15:00:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #shapes
15:00:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/11/12-shapes-irc
15:00:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs rdf-data-shapes
15:00:22 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #shapes
15:00:24 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
15:00:24 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
15:00:25 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Data Shapes Working Group Teleconference
15:00:25 <trackbot> Date: 12 November 2014
15:00:42 <Arnaud> zakim, this is shapes
15:00:42 <Zakim> ok, Arnaud; that matches DATA_RDFWG()10:00AM
15:01:08 <Zakim> +Arnaud
15:01:39 <SteveS> SteveS has joined #shapes
15:02:01 <Zakim> +karima
15:02:03 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:02:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see kcoyle, [IPcaller], Arnaud, karima
15:02:20 <hknublau> zakim, [IPCaller] is me
15:02:21 <Zakim> +hknublau; got it
15:02:29 <Zakim> +Arthur_Ryman
15:02:43 <Zakim> +Tony
15:03:16 <arthur> arthur has joined #shapes
15:04:17 <Irene> Irene has joined #shapes
15:05:19 <solbrig> solbrig has joined #shapes
15:05:30 <Zakim> + +1.914.777.aaaa
15:06:41 <Zakim> +[IBM]
15:06:48 <SteveS> Zakim, [IBM] is me
15:06:48 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it
15:07:05 <SteveS> Zakim, aaaa is Irene
15:07:07 <Zakim> +Irene; got it
15:07:20 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:07:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see kcoyle, hknublau, Arnaud, karima, Arthur_Ryman, Tony, Irene, SteveS
15:08:11 <Zakim> +ericP
15:10:26 <ericP> Zakim, Tony is really HaroldS
15:10:26 <Zakim> +HaroldS; got it
15:11:01 <SteveS> Zakim, HaroldS is solbrig
15:11:01 <Zakim> +solbrig; got it
15:11:18 <SteveS> Scribe: SteveS
<SteveS> chair: Arnaud
<SteveS> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2014.11.12
15:11:51 <SteveS> Topic: Admin
15:12:55 <SteveS> Arnaud: will start with new day and time next week, Nov 20 Thurs @ 2pm ET
15:13:04 <SteveS> ... Skipping approval of minutes
15:13:26 <SteveS> Arnaud: minutes are still not in proper form, working with team as they are backloged after tpac
15:13:31 <SteveS> hopefully by next week
15:13:33 <SteveS> Topic: Tracking of Actions and Issues
15:13:54 <SteveS> Arnaud: Skipping tracking of actions and issues, have none yet
15:14:36 <SteveS> Topic: Relationship between shapes and resources
15:15:07 <SteveS> Arnaud: probably should open an issue for this, will when tracker up, been a long discussion on this
15:15:57 <SteveS> Arnaud: summarizes some of the positions based on emails and user stories, based on class or direct relationship
15:17:11 <SteveS> arthur: in context of OSLC, or some organization that is defining vocabularies for some domain and org also defining REST APIs so tools can provide a consistent interface for multi-vendor tools to interoperate
15:18:17 <SteveS> ... even in a given tool instance, it can host various scoping mechanisms (typically a projects) which have different configuration, based on a standard vocabulary + some customizations (either new properties or additional constraints)
15:19:27 <SteveS> Possible that even each resource could have its own specialization
15:21:22 <SteveS> Having a resource's type (class) linked to the constraint definition had issues as it would typically cause broader impact on resources controlled by different scoping mechanisms (projects), so we took an approach to link a resource or operation to a given shape.
15:21:27 <hknublau> +q
15:21:50 <Arnaud> ack Tony
15:21:58 <Arnaud> ack hknublau
15:23:27 <SteveS> hknublau: sees that if you don't have this linked to the type triple, you need to have something like that..which could be aligned.
15:23:57 <SteveS> ... this would point off to a graph that would describe the instance of that resource
15:25:42 <ericP> It would characterize this as using named graphs for truth maintenance.
15:26:46 <arthur> +q
15:26:59 <ericP> It appears to exclude business processes with different constraints that have to talk to two interfaces at once.
