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15:41:05 <wilhelm> Meeting: Browser Testing & Tools WG, F2F, TPAC 2014
15:41:11 <wilhelm> Chair: wilhelm
15:42:16 <wilhelm> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebDriver/2014-TPAC-F2F
15:42:41 <wilhelm> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:42:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-testing-minutes.html wilhelm
15:43:12 <wilhelm> RRSAgent, make logs public
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15:53:54 <ato> wilhelm: I'm stuck in suburban traffic jam.
15:54:04 <ato> Will be quite late I think.
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15:59:45 <lukeis> :whobrokeit
15:59:46 <selbot2> simonstewart
16:00:05 <simons_> :yt never going to give you up
16:00:06 <selbot2> Rick Astley - Never Gonna Give You Up - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ&feature=youtube_gdata
16:00:14 <lukeis> #34
16:00:16 <selbot2> 03
16:00:16 <selbot2> simon.m.stewart open/Accepted Support BASIC and Digest HTTP authentication - https://code.google.com/p/selenium/issues/detail?id=34 [Type-Enhancement Priority-Medium Component-WebDriver ]
16:00:59 <simons_> Hahahahaha
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16:06:16 <simonstewart> "Ruining"?
16:06:20 <simonstewart> I beg to differ
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16:06:36 <Ms2ger> s/"Ruining"?//
16:06:41 <Ms2ger> s/I beg to differ//
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16:07:59 <lukeis> PRESENT +LukeInmanSemerau
16:08:09 <jgraham> present +jgraham
16:08:12 <MarcFisher> PRESENT +MarcFisher
16:08:14 <seva> PRESENT +seva
16:08:14 <simonstewart> present +SimonStewart
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16:08:17 <auchenberg> PRESENT +auchenberg
16:08:21 <sam_u> present +SamUong
16:08:23 <AutomatedTester> Present +DavidBurns
16:08:37 <wilhelm> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:08:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-testing-minutes.html wilhelm
16:08:40 <jimevans1> present +jimevans
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16:08:54 <mdas_> I'm somehow logged in with two nicks
16:09:00 <wilhelm> Present+ wilhelm
16:09:02 <mdas_> present +mdas_
16:09:07 <juangj> present +juangj
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16:10:46 <Ms2ger> s/Hahahahaha//
16:10:52 <Ms2ger> s/:whobrokeit//
16:10:52 <selbot2> simonstewart
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16:11:01 <Ms2ger> s/simonstewart//g
16:11:07 <wilhelm> scribe: mdas_
16:11:12 <Ms2ger> s/wilhelm: I'm stuck in suburban traffic jam.//
16:11:18 <Ms2ger> s/Will be quite late I think.//
16:11:27 <Ms2ger> s/:yt never going to give you up//
16:11:27 <selbot2> Rick Astley - Never Gonna Give You Up - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ&feature=youtube_gdata
16:11:39 <Ms2ger> s$Rick Astley - Never Gonna Give You Up - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ&feature=youtube_gdata$$g
16:11:44 <Ms2ger> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:11:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-testing-minutes.html Ms2ger
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16:12:53 <Ms2ger> s|Rick Astley - Never Gonna Give You Up - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ&feature=youtube_gdata||g
16:12:55 <Ms2ger> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:12:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-testing-minutes.html Ms2ger
16:13:14 <Ms2ger> s/s$$$g//
16:13:21 <Ms2ger> s/I'm somehow logged in with two nicks//
16:14:03 <jgraham> s/.*//
16:14:42 <Ms2ger> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:14:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-testing-minutes.html Ms2ger
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16:17:29 <mdas> scribe: mdas_
16:17:31 <mdas> AutomatedTester: The current state of the spec is turning it into a spec instead of a story
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16:18:08 <mdas> AutomatedTester: we're not missing many API calls, just a trivial handful, and we have action items from previous meetings we need to verify as done
16:18:59 <mdas> wilhelm: We have 85 open issues, which should we discuss?
16:19:06 <mdas> wilhelm: any that aren't listed?
16:19:20 <simonstewart> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20860
16:19:31 <mdas> simonstewart: some bugs are level 2 and don't need to be addressed
16:19:58 <mdas> jgraham: if you try to implement the current spec, what you send over the wire is unclear
16:20:09 <mdas> jgraham: I think there's work needed there to pin down what should be sent over the wire
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16:20:33 <gitbot> [13web-platform-tests] 15Ms2ger opened pull request #1326: Extend the Node#cloneNode test. (06master...06clone-prefix) 02https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1326
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16:20:38 <mdas> ato: we also need to figure out some details of the schema and how to define these things, we previously concluded that webIDL was not appropriate
16:20:50 <mdas> ato: we need to figure out what is appropriate that is less cumbersome
16:21:33 <mdas> sam_u: We need to discuss screenshots
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16:22:32 <ato> sam_u: About the agenda topic Data Model: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-browser-tools-testing/2014OctDec/0021.html
16:23:09 <mdas>  RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:23:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-testing-minutes.html mdas
16:23:14 <wilhelm> Scribe: mdaas
16:23:22 <mdas> Scribe: mdas
16:23:30 <lukeis1> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:23:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-testing-minutes.html lukeis1
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16:24:11 <mdas> mdas: we need to clarify some parts of the touch spec
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16:26:14 <gitbot> [13web-platform-tests] 15Ms2ger opened pull request #1327: Extend the Element#tagName test. (06master...06tagName) 02https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1327
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16:28:14 <mdas> topic: auchenberg discussing developer tools
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16:29:27 <wilhelm> http://www.w3.org/2011/08/browser-testing-charter.html
16:30:04 <ato> lukeis1: https://twitter.com/sarah11918/status/526827265813123074
16:30:06 <mdas> wilhelm: http://www.w3.org/2011/08/browser-testing-charter.html chapter 1-2 says we can explore overlapping interests in other WGs
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16:30:22 <mdas> auchenberg: a few years ago we started RemoteDebug, which unifies interfaces to browsers
16:31:05 <mdas> auchenberg: fixing the gap between the editor and the browser, and remote debug tool bridges that gap. Chrome has their own, Opera has their own, Mozilla has their own...
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16:31:21 <mdas> auchenberg: we want to achieve a unified interface for browsers
16:32:04 <mdas> auchenberg: we wanted to use the existing chrome remote debug protocol to start standardizing on
16:32:37 <darobin_> so, which browsers need updates in the DOM testing?
