15:53:32 RRSAgent has joined #hcls 15:53:32 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/11/04-hcls-irc 15:53:36 Zakim, this will be hcls 15:53:36 ok, ericP; I see SW_HCLS()11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes 15:56:40 agenda+ FHIR ontology [Claude Nanjo / David Booth] 15:56:48 agenda+ ICD-11 and SNOMED [Claude Nanjo / David Booth] 15:56:48 agenda+ Bridging VA, Intermountain and other models [Claude Nanjo] 15:56:48 agenda+ Use cases [Guoqian Jiang] 15:56:48 agenda+ PhUSE-FDA project (formerly CDISC2RDF) [Charlie Mead] 15:56:48 agenda+ C-CDA RDF representations [ericP] 15:56:51 agenda+ High-level concept mapping to RDF (AR typeCodes, etc.) [Tony] 15:57:17 SW_HCLS()11:00AM has now started 15:57:24 + +1.617.498.aaaa 15:57:36 Topic: logistics intro 15:58:12 Vipul has joined #HCLS 15:58:51 egombocz has joined #HCLS 15:59:23 + +1.415.740.aabb 15:59:59 +ericP 15:59:59 + +1.919.767.aacc 16:00:19 TimW has joined #HCLS 16:00:19 +Mehmet 16:00:24 Zakim, aabb is ErichG 16:00:24 +ErichG; got it 16:00:29 mehmet has joined #HCLS 16:00:37 Marc_AgfaHealthCare has joined #HCLS 16:00:45 + +1.916.783.aadd 16:00:51 + +1.678.245.aaee 16:01:04 Zakim, aadd is DaleNelson 16:01:05 +DaleNelson; got it 16:01:05 +[IPcaller] 16:01:30 +Souri 16:01:40 + +1.978.794.aaff 16:01:43 Zakim, who is speaking 16:01:43 I don't understand 'who is speaking', ericP 16:01:46 ratnesh has joined #hcls 16:01:53 + +1.410.624.aagg 16:01:57 Zakim, who is noisy 16:01:57 I don't understand 'who is noisy', ericP 16:02:09 + +41.61.201.aahh 16:02:13 Claude_Nanjo has joined #HCLS 16:02:15 Zakim, mute aacc 16:02:15 +1.919.767.aacc should now be muted 16:02:19 Zakim, unmute aacc 16:02:19 +1.919.767.aacc should no longer be muted 16:02:23 Good morning everyone 16:02:24 Zakim, who is here? 16:02:24 On the phone I see +1.617.498.aaaa, ErichG, ericP, +1.919.767.aacc, Mehmet, DaleNelson, +1.678.245.aaee, [IPcaller], Souri, +1.978.794.aaff, +1.410.624.aagg, +41.61.201.aahh 16:02:27 On IRC I see Claude_Nanjo, ratnesh, Marc_AgfaHealthCare, mehmet, TimW, egombocz, Vipul, RRSAgent, Zakim, Souri, hcools, TallTed, cloudcell, ericP 16:02:29 Zakim, mute aaaa 16:02:29 +1.617.498.aaaa should now be muted 16:02:30 +[IPcaller.a] 16:02:54 +??P24 16:03:08 Josh has joined #HCLS 16:03:09 Tony has joined #HCLS 16:03:14 + +1.801.810.aaii 16:03:38 Bpech has joined #hcls 16:03:42 +[IPcaller.aa] 16:04:04 +Tony 16:04:10 ??P24 is Ratnesh 16:04:14 Zakim, ??P24 is ratnesh 16:04:14 +ratnesh; got it 16:04:25 Hello There 16:04:35 this is Marc from Belgium 16:04:48 Zakim, [IPcaller.aa] is RafaelRichards 16:04:48 +RafaelRichards; got it 16:04:53 Zakim, who is here? 16:04:53 On the phone I see +1.617.498.aaaa (muted), ErichG, ericP, +1.919.767.aacc, Mehmet, DaleNelson, +1.678.245.aaee, [IPcaller], Souri, +1.978.794.aaff, +1.410.624.aagg, 16:04:57 ... +41.61.201.aahh, [IPcaller.a], ratnesh, +1.801.810.aaii, RafaelRichards, Tony 16:04:57 On IRC I see Tony, Josh, Claude_Nanjo, ratnesh, Marc_AgfaHealthCare, mehmet, TimW, egombocz, Vipul, RRSAgent, Zakim, Souri, hcools, TallTed, cloudcell, ericP 