IRC log of dap on 2014-11-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:27:28 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dap
14:27:28 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-dap-irc
14:27:30 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:27:30 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #dap
14:27:32 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be DAP
14:27:32 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 33 minutes
14:27:33 [trackbot]
Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference
14:27:33 [trackbot]
Date: 13 November 2014
14:27:49 [fjh_]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Oct/0033.html
14:27:59 [fjh_]
fjh_ has changed the topic to: dap 3279; agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Oct/0033.html
14:28:18 [fjh_]
Chair: Frederick_Hirsch
14:28:24 [fjh_]
Present+ Frederick_Hirsch
14:28:42 [fjh_]
Regrets+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
14:46:11 [anssik]
Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
14:46:53 [fjh_]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Nov/0014.html
14:46:58 [fjh_]
fjh_ has changed the topic to: dap 3279; agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Nov/0014.html
14:48:05 [Louay]
Louay has joined #dap
14:50:21 [Zakim]
UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
14:50:28 [Zakim]
+??P0
14:50:31 [anssik]
zakim, ??P0 is me
14:50:31 [Zakim]
+anssik; got it
14:52:14 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:52:23 [fjh_]
zakim, ipcaller is me
14:52:23 [Zakim]
+fjh_; got it
14:53:43 [Zakim]
+ +1.206.734.aaaa
14:54:36 [dom]
dom has joined #dap
14:55:06 [PaulBoyes]
PaulBoyes has joined #dap
14:55:17 [fjh_]
zakim, who is here?
14:55:17 [Zakim]
On the phone I see anssik, fjh_, +1.206.734.aaaa
14:55:18 [Zakim]
On IRC I see PaulBoyes, dom, Louay, Zakim, RRSAgent, mats, fjh_, anssik, fjh, mounir, slightlyoff, tobie, richt, Josh_Soref, trackbot
14:55:34 [fjh_]
zakim, aaaa is PaulBoyes
14:55:34 [Zakim]
+PaulBoyes; got it
14:55:45 [PaulBoyes]
Paul Boyes - Co-Chair Automotive BG
14:55:46 [gmandyam]
gmandyam has joined #dap
14:55:52 [dom]
Zakim, code?
14:55:52 [Zakim]
the conference code is 3279 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), dom
14:56:07 [Zakim]
+??P3
14:56:13 [dom]
Zakim, ??P3 is me
14:56:13 [Zakim]
+dom; got it
14:56:42 [rkawada]
rkawada has joined #dap
14:56:54 [mats]
Present+ Mats_Wichmann
14:57:20 [Zakim]
+gmandyam
14:57:28 [Zakim]
+??P5
14:57:45 [mats]
Zakim, ??P5 is mats
14:57:45 [Zakim]
+mats; got it
14:58:19 [Zakim]
-dom
14:58:26 [dom]
Zakim, call dom-mobile
14:58:26 [Zakim]
ok, dom; the call is being made
14:58:28 [Zakim]
+Dom
14:58:30 [tobie]
Present+ Tobie_Langel
14:58:45 [dom]
Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
14:58:53 [fjh_]
zakim, who is here?
14:58:53 [Zakim]
On the phone I see anssik, fjh_, PaulBoyes, gmandyam, mats, Dom (muted)
14:58:55 [Zakim]
On IRC I see rkawada, gmandyam, PaulBoyes, dom, Louay, Zakim, RRSAgent, mats, fjh_, anssik, fjh, mounir, slightlyoff, tobie, richt, Josh_Soref, trackbot
14:59:13 [dom]
Zakim, drop dom
14:59:13 [Zakim]
Dom is being disconnected
14:59:14 [Zakim]
-Dom
14:59:18 [dom]
Zakim, call dom-mobile
14:59:18 [Zakim]
ok, dom; the call is being made
14:59:20 [Zakim]
+Dom
15:00:09 [ted]
ted has joined #dap
15:00:17 [ted]
agenda?
15:00:20 [fjh_]
Regrets- Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
15:00:38 [fjh_]
Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
15:00:53 [fjh_]
zakim, who is here?
