15:44:24 RRSAgent has joined #ua 15:44:24 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/10/27-ua-irc 15:44:26 RRSAgent, make logs public 15:44:26 Zakim has joined #ua 15:44:28 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 15:44:28 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()11:30AM scheduled to start 14 minutes ago 15:44:29 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 15:44:29 Date: 27 October 2014 15:44:50 rrsagent, set logs public 15:44:54 rrsagent, this meeting spans midnight 15:47:48 AllanJ_ has joined #ua 15:48:14 clapierre has joined #UA 15:49:13 Jan has joined #ua 15:50:55 WAI_UAWG()11:30AM has now started 15:51:02 +[Microsoft] 15:51:58 zakim, Microsoft is really Kelly 15:51:58 +Kelly; got it 15:53:55 http://jspellman.github.io/UAAG-LC-Comment/ 15:54:48 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2014/F2Fagenda20141027 15:57:49 k has joined #ua 15:57:50 zakim, agenda? 15:57:50 I see nothing on the agenda 15:58:53 agenda: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2014/F2Fagenda20141027 16:03:20 Greg has joined #ua 16:04:33 tests: https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Tests_for_CR#Principle_1:_Perceivable 16:04:37 OK 16:06:05 +Greg_Lowney 16:12:31 Ralph has joined #ua 16:12:35 zakim, who's on the phone? 16:12:35 On the phone I see Kelly, Greg_Lowney 16:12:44 +Ralph 16:13:45 zakim, call suite1242 16:13:45 ok, Ralph; the call is being made 16:13:47 +Suite1242 16:14:37 -Ralph 16:16:55 Ralph has left #ua 16:21:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trident_(layout_engine) 16:21:38 scribe: allanj 16:22:10 discussion of rendering engines vs UI 16:22:20 rrsagent, make minutes 16:22:20 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/27-ua-minutes.html kford 16:23:04 chrome, opera = blink, firefox = gecko, IE = mshtml, safari = webkit 16:29:21 topic: what's implemented 16:29:39 desktop - V 16:29:46 desktop - http://w3c.github.io/UAAG-Implementations/desktop.html 16:31:02 in browser column: Pass/Fail 16:31:53 in the browser notes: if plugin/extension required (with url), 16:32:38 include steps for settings or how to cause something to work 16:34:08 Joshue has joined #ua 16:35:14 topic: implementation testing 16:38:56 browser assignments - Greg=Safari, Jan=Chrome, Jeanne=Firefox, Kelly=IE, Jim=Opera, Kim=mercury 16:39:50 *Kelly, Charles LaPierre here I am observing, thought I would say Hi!* 16:40:00 kim-mercury on the iPhone 16:49:53 Jan has joined #ua 16:49:57 http://www.w3.org/WAI/demos/bad/before/survey.html 16:52:12 Firefox, 1.3.1, Test 1, Pass 16:53:06 FireFox 33.0.1 on Mac, Test 1, Pass 16:53:08 Chrome_Windows_v38, 1.3.1, Test 1, Pass 16:53:08 opera v25 1.3.1 test 1 - pass 16:54:20 gl: need to see that selection is different from focus 16:54:27 jr: missing test 16:56:50 kf: hightlighting definition does not include requirement for communication thru API. 16:57:27 ... when screen readers used off-screen models we knew where SR got the information. 16:58:32 this test has nothing to do with programmatic access, is it implicitly assumed that programmatic access is incuded 17:02:37 gl: test procedure 3? doesn't seem right 17:04:07 http://www.w3.org/WAI/demos/bad/after/survey.html 17:04:55 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ 17:05:17 http://www.w3.org/ 17:05:49 http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/CR20/WCAG2_HTML_Problem_File_Fixed.html 17:11:40 Chrome_Windows_v38, 1.3.1, Test 2, Pass 17:12:59 Firefox 33, 1.3.1, Test 2, Pass 17:14:37 Chrome_Windows_v38, 1.3.1, Test 3, Pass (assuming that a flashing cursor is enough of a highlighting for text areas) 17:14:43 To test #3 you need to have both enabled and disabled elements. I used Safari's built-in debugger to add the "disabled" attribute to the INPUT element used for last name, then verified that it is rendered looking differently than the other INPUT, still enabled element. 17:15:12 Chrome_Windows_v38, 1.3.1, Test 4, Pass 17:15:25 Chrome_Windows_v38, 1.3.1, Test 5, Pass 17:15:35 However, the instructions for Test Procedure 3 are incorrect. This is not about which element is selected or has focus, but whether all the enabled elements can be distinguished at a glance from their disabled counterparts. 