16:33:58 <darobin> ok
16:34:07 <mdas> auchenberg: status of remote debug: Node Inspector is being reused across platforms, and Microsoft demoed remote debugging
16:34:09 <Ms2ger> s/so, which browsers need updates in the DOM testing?//
16:34:13 <Ms2ger> s/ok//
16:35:41 <mdas> auchenberg: editors are adding devtools, and discusses other implementors
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16:37:58 <mdas> auchenberg: what's next? start using remote debugging tools and map out the differences between them before unification
16:40:02 <mdas> auchenberg: is there room for this concern in this WG?
16:41:13 <mdas> AutomatedTester: I really like is how we communicate from teh local to remote end using HTTP endpoint, Mozilla's implementation is based off remote debugger, so that level of communication would be great if standardized
16:41:29 <mdas> AutomatedTester: the other parts of what WebDriver does seems out of scope for remotedebugger
16:41:55 <mdas> jgraham: does anyone work on browser devtools?
16:42:07 <mdas> JohnJansen is the only one to raise his hand :)
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16:42:09 <gitbot> [13web-platform-tests] 15dannin opened pull request #1328: Add blackberry driver (06master...06master) 02https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1328
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16:42:44 <mdas> jgraham: we don't have many people who work on it so this may not be the right group
16:43:43 <mdas> jgraham: people may not be interested in standardizing something they don't know about/charter does not cover
16:45:52 <mdas> auchenberg: we want to iterate on two separate issues: protocol and the API. tooling vendors are interested in using remote debugging but roll their own thing. They don't have the time to implement one protocol for each browser and don't have control over how the browser changes so they have to play catch up
16:46:44 <mdas> auchenberg: maybe we can build in some stability into the protocol to enable browser agility (so they can make changes), but we need to get the conversation started
16:47:02 <ato> jgraham: You said exactly what I was going to say (-:
16:47:24 <mdas> jgraham: I think devtools has been an area where browsers competed against each other. You need to make the case that interoperability is more valuable.
16:48:59 <mdas> discussion about competing browsers' devtools to compel users to use the browser
16:49:15 <mdas> AutomatedTester: we should unify on the communication across browsers.
16:49:38 <mdas> auchenberg: yes, agreed. How people innovate on top of that is up to them
16:50:45 <mdas> auchenberg: is there room in this charter for this concern?
16:51:05 <mdas> simonstewart: start a community group?
16:51:15 <mdas> auchenberg: can it be joined under this charter or is it out of scope?
16:52:10 <mdas> simonstewart and ato: first you need to get a community and find a shared goal to unify and evolve from there
16:53:53 <mdas> AutomatedTester recommends writing a strawman and discusses its benefits
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17:22:57 <mdas> topic: new process discussion
17:23:52 <mdas> MikeSmith: Trying to spec publishing better, for webdriver, we can adopt the new process if we want
17:24:16 <mdas> MikeSmith explains a very hand-wavy old process and hand-wavy new process
17:24:23 <mdas> MikeSmith mentions 'agile'
17:24:46 <mdas> wilhelm: the biggest issue is diconnect between TR and the Editor's draft
17:24:52 <mdas> s/diconnect/disconnect
17:25:04 <mdas> wilhelm: how can we move from here? kill the TR bit or put Editor's draft there?
17:25:44 <mdas> MikeSmith: we have flexibility there, I will figure out what we have to do but we should be able to change it to reflect what we want them to implement now
17:27:07 <mdas> MikeSmith: updating TR takes too long and would be out of date, so we tell people not to read the TR. we want to change this so implementors won't be confused
17:28:32 <mdas> JohnJansen: the TR will still exist with the new process but it will be easy
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17:28:41 <mdas> quick vote to see who is for/against
17:28:48 <mdas> everyone is in favour
17:29:01 <mdas> resolution: adopt new process
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17:30:51 <mdas> topic: Discuss moving decisions to mailing list
17:31:03 <mdas> AutomatedTester: we should move discussion to mailing list since we only meet every 6 months or so
17:32:11 <mdas> AutomatedTester: we would get more engagement from community
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17:33:11 <mdas> seva: do we need a voting process in the list?
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17:33:34 <mdas> jgraham: the way it 'works' in other WGs is if people seem to be reaching agreement, you don't need a vote, you reach consensus
17:35:08 <mdas> simonstewart: we can try it!
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17:35:53 <mdas> AutomatedTester: it would be valuable to get more community members' voices heard outside of bugs
17:36:35 <mdas> lukeis: no response is tacit agreement?
17:36:38 <MikeSmith> +1 to not voting and to lazy consensus and to, if/when more formal decisions are needed, moving such decision-making to mailing list
17:36:52 <mdas> JohnJansen: yes would work that way
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17:37:44 <mdas> resolution: we will use mailing list
17:38:07 <wilhelm> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-browser-tools-testing/
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17:39:03 <mdas> topic: data model
17:39:28 <ato> Context: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26147
17:39:30 <mdas> jgraham: the context is that I've been trying to implement the current spec to make a proxy between the protocol and marionette (mozilla webdriver implementation)
17:39:32 <ato> Uh, wrong link.
17:39:39 <mdas> jgraham: at the moment, the spec is not implementable
17:39:39 <ato> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-browser-tools-testing/2014OctDec/0021.html
17:39:52 <mdas> jgraham: there are a lot of things missing, and some things that are there don't make sense
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17:40:20 <mdas> jgraham: it should be a goal of this meeting to really nail this stuff down
17:40:47 <mdas> ato: it's also very difficult to write down the algorithms without the data model in place
17:41:17 <mdas> ato: all the current command algorithsm don't say anything of the return/response values, http response codes, which headers should be sent, etc...
17:41:24 <mdas> s/algorithsm/algorithms
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17:42:07 <Ms2ger> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:42:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-testing-minutes.html Ms2ger
17:42:16 <mdas> ato: we can start working from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-browser-tools-testing/2014OctDec/0021.html
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17:43:00 <mdas> jgraham: I don't think we need to decide spec text, but we need to decide how we want to represent our spec (ie: what to use instead of webIDL)
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17:43:06 <mdas> jgraham: how about section 2?