15:00:54 [Zakim]
On the phone I see anssik, fjh_, PaulBoyes, gmandyam, mats, Dom
15:00:54 [Zakim]
On IRC I see ted, rkawada, gmandyam, PaulBoyes, dom, Louay, Zakim, RRSAgent, mats, fjh_, anssik, fjh, mounir, slightlyoff, tobie, richt, Josh_Soref, trackbot
15:01:32 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:01:32 [Guest52]
Guest52 has joined #dap
15:01:50 [Zakim]
+ +44.207.184.aabb
15:01:53 [tobie]
Zakim, [ is me
15:01:53 [Zakim]
+tobie; got it
15:01:54 [fjh_]
zakim, ipcaller is tobie
15:01:55 [Zakim]
sorry, fjh_, I do not recognize a party named 'ipcaller'
15:02:09 [fjh_]
zakim, aabb is mounir
15:02:10 [Zakim]
+mounir; got it
15:02:26 [rwaldron]
Good morning and afternoon
15:02:31 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:02:37 [fjh_]
Present+ Mounir_Lamouri, Tobie_Langel
15:02:46 [richt]
Present+ Rich_Tibbett
15:02:53 [Zakim]
+??P16
15:02:55 [fjh_]
zakim, who is here?
15:02:55 [Zakim]
On the phone I see anssik, fjh_, PaulBoyes, gmandyam, mats, Dom, tobie, mounir, richt, ??P16
15:02:57 [Zakim]
On IRC I see rwaldron, ted, rkawada, gmandyam, PaulBoyes, dom, Louay, Zakim, RRSAgent, mats, fjh_, anssik, fjh, mounir, slightlyoff, tobie, richt, Josh_Soref, trackbot
15:02:57 [Zakim]
+??P17
15:03:05 [rkawada]
zakim, ??P16 is me
15:03:05 [Zakim]
I already had ??P16 as ted, rkawada
15:03:16 [dom]
Zakim, ??P17 is rkawada
15:03:16 [Zakim]
+rkawada; got it
15:03:27 [fjh_]
Present+ Ted_Guild
15:03:45 [Zakim]
+ +1.857.540.aacc
15:03:52 [dom]
scribenick: mounir
15:04:16 [fjh_]
zakim, where is 857?
15:04:16 [Zakim]
North American dialing code 1.857 is Massachusetts
15:04:36 [mounir]
mounir: I'm going to describe Tim's proposal
15:04:38 [dom]
Zakim, aacc is rwaldron
15:04:38 [Zakim]
+rwaldron; got it
15:04:43 [fjh_]
Present+ Rick_Waldron
15:05:13 [Claes]
Claes has joined #dap
15:05:20 [fjh_]
Topic: Welcome, agenda review, scribe selection, announcements, status updates
15:05:27 [fjh_]
wake lock status - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Nov/0010.html
15:05:28 [fjh_]
health care TPAC breakout summary - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Nov/0007.html
15:05:33 [Zakim]
-anssik
15:05:54 [Louay_]
Louay_ has joined #dap
15:06:18 [rwaldron]
Yes
15:06:18 [Zakim]
+??P0
15:06:20 [fjh_]
zakim, who is here?
15:06:20 [Zakim]
On the phone I see fjh_, PaulBoyes, gmandyam, mats, Dom, tobie, mounir, richt, ted (muted), rkawada, rwaldron, ??P0
15:06:22 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Louay_, Claes, rwaldron, ted, rkawada, gmandyam, PaulBoyes, dom, Louay, Zakim, RRSAgent, mats, fjh_, anssik, fjh, mounir, slightlyoff, tobie, richt, Josh_Soref,
15:06:23 [Zakim]
... trackbot
15:06:23 [anssik]
zakim, ??P0 is me
15:06:25 [Zakim]
+anssik; got it
15:06:29 [rwaldron]
I am
15:06:54 [mounir]
fjh_: we had a breakout session about sensors api
15:06:57 [mounir]
... there is a lot of interest
15:07:13 [mounir]
... there is an IG and a desire to work on this
15:07:27 [fjh_]
Topic: Battery API
15:07:34 [fjh_]
CfC for transitioning and publishing Battery API as CR completed successfully, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Nov/0012.html
15:07:38 [mounir]
fjh_: I want to summarize quickly about battery
15:07:44 [fjh_]
Topic: Vibration API
15:07:50 [fjh_]
CfC for transitioning and publishing Vibration API as PR completed successfully, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Nov/0013.html
15:07:53 [mounir]
... the CfC has concluded and Anssi will create a CR
15:08:03 [fjh_]
Topic: Minutes approval
15:08:06 [mounir]
... same for Vibration API
15:08:11 [fjh_]
Approve minutes from 2 October 2014
