15:58:06 RRSAgent has joined #i18nits 15:58:06 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/11/10-i18nits-irc 15:58:09 meeting: ITS IG 15:58:11 chair: felix 15:58:13 scribe: fsasaki 15:58:24 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Nov/0020.html 15:58:30 regrets: Christian, Jörg 15:59:43 yves_ has joined #i18nits 15:59:58 dF has joined #i18nits 16:00:10 present+ dF 16:00:23 present+ Yves 16:02:32 philr has joined #I18nits 16:02:38 present+ philr 16:03:42 Ankit has joined #i18nits 16:04:40 present+ felix 16:04:53 present+ Ankit 16:05:46 topic: its in xliff module time line 16:06:08 yves: timeline for delivery of its module 16:06:21 .. felix noted, we don't have much time to finish things 16:06:32 .. we need to finish both spec + implementations by end of December 16:06:43 ... looking at what we need to do that is very hard 16:06:49 ... there may be three options 16:06:53 ... 1) postpone release 16:07:02 ... 2) not put ITS in that release 16:07:13 ... 3) have only parts of ITS in that module 16:07:27 david: we should have a concrete spec by Christmas 16:07:32 ... implementations can come later 16:07:39 ... during February 16:07:58 ... if you start public reviews in January, you have at least 60 days to provide implementations 16:08:07 yves: our schedule is based on a single review? 16:08:08 david: yes 16:08:20 ... if we need more than one review it will automatically postpone anyway 16:08:32 yves: a really hard schedule 16:08:53 david: I will have now more time and transfer categories, lot of this is putting attributes in module 16:09:06 yves: there are data categories that we have not even discussed yet 16:09:12 david: right 16:09:20 ... one is the note, but that is done, right? 16:09:31 ... it is not on the wiki, but I made a draft based on 1.2 16:09:53 ... there might be roadblocks, but I should manage to transfer stuff by christmas 16:10:22 ... postponing module for next release is not really an option, this is the main feature for xliff 2.1 16:10:47 ... can work on this during christmas break 16:11:02 ... we can still send spec for review during january 16:11:41 felix: if you need help with any editing please let me know (no need to be an editor) 16:12:14 david: good to know that you are ready to help, need to see myself if there is stuff to give to you etc. 16:12:23 ... work on docbook template is straightforward 16:15:09 topic: progress and next call 16:15:32 next call 8 december, we need to make progress via mail, then status check on 8 december 16:15:59 action: david to make status check on 8 december call 16:15:59 'david' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., dfilip, dlewis6). 16:16:06 action: dfilip to make status check on 8 december call 16:16:07 Created ACTION-55 - Make status check on 8 december call [on David Filip - due 2014-11-17]. 16:16:39 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Nov/0020.html 16:16:52 topic: ITS module namespace 16:16:59 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Nov/0013.html 16:18:01 yves: we will use a single namespace for the module 16:18:09 .. the URI is made from the other (xliff) modules 16:18:21 .. the question is arising for the detault prefix for that namespace 16:18:34 ... by convention we use the prefix for the same identifier 16:18:54 .. david things we should use ITS, I think we should use something else because ITS is taken 16:18:58 urn:oasis:names:tc:xliff:its:2.1 16:19:07 david: good summary 16:19:17 .. above is URI that is on the draft 16:19:39 .. argument to use something else than ITS is not to confuse things 16:20:05 ... prefix appears on a few places 16:20:26 its: 16:20:35 ... can also appear in values as an authorative namespace 16:20:58 its: 16:21:02 mtc: 16:21:15 david: we can have values from various modules 16:21:18 msft: 16:21:30 subState 16:21:58 david: all occurences should use the same short cut 16:22:26 ... question is: is ITS taken because it is used by w3c rec? 16:22:32 ... or is it ok to use it in xliff? 16:23:02 ... not sure if it matters - what is the danger? 16:23:21 ... your extractor needs to follow the mapping anyway 16:24:12 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Nov/0023.html 16:24:24 felix: see above mail for technical reaons where prefix matters 16:24:35 http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/verbatim.xsl 16:26:00 yves: ITS is default prefix for ITS in general 16:26:08 .. we should respect the convention 16:26:21 .. there is nothing that prevents us for using a different namespace 16:26:54 david: xits has a private connotation 16:27:15 ... the other namespaces are not based on a w3c namespace 16:27:32 ... itsm is a good idea, it indicates "its module" 16:28:16 felix: how to move forward with discussion? 16:28:33 david: yves copied xliff TC on discussion, they will decide before next call 16:28:41 ... xslt example is probably the most convincing 16:29:37 ... as yves said there are many options, main are: the same "its" or something else, something short - for some reasons itsx or xits are not good 16:29:48 ... I could live with its + s.t. else 16:29:59 topic: XLIFF test outupt 16:30:04 itsm 16:30:09 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Nov/0000.html 16:30:18 s/short/short like itsm/ 16:30:22 meaning its module 16:30:40 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Nov/0016.html 16:31:33 http://okapi.opentag.com/snapshots/okapi-xliffLib_all-platforms_1.1-SNAPSHOT.zip 16:32:00 felix: any open questions related to the output? 16:32:09 yves: need to define the line break type + encoding 16:32:35 .. having the same one would be useful 16:32:42 ... need to start producing the output 16:33:01 ... what we need to produce to make progress: 16:33:08 ... 