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17:43:15 <simonstewart> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webdriver/raw-file/default/webdriver-spec.html#commands-and-responses
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17:45:00 <mdas> jgraham: webIDL is used here, but we're sending HTTP requests with json in the body and the webDIL to json is undefined
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17:45:15 <mdas> jgraham: the spec should be clear that you don't send body with GET requests
17:45:29 <mdas> action: clarify that you  don't send body with GET requests
17:46:03 <mdas> jgraham: name and session ID for reqs that take body is pointless since they are in the path and you can't send it in GET, so we should pare it down just to parameters
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17:46:43 <seva> http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-minutes.html
17:46:44 <ato> JohnJansen: http://sny.no/bttmin
17:47:21 <wilhelm> https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebDriver#Minutes_from_meetings
17:47:23 <mdas> action: make the body of the requests just the parameters object and nothing else
17:47:35 <mdas> jgraham: empty json object if no parameters?
17:47:38 <mdas> simonstewart: yes
17:47:45 <mdas> action: clarify how to send no parameters
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17:49:30 <mdas> simonstewart: how about if we want to add implicit parameters?
17:49:48 <mdas> jgraham: doesn't matter for GET
17:49:54 <mdas> simonstewart: perhaps using headers or querystring then
17:50:11 <mdas> simonstewart: path matching and query string
17:50:35 <mdas> ato: there is a limit to the length you can send over the wire
17:51:25 <mdas> ato: we can refer to url spec since there may be intermediaries that don't respect the spec
17:51:47 <mdas> simonstewart: that's a problem for those intermediaries if they don't follow spec
17:52:05 <mdas> s/we can refer/we can't refer
17:52:31 <mdas> seva: the advantage of shoving parameters in querystring is that it works with GET?
17:52:32 <mdas> simonstewart: yes.
17:53:41 <mdas> jgraham: there is asymmetry between req and resp, since response has no query string
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17:55:11 <mdas> mkwst___:  we should move to POST, why have them split up?
17:55:29 <mdas> simonstewart: we use the different kinds of reqs so we can redirect them appropriately
17:56:35 <mdas> simonstewart: our API is REST-ish, and the req types adds clarity
17:57:07 <mdas> jgraham: I see both sides of this, superficially, thes pec looks nice and looks RESTful, but not quite
17:57:18 <mdas> simonstewart: that's why it's REST-ish
17:57:39 <mdas> jgraham: it's easier to implement if everything is a POST and has a body, but I also agree that it looks like a nicer API as REST-ish
17:57:54 <mdas> simonstewart: I want to avoid breaking all existing implementations. Changing to POST is a massive breaking change
17:58:23 <mdas> ato: also I think if you examine existing implementations, most of them are utilizing the JSON object, so I'm not sure if it will be such a performance problem not to do only POSTS
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17:59:21 <mdas> s/mkwst___/MarcFisher
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18:00:37 <mdas> simonstewart: the command object allows you to specify any fields in the dictionary, how can we preserve the capability of adding additional metadata? We used the HTTP verbs and json blobs
18:00:41 <mdas> ato: can we send params through headers?
18:00:57 <mdas> jgraham: if your'e doing this, sending through headers feels HTTPish but feels like a terrible idea
18:01:17 <Ms2ger> RRSAgent, this meeting spans midnight
18:02:14 <mdas> simonstewart: we can leave additional data and metadata to headers to Level 2
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18:03:34 <mdas> ato: we should specify if the intermediary can change the data it's passing
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18:04:09 <mdas> MarcFisher: say IE doesn't support xpath, we can build an intermediate node which would see XPATH and translate it to somethine IE could understand
18:04:17 <mdas> MarcFisher: so there is value in changing the data
18:05:19 <mdas> simonstewart: proxy/shims do this
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18:05:52 <mdas> jgraham: I don't think you have to say anything, the proxy implements both sides of the spec (local and remote ends)
18:06:13 <mdas> MarcFisher: yeah we shouldn't really address intermediate nodes in the spec
18:06:59 <mdas> jgraham: agree
18:07:04 <mdas> simonstewart: I'm happy to take that language out
18:07:28 <mdas> ato: we mentioned it first just to show it is possible
18:08:07 <mdas> jgraham: i think it's fine to say it exists, but we don't need to define it
18:08:40 <mdas> ato: we have a previous decision to add a section of uses of webdriver, so we should add it there
18:09:03 <mdas> action: ato to add intermediate nodes as an example use case
18:10:19 <mdas> ato: how do we standardize on json presentation?
18:10:27 <mdas> jgraham: there are multiple 'standards'
18:10:35 <mdas> ato: TC39? ecmascript one?
18:10:46 <mdas> action: ato ask Anne if TC39 should be used
18:11:07 <mdas> jgraham: are we assuming the path in the request is an absolute path, or is it just random prefixes?
18:11:30 <mdas> AutomatedTester: I remember raising a bug, you can put anything in front if it, and hope the vendor supports it
18:11:48 <mdas> simonstewart: you can host it on any server you ahve, it's relative to the base path of the server used
18:11:52 <mdas> s/ahve/have
18:12:05 <mdas> jgraham: for every connection, you need to know the base path
18:12:32 <mdas> MarcFisher: yes that's always going to be the case, you need to know the address and port your'e connecting to. Adding more segments to that seem trivial
18:12:57 <mdas> ato: selenium,chrome and maybe firefox uses different urls
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18:14:50 <mdas> jgraham: by hosting webdriver url on a host that has other endpoints, it seems worrying
18:15:17 <mdas> simonstewart: ultimately it's a webapp that controls the browser
18:15:29 <mdas> simonstewart: it's up to you where you want to host that webapp
18:16:07 <mdas> jgraham: we don't want to encourage incorrect setups
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18:16:37 <mdas> simonstewart: we don't want to prevent users from setting it up the way they want
18:18:30 <mdas> jgraham: that's fine, it should just be clear in the spec
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18:20:05 <mdas> action: add recommendations in the spec about per server path prefix
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18:20:19 <mdas> topic: responses
18:21:55 <mdas> ato: AutomatedTester proposed return value from new session command will have value set to dictionary with SessionId and Capabilities
18:22:01 <mdas> AutomatedTester: should we get rid of status?