15:08:19 [fjh_]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Oct/att-0003/minutes-2014-10-02.html
15:08:24 [fjh_]
RESOLUTION: Minutes from 2 October 2014 are approved
15:08:36 [Zakim]
+ +49.303.463.aadd
15:08:37 [anssik]
Topic: Generic Sensor API: Context, problem statement, goals
15:09:17 [Zakim]
+ +46.7.03.79.aaee
15:09:28 [anssik]
https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2014/SessionIdeas#Generic_Sensor_API -> TPAC breakout session “Generic Sensor API”
15:09:30 [mounir]
anssik: we meant to talk about generic sensors at TPAC but many folks
15:09:37 [mounir]
... were not present at the TPAC meeting
15:09:48 [Claes]
Present+ Claes_Nilsson
15:10:00 [mounir]
anssik: we have numerous sensors exposed to the Web platform
15:10:04 [mounir]
... <listing a few>
15:10:05 [anssik]
A number of sensors are already exposed to the Web Platform (e.g. Geolocation, Device Orientation) and new sensors are on their way (e.g. Ambient Light).
15:10:26 [anssik]
Current status of sensor APIs on the Web Platform:
15:10:26 [anssik]
http://www.w3.org/Mobile/mobile-web-app-state/#Sensors_and_hardware_integration -> W3C Sensors Roadmap
15:10:33 [mounir]
anssik: a good summary can be found in a document dom has been working on
15:11:02 [anssik]
Also more experimental work in the pipeline, such as domain-specific sensors: automotive, health care
15:11:05 [mounir]
anssik: in addition, there is more experimental work in the pipeline
15:11:30 [mounir]
anssik: there is currently no established defined pattern
15:11:31 [anssik]
No established design pattern that is a particularly good fit for sensor APIs on the Web Platform
15:11:58 [anssik]
Current sensor APIs on the Web are high-level, abstract away details
15:12:57 [anssik]
The Node.js community has defined and implemented lower-level composable APIs for exposing new sensors
15:13:05 [dom]
Zakim, aaee is Claes
15:13:05 [Zakim]
+Claes; got it
15:13:07 [anssik]
https://github.com/rwaldron/johnny-five#sensors -> johnny-five Sensors
15:13:19 [anssik]
Problem statement
15:13:43 [anssik]
Proliferation of sensor APIs on the Web Platform + lack of applicable design patterns and best practices = suboptimal and inconsistent APIs
15:13:58 [anssik]
More specifically
15:14:06 [dom]
Zakim, aadd is @@_from_Fraunhofer
15:14:06 [Zakim]
+@@_from_Fraunhofer; got it
15:14:16 [anssik]
New use cases and requirements unaddressed by the current high-level APIs
15:14:18 [fjh_]
suboptimal in which way?
15:14:37 [dom]
[@@_from_Fraunhofer might be Christian Fuhrhop]
15:14:56 [anssik]
New requirements likely cannot be addressed by incremental improvements (“v2”) due to different level of abstraction -- layered design to rescue?
15:15:11 [anssik]
Lack of consistency leading to web developer ergonomics issues
15:15:15 [fjh_]
q+ to ask about criteria
15:15:49 [Louay_]
Webinos project already worked on a spec for Generic Sensor and Actuator API http://dev.webinos.org/specifications/api/sensors.html
15:16:23 [anssik]
Known issues overview
15:16:55 [anssik]
Since we now have web developer feedback and validation we can do data-driven API design
15:17:19 [anssik]
Known issues shared with all sensor APIs that define a new DOM event type (DeviceOrientationEvent, DeviceMotionEvent, DeviceLightEvent, DeviceProximityEvent etc.):
15:17:36 [anssik]
1) Unable to retrieve a sensor reading at any time
15:17:44 [fjh_]
q-
15:18:11 [anssik]
https://bugzil.la/1057185 -> Moz bug 1057185
15:18:31 [anssik]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/170 -> W3C spec issue re Moz bug 1057185
15:18:46 [gmandyam]
q+
15:18:56 [fjh_]
ack gmandyam
15:18:57 [anssik]
ack gmandyam
15:19:16 [fjh_]
zakim, who is here?
