingeborg, Marc_Twagirumukiza, Zakim, RRSAgent, dbooth, TallTed, cloudcell, ericP
16:06:51 [Tony]
Tony has joined #HCLS
16:07:23 [Zakim]
+ +1.978.794.aagg
16:07:25 [Bryn_Rhodes]
Bryn_Rhodes has joined #HCLS
16:07:26 [Zakim]
+ +1.608.310.aahh
16:08:14 [ericP]
Zakim, aagg is Tony
16:08:14 [Zakim]
+Tony; got it
16:08:27 [dbooth]
zakim, aahh is Vassil
16:08:27 [Zakim]
+Vassil; got it
16:08:27 [ericP]
Zakim, aahh is Vassil
16:08:28 [Zakim]
sorry, ericP, I do not recognize a party named 'aahh'
16:08:58 [dbooth]
Topic: Minutes
16:09:00 [ericP]
Zakim, aahh is Vassil
16:09:00 [Zakim]
sorry, ericP, I do not recognize a party named 'aahh'
16:09:03 [dbooth]
http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=ITS_RDF_ConCall_Agenda#Agenda
16:09:44 [Zakim]
+ +1.801.949.aaii
16:09:49 [dbooth]
ITS page: http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=ITS_WG
16:10:04 [dbooth]
RDF subgroup: http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=ITS_RDF_ConCall_Agenda#Agenda
16:10:49 [dbooth]
Meeting minutes: http://www.w3.org/2014/11/04-hcls-minutes
16:11:02 [RobHausam]
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16:11:16 [ericP]
topic: previous minutes
16:11:22 [ericP]
scribenick: ericP
16:11:57 [Zakim]
-??P15
16:12:44 [ericP]
pknapp: PROPOSED to accept http://www.w3.org/2014/11/04-hcls-minutes as a record of the last meeting
16:13:03 [dbooth]
Topic: Logistics
16:13:03 [ericP]
APPROVED: accept http://www.w3.org/2014/11/04-hcls-minutes as a record of the last meeting
16:13:10 [ericP]
(unanimous)
16:13:37 [ericP]
dbooth: two wiki choices or this HL7/W3C joint work
16:13:53 [ericP]
... which shall we use for administative stuff?
16:14:24 [ericP]
... other work, e.g. FHIR ontology, can be on another wiki
16:14:28 [vassil]
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16:14:46 [Marc_Twagirumukiza]
I support HL7 wiki as well
16:14:53 [daniel]
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16:14:57 [ericP]
... but for the admin stuff i propose that HL7 host the adminstrative wiki
16:15:42 [Zakim]
+??P10
16:15:59 [ericP]
PROPOSED use the HL7 wiki as the administrative wiki
16:16:10 [ericP]
APPROVED: use the HL7 wiki as the administrative wiki
16:16:12 [Zakim]
-??P10
16:16:15 [ericP]
(unanimous)
16:16:29 [ericP]
-> https://www.w3.org/wiki/HCLS/ClinicalObservationsInteroperability COI Task Force
16:16:30 [bpech]
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16:17:05 [ericP]
ericP
16:17:22 [dbooth]
Topic: Followup on last week's discussion with Mark Musen
16:17:33 [Zakim]
+??P10
16:17:38 [ericP]
ericP: note the tech topics, e.g. FDA therapeutic areas, terminfo, etc.
16:17:55 [Zakim]
-??P10
16:17:58 [dbooth]
The recording: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d7a9bb6ppqgo9xn/AAApWheLsxRSyEKFa0Kr4qNna?dl=0
16:17:58 [ericP]
dbooth: any followup on Mark's presentation?
16:18:07 [dbooth]
Rough notes: http://www.w3.org/2014/11/11-hcls-minutes
16:18:40 [ericP]
Tony: following up with MarkM on the details hidden by the ICAT interface.
16:19:14 [ericP]
q+ to point out the snomed examples in the FDA TA work
16:19:17 [dbooth]
ACTION: Tony to find out more details about how iCat handles ICD-11 ont and report back
16:19:40 [Zakim]
+??P10
16:19:48 [ericP]
q?