17:15:38 Chrome_Windows_v38, 1.3.1, Test 6, Pass 17:16:20 Firefox 33, 1.3.1, Test 4, Pass 17:16:56 IE_v11, 1.3.1, test 1, pass 17:17:05 IE_v11, 1.3.1, test 2, pass 17:17:11 IE_v11, 1.3.1, test 3, pass 17:17:16 IE_v11, 1.3.1, test 4, pass 17:17:23 IE_v11, 1.3.1, test 5, pass 17:18:35 The test document referenced should be referred to as "test page with rendered text and enabled *and disabled* elements". 17:20:33 IE_v11, 1.3.1, test 6, pass (search term is highlighted white on blue, if you select something after searching, the search will change color to black on yellow, and selection is white on blue) 17:20:45 Ideally they would check each element type to verify that the enabled and disabled appearances are different. 17:24:25 clapierre has joined #UA 17:25:54 js: we need to have a place where we say "all of the test must pass" 17:26:15 jr: edited 17:28:15 http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/CR20/WCAG2_HTML_Problem_File_Fixed.html 17:30:48 https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/1.3.1 17:31:46 safari ios8 on ipad test 1 pass 17:31:47 safari ios8 on ipad test 2 pass 17:31:49 mercury v8.7.2 1.3.1 test 1 pass 17:31:50 mercury v8.7.2 1.3.1 test 2 pass 17:33:26 Firefox 33, 1.3.1, Test 3, Pass (although the difference between enabled and disabled text entry areas is visually minimal) 17:33:27 js: what is purpose of test 3, do we need it. what is the a11y case 17:34:09 kp, and jr: it is needed to know what you can interact with before you get to it. 17:39:11 Firefox 33, 1.3.1, Test 5, Pass 17:39:18 Firefox 33, 1.3.1, Test 6, Pass 17:41:05 Safari 7.1, 1.3.1 passes all 6 tests (although the distinction between enabled and disabled elements is far too subtle) 17:41:25 Firefox 33, 1.3.1, 1-6 tests pass (Note: For Test 3 the difference between enabled and disabled text entry areas is visually minimal) 17:42:52 IE_v11, 1.3.1, 1-6 pass, note6 (search term is highlighted white on blue, if you select something after searching, the search will change color to black on yellow, and selection is white on blue), 17:45:14 Chrome_Windows_v38, 1.3.1, passes 1-6 tests 17:48:13 safari ios8 on ipad test 1,2,4 pass, 5 fail (no find in page function), 3, 6 needed disabled element – not tested 17:48:15 mercury v8.7.2 1.3.1 test 1,2,4 pass, 5 fail (no find in page function), 3, 6 needed disabled element – not tested 17:51:02 Tweet to a table of focusable elements in HTML -> https://twitter.com/rodneyrehm/status/526655289643515904 17:56:16 FireFox 33.0.1 Mac 1-6 tests Pass 18:21:32 clapierre has joined #UA 18:22:10 https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/1.3.2 18:24:31 http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/CR20/WCAG2_HTML_Problem_File_Fixed.html 18:25:27 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014OctDec/att-0027/form2.htm 18:30:23 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/CR-UAAG2/SampleFiles/TextElementsSamples.html 18:34:48 Update mercury v8.7.2 1.3.1 test 1,2,4 pass, 5 pass with Search in Page extension; 3, 6 needed disabled element – not tested 18:38:33 topic: test 1.3.2 18:39:01 In Test Procedure 1 it doesn't actually say to select any text or do other things that should highlight anything. 18:46:20 If we have this question do our docks need to answer it better given we are asking it of ourselves? 18:46:23 ja: what does 'size when the indicator is an image' mean/ 18:46:56 note: puffin browser has a trackpad mouse 18:47:51 gl: in google, the indicator of the current item in the search results was an image. the image would need to be resized. if not used mark as NA 18:49:51 jr: user stylesheets are complicated, and most users wont use them. what is the requirement for the browser to allow changes to rendering of information. 18:50:15 gl: Ideally the UA would provide a robust UI to do this, but not likely to happen. 18:50:48 In OS X Mavericks, you can choose between two and only two colors for highlighting keyboard focus: light blue, and gray. Safari does respect that choice, although it's of minimal value because it's so limited. 18:52:03 On the other hand, OS X Mavericks supports any highlight color for selected text (not just two choices). 18:55:01 Jan has joined #ua 18:57:02 Jan_ has joined #ua 18:57:35 Firefox_for_Windows_v33 