16:05:05 + +91.49.aajj 16:05:07 having problem to connect to TCon... any change about the conference code? 16:05:24 Sal has joined #HCLS 16:05:32 + +1.801.368.aakk 16:05:54 Guoqian has joined #HCLS 16:05:58 Zakim, aakk is Brin 16:05:58 +Brin; got it 16:06:13 +1.617.498.aaaa is Vipul 16:06:33 Zakim, +1.617.498.aaaa is Vipul 16:06:33 +Vipul; got it 16:06:34 Zakim, aaaa is Vipul 16:06:34 sorry, ericP, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa' 16:06:42 + +1.336.436.aall 16:06:49 Zakim, 1.410.624.aagg is Josh 16:06:49 sorry, Josh, I do not recognize a party named '1.410.624.aagg' 16:07:06 Zakim, +1.410.624.aagg is Josh 16:07:06 +Josh; got it 16:07:55 Bpech has joined #hcls 16:08:11 Zakim, who is here? 16:08:11 On the phone I see Vipul (muted), ErichG, ericP, +1.919.767.aacc, Mehmet, DaleNelson, +1.678.245.aaee, [IPcaller], Souri, +1.978.794.aaff, Josh, +41.61.201.aahh, [IPcaller.a], 16:08:15 ... ratnesh, +1.801.810.aaii, RafaelRichards, Tony, +91.49.aajj, Brin, +1.336.436.aall 16:08:15 On IRC I see Bpech, Guoqian, Sal, Tony, Josh, Claude_Nanjo, ratnesh, Marc_AgfaHealthCare, mehmet, egombocz, Vipul, RRSAgent, Zakim, Souri, hcools, TallTed, cloudcell, ericP 16:08:15 + +1.604.250.aamm 16:08:37 Zakim, aamm PaulKnapp 16:08:37 I don't understand 'aamm PaulKnapp', ericP 16:08:41 Zakim, aamm is PaulKnapp 16:08:41 +PaulKnapp; got it 16:08:43 TimW has joined #HCLS 16:08:58 conference code? 16:08:58 Zakim, +1.415.740.aabb is egombocz 16:08:58 sorry, egombocz, I do not recognize a party named '+1.415.740.aabb' 16:09:07 Zakim, aaii is Bryn 16:09:07 +Bryn; got it 16:09:15 Zakim, aabb is egombocz 16:09:15 sorry, ericP, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb' 16:09:16 -ratnesh 16:09:56 Zakim, aall is LaurieWoodrome 16:09:56 +LaurieWoodrome; got it 16:10:02 Zakim, who is here? 16:10:02 On the phone I see Vipul (muted), ErichG, ericP, +1.919.767.aacc, Mehmet, DaleNelson, +1.678.245.aaee, [IPcaller], Souri, +1.978.794.aaff, Josh, +41.61.201.aahh, [IPcaller.a], 16:10:06 ... Bryn, RafaelRichards, Tony, +91.49.aajj, Brin, LaurieWoodrome, PaulKnapp 16:10:06 On IRC I see TimW, Bpech, Guoqian, Sal, Tony, Josh, Claude_Nanjo, ratnesh, Marc_AgfaHealthCare, mehmet, egombocz, Vipul, RRSAgent, Zakim, Souri, hcools, TallTed, cloudcell, ericP 16:10:06 + +1.323.444.aann 16:10:36 + +1.801.949.aaoo 16:10:39 +??P3 16:10:44 succeded to join the call 16:10:57 Zakim, ??P3 is ratnesh 16:10:57 +ratnesh; got it 16:13:45 oya has joined #HCLS 16:15:16 DaleNelson: ITS focuses on physical rendering. We don't promote models of our own. 16:15:53 -ratnesh 16:17:05 +??P3 16:17:26 Zakim, ??P3 is ratnesh 16:17:26 +ratnesh; got it 16:18:07 PaulKnapp: HL7 quarum requirements require an ITS co-chair. we'll step in to chair for motions and give back to the regular chair 16:18:22 Claude_Nanjo: I've been working with David Booth. 16:18:50 ... This is an opp for the HL7 and W3C communities to exchange knowledge and ideas. 16:19:14 ... David will be hosting many of the calls. 