14:59:54 RRSAgent has joined #tt 14:59:54 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-tt-irc 14:59:56 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:59:56 Zakim has joined #tt 14:59:58 Zakim, this will be TTML 14:59:58 ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute 14:59:59 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 14:59:59 Date: 13 November 2014 15:00:18 SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has now started 15:00:24 +pal 15:00:51 +nigel 15:01:04 atai has joined #tt 15:01:15 Present: pal, nigel, atai 15:01:22 Regrets: glenn, courtney 15:01:25 chair: nigel 15:01:28 tmichel has joined #tt 15:01:34 Present+ tmichel 15:01:37 tm has joined #tt 15:01:59 +Andreas 15:02:00 Frans has joined #tt 15:02:08 Present+ Frans 15:02:10 +Frans 15:03:27 +??P19 15:03:37 zakim, ??P19 is me 15:03:37 +tmichel; got it 15:05:24 scribeNick: nigel 15:05:34 Topic: This meeting 15:05:40 group: no other business 15:06:05 pal has joined #tt 15:07:36 nigel: Notes no meeting on 25th December and 1st January 15:08:22 tmichel: We have agreement to publish the FPWD of WebVTT; I'm still waiting on the announcement. 15:08:57 ... I publish the document in place, and then the web master adds the links, which is the publication process, as well 15:09:10 ... as making the announcement and putting on W3C home page. 15:09:32 Topic: IMSC 1 review comments 15:11:11 nigel: Our plan for today is to go through all the comments and if we can move them all to Resolved then send replies. 15:11:27 ... In order to do that we'll need to agree a response deadline for the commenter, which goes into the emails. 15:11:54 pal: I've had some comments from Andreas and Nigel, which I think are editorial only. I propose to edit them in place now. 15:12:20 pal: First one is a typo from nigel - double 'use'. 15:12:56 pal: For a future agenda, we should consider the general move to git instead of Mercurial, so when Glenn's present it 15:13:00 ... would be good to discuss that. 15:13:22 Frans: +1 to using git 15:14:10 pal: Another from Nigel: for LC-2977. You're proposing to add conformance language and use the term "normal rendering" 15:14:25 ... I'm concerned with using "normal rendering" which isn't defined. 15:15:28 ... SHALL vs NOT SHALL - I don't think that's needed but could be okay. 15:15:35 mike has joined #tt 15:16:02 nigel: The bigger point is that "no impact on presentation" could be misinterpreted as "no presentation" which isn't what we mean. 15:16:16 +Mike 15:16:17 jdsmith has joined #tt 15:16:19 pal: This was a response to Andreas's point - I'd actually prefer to remove the sentence altogether. 15:16:19 +jdsmith 15:16:29 Present+ Mike, jdsmith 15:18:09 andreas: From a practical point of view the text as written could be intepreted as requiring that forcedDisplay must be set to true for everything. 15:18:28 pal: That's only the case if displayForcedMode is true. 15:19:04 andreas: If you set the external parameter to true and none of the content has an applicable forcedDisplay attribute then 15:19:07 ... nothing is shown. 15:19:17 pal: That's right - by default displayForcedOnlyMode is false. 15:19:45 andreas: The practical implication is that authors might always set forcedDisplay to true. 15:20:13 mike: It's important to note the relevant external context here, in which a track may be selected and displayed or not displayed. 15:22:22 ... The forcedDisplayMode forces the deselected text content to play in specific circumstances. 15:22:37 nigel: We need to find an alternate form of words that addresses the editorial issue here. 15:23:09 pal: I'm happy to a) remove the last sentence or b) keep as it is but not c) use the term "normal rendering". 15:23:32 nigel: I'm not happy with leaving as is. 15:23:54 andreas: can we use something like "all other combinations ... do not change the computed presentation" or something like that? 15:24:17 pal: Glenn was adamant that this parameter should have no impact on other computed values - let's not introduce another problem. 15:26:07 nigel: How about removing the additional sentence and replacing "If the value of" in the previous sentence with "If, and only if, the value of" ... 15:26:44 andreas: Yes, that works. 15:26:54 pal: Okay, I've captured that. 15:27:07 https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/34314/WD-ttml-imsc1-20140930/2977 15:27:30 pal: The resolution text does not need to be changed because it points to the latest editor's draft. 15:27:53 pal: Next is LC-2973 15:27:59 https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/34314/WD-ttml-imsc1-20140930/2973 15:28:32 andreas: I like the solution in 6.2 but in 6.3 what we want to say here is that the namespace defined by W3C can only 15:28:52 ... be added to by W3C and no other entities. The last sentence says that all undefined names in these namespaces are 15:29:08 ... reserved for future standardisation by the W3C. I'm not sure if that's quite the right term. 15:29:15 pal: I copied exactly what was in TTML1. 15:29:39 andreas: Okay, if everyone understands the intended meaning then I'm fine with that. The only proposal is to add that 15:30:21 pal: I tried to do exactly what TTML1 already does so at least it's the same. 15:30:33 s/The proposal is to add that/ 15:30:57 pal: Next one is LC-2982 15:31:06 https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/34314/WD-ttml-imsc1-20140930/2982 15:33:03 andreas: I think we've already worked on this (forced display). I was just thinking about the impact on authors for using 15:33:20 ... the feature. I think it's correct as it says, and I have no further proposal for a change. 