18:22:05 <mdas> jgraham: no status makes sense
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18:22:22 <mdas> jgraham: can have more more info in status field than code
18:22:32 <mdas> s/field than code/field than status code
18:22:48 <simonstewart> https://code.google.com/p/selenium/wiki/JsonWireProtocol#Response_Status_Codes
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18:23:44 <mdas> simonstewart: json wire protocol (https://code.google.com/p/selenium/wiki/JsonWireProtocol#Response_Status_Codes), there is an attempt to use HTTP status code the way it should be used
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18:23:47 <mdas> ato: I don't think this is good
18:24:43 <mdas> discussion about status field vs status code
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18:25:17 <mdas> simonstewart: not finding an element is interesting. One status code, but two different status fields, either "I didn't find an element" or "malfolmed selector"
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18:25:40 <mdas> simonstewart: status code is used to know success/fail, and field is used for throwing to user
18:26:15 <mdas> jimevans: the value for failed commands if defined such that the the 'value' value of the object should contain the message
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18:26:59 <mdas> simonstewart: are we saying that we always return 200 for success, and use codes for problem, and we get rid of the value field and use the body
18:27:51 <mdas> MarcFisher: two mandatory fields: type and message
18:27:59 <mdas> ato: any non 200 code should be error?
18:28:04 <mdas> simonstewart: 302 is redirect
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18:28:47 <mdas> jgraham: there's HTTP level stuff and webdriver level stuff on top
18:28:58 <mdas> jgraham: at the http level, if you get a redirect, then you should follow the reidrect and make a new req
18:29:07 <mdas> jgraham: you should do what http says to do
18:29:16 <mdas> simonstewart: new session used to redirect to new sessionid
18:29:23 <mdas> simonstewart: we simplified that
18:30:11 <mdas> ato: so we should have status codes for each status defined in the spec?
18:30:25 <mdas> MarcFisher: we should define what the local end should do with that status code
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18:32:17 <mdas> simonstewart: I think what JSON wire protocol does is enough
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18:33:19 <mdas> jgraham: for each error, we define the status code and on receiving that code we shoudl define how it should be handled
18:33:27 <mdas> simonstewart: I think we can just say this in a preamble, not for each
18:33:47 <mdas> simonstewart: like, 'oh i got a 501' well you should get an error code with the message. if you don't, do some default
18:33:58 <mdas> jgraham: I think I agree
18:34:16 <mdas> jgraham: in section 2.4 there's a list, each item in taht list should ahve an http status code to it
18:34:22 <mdas> simonstewart: I think it should be 501 for almost all of them
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18:35:03 <erabonza> http status codes: http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec6.html#sec6
18:35:34 <mdas> jgraham: if found elements are in the url, then we send 404 for unfound elements
18:35:39 <Yves> nah, it's at http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7231#section-6
18:35:44 <mdas> AutomatedTester: what about stal eelements?
18:35:55 <mdas> wilhelm: It's error code 410
18:36:06 <mdas> jgraham: right, so we need to decide what the codes are for each error
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18:36:34 <mdas> simonstewart: yes, and if we get a non 200/300 code, we consider an error
18:36:46 <mdas> action: assign status code to each error
18:36:48 <Yves> and of course https://www.iana.org/assignments/http-status-codes/http-status-codes.xhtml
18:38:40 <mdas> action: explicitly specify that webdriver implementation is expected to own all paths under its prefix?
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18:38:58 <mdas> s/under its prefix?/under its prefix
18:39:28 <mdas> ato: how do you handle a paramater that is wrong? a wrong type for example?
18:39:32 <mdas> simonstewart: server error?
18:39:48 <mdas> MarcFisher: we have error code for illegal argument
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18:40:14 <mdas> ato: we shoudl generalize so all command objects should be handled with these pre-steps, then algorithm, then serialization definition.
18:40:41 <mdas> jgraham: yes, if a remote end gets a request, it should run these steps, if there's an error, produce X response, otherwise handle response and serialize it and push out
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18:41:15 <mdas> action: ato to define the pre-steps, error handling, algorithm and serialization definition for all cases in general
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18:42:41 <mdas> topic: headers
18:42:47 <mdas> simonstewart: we should do cache control ones
18:43:01 <mdas> jgraham: agreed. Did we agree that everything int eh spec should be under cache-control or whatever the header is?
18:43:02 <mdas> simonstewart: yes.
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18:43:45 <Yves> if you need http-related stuff reviewed, please ask me
18:44:22 <mdas> ato: what about metadata headers? if a proxy modifies a value
18:44:25 <mdas> jgraham: I think we will leave that for now
18:44:48 <mdas> jgraham: we need to define what *has* to be sent in the headers
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18:45:11 <mdas> jgraham: and let additional headers be sent
18:45:24 <mdas> ato: which headers do we want to enforce?
18:45:44 <mdas> jgraham: content-type, cache-control
18:46:04 <Yves> perfect!
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18:47:06 <mdas> action: specify which headers we expect: cache-control and content-type
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18:51:30 <mdas> resolution: remove response body and just send back dictionary
18:52:09 <mdas> ato: what do we do to send back a primitive?
18:52:13 <mdas> simonstewart: use 'value' key
18:52:38 <mdas> resolution: use 'value' key for primitives
18:52:55 <mdas> simonstewart: are we happy with the way we encode elements?
18:53:02 <mdas> simonstewart: we currently use ELEMENT
18:53:32 <mdas> simonstewart: how to differentiate a webelement or a dictionary of elements?
18:53:52 <mdas> jimevans: in previous version of spec, 'element' was mapped to id, which was problematic
18:54:01 <mdas> ato: seems liek circular problem, not sure how to guard against this
18:54:28 <mdas> jgraham: the right way is to when you createa a session, it sends back the key you have to use for the element
18:54:37 <mdas> simonstewart: why not use the same guid?
18:55:07 <mdas> simonstewart: so you're saying "here's a random string", why don't we generate that guid now, and be done with it?
18:55:10 <mdas> jgraham: that works
18:55:21 <mdas> simonstewart: are we happy with 'ELEMENT' being that key?
18:55:38 <mdas> jgraham: that's nto a guid, it's human readable string
18:56:25 <mdas> jgraham: that way no human generated key will try to use that key
18:56:45 <mdas> s/that way no human generated/using a guid means no human generated
18:56:46 <jgraham> 7bf8701e-6066-11e4-a52e-4f735466cecf
18:57:24 <mdas> simonstewart: but we can pick any 36 characters we want
18:57:37 <mdas> simonstewart: why not use human readable one if it has equal chance of being generated?
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18:58:18 <mdas> jgraham: entropy affects it
18:58:27 <mdas> jgraham: there is no advantage to having human readable strings
18:58:42 <mdas> jgraham: I have been manually typing this, i would happily deal with the fact that it's a 36char string
18:59:32 <mdas> seva: how about some human readable part?