16:19:53 [ericP]
ack me
16:19:53 [Zakim]
ericP, you wanted to point out the snomed examples in the FDA TA work
16:20:05 [ericP]
-> https://www.w3.org/wiki/File:Snomedct_extract_descriptive.ttl SNOMED example
16:21:00 [dbooth]
Eric: If you're digging into this, here's an example of SNOMED that I took, and found all of the examples of everything that they said about it -- level in the cell, test results, in range, out of range. All the entities that SNOMED teases apart. It would be great to take the same slice of ICD-11
16:21:06 [vassil_]
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16:21:07 [daniel]
There is a new way of representing lab in SNOMED CT as of recently
16:21:34 [dbooth]
... Not a legit SNOMED extraction though, because I changed the nubmers to human readable URLs.
16:21:50 [Zakim]
+Kerstin_Forsberg
16:22:04 [ericP]
Tony: i've got the 110M SNOMED snapshot from earlier this year.
16:22:20 [dbooth]
David: Might be a good use case!
16:22:54 [Kerstin_Forsberg]
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16:23:07 [ericP]
ericP: you shouldn't have to dig back into the 110M 'cause i already did that
16:23:23 [ericP]
Tony: still waiting for access details from MarcM
16:23:47 [ericP]
... I've been looking at the bits that i've already dug into, e.g. allergies to bee stings
16:24:07 [daniel]
Here's an alpha version of new lab content
16:24:10 [Marc_Twagirumukiza]
...just to disambiguate it's Mark
16:24:10 [daniel]
Daniel Karlsson
16:24:16 [daniel]
https://csfe.aceworkspace.net/sf/go/doc10215?nav=1
16:24:38 [ericP]
daniel: there's a new style for SNOMED
16:24:40 [RobHausam_]
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16:25:00 [ericP]
Tony: is there a style guide you can point to?
16:25:22 [ericP]
... once we dig down into the details of the ontologies, you're sucked in for 2 years
16:25:41 [daniel]
daniel.karlsson@liu.se
16:25:52 [dbooth]
Topic: Proposed work items
16:26:45 [ericP]
dbooth: we have lots of potential work items and limited resources
16:27:05 [ericP]
... we can persue multiple things but it will depend on the individual champions.
16:27:12 [dbooth]
Topic: FHIR ontology
16:27:37 [Marc_Twagirumukiza]
I would volunteer in the FHIR ontology, --- just as related work to what we did for SALUS project
16:27:44 [Marc_Twagirumukiza]
http://www.srdc.com.tr/projects/salus/blog/?p=342
16:27:46 [ericP]
dbooth: claude nanjo and ericP have worked on this. we should schedule reviews
16:28:11 [ericP]
Tony: we discussed this in the HCLS COI call
16:28:31 [ericP]
... the issues were what models for what use cases and how to build the ontology
16:29:09 [ericP]
dbooth: on one end of the spectrum there's "what ontology facilitates machine inference"
16:29:33 [ericP]
s/inference/transformation/
16:29:54 [ericP]
dbooth: on the other, "what ontology facilitates humen understanding"
16:30:15 [ericP]
Tony: there's also which supports SemWeb inference
16:30:30 [ericP]
... we may want to bring these together or maybe not
16:30:53 [ericP]
Marc_Twagirumukiza: reusable graphs need to be human-readable, machine-readable, etc.
16:31:21 [ericP]
... we did this for SALUS, "entities" were RDF graphs at the domain level. we could map it to other data.
16:31:38 [ericP]
... so hoping to contribute to this task
16:32:13 [dbooth]
Eric: I can present what Josh and I did.
16:32:39 [ericP]
dbooth: so you're stressing the convergence
16:32:47 [dbooth]
Claude's work attempted to be more human friendly.
16:33:04 [ericP]
ericP: i can present the stuff that Josh and I did
16:33:14 [Marc_Twagirumukiza]
Actually what can help there is not to 'just' ontologyze FHIR but to build up a partitioned reusable domain RDF graphs from the complexe information model
16:33:51 [Marc_Twagirumukiza]
those will be a key for converging and mapping as well
16:34:23 [ericP]
dbooth: claude did an ontology as well
16:34:35 [ericP]
Tony: i can present what i did at VA
16:35:51 [dbooth]
ACTION: Tony and Eric to work with each other and Claude to prepare comparison of FHIR ontology approaches
16:36:43 [dbooth]
My view is that the *most* important is an ontology that works well for machine processing -- instance data translation, inference, etc. That needs to be the basis. Then making it more human friendly -- or conceptually understandable -- would be nice to have.