16:19:36 What is the number to call in? 16:20:08 Clinical Observation & Interoperability Task Force - coding medical records Goal - W3C and HL7 can complement each other's work W3C Work - Technical aspect of building a clinical infrastructure using semantic technologies - Clinical care/trials can really benefit from semantic technologies HL7 (Paul Knapp & Dale Nelson) - ITS is focused on physical rendering of content models and in the transport of information - No content of their own - Techno[CUT] 16:20:24 Sal, +1.617.761.6200 4257# 16:20:44 -Vipul 16:20:47 for exchanging the content of others. RDF fits fairly well within this scope. - Minimum criteria - One co-chair and couple of attendees. - Decision must follow HL7 process - As long as HL7 co-chair is present, decisions can be made within this group. If not, they need to be brought back to ITS. - Dale Nelson - introduction. - Quorum - at least one co-chair needed for formal motions and votes - Claude - introduction 16:20:50 - +1.678.245.aaee 16:21:14 + +1.919.681.aapp 16:21:19 Thanks! 16:21:29 Paul please feel free to correct the information if not accurate. 16:21:50 Minutes to provide of record of decisions made and inform the wider group. 16:21:52 Format: 16:22:05 Person's name: ... 16:22:53 scribenick: Claude_Nanjo 16:23:17 ITS_RDF has joined #HCLS 16:23:41 mscottm has joined #hcls 16:23:45 ITS_RDF has left #hcls 16:23:55 No web screen share but we can arrange for one if needed. 16:23:57 + +31.62.427.aaqq 16:24:09 Zakim, show agenda 16:24:09 I see 7 items remaining on the agenda: 16:24:10 1. FHIR ontology [from Claude Nanjo / David Booth via ericP] 16:24:10 2. ICD-11 and SNOMED [from Claude Nanjo / David Booth via ericP] 16:24:10 3. Bridging VA, Intermountain and other models [from Claude Nanjo via ericP] 16:24:10 4. Use cases [from Guoqian Jiang via ericP] 16:24:10 5. PhUSE-FDA project (formerly CDISC2RDF) [from Charlie Mead via ericP] 16:24:10 6. C-CDA RDF representations [from ericP] 16:24:11 7. High-level concept mapping to RDF (AR typeCodes, etc.) [from Tony via ericP] 16:24:13 + +1.678.245.aarr 16:24:18 Zakim, take up next agendum 16:24:18 agendum 1. "FHIR ontology" taken up [from Claude Nanjo / David Booth] 16:24:29 TimW has joined #HCLS 16:24:35 -ratnesh 16:24:48 scribenick: ericP 16:25:02 rhausam has joined #HCLS 16:25:02 Claude_Nanjo: we started some work on a FHIR ontology 16:25:09 Is there any material to share on the work done about FHIR ontology? 16:25:12 +??P3 16:25:27 ... we alligned with an ontology that Josh Mandel had done to present FHIR as RDF 16:25:37 Zakim, ??P3 is ratnesh 16:25:37 +ratnesh; got it 16:25:38 ... we paused 4-5 months ago 16:25:41 rhausam has left #hcls 16:25:41 Zakim, aaqq is mscottm 16:25:42 +mscottm; got it 16:26:03 Rob_Hausam has joined #HCLS 16:26:07 ... the goal was to find a SemWeb representation 16:26:22 ... discussed with Lloyd and JoshM 16:26:51 ... some open issues around the way FHIR models concepts which could be represented in another way 16:26:57 PKnapp has joined #HCLS 16:27:07 ... and how to link to other ontologies and use in other contexts 16:27:07 http://gforge.hl7.org/gf/project/hl7owl/ 16:27:12 -mscottm 16:27:49 ratnesh: there is work at HL7 on O-RIM. 16:27:53 +mscottm 16:28:08 ... we could map between FHIR and O-RIM, especially the datatypes. 