18:59:35 <ato> ELEMENT-7bf8701e-6066-11e4-a52e-4f735466cecf
18:59:57 <jgraham> I think the conclusion was element-6066-11e4-a52e-4f735466cecf
19:00:21 <mdas> resolution: use ELEMENT-6066-11e4-a52e-4f735466cecf instead of 'ELEMENT'
19:00:44 <mdas> s/ELEMENT-6066-11e4-a52e-4f735466cecf/element-6066-11e4-a52e-4f735466cecf
19:00:49 <JohnJansen> agree
19:00:52 <mdas> now everyone is happy.
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19:29:13 <gitbot> [13web-platform-tests] 15Ms2ger opened pull request #1329: Add some attributes tests. (06master...06attributes) 02https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1329
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19:36:24 <MikeSmith> Ms2ger, 'Attr.ownerElement' is deprecated and has been removed from DOM4 (http://w3.org/tr/dom).
19:36:34 <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, lolwat
19:36:52 <MikeSmith> heh
19:37:11 <Ms2ger> I guess it well might still be removed from tr/dom
19:40:26 <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, a thought for future f2f meetings... Put "review wpt PRs" on the agenda
19:40:50 <MikeSmith> we still can do that
19:41:08 <MikeSmith> for the webdriver meeting, you mean?
19:41:11 <MikeSmith> oh
19:41:25 <MikeSmith> yeah, should have done for webapps I guess
19:41:47 <Ms2ger> Well, I want people to review my tests :)
19:41:54 <MikeSmith> yeah
19:41:59 <Ms2ger> Not sure if this room is particularly well-suited for that
19:42:06 <Ms2ger> Excluding present company, of course
19:42:23 <MikeSmith> well, on that note, for that "Non-HTML element with upper-case attribute" test it would be nice to know which of those assertions is/are failing
19:42:36 <MikeSmith> is it odd for me to expect that?
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19:44:59 <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, no, you're right
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19:45:34 <MikeSmith> also I'm surprised how many of these tests fail in webkit
19:45:37 <Ms2ger> Ha
19:45:52 <Ms2ger> Well, Servo crashes, so there's that
19:45:59 <MikeSmith> and wondering why webkit fails 8 of them and blink only fails 4
19:46:13 <MikeSmith> heh
19:47:41 <MikeSmith> sadly for me it just times out
19:47:43 <MikeSmith> ERROR:js::rust: Error at http://web-platform.test:8000/resources/testharness.js:1842: TypeError: w is undefined
19:48:04 <Ms2ger> Yeah, you need our th.js fork
19:48:12 <MikeSmith> but I'm running a build from probably two weeks ago or longer
19:48:14 <MikeSmith> ah OK
19:48:31 <jgraham> Ms2ger: I think we have tried putting testing on the agenda before and basically the room emptied
19:48:53 <MikeSmith> yeah I seem to remember that phenomenon as well
19:49:11 <jgraham> Turns out that there are lots of people who like having "deep thoughts" but don't like doing actual work
19:49:22 <Ms2ger> Ha
19:49:23 <jgraham> At least during f2f meetings
19:49:44 <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, your assertion messages have arrived :)
19:50:27 <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: thanks will review it on critic now
19:51:36 <MikeSmith> btw do you guys do the thing of pulling the pr/NNNN branches?
19:52:07 <Ms2ger> Occasionally
19:52:32 <MikeSmith> OK I'm just wondering what the proper way to do it with get when fetching the subsequent commits
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19:54:33 <Ms2ger> git fetch origin; git merge --ff-only origin/pr/foo?
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20:04:00 <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: yeah that's basically what I do
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20:10:32 <gitbot> [13web-platform-tests] 15sideshowbarker closed pull request #1329: Add some attributes tests. (06master...06attributes) 02https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1329
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20:10:33 <gitbot> [13web-platform-tests] 15sideshowbarker pushed 3 new commits to 06master: 02https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/compare/bea430c61dc7...710be6f97d3e
20:10:33 <gitbot> 13web-platform-tests/06master 14887cb97 15Ms2ger: Add some attributes tests.
20:10:33 <gitbot> 13web-platform-tests/06master 14d4569c7 15Ms2ger: Add messages.
20:10:33 <gitbot> 13web-platform-tests/06master 14710be6f 15Michael[tm] Smith: Merge pull request #1329 from Ms2ger/attributes...
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20:12:35 <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, so, while I have you around... ;)
20:14:12 <astearns> Ms2ger: give him a few minutes - he just set his laptop down and closed his eyes for a bit
20:14:41 <Ms2ger> Ah
20:14:51 <Ms2ger> astearns, in that case, want to do some reviews?
20:15:32 <Ms2ger> Dammit astearns!
20:24:26 <jgraham> Ms2ger: Apparently everyone was out partying last night, so trying to get useful work out of them today might be hard
20:25:22 <Ms2ger> I assume not the kind of partying Hixie would do?
20:25:40 <Ms2ger> (As in, drink water and blog about HTML parsing)
20:27:56 <jgraham> I don't think it was that kind of party, sadly
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20:59:39 <gitbot> [13web-platform-tests] 15mbrubeck closed pull request #1319: fix pointer types detection placement (06master...06submission/Microsoft/PointerEvents-FixPointerTypesDetectionPlacement) 02https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1319
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20:59:40 <gitbot> [13web-platform-tests] 15mbrubeck pushed 8 new commits to 06master: 02https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/compare/710be6f97d3e...f9c7b19be305
20:59:40 <gitbot> 13web-platform-tests/06master 145534d32 15Evgeny Agafonchikov: Fix placement of detected_pointertypes update...
20:59:40 <gitbot> 13web-platform-tests/06master 14d53e544 15Evgeny Agafonchikov: Fix placement of detected_pointertypes update...