16:37:05 [ericP]
dbooth: priority should be machine processing
16:37:17 [ericP]
Tony: agree. "reasoner-friendly"
16:37:25 [ericP]
... something we can use with existing tools
16:37:33 [dbooth]
Topic: ICD-11 and SNOMED
16:38:01 [ericP]
dbooth: we discussed this earlier.
16:38:35 [dbooth]
Topic: Bridging VA, Intermountain and other models
16:38:53 [ericP]
Tony: depends on what MarkM can give me. i have no access to the bits.
16:38:58 [dbooth]
David: Not a current work project. Create a wiki page for project ideas backlog?
16:39:03 [ericP]
dbooth: maybe we should create a backlog page
16:39:22 [ericP]
Tony: rep from VA would be rafael (not on this call)
16:39:58 [ericP]
Marc_Twagirumukiza: sometimes the backlog becomes a brainstorming place with no followup.
16:40:10 [dbooth]
ACTION: David to create a wiki page for backlog
16:40:14 [ericP]
... but very necessary, also needs an issue track
16:40:34 [dbooth]
Topic: Issue tracking
16:40:52 [ericP]
s/issue track/issue tracker/
16:41:56 [dbooth]
Eric: W3C Tracker is integrated with IRC
16:42:13 [ericP]
ericP: we can start with tracker, which will work with IRC and public-semweb-lifesci
16:42:14 [dbooth]
Topic: Use Cases
16:42:25 [dbooth]
ACTION: ericP to send pointers to existing wiki pages [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/04-hcls-minutes.html#action01]
16:42:44 [dbooth]
[DONE]
16:42:55 [dbooth]
(Eric already pointed to the W3C COI page)
16:43:27 [ericP]
dbooth: what use cases with what goals?
16:43:59 [dbooth]
Eric: Migration of CCDA to FHIR
16:44:25 [dbooth]
Eric: Utility on FHIR RDF that would motivate mapping of FHIR XML to FHIR RDF
16:44:52 [ericP]
dbooth: need different levels of use cases
16:45:11 [ericP]
... need one simple enough for a slide, e.g. BP
16:45:22 [ericP]
... it would be nice if they could be used across different purposes.
16:45:33 [dbooth]
Topic: PhUSE-FDA project (formerly CDISC2RDF)
16:46:51 [ericP]
Kerstin_Forsberg: know the CDISC2RDF. can work on this.
16:47:02 [ericP]
Ingeborg: i know SDTM quite well
16:47:10 [Kerstin_Forsberg]
kerstin.l.forsberg@astrazeneca.com
16:47:13 [BrianP]
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16:47:15 [Ingeborg]
ingeborgholt@gmail.com
16:47:20 [ericP]
q+ to ask how it integrates with FDA-TA
16:48:55 [dbooth]
ACTION: Kerstin and Ingeborg to prepare a status and future state ideas for PhUSE-FDA work
16:49:59 [dbooth]
Kerstin and Ingeborg have volunteered to champion the PhUSE-FDA work.
16:50:00 [ericP]
ericP: our use cases for FDA-TA were to:
16:50:42 [ericP]
... .. make different studies in the same therapeutic area compatible for safety and efficacy analysis
16:51:16 [ericP]
... .. make e.g. drugs in differnt TAs comparable for safety signals
16:51:23 [dbooth]
Topic: C-CDA RDF representations
16:52:26 [dbooth]
ACTION: Eric to establish/make a wiki page for C-CDA RDF representations work
16:52:32 [ericP]
dbooth: ericP is champion
16:52:45 [ericP]
Joshua_Phillips: i'd like to work on this.
16:53:21 [dbooth]
ACTION: Eric and Joshua to report on C-CDA RDF representations work plan
16:53:32 [dbooth]
Topic: High-level concept mapping to RDF (AR typeCodes, etc.)
16:54:01 [ericP]
Tony: this is kind of light-weight.