1) ITS rules for the mapping 16:33:47 ... 2) write algorithm that felix, fredrick etc. talked about, how to convert an original file to work with ITS proceccing, e.g. deleting markers etc. 16:34:12 ... 3) after that it is matter of processing things 16:35:25 action: felix to do write up of processing ITS+XLIFF files 16:35:26 Created ACTION-56 - Do write up of processing its+xliff files [on Felix Sasaki - due 2014-11-17]. 16:35:41 david: need to define generic rules file, and 2) the algorithm 16:35:52 .. the generic file that would go for all generic ITS processors 16:36:22 ... makes sense to have rules file associated with an XLIFF file that does not have the module 16:37:38 topic: ITS preserve space and language information 16:37:50 s/topic: ITS preserve space and language information// 16:38:02 yves: annotators reference - we could have them for all data categories 16:38:07 ... in some case they are mandatory 16:38:24 ... should we put them if they are existing, in addition to data category info? 16:38:51 felix: if avail., should put them in the output 16:39:04 yves: should we just put information for that data category 16:39:19 felix: +1 16:39:35 yves: and shows that the tool know inheritance etc. 16:39:57 topic: ITS preserve space and language information 16:40:04 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Oct/0039.html 16:40:39 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Oct/0045.html 16:41:27 felix: looking in the archive I was not sure if there is a clear outcome of the discussion 16:41:41 yves: latest was: two additional attributes - that are part of the ITS module 16:41:48 ... its:space and its:lang 16:42:06 felix: itsm:space or itsm:lang ? 16:42:12 yves: yes, if we use that prefix 16:42:21 david: pretty much clear and resolved for space 16:43:00 ... the lang topic: I have not done a draft yet for this one 16:43:14 ... there are two options: say it is not possible to express inline in xliff 16:43:22 ... or to introduce itsm: attribute 16:43:35 ... if we use itsm: prefix 16:43:58 ... the main use case of xliff is bilingual - source and target 16:44:12 ... is this strictly analogical to preserve space or different? 16:44:24 yves: you could have a sentence with a citation 16:44:35 ... spell checking could help if language information is inline 16:44:54 david: it would be non translatable with translation one language > other 16:45:15 david: trying to thing about use cases 16:45:29 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/10-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki 16:45:41 discussion on citations 16:46:49 yves: you don't make segementation based on lang info 16:47:01 ... but if you have s.t. quoted in a language you don't segment it 16:47:27 ... I am trying to say: language information is independent of segmentration, translate etc. 16:47:36 ... useful e.g. for spell checker - we should try to provide 16:47:44 s/provide/provide it/ 16:47:55 david: technically it can be done like space 16:48:28 ... fine to handle it the same way as space 16:49:15 ... enough info for doing the editing in the spec 16:49:18 felix: great 16:49:36 topic: Provenance and change track module 16:49:44 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Oct/0034.html 16:50:44 yves: looking at ITS provenance, wondering how that relates to change tracking 16:50:49 ... some if the info is not the same 16:51:07 ... there is an action on dave lewis to look into that 16:51:26 ... I tried to look at it - I don't use change tracking currently 16:51:44 david: owner in xliff tc is ryan 16:53:07 .. dave + ryan would be best team to move this forward 16:53:26 ... change tracking addresses only a specific use case 16:53:37 ... you can record provenance also on things that have not been changed 16:54:45 ... we should look into mapping between them - there should be information from change tracking mapped via ITS rules into ITS provenance 16:55:28 felix: not sure if it is feasible to always do that mapping 16:55:45 david: there will be some 1:1 relationships between attributes 16:56:01 action-9? 16:56:01 action-9 -- David Lewis to Look at the XLIFF 2.0 change tracking module for provenance -- due 2014-05-30 -- OPEN 16:56:01 http://www.w3.org/International/its/ig/track/actions/9 16:56:26 felix: will check with dave 16:56:51 topic: loc world 16:57:34 david: we can be at locworld with feisgillt again, in berlin, will be week of june 1st, feisgillt then june 2-3 16:57:44 ... reserve the dates asap 16:58:12 topic: General: example XLIFF file with ITS2 metadata 16:58:20 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Oct/0033.html 16:58:40 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its-ig/2014Oct/att-0033/ITSInXLIFFtests.zip 16:59:00 yves: will update the example with invalid files as well, so that people can test their validation 16:59:06 .. any additioal examples are welcome 16:59:25 topic: aob 16:59:56 bye 17:00:07 next call 8 december, let's progress via mail before 17:00:22 adjourned 17:00:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/10-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki 17:03:19 rrsagent, bye 17:03:19 I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/10-i18nits-actions.rdf : 17:03:19 ACTION: david to make status check on 8 december call [1] 17:03:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/10-i18nits-irc#T16-15-59 17:03:19 ACTION: dfilip to make status check on 8 december call [2] 17:03:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/10-i18nits-irc#T16-16-06 17:03:19 ACTION: felix to do write up of processing ITS+XLIFF files [3] 17:03:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/10-i18nits-irc#T16-35-25