20:59:40 <gitbot> 13web-platform-tests/06master 14b6ab2da 15Evgeny Agafonchikov: Add missing code for detecting of pointer types
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21:07:30 <wilhelm> Scribe: seva
21:07:34 <seva> scribe: seva
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21:11:40 <seva> topic: how to accelerate specking progress
21:12:11 <seva> simonstewart: proposes to try to set aside dedicated time for spec work
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21:12:55 <seva> AutomatedTester: can easier justify dedicated time lately better than before
21:14:01 <seva> AutomatedTester: should be easy to do, at least before the end of Q1 2015
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21:15:23 <seva> everyone looks happy
21:16:36 <seva> simonstewart: there are very few points of contention left
21:18:01 <seva> action: Simon and David to setup dedicated time
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21:18:36 <seva> topic: Having capabilities be required when passed i
21:19:27 <seva> AutomatedTester: there's been a lot of cases when desired capabilities passed are in fact required
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21:20:17 <seva> simonstewart: no, they are often in fact desired. you don't get everything you desire for. sometimes results are unexpected for the users, yes
21:21:07 <seva> simonstewart: desired capabilities were designed when .. it was actually fine for the user to get something similar to what they asked for
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21:21:51 <seva> simonstewart: there's still a need for desired: I want Firefox 33. but there's only 34 available. 34 is fine
21:22:46 <seva> AutomatedTester: making one extra trip to the remote end to confirm what was asked for earlier looks wrong
21:23:03 <seva> simonstewart: no, that's fine. highly concurrent systems do that
21:24:01 <seva> simonstewart: before there were not required capabilities, just desired
21:24:32 <seva> simonstewart: one doesn't need to use desired capabilities. if everything is required, use required
21:24:43 <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: was sleeping and eating. you were pinging me about a review? Or Denis is doing it?
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21:25:06 <denis> MikeSmith, I'll take care of https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/3022
21:25:25 <seva> ato: David started the discussion in the mailing list, but only a few people took part
21:25:44 <MikeSmith> de
21:26:29 <seva> simonstewart: i want to be able to checj out 6 month old tests that hard code Firefox version 30 and run the tests
21:27:35 <seva> simonstewart: people sometimes overpopulate the caoabilities; use both desired and required browserName. and that works because of the fuzzy matching
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21:28:19 <seva> ato: getting back Firefox when you asked for a different browser - seems unnatural
21:28:29 <seva> simonstewart: then require Firefox
21:28:50 <seva> simonstewart: you can also ask for either Firefox or Crome
21:28:54 <seva> Chrome
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21:29:59 <seva> simonstewart: we should first match on browserName. then on platform. then maybe browserVersion
21:31:00 <seva> lukeis: with Grid, there's resource allocation aspect. you need to know/fix the platform first ?
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21:32:10 <seva> simonstewart: a shim (chromedriver, iedriverserver, etc) can know what version of the browser is installed without starting the browser
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21:32:50 <seva> simonstewart: other than Java, language bindings don't have required caoabilities - just desired.
21:33:47 <seva> simonstewart:  people could check what they get after they got the session started; they don't
21:35:15 <seva> lukeis: discussing some aspects of language bindings and disired/required capabilities...
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21:36:48 <seva> scribe: both desire and required caps stay. language bindings will add features to make those easier to use..
21:36:59 <seva> scribe: seva
21:37:09 <seva> resoution:  both desire and required caps stay. language bindings will add features to make those easier to use..
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21:38:39 <seva> AutomatedTester: if we keep both I would like proxy capability to always be required
21:40:47 <seva> MarkFisher: actual capabilities that are returned by the driver should return proxy if it's set
21:41:07 <seva> lukeis: proxy is not returned, in fact, in the oss implementation
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21:41:28 <seva> MarkFisher: it should, according to the spec, right?
21:41:44 <seva> MarcFisher: it should, according to the spec, right?
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21:43:16 <seva> MarcFisher: there can be multiple ways to match a subset of a set of desired capabilities
21:43:56 <seva> MarcFisher: the best way to specify what the driver should prefer - not specify that
21:44:24 <seva> simonstewart: disagrees. says we can mandate certain preferences
21:45:30 <seva> MarcFisher: I don't think spec should be more prescriptive that it is now. it suggest, non-normative, that certain standard caps should be considered more important
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21:47:30 <seva> jgraham: desired caps are an attempt to reduce allowed non-deterministic behavior
21:49:01 <seva> MarcFisher: I believe one things is worth including. for every desired cap, the actual capabilities returned MUST have some indication
21:50:58 <seva> lukeis: there are some common capabilities that are returned by the oss project. we should list them in the spec so that vendors can implement them
21:51:33 <seva> MarcFisher: it is counter productive to try to mandate a list of caps that MUST be returned
21:51:44 <seva> MarcFisher: the list will be growing all the time
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21:55:17 <seva> simonstewart: if a user sets a desired capability, then in the returned set of caps there MUST be a capability with that key and a value that indicates what has been done there
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21:57:25 <seva> simonstewart: is the user also specifies a required cap. then the returned set f caps is a union of hte two sets (desired and required)
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21:58:19 <seva> JohnJansen: why return the required caps? user knows them because they requested them
21:59:31 <seva> ato: let's discuss the nested objects/arrays in the capabilities
21:59:42 <seva> ato: Chrome uses chrome: {}
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22:00:21 <seva> AutomatedTester:  proxy is already proxy: {...}
22:00:50 <seva> sam_u: we have a couple of use cases for that
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22:02:20 <seva> sam_u: why not have them?
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22:06:02 <seva> resolution: yes. support an arbitrary json object for capabilities object
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22:07:54 <seva> jgraham: you can now use null as a value indicating ... something was not set?
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22:10:06 <seva> simonstewart: for a desired capability that was requested but wasn;t set, the remote end MUST return either 1) the other value it was set to or 2) null (if it was not set) 3) {} if it was set (but requested not to)
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22:11:43 <simonstewart> For every capability defined in the spec, we should return the current value in the session. For capabilities not defined in the spec, remote end implementors can choose to either return the current value, or "null" if not set or the empty object ({}) if set.
22:12:29 <simonstewart> The returned capabilities for a session is a dictionary containing keys for every requested desired and required capability (value set as above) plus (optionally) extra information
22:12:32 <seva> resolution: ^
22:13:55 <seva> willhelm: do we not have anything non-deterministic left in the spec?
22:14:16 <seva> ato: yes we have that left, thats the point of desired capabilities
22:14:47 <seva> willhelm: then we should say "do whatever"
22:14:54 <seva> MArcFisher: we do
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22:16:07 <seva> everyone: let's take a break!