15:19:16 [Zakim]
On the phone I see fjh_, PaulBoyes, gmandyam, mats, Dom, tobie, mounir, richt, ted (muted), rkawada, rwaldron, anssik, @@_from_Fraunhofer, Claes
15:19:18 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Louay_, Claes, rwaldron, ted, rkawada, gmandyam, PaulBoyes, dom, Zakim, RRSAgent, mats, fjh_, anssik, fjh, mounir, slightlyoff, tobie, richt, Josh_Soref, trackbot
15:19:52 [fjh_]
Present+ Giri_Mandyam
15:20:35 [anssik]
gmandyam: issue 1) not affecting Geolocation API
15:20:51 [fjh_]
gmandyam notes it is an API sensor design issue, not a motivation for generic sensor
15:20:59 [anssik]
q?
15:21:08 [anssik]
2) Limited to a single sensor of each type
15:21:30 [Zakim]
-anssik
15:21:36 [anssik]
https://extensiblewebreportcard.org/ -> issue noted by TAG, see “Sensors”
15:22:18 [Zakim]
+??P0
15:22:27 [anssik]
zakim, ??P0 is me
15:22:27 [Zakim]
+anssik; got it
15:23:07 [gmandyam]
Geolocation has getCurrentPosition, and watchPosition is supposed to return a Position object if successfully invoked. Mozilla bug 1057185 is not a generic sensor API problem, but one due to design choices of Ambient Light
15:23:23 [anssik]
3) Sensors in loop-based situations (use cases: games, accelerometer-based scrolling, augmented reality)
15:23:35 [anssik]
https://github.com/rwaldron/sensors/issues/5 -> Provide a way of tying sensor requests to animation frames
15:24:04 [tobie]
q+ to mention slowness of implementing and deploying new sensor apis (ties to #2 above)
15:24:17 [fjh_]
due to events?
15:24:36 [anssik]
q?
15:24:38 [anssik]
ack tobie
15:24:38 [Zakim]
tobie, you wanted to mention slowness of implementing and deploying new sensor apis (ties to #2 above)
15:24:42 [fjh_]
anssik says yes
15:24:55 [fjh_]
ack tobie
15:25:10 [anssik]
tobie: takes a lot of time to introduce a new sensor
15:25:18 [anssik]
... implement in browsers
15:25:41 [fjh_]
tobie notes that time to market for new sensors impacted by not having generic sensor api, due to more time for specs, etc
15:26:53 [mounir]
mounir: I think experimentation is slightly out of topic, it's not specific to sensors
15:26:54 [anssik]
4) Sensor frequency not developer configurable
15:27:07 [mounir]
... but is more generic to the web platform even though it tends
15:27:13 [mounir]
... to be a bigger problem for hardware-related apis
15:27:24 [anssik]
5) Threshold (min/max) not developer configurable
15:27:26 [mounir]
mounir: There are a few ideas around like the api keys proposed
15:27:43 [mounir]
... by Microsoft at TPAC and discussed at BlinkOn and also
15:27:55 [mounir]
... navigator.connect() that has some shared goals
15:27:57 [gmandyam]
Tying sensor API's to requestAnimationFrame is one issue. But is a general sensor API needed that operates like requestAnimationFrame? For instance, requestSensorData which only invokes the successCallback when the sensor is ready to provide new data?
15:28:00 [anssik]
6) Dependency on the window object or other web related concepts
15:28:40 [anssik]
cannot be exposed to background processing (ServiceWorkerGlobalScope) or other window-less contexts (e.g. Node.js global)
15:29:26 [gmandyam]
Developer requesting sensor frequency may be OK, as long as they are not mandatory. Implementations may modulate the sensor frequency depending on the function (e.g. geofencing, where location polling frequency is adjusted based on distance from virtual geofence)
15:29:45 [anssik]
To draw parallels, WHATWG Streams is currently agnostic to the environment, implementable in the browser and Node.js environments.
15:30:22 [anssik]
W3C Streams API extends the WHATWG spec to meet the requirements specific to the browser environment.
15:31:11 [anssik]
Can we do something similar and agree on the right level of abstraction for a low-level API (“generic sensor API”) that enables high-level APIs as polyfills?