15:33:36 pal: The last one with a comment is LC-2978 15:33:43 https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/34314/WD-ttml-imsc1-20140930/2978 15:34:13 pal: I think Andreas suggested that the section 2 Document Conventions should be a direct link to the section in TTML1 15:34:17 ... rather than a general link? 15:34:22 andreas: Yes 15:34:53 pal: The challenge is I think the conventions aren't only in the TTML1 document conventions section. For example 15:35:31 ... the XML representation is in TTML1 §2.3, but the way styling attributes are specified is in the styling section inline. 15:35:40 ... So I wanted to cast a wider net rather than a narrower one. 15:36:55 nigel: I can't see anything defining a document convention in TTML 1 §8 Styling 15:37:23 pal: That's right - we're using the same convention as the styling attribute tables in TTML1 §8 but it isn't clearly 15:37:44 ... defined anywhere even in TTML1. I don't think we can link to only one place. 15:38:03 andreas: The main reason for the comment was about the XML representation, where the bold attribute format is 15:38:11 ... defined as 'required'. 15:38:27 pal: So we can add 'in particular see section 2.3 for the specification of the XML representation of elements'? 15:38:31 andreas: +1 15:39:24 pal: [edits in place with slight tweaks to the above wording for precision] 15:39:34 pal: I think that covers all the comments. 15:40:13 nigel: In that case I think we can set all the comments to one kind of Resolved or another. 15:40:24 pal: I don't know how to pick the different types of Resolved! 15:41:13 tmichel: They're resolved within the WG then we need the agreement from the commenter. 15:41:18 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/Guide2LCtracker/overview.html#Resolution 15:42:21 nigel: I think we have to choose the appropriate Resolved-[yes|partial|no] status on a comment by comment basis. 15:42:27 jdsmith: That makes sense to me. 15:42:59 tmichel: The three options will show on the final disposition document with green/yellow/red colour coding 15:43:29 pal: When the comments are resolved, how do we notify the commenter? 15:48:18 nigel: If it's okay I will decide on the status for each one, and then we can send the replies. 15:48:26 ... We need a feedback date though. 15:48:36 pal: I propose by next Thursday so we have the status by the next meeting. 15:49:07 tmichel: My notes do say 'if the comment meets the commenters request then we should put resolved-yes' etc. 15:49:31 ... so before sending the response we have to set this status. Then there's another box for the commenter to agree. 15:49:38 ... So there are two different levels. 15:49:43 nigel: I'll set the statuses. 15:50:12 nigel: When I've done that I'll send thierry an email asking for the replies to be reviewed and sent. 15:50:22 tmichel: That's fine, then I'll track the responses from the commenters. 15:50:36 nigel: And we'll set a reply-by date of Thursday 20th November. 15:51:04 pal: I've checked in the modification to the tip, incorporating all the changes from today. 15:51:23 action-349? 15:51:23 action-349 -- Nigel Megitt to Submit imsc 1 to itu-r working party 6b by 10th november -- due 2014-11-10 -- PENDINGREVIEW 15:51:23 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/349 15:51:37 close action-349 15:51:37 Closed action-349. 15:51:46 action-348? 15:51:46 action-348 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Thank dvb for input re lc-2983 -- due 2014-11-13 -- OPEN 15:51:46 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/348 15:52:36 pal: I suggest it is more efficient for you to do this Nigel. 15:53:27 nigel: I suggest we just use the Replies to Comments here with Resolution-yes. If you can do action-348 by adding the 15:53:37 ... thank you message to LC-2983 then I'll just go ahead with that. 15:53:42 pal: Thanks, I'll do that. 15:54:07 Topic: Note on TTML versions 15:54:12 action-344? 15:54:12 action-344 -- Cyril Concolato to Draft a wg note explaining the differences and relationships between the various versions of ttml -- due 2014-11-03 -- OPEN 15:54:12 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/344 15:54:35 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/5ee90ec0d897/ttml-status/index.html 15:54:56 nigel: Cyril has done this and checked it in. The group should review this and propose any edits needed. 15:55:03 close action-344 15:55:03 Closed action-344. 15:55:38 Topic: Change Proposals 15:56:26 nigel: I've sent a survey email out about CP25 and hope to raise it as an agenda item next week. 15:57:16 Action: nigel Set the status of the IMSC 1 Review comments 15:57:16 Created ACTION-350 - Set the status of the imsc 1 review comments [on Nigel Megitt - due 2014-11-20]. 15:57:41 -jdsmith 15:57:43 -Andreas 15:57:45 -pal 15:57:47 -Mike 15:57:51 nigel: Adjourns meeting. Thanks everyone - our next meeting is 1 hour, at the usual time next week. 15:57:57 -nigel 15:58:00 -Frans 15:58:27 rrsagent, make logs public 15:58:31 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:58:31 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:01:21 s/The only proposal is to add that/ 16:01:31 s|s/The proposal is to add that/| 16:07:04 rrsagent, generate minutes 16:07:04 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:08:10 ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 16:08:12 rrsagent, generate minutes 16:08:12 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-tt-minutes.html nigel 17:05:00 disconnecting the lone participant, tmichel, in SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM 17:05:02 SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has ended 17:05:02 Attendees were pal, nigel, Andreas, Frans, tmichel, Mike, jdsmith 17:29:21 Zakim has left #tt