22:16:24 <seva> topic: Finalise Wire Protocol Endpoints
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22:31:51 <gitbot> [13web-platform-tests] 15zcorpan closed pull request #1322: Add tests for the metadata properties on DOMImplementation#createDocument. (06master...06createDocument-meta) 02https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1322
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22:33:25 <gitbot> [13web-platform-tests] 15deniak closed pull request #1323: Update datalistoptions.html to the current spec. (06master...06datalist-options) 02https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1323
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22:33:26 <gitbot> [13web-platform-tests] 15deniak pushed 4 new commits to 06master: 02https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/compare/26af8561ff83...b7aa726452c4
22:33:26 <gitbot> 13web-platform-tests/06master 14c57cdc0 15Ms2ger: Update datalistoptions.html to the current spec.
22:33:26 <gitbot> 13web-platform-tests/06master 14079e5e5 15Ms2ger: Add a test for HTMLCollection#item to datalistoptions.html.
22:33:26 <gitbot> 13web-platform-tests/06master 143f13a75 15Ms2ger: Remove datalistelement.html....
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22:37:16 <seva> topic: The New Process. The new way of the spec to the world
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22:38:14 <seva> Philippe: every single commit, if you want to, can go into the working draft (TR)
22:38:55 <seva> our spec in not on githug
22:39:00 <seva> we are using mercurial
22:40:06 <seva> Philippe: you can install a hook n your side. and notify us on every commit. we will then fetch your document and publish it
22:40:47 <seva> Philippe: we will retain the last version of every day
22:41:22 <seva> Philippe: the group has to make the decision: how often to update the doc
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22:41:35 <seva> Philippe: you may decide "every time the editor wants"
22:42:09 <seva> Philippe: we simply give you a n URI and you can ping it any time. we will go fetch the document etc
22:42:45 <seva> Philippe: and publish to the /TR
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22:44:03 <seva> lukeis: do you have a tutorial on good spec writing?
22:44:11 <seva> Philippe: no. I can think about it if you want
22:44:51 <seva> simonstewart: an editor support group? 12 steps?
22:45:07 <seva> Philippe: not yet.
22:46:03 <seva> MikeSmith: there's a mailing list ... but that's about technical aspects of spec writing
22:46:44 <AutomatedTester> sam_u: https://treeherder.mozilla.org/ui/#/jobs?repo=mozilla-inbound look for Wr jobs
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22:47:10 <seva> MikeSmith: there's a guide/survey of API design mistake that were made in the past. not very useful for this group
22:48:22 <seva> willhelm: I suggest we make a desicion on this. That the editors push to /TR when they want
22:48:26 <seva> everyone: yes
22:48:44 <seva> JohnJansen: I would like to be able to review complex changes first
22:48:56 <seva> AutomatedTester: we could create a fork..
22:49:25 <seva> simonstewart:  under github/w3c
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22:49:54 <gitbot> [13web-platform-tests] 15jacobrossi created 06submission/Microsoft/PointerEvents-ExplicitDone (+1 new commit): 02https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/a1b64945c240
22:49:54 <gitbot> 13web-platform-tests/06submission/Microsoft/PointerEvents-ExplicitDone 14a1b6494 15Jacob Rossi: Add explicit done call to avoid timeout
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22:50:04 <simonstewart> MikeSmith: please can you create a GitHub project under the w3c namespace for the webdriver spec?
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22:50:07 <gitbot> [13web-platform-tests] 15zcorpan closed pull request #1327: Extend the Element#tagName test. (06master...06tagName) 02https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1327
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22:50:08 <gitbot> [13web-platform-tests] 15zcorpan pushed 3 new commits to 06master: 02https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/compare/b7aa726452c4...490c952f58ab
22:50:08 <gitbot> 13web-platform-tests/06master 1432d5020 15Ms2ger: Add more empty lines.
22:50:08 <gitbot> 13web-platform-tests/06master 14bb8e600 15Ms2ger: Add some Element#tagName tests.
22:50:08 <gitbot> 13web-platform-tests/06master 14490c952 15Simon Pieters: Merge pull request #1327 from Ms2ger/tagName...
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22:50:15 <gitbot> [13web-platform-tests] 15jacobrossi opened pull request #1330: Add explicit done call to avoid timeout (06master...06submission/Microsoft/PointerEvents-ExplicitDone) 02https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1330
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22:50:31 <seva> action: MikeSmith: please can you create a GitHub project under the w3c namespace for the webdriver spec?
22:51:02 <seva> JohnJansen: propose use a different irc hash, not #testing
22:51:10 <seva> everyone agrees; tomorrow
22:52:41 <seva> resoution: ask editors push to /TR as often as they want. with John's caviat
22:53:12 <seva> (complex changes won't push without a review: announced in the mailing list)
22:53:27 <seva> topic: Screenshots
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22:53:38 <JohnJansen> John's Caveat: for most (almost all) changes, just push; for anything deemed 'complex' or 'controversial' please have a review before publishing. Also, always send mail to the list.
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22:54:10 <gitbot> [13web-platform-tests] 15jacobrossi closed pull request #1330: Add explicit done call to avoid timeout (06master...06submission/Microsoft/PointerEvents-ExplicitDone) 02https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1330
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22:54:18 <seva> sam_u: spec says that driver should pretend there's an infinitely large monitor
22:54:32 <seva> sam_u: it is hard to implement in chromedriver
22:54:59 <seva> sam_u: what's the most correct thing to do
22:55:10 <seva> sam_u: resizing will trigger a nunch of events etc
22:55:40 <simonstewart> https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=45209
22:55:46 <seva> sam_u: it is sometimes better to show the screenshot of the actual viewport. debugging invisible (off the viewport) elements
22:56:35 <seva> sam_u: I don't know if this is feasible to implement.