15:31:22 [fjh_]
idea of base multi-purpose spec with vertical specific specs above it might tie into discussion from TPAC health care discussion
15:31:52 [fjh_]
q+ to ask about testing, progressing generic api
15:32:03 [anssik]
ack fjh_
15:32:03 [Zakim]
fjh_, you wanted to ask about testing, progressing generic api
15:32:32 [anssik]
Topic: Generic Sensor API: Related work in W3C, current status
15:32:32 [mounir]
fjh_: in DAP, we explicitely decided to do small specifications that can evolve quickly
15:32:47 [anssik]
fjh_: how to do testing
15:32:51 [mounir]
... with a generic sensor API, how do you know it does work given that it is generic?
15:33:58 [gmandyam]
q+
15:34:13 [fjh_]
mounir notes could create Note for basis then create specs that are testable using it
15:34:14 [fjh_]
DAP work on sensors; see http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/wiki/SingleSensorSpecification
15:34:14 [gmandyam]
q-
15:34:15 [mounir]
mounir: a generic sensor api is meant to be a pattern, not something to publish, implement and test
15:34:30 [fjh_]
thanks, that answers the question
15:34:54 [anssik]
gmandyam: met at TPAC, richt, Tim attended, we looked at DeviceOrientation
15:35:03 [mounir]
scribenick: anssik
15:35:05 [anssik]
... that is a problematic spec
15:35:24 [anssik]
... the spec implemented in four browsers
15:35:46 [anssik]
... changes to implementations is hard
15:36:20 [anssik]
... re Geolocation, we're adding Geofencing exposed to ServiceWorkerGlobalScope
15:36:28 [tobie]
q+ on polyfilling existing APIs
15:36:31 [anssik]
... that seems complementary
15:36:57 [anssik]
... people pointed at the TPAC why Geolocation WG was separate
15:37:08 [anssik]
s/pointed/pointed out/
15:37:43 [anssik]
q?
15:37:45 [Zakim]
-anssik
15:37:46 [anssik]
ack tobie
15:37:46 [Zakim]
tobie, you wanted to comment on polyfilling existing APIs
15:38:22 [Zakim]
+??P0
15:38:25 [anssik]
zakim, ??P0 is me
15:38:25 [Zakim]
+anssik; got it
15:38:42 [gmandyam]
Geolocation: the Geo WG met at the recent TPAC and took up the issues regarding DeviceOrientation: minutes are in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/27-28-geolocation-minutes.html
15:38:52 [anssik]
tobie: it is important, when designing a generic sensor API, to be able to polyfill existing APIs
15:39:16 [anssik]
q?
15:39:21 [anssik]
Topic: Generic Sensor API Proposal review - Sensor API Unification Sketch
15:39:40 [fjh_]
fjh: as long as this does not harm new API design, to the extent possible
15:39:50 [rwaldron]
https://github.com/rwaldron/sensors
15:40:01 [anssik]
https://github.com/rwaldron/sensors -> Sensor API Unification Sketch
15:40:14 [gmandyam]
Geolocation (cont.): Tim Volodine (Google) presented how DeviceOrientation can be adapted in the context of a generic Sensor API: https://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/wiki/images/6/69/TPAC-sensors.pdf
15:40:25 [anssik]
rwaldon: has been working over two yours on johnny-five framework
15:40:46 [anssik]
... it is a Node.js framework that enables easily to write programs that interact with hardware
15:40:51 [anssik]
... started with client and host model
15:41:00 [anssik]
... communication over serial, like Arduino
15:41:16 [anssik]
... turning those things into sensor terminals
15:41:45 [anssik]
... aim to come up with sensors that are as intuitive as possible
15:41:59 [anssik]
... works with platforms that have GPIO etc. interfaces
15:42:36 [anssik]
... centers around creating a generic sensor instance from a sensor constructor that derives its data from the underlying platform
15:42:49 [anssik]
... currently active
15:42:58 [anssik]
... what this means for browsers
15:43:15 [anssik]
... it doesn't make sense to have a dependency on window
15:43:28 [anssik]