16:54:13 [ericP]
... "how do you represent the terminology?"
16:54:42 [ericP]
... from the top down, identify topics, e.g. transport mechanisms
16:55:06 [Kerstin_Forsberg]
FDA/PhUSE Semantic technology project's first delivery was "just" to represenet existing CDISC foundational standards in RDF. Not representing the actual clinical trial data (e.g. blood pressure). Hwoever, they are moving beyond that and I know there was a presentation from FRDA at CDISC Interchannge conference last week on representing CDASH (raw data such as blood pressure) in RDF.
16:55:37 [ericP]
... it's a style guide. a set of patterns.
16:55:44 [Zakim]
-BrynRhodes
16:56:21 [ericP]
-> https://www.w3.org/wiki/HCLS/ClinicalObservationsInteroperability/TerminologyExpressivity high-level terminology approaches
16:56:28 [Kerstin_Forsberg]
There is also a FDA/PhUSE subproject to reperesent analysis results data, e.g. avg. blood pressure for propulation reported in a study report
16:56:59 [ericP]
dbooth: if there's already a wiki, use it.
16:57:18 [dbooth]
David: I would caution that there can be so many different views on high level models, adoption/use would have to be voluntary. I would worry about being perceived as telling people how that they MUST do things. But best practices recommendations sound great.
16:57:37 [ericP]
-> https://www.w3.org/wiki/HCLS/ClinicalObservationsInteroperability/FDATherapeuticAreaOntologies#Coding_specificity terminology coding example
16:58:14 [ericP]
Tony: i'll list the topics. some may be black holes
16:58:30 [ericP]
RobHausam_: i'm interested.
16:58:32 [dbooth]
Rob Hausam
16:59:02 [dbooth]
ACTION: Tony and Rob to report their plan on High-level concept mapping to RDF work
16:59:37 [dbooth]
Topic: Other work proposed work items
16:59:48 [ericP]
RobHausam_: want to look at the interface between terminology and infor model
17:00:03 [Zakim]
-Kerstin_Forsberg
17:00:18 [dbooth]
Rob: Propose Term info work
17:00:40 [dbooth]
Eric: Charlie Mead and I created a wiki page on that
17:00:46 [daniel]
I'm in
17:01:45 [Zakim]
-PaulKnapp
17:02:38 [Zakim]
-Marc_Twagirumukiza
17:02:39 [Zakim]
-Joshua_Phillips
17:02:40 [Zakim]
-??P29
17:02:40 [Zakim]
-Tony
17:02:42 [Zakim]
-??P10
17:02:42 [Zakim]
-DBooth
17:02:49 [Zakim]
-BrianPech
17:02:50 [Zakim]
- +1.801.949.aaii
17:02:54 [ericP]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:02:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html ericP
17:03:02 [ericP]
RRSAgent, please make log world-readable
17:03:08 [dbooth]
ACTION: Tony and all to decide on a wiki for Term Info work
17:03:14 [dbooth]
ADJOURNED
17:03:24 [dbooth]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:03:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html dbooth
17:03:25 [Zakim]
-Vassil
17:03:48 [Zakim]
-EricP
17:03:49 [Zakim]
SW_HCLS()11:00AM has ended
17:03:49 [Zakim]
Attendees were DBooth, EricP, +1.604.250.aaaa, +1.678.999.aabb, +1.202.528.aadd, PaulKnapp, +1.703.983.aaee, Marc_Twagirumukiza, BrianPech, Joshua_Phillips, +1.801.368.aaff,
17:03:49 [Zakim]
... BrynRhodes, +1.978.794.aagg, +1.608.310.aahh, Tony, Vassil, +1.801.949.aaii, Kerstin_Forsberg
17:05:43 [dbooth]
Chair: David Booth (and Paul Knapp)
17:10:38 [dbooth]
Present: Brian_Pech Bryn_Rhodes David_Booth EricPrud'hommeaux Ingeborg Joshua_Phillips Kerstin_Forsberg Marc_Twagirumukiza Paul_Knapp Rob_Hausam Tony_Mallia Daniel_Karlsson Vassil
17:10:51 [dbooth]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:10:51 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html dbooth
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