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22:57:28 <seva> AutomatedTester: one other aspect there are plugins (different discussion)
22:57:37 <seva> AutomatedTester:  we are trying to see what user sees
22:58:22 <seva> plugins can both modify dom and overlay elements
22:59:33 <seva> AutomatedTester: plugins should be black. accessing flash/plugin content from the page is a attack vector
23:00:46 <seva> simonstewart: one can always make a screenshot at the OS level
23:01:01 <seva> simonstewart: but this is out f scope of this spec
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23:01:41 <gitbot> [13web-platform-tests] 15jacobrossi opened pull request #1331: Fix inconsistent event param (06master...06submission/Microsoft/PointerEvents-EventParam) 02https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1331
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23:02:11 <seva> JohnJansen: I was worried about scrolling into view elements that aren't in there at the test time
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23:03:11 <gitbot> [13web-platform-tests] 15lukeis opened pull request #1332: using wptserve now instead of our own server (06master...06wptserve) 02https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1332
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23:03:56 <seva> JohnJansen:  sometimes I just need to check that the scrollbas os certain length; or how much fits in the viewport
23:04:04 <seva> JohnJansen: and not the entire page
23:04:34 <seva> jgraham: increasingly we see pages that look different in different viewport size
23:04:51 <seva> jgraham: width and height
23:05:16 <seva> JohnJansen: what you want is NOT the full page. example: iphone changed screen size
23:05:40 <seva> willhelm: I see 2 distinct use cases
23:05:59 <seva> willhelm: 1) I want full screenshot 2) I want viewport
23:06:19 <seva> jgraham: a "full page" is a fictional thing. it does not exists
23:06:25 <seva> most people nod
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23:07:57 <MikeSmith> simonstewart, https://github.com/w3c/webdriver
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23:09:16 <gitbot> [13web-platform-tests] 15jacobrossi closed pull request #1331: Fix inconsistent event param (06master...06submission/Microsoft/PointerEvents-EventParam) 02https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1331
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23:09:17 <gitbot> [13web-platform-tests] 15jacobrossi pushed 2 new commits to 06master: 02https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/compare/76e0fde3e1d4...b924bffd5f35
23:09:17 <gitbot> 13web-platform-tests/06master 1459f4007 15Jacob Rossi: Fix inconsistent event param
23:09:17 <gitbot> 13web-platform-tests/06master 14b924bff 15Jacob Rossi: Merge pull request #1331 from InternetExplorer/submission/Microsoft/PointerEvents-EventParam...
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23:09:42 <simonstewart> MikeSmith: Thank you. I'll figure out how to get our existing hg repo there
23:09:53 <simonstewart> I assume that AutomatedTester and I have write permissions?
23:09:59 <MikeSmith> yeah
23:10:15 <MikeSmith> I can copy the sources and history over
23:10:32 <MikeSmith> if that's OK with you guys, i'll go ahead and do it
23:10:46 <seva> ato: infinitely scrolling pages, like twitter.com
23:11:50 <AutomatedTester> MikeSmith: yes please
23:11:55 <MikeSmith> hai
23:12:42 <seva> sam_u: what's going to be less surprising?
23:13:16 <seva> simonstewart: users are surprized when they see a small window
23:13:34 <seva> jgraham: they should not be. they may be upset.
23:15:15 <seva> ato: we support element screenshots. what is element is larger than screenshot?
23:15:41 <seva> JoshJansen: scroll to 0,0, take screenshot of the viewport. thats inthe spec, no?
23:16:26 <seva> jgraham: based on the doc position before css transforms... ?
23:17:35 <seva> AutomatedTester: for element that;s bigger then the viewport. we scrool to 0,,0 of that element
23:18:02 <seva> JohnJansen: scroll as scrollIntoView in the spec prescribed
23:18:16 <seva> AutomatedTester: then take screenshot of the viewport
23:18:38 <seva> err.. of the element, but not larger than the viewport
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23:21:05 <seva> screenshot of the element cropped to the viewport
23:21:10 <seva> resolution: ^
23:22:02 <Automate_> s/viewport/getClientBoundingRect()/
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23:23:12 <seva> jgraham: if element if not at all in the viewport after scrollintoview, then the result screenshot is 0x0 png
23:23:54 <seva> willhelm: if element is partially in the viewport, then the result screenshot is the visible part of the element
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23:26:48 <seva> action: make some prose out of the last ~20 decisions scribed above
23:27:02 <Automate_> ACTION: Create algorithm for "for element that;s bigger then the viewport. we scroll to 0,0 of that element. If the element can not be fully scrolled take a screenshot of the element that is in the viewport" for takesElementScreenshot
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23:27:21 <seva> (regarding screenshots of the full page and of element)
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23:30:14 <seva> jgraham: on full page screenshot : noone want to implement, and it is wrong. so we settle on the viewport only
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23:31:06 <AutomatedTester> ACTION: takeScreenshot to only return viewport of the browser
23:31:24 <seva> Automatedtester: (has a little notebook where he wrote all screenshot related decisions down)
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23:35:09 <seva> seva: proposes something else other than 0x0 image for invisible element's screenshot
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23:35:45 <seva> Done for the day!!!
23:37:00 <seva> RRSAgent: bye
23:37:00 <RRSAgent> I see 15 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-testing-actions.rdf :
23:37:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: clarify that you  don't send body with GET requests [1]
23:37:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-testing-irc#T17-45-29
23:37:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: make the body of the requests just the parameters object and nothing else [2]
23:37:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-testing-irc#T17-47-23
23:37:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: clarify how to send no parameters [3]
23:37:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-testing-irc#T17-47-45
23:37:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ato to add intermediate nodes as an example use case [4]
23:37:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-testing-irc#T18-09-03
23:37:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ato ask Anne if TC39 should be used [5]
23:37:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-testing-irc#T18-10-46
23:37:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: add recommendations in the spec about per server path prefix [6]
23:37:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-testing-irc#T18-20-05
23:37:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: assign status code to each error [7]
23:37:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-testing-irc#T18-36-46
23:37:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: explicitly specify that webdriver implementation is expected to own all paths under its prefix? [8]
23:37:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-testing-irc#T18-38-40
23:37:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ato to define the pre-steps, error handling, algorithm and serialization definition for all cases in general [9]
23:37:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-testing-irc#T18-41-15
23:37:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: specify which headers we expect: cache-control and content-type [10]
23:37:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-testing-irc#T18-47-06
23:37:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Simon and David to setup dedicated time [11]
23:37:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-testing-irc#T21-18-01
23:37:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: MikeSmith: please can you create a GitHub project under the w3c namespace for the webdriver spec? [12]
23:37:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-testing-irc#T22-50-31
23:37:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: make some prose out of the last ~20 decisions scribed above [13]
23:37:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-testing-irc#T23-26-48
23:37:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Create algorithm for "for element that;s bigger then the viewport. we scroll to 0,0 of that element. If the element can not be fully scrolled take a screenshot of the element that is in the viewport" for takesElementScreenshot [14]
23:37:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-testing-irc#T23-27-02
23:37:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: takeScreenshot to only return viewport of the browser [15]
23:37:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-testing-irc#T23-31-06
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