15:27:02 <Irene> +q
15:27:25 <Arnaud> ack arthur
15:27:31 <SteveS> hknublau: describes approach he outlined in his email
15:28:48 <SteveS> arthur: getting further clearification on usage of owl:import
15:28:50 <Irene> it is really about unions of graphs
15:29:15 <SteveS> hknublau: simple just using it as a way to link to another group, only owl term that is used
15:30:27 <Arnaud> ack Irene
15:31:21 <arthur> +q
15:31:28 <Arnaud> ack arthur
15:31:55 <SteveS> Irene: the URI used is based on which graph it is contained it and then when it is dereferenced
15:32:05 <arthur> +q
15:32:26 <Arnaud> ack arthur
15:32:45 <hknublau> +q
15:33:12 <Arnaud> ack hknublau
15:33:24 <SteveS> arthur: using http uris provides a single view of a resource, whether named graphs are in volved or not
15:33:37 <arthur> +q
15:33:41 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:33:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see kcoyle, hknublau, Arnaud, karima, Arthur_Ryman, solbrig, Irene, SteveS, ericP
15:33:50 <Arnaud> ack arthur
15:34:09 <SteveS> Zakim, Arthur_Ryman is arthur
15:34:09 <Zakim> +arthur; got it
15:35:41 <arthur> +q
15:36:23 <Arnaud> ack arthur
15:36:30 <ericP> q+ to vocalize
15:37:24 <SteveS> (general discussion on various approaches and motivating use cases)
15:37:33 <Arnaud> ack ericP
15:37:33 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to vocalize
15:39:57 <kcoyle> +q
15:40:54 <SteveS> ericP: summarizing some examples given in emaill that highlight some cases where shapes should be decoupled from type
15:41:07 <hknublau> +q
15:41:13 <Arnaud> ack kcoyle
15:41:33 <arthur> +q
15:41:38 <ericP> i believe it's all type in the instance data
15:41:39 <SteveS> kcoyle: hoping to get clarification on what people are talking about when they are talking about type
15:41:51 <Arnaud> ack arthur
15:42:10 <SteveS> arthur: type as present in the instance data, which could be more than one type
15:42:37 <Arnaud> ack hknublau
15:43:43 <SteveS> hknublau: interested in multiple nesting and context aware constraints, have pointed out in latest response to ericP, by using sparql
15:44:42 <solbrig> +q
15:44:46 <SteveS> +q
15:45:14 <hknublau> +q
15:45:50 <Arnaud> ack solbrig
15:47:17 <SteveS> solbrig: outlining a different use case, involves what information is required in a graph or what is not in it
15:47:48 <SteveS> ... looking at data model we typically find in UML and progressively apply constraints, such as labratory test data
15:49:00 <SteveS> may require gender as part of the test who is of type :Person and also recorder who is of type :Person, which would have different constraints
15:49:39 <SteveS> have attempted to use reasoners which help with what the data denotes but not if it contains certain data
15:49:42 <Arnaud> ack SteveS
15:53:14 <Arnaud> ack hknublau
15:53:27 <SteveS> SteveS: summarized how LDP has left off the ability to describe what LDPRS can be created ... hope was in the future something such as shapes chould be applied to define these constraints
15:56:00 <kcoyle> so can we gather more use cases?!
15:56:04 <Irene> the request is to have more detailed use case descriptions
15:56:07 <SteveS> hknublau: was hoping we could get to some details to highlight the test cases and we could demonstrate how existing solutions can address tehm
15:56:20 <SteveS> +q
15:56:55 <Arnaud> ack SteveS
15:57:11 <Irene> with examples like data snippets because words are ambigious
15:57:20 <arthur> +q
15:58:17 <SteveS> Arnaud: wants to focus on consensus of requirements
15:58:59 <arthur> +1 to more examples
15:59:14 <Arnaud> ack arthur
15:59:20 <SteveS> SteveS: think it makes sense to work towards a set of test cases (scenarios) and common requirements, we can continue to evaluate existing technologies and if a closer fit to what would motivate the work product of this WG
16:00:05 <SteveS> Arnaud: examples will help clarify it, will add them and encourage others to do so
16:00:45 <SteveS> s/Arnaud:/arthur:/
16:01:23 <Zakim> -arthur
16:01:24 <Zakim> -solbrig
16:01:25 <Zakim> -hknublau
16:01:26 <hknublau> hknublau has left #shapes
16:01:26 <Zakim> -Irene
16:01:27 <Zakim> -kcoyle
16:01:28 <Zakim> -SteveS
16:01:30 <Zakim> -Arnaud
16:01:36 <Zakim> -ericP
16:01:39 <SteveS> Arnaud: continue to flush out user stories and go through items from DC requirements
16:03:51 <Arnaud> trackbot, end meeting
16:03:51 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:03:51 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been kcoyle, Arnaud, karima, hknublau, +1.914.777.aaaa, SteveS, Irene, ericP, solbrig, arthur
<SteveS> Present: kcoyle, Arnaud, hknublau, SteveS, Irene, ericP, solbrig, arthur
<SteveS> regrets: pfps, Nick
16:03:59 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:03:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/12-shapes-minutes.html trackbot
16:04:00 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:04:00 <RRSAgent> I see no action items