16:28:33 Claude_Nanjo: there were discussions in CDS around a shallow hierarchy for FHIR. 16:28:49 ... I didn't add a hierarchy to FHIR's root-level resources. 16:29:11 ... We didn't want to make the structures unintuitive for the SemWeb community. 16:30:09 -ericP 16:30:33 +ericP 16:31:33 lloyd: we should be leary about using O-RIM to drive the FHIR hierarchy (that we choose to expose). 16:31:35 -Brin 16:32:01 ... what the RIM ontology might impose may or may not be relevent from a business perspective. 16:32:36 ... There is a desire to have a formal representation of FHIR instances that can be transformed to/from the other two syntaxes. 16:33:05 ... That would fall under HL7 ITS and would be appropriate for this group. It's been on the FHIR wish list for a while. 16:33:18 -ratnesh 16:33:37 DaleNelson_ has joined #HCLS 16:33:45 +??P3 16:34:06 Zakim, ??P3 is ratnesh 16:34:06 +ratnesh; got it 16:34:13 ericP: JoshM and I worked on stuff to map FHIR XML <-> RDF 16:34:35 Rafael has joined #HCLS 16:34:50 ... the reference implementaitons in C#, Java, etc. can be updated to R/W RDF 16:35:39 + +1.805.995.aass 16:35:58 GuoqianJiang: at Mayo, we're using ISO11179 to capture structures from FHIR because we want to capture data elements from different models. 16:36:25 ... we want to capture e.g. QDM, CEMs from IMH 16:36:45 ... The RDF version of FHIR would help us 16:38:01 Zakim, take up next agendum 16:38:01 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, ericP 16:38:06 q? 16:38:16 q= 16:38:21 queue= 16:38:24 Zakim, take up next agendum 16:38:24 agendum 2. "ICD-11 and SNOMED" taken up [from Claude Nanjo / David Booth] 16:38:41 +Kerstin_Forsberg 16:38:57 Rafael: Mark Musen will be giving a talk soon. 16:39:06 ... VA has put our vocab into SKOS. 16:39:22 ... good exposure of Vista in RDF via Connor's work. 16:39:24 Kerstin_Forsberg has joined #HCLS 16:39:49 ... so VA is trying to leverage this large repo 16:40:10 Claude_Nanjo: next week Mark will present on this topic. 16:40:17 Zakim, take up next agendum 16:40:17 agendum 3. "Bridging VA, Intermountain and other models" taken up [from Claude Nanjo] 16:40:31 -ratnesh 16:40:45 Claude_Nanjo: this isn't a current project. 16:40:56 +??P3 16:40:57 Zakim, ??P3 is ratnesh 16:40:57 +ratnesh; got it 16:41:11 ... there are a number of models out there (FHIR, VMR, IMH's work on CIMI, VA models...) 16:41:22 Lloyd_McKenzie has joined #HCLS 16:41:23 ... we discussed a way to bridge these models. 16:41:47 ... e.g. expose DOD patient model info as FHIR 16:42:06 ... transform RDF patient graphs into FHIR 16:42:37 ... we are normalizing and doing analytics so we need the original structure. 16:42:47 ... can we link these models? 16:42:54 Zakim, take up next agendum 16:42:54 agendum 4. "Use cases" taken up [from Guoqian Jiang] 16:43:05 scribenick: Claude_Nanjo 16:43:20 Zakim, who is talking? 