... or navigator object
15:43:41 [anssik]
... both of these objects are inppropriate homes for sensors
15:44:15 [anssik]
... effectively these are stand alone constructors that allow creating N number of instances
15:44:24 [anssik]
... for example, I have temperature sensor in my phone
15:44:33 [anssik]
... I should not need to wait for the event to arrive on the window
15:44:37 [anssik]
or navigator
15:44:54 [anssik]
rwaldron: or promise
15:45:14 [anssik]
... I should have a mechanism to command the frequency of the sensor
15:45:17 [Zakim]
-Dom
15:45:23 [anssik]
... including a change event
15:46:24 [anssik]
... agree with tobie that Tim's proposal is very similar to ours (Rick, Tobie, Domenic)
15:46:50 [anssik]
... but our proposal does not have dependency web related concepts such as window, navigator
15:47:03 [anssik]
https://github.com/rwaldron/sensors -> Sensor API Unification Sketch
15:47:37 [anssik]
... device orientation and some others have landed as implementation in browsers
15:47:51 [anssik]
... however, if we make the existing sensor APIs slightly lower-level
15:48:27 [Zakim]
-rwaldron
15:48:33 [richt]
q+ to ask if/how this proposal enables feature detection
15:48:34 [anssik]
... we'd be giving future developers better APIs
15:48:41 [rwaldron]
redialing
15:49:19 [Zakim]
+rwaldron
15:49:54 [anssik]
... tobie and Domenic have more to say
15:49:58 [anssik]
q?
15:50:01 [mounir]
q+
15:50:03 [anssik]
ack richt
15:50:03 [Zakim]
richt, you wanted to ask if/how this proposal enables feature detection
15:50:19 [anssik]
richt: how to enable feature detection?
15:50:53 [anssik]
rwaldron: if a browser support the sensor, the sensor constructor will exists, otherwise not
15:51:18 [anssik]
richt: implementers haven't done that in browsers, that is the current problem
15:51:46 [anssik]
... the pushback as been, you'll need to ask the platform to make sure
15:52:05 [anssik]
rwaldron: secondary mechanism, .value would be null if no sensor exists
15:52:14 [anssik]
... a normative requirement for the specification
15:52:41 [tobie]
q+ on feature detection
15:52:45 [anssik]
... we request a promise, of .value does not have a value the sensor is not supported
15:52:47 [anssik]
q?
15:53:28 [richt]
DeviceOrientation feature detection in this model has been a problem (https://github.com/w3c/deviceorientation/pull/12).
15:53:44 [Zakim]
-anssik
15:53:45 [fjh_]
zakim, who is here?
15:53:45 [Zakim]
On the phone I see fjh_, PaulBoyes, gmandyam, mats, tobie, mounir, richt, ted (muted), rkawada, @@_from_Fraunhofer, Claes, rwaldron
15:53:48 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Louay_, Claes, rwaldron, ted, rkawada, gmandyam, PaulBoyes, Zakim, RRSAgent, mats, fjh_, anssik, fjh, mounir, slightlyoff, tobie, richt, Josh_Soref, trackbot
15:54:15 [Zakim]
+??P3
15:54:22 [anssik]
zakim, ??P3 is me
15:54:22 [Zakim]
+anssik; got it
15:54:32 [fjh_]
rwaldron: cannot have value unless support reading from sensors
15:54:56 [fjh_]
q?
15:56:07 [anssik]
ack mounir
15:56:33 [anssik]
mounir: not a use case, marcos had the same comment
15:56:44 [rwaldron]
q?
15:56:47 [anssik]
... Node.js environment is different in this regard
15:56:51 [rwaldron]
q+
15:56:55 [anssik]
ack rwaldron
15:57:04 [anssik]
q?
15:57:51 [rwaldron]
q+
15:57:59 [anssik]
mounir: browsers have more constraints than Node.js
15:57:59 [fjh_]
group notes node.js offers insight but not necessarily the use case
15:58:05 [anssik]
q?
15:58:09 [fjh_]
q?
15:58:38 [anssik]
ack tobie
15:58:38 [Zakim]
tobie, you wanted to comment on feature detection
15:59:12 [anssik]
tobie: feature detection is worth discussing on the mailing list
15:59:22 [mounir]
+1
15:59:25 [anssik]
... would invite richt
15:59:36 [fjh_]
q?
15:59:47 [anssik]
q?