16:43:32 mscottm, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: ratnesh (8%), +1.323.444.aann (12%), ericP (34%), Tony (30%) 16:44:08 GuoqianJiang: how do we capture use cases? 16:44:11 - +1.978.794.aaff 16:44:31 Guokian Jiang: It would be good to identify use cases that connect this work. It would be good to have a wiki to do this. 16:44:40 sorry I will need to leave the Tcon 16:44:59 will catch up with the minute 16:45:01 Eric: We could use the W3C wiki. May need some governance to identify similar work. 16:45:34 ACTION: ericP to send pointers to existing wiki pages 16:45:37 Eric will provide pointers to existing Wiki 16:45:37 Zakim, take up next agendum 16:45:37 agendum 5. "PhUSE-FDA project (formerly CDISC2RDF)" taken up [from Charlie Mead] 16:45:47 Zakim, take up next agendum 16:45:47 agendum 5 was just opened, ericP 16:45:58 Zakim, take up next agendum 16:45:58 agendum 5 was just opened, ericP 16:46:10 Zakim, take up agendum 6 16:46:10 agendum 6. "C-CDA RDF representations" taken up [from ericP] 16:48:02 -> http://www.w3.org/2013/C-CDA/IJ.xml Turtle representaiton of a C-CDA 16:48:22 TimW has joined #HCLS 16:48:23 - +1.323.444.aann 16:48:37 + +1.978.794.aatt 16:48:45 - +91.49.aajj 16:49:32 Eric: Introduced a framework for the conversion of CCDA to turtle. 16:49:47 Rafael: Could this also be outputted as JSON-LD? 16:50:03 Eric: May be a fairly nested structure if represented as JSON-LD 16:50:24 Zakim, take up next agendum 16:50:25 agendum 5. "PhUSE-FDA project (formerly CDISC2RDF)" taken up [from Charlie Mead] 16:50:30 Rafael: May be friendlier to front end developers 16:50:33 -ratnesh 16:50:34 Zakim, take up agendum 7 16:50:34 agendum 7. "High-level concept mapping to RDF (AR typeCodes, etc.)" taken up [from Tony via ericP] 16:51:22 +??P3 16:51:23 Zakim, ??P3 is ratnesh 16:51:23 +ratnesh; got it 16:51:37 Tony: convergence is a high priority or we end up in an entropy of opinions 16:52:27 Tony: Convergence is high on our list. Assuming we get to some level of convergence, and say it is FHIR, we may need to do some high level mappings of concepts to RDF. How do terminology codes map to RDF - looked at IHTSDO for how concepts look like in this ontology. 16:53:29 -> https://www.w3.org/wiki/File:Snomedct_extract.ttl slice of SNOMED-CT 16:53:36 How does a coded term look like in RDF, what is its URI, its URI structure? We should take on high level mappings of high level models to RDF. Can we converge on styles of representation. 16:53:50 -> https://www.w3.org/wiki/File:Snomedct_extract_descriptive.ttl slice of SNOMED-CT with descriptive URLs 16:54:32 Tony: How does one relate a concept to an instance 16:55:06 GuokianJiang: IHTSDO and WHO are trying to harmonize 16:56:31 IHTSDO and WHO are discussing convergence? 16:56:43 -ratnesh 16:57:07 +??P3 16:57:08 Zakim, ??P3 is ratnesh 16:57:08 +ratnesh; got it 16:57:37 chair: ericP 16:57:40 - +1.919.767.aacc 16:57:40 They have had an agreement to develop a common ontology for ICD-11 and SNOMED. T 16:57:49 RRSAgent, please draft ninutes 16:57:49 I'm logging. I don't understand 'please draft ninutes', ericP. Try /msg RRSAgent help 16:58:04 The idea is that each ICD-11 category will have a formal definition from SNOMED CT concepts 16:58:18 - +1.678.245.aarr 16:58:44 RRSAgent, please draft log 16:58:44 I'm logging. I don't understand 'please draft log', ericP. Try /msg RRSAgent help 16:58:52 RRSAgent, please make log public 17:00:03 rrsagent, please draft minutes 17:00:03 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/04-hcls-minutes.html ericP 17:00:28 Lloyd and Tony: Concept may be represented with coding from multiple terminologies and needing to identify code, code system, version (URI) to associate the instance to the concept. A constraint: What is done in RDF will need to roundtrip from RDF to XML/JSON. What is the scheme to represent these identifiers. 17:00:32 Zakim, who is here? 17:00:33 On the phone I see ErichG, Mehmet, DaleNelson, [IPcaller], Souri, Josh, +41.61.201.aahh, [IPcaller.a], Bryn, RafaelRichards, Tony, LaurieWoodrome, PaulKnapp, +1.801.949.aaoo, 17:00:33 ... +1.919.681.aapp, mscottm, ericP, +1.805.995.aass, Kerstin_Forsberg, +1.978.794.aatt, ratnesh 17:00:33 On IRC I see Lloyd_McKenzie, Kerstin_Forsberg, Rafael, DaleNelson_, PKnapp, Rob_Hausam, mscottm, Guoqian, Sal, Tony, Josh, Claude_Nanjo, ratnesh, mehmet, egombocz, Vipul, RRSAgent, 17:00:38 ... Zakim, Souri, hcools, TallTed, cloudcell, ericP 17:01:47 present: Lloyd_McKenzie, Kerstin_Forsberg, Rafael, DaleNelson_, PKnapp, Rob_Hausam, mscottm, Guoqian, Sal, Tony, Josh, Claude_Nanjo, ratnesh, mehmet, egombocz, Vipul, RRSAgent,Souri, hcools, TallTed, cloudcell, ericP Souri, Josh, Bryn, RafaelRichards, Tony, LaurieWoodrome 17:01:52 rrsagent, please draft minutes 17:01:52 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/04-hcls-minutes.html ericP 17:01:53 - +1.805.995.aass 17:02:06 -> http://www.w3.org/2014/11/04-hcls-minutes minutes 17:02:42 -Josh 17:02:44 -PaulKnapp 17:02:44 -Kerstin_Forsberg 17:02:46 -Souri 17:02:46 -Tony 17:02:47 - +1.978.794.aatt 17:02:47 -Mehmet 17:02:48 -RafaelRichards 17:02:49 -DaleNelson 17:02:50 -[IPcaller] 17:02:50 -ratnesh 17:02:51 - +1.801.949.aaoo 17:02:55 -mscottm 17:02:59 -ericP 17:03:00 -[IPcaller.a] 17:03:03 Rob_Hausam has left #hcls 17:03:03 -LaurieWoodrome 17:03:32 -Bryn 17:03:37 -ErichG 17:03:39 - +1.919.681.aapp 17:08:38 disconnecting the lone participant, +41.61.201.aahh, in SW_HCLS()11:00AM 17:08:40 SW_HCLS()11:00AM has ended 17:08:40 Attendees were +1.415.740.aabb, ericP, +1.919.767.aacc, Mehmet, ErichG, +1.916.783.aadd, +1.678.245.aaee, DaleNelson, [IPcaller], Souri, +1.978.794.aaff, +41.61.201.aahh, 17:08:40 ... +1.801.810.aaii, Tony, ratnesh, RafaelRichards, +91.49.aajj, +1.801.368.aakk, Brin, Vipul, +1.336.436.aall, Josh, +1.604.250.aamm, PaulKnapp, Bryn, LaurieWoodrome, 17:08:42 ... +1.323.444.aann, +1.801.949.aaoo, +1.919.681.aapp, +31.62.427.aaqq, +1.678.245.aarr, mscottm, +1.805.995.aass, Kerstin_Forsberg, +1.978.794.aatt