15:59:51 [anssik]
q- rwaldron
16:00:23 [anssik]
rwaldron: not an attempt to push a specific API e.g. johnny-five's design on Web
16:00:33 [anssik]
... just want to share learnings from other context
16:00:43 [anssik]
Topic: Generic Sensor API Proposal review - Tim Volodine's proposal
16:01:07 [fjh_]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Sep/0024.html
16:01:17 [anssik]
mounir: the main difference to Rick's is that when Tim and I looked at how to make a better sensor API
16:01:34 [anssik]
... first, DeviceOrientation can be only accessed through event
16:01:50 [fjh_]
Present+ ??_from_Fraunhofer
16:01:55 [anssik]
... with Rick's proposal you have .value which may or may not return a value
16:02:01 [tobie]
q+
16:02:07 [anssik]
... in Tim's proposal, the value is always a real value
16:02:17 [anssik]
... since it is gated behind a promise
16:02:27 [anssik]
q?
16:02:37 [rwaldron]
q+
16:03:26 [anssik]
... other details like hanging off of navigator, we could move elsewhere
16:03:40 [anssik]
... such as fooSensor.getXXX
16:03:42 [fjh_]
mounir: rejected if not available so not even aware there is no sensor, might be positive for privacy
16:04:15 [anssik]
... discussed at TPAC, maybe we should be more clever in how we handle frequency
16:04:27 [anssik]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Sep/0024.html
16:05:15 [anssik]
mounir: the mail is the canonical public source
16:05:24 [anssik]
... will look for a better pointer
16:05:25 [gmandyam]
I already pasted the link on IRC
16:05:30 [anssik]
q?
16:05:36 [anssik]
ack tobie
16:05:56 [gmandyam]
Here is the link to Tim's presentation again: https://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/wiki/images/6/69/TPAC-sensors.pdf
16:06:01 [anssik]
tobie: mounir explained the difference well, one issue re singleton that Tim advocates
16:06:05 [anssik]
... does not work very well
16:06:30 [anssik]
... other issues can be decided, mostly matter of taste
16:06:44 [anssik]
... not really disagreement on key technical questions
16:06:57 [anssik]
mounir: argreed
16:06:59 [anssik]
q?
16:07:17 [anssik]
ack rwaldron
16:08:01 [anssik]
rwaldron: I see these as the same, the proposals are doing the same things
16:08:10 [Zakim]
-Claes
16:08:33 [mounir]
Tim's slide deck: https://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/wiki/images/6/69/TPAC-sensors.pdf
16:08:41 [anssik]
... our spec works better with a map of active sensors
16:09:03 [anssik]
q?
16:09:14 [fjh_]
q+
16:09:28 [anssik]
ack fjh_
16:09:35 [Zakim]
-anssik
16:09:57 [Zakim]
+??P3
16:10:05 [anssik]
zakim, ??P3 is me
16:10:05 [Zakim]
+anssik; got it
16:10:12 [anssik]
Topic: Generic Sensor API - Summary, Discussion and Next Steps
16:10:16 [fjh_]
fjh: what is next step, create a draft on the list?
16:10:33 [fjh_]
general response is to continue on list
16:10:41 [fjh_]
q?
16:10:41 [anssik]
Potential next steps
16:10:52 [anssik]
Document known issues with existing APIs (currently spread across issue trackers)
16:11:02 [anssik]
Draft use cases and requirements (consider known issues)
16:11:20 [anssik]
Evaluate the proposals against the requirements
16:11:42 [anssik]
Flesh out the generic sensor API spec
16:11:47 [anssik]
Update the existing concrete sensor API specs to match
16:12:00 [anssik]
Call for volunteers?
16:12:40 [anssik]
q?
16:13:27 [anssik]
mounir: we could do this WebMob IG way
16:13:31 [rwaldron]
The item noted as a difference between "Sensor API Unification Sketch" (SAUS) and Tim's proposal is actually not a difference at all. Both versions initialize as null and would result in receiving the initial value payload at the same time. The real difference is that Tim's proposal doesn't allow user code to initialize a sensor object and do something with the reference (such as putting it into some sensor registry Map), whereas SAUS gives you the instance
16:13:31 [rwaldron]
immediately, which allows the reference to be used in interesting ways before the initial payload is delivered.
16:13:50 [anssik]
... we could have a GH repo, and work these
16:14:25 [anssik]
... working with script-coord@
16:15:07 [tobie]
q+ happy to help set the repo up, etc.
16:15:13 [fjh_]
q+
16:15:35 [anssik]
https://github.com/rwaldron/sensors
16:17:31 [tobie]
I can coordinate with Rick + dom for that.
16:17:43 [anssik]
proposed RESOLUTION: move https://github.com/rwaldron/sensors under "w3c" org and work from there, Anssi to check with W3C Team contact Dom
16:18:39 [fjh_]
create new git work area to develop the note
16:19:02 [anssik]
proposed RESOLUTION: create a GH repo where we can continue to work, Anssi to check with W3C Team contact Dom
16:19:33 [anssik]
RESOLUTION: create a GH repo where we can continue the work, Anssi to check with W3C Team contact Dom
16:20:37 [fjh_]
Topic: Adjourn
16:20:43 [fjh_]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:20:43 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-dap-minutes.html fjh_
16:21:30 [Zakim]
-PaulBoyes
16:22:16 [Zakim]
-ted
16:22:23 [Zakim]
-rwaldron
16:22:24 [Zakim]
-mounir
16:22:24 [Zakim]
-richt
16:22:25 [Zakim]
-anssik
16:22:25 [Zakim]
-tobie
16:22:26 [Zakim]
-fjh_
16:22:26 [Zakim]
-gmandyam
16:22:28 [Zakim]
-@@_from_Fraunhofer
16:22:28 [Zakim]
-mats
16:22:35 [Zakim]
-rkawada
16:22:37 [Zakim]
UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
16:22:37 [Zakim]
Attendees were anssik, fjh_, +1.206.734.aaaa, PaulBoyes, dom, gmandyam, mats, +44.207.184.aabb, tobie, mounir, richt, ted, rkawada, +1.857.540.aacc, rwaldron, +49.303.463.aadd,
16:22:37 [Zakim]
... +46.7.03.79.aaee, Claes, @@_from_Fraunhofer
16:26:53 [fjh_]
Present+ Paul_Boyes
16:26:59 [fjh_]
s/Yes//
16:27:08 [fjh_]
s/I am//
16:27:45 [fjh_]
s/we had a breakout session about sensors api/we had a breakout session at TPAC about Health Care Sensor APIs/
16:28:55 [fjh_]
s/there is an IG and a desire to work on this/a takeway is that the group thinks there needs to be a horizontal platform as well as work on verticals , with feedback loops. A starting point discussed was the web of things interest group./
16:29:30 [fjh_]
s?I want to summarize quickly about battery/ready to go to CR, Anssi can you please prepare CR draft with usual checks, including making a diff/
16:29:42 [fjh_]
s/I want to summarize quickly about battery/ready to go to CR, Anssi can you please prepare CR draft with usual checks, including making a diff/
16:30:04 [fjh_]
s/the CfC has concluded and Anssi will create a CR/ready to go to PR, Anssi can you please prepare CR draft with usual checks, including making a diff/
16:30:18 [fjh_]
s/same for Vibration API//
16:32:03 [fjh_]
s/UNKNOWN_SPEAKER:/gmandyam:/
16:32:09 [fjh_]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:32:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-dap-minutes.html fjh_
16:32:30 [fjh_]
s/UNKNOWN_SPEAKER/gmandyam/
16:32:37 [fjh_]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:32:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-dap-minutes.html fjh_
16:33:36 [fjh_]
s/I want to summarize quickly about battery/ready to go to CR, Anssi can you please prepare CR draft with usual checks, including making a diff/
16:33:41 [fjh_]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:33:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-dap-minutes.html fjh_
16:34:02 [fjh_]
s/ready to go to CR/Battery ready to go to CR/
16:34:16 [fjh_]
s/ready to go to PR/Vibration ready to go to PR/
16:34:26 [fjh_]
s/same for Vibration API//
16:34:32 [fjh_]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:34:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-dap-minutes.html fjh_
16:35:11 [fjh_]
s/redialing//
16:35:37 [fjh_]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:35:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-dap-minutes.html fjh_
16:50:46 [lgombos]
lgombos has joined #dap
18:24:09 [fjh_]
fjh_ has joined #dap
18:29:50 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #dap
21:03:24 [ted]
ted has left #dap
22:00:55 [fjh_]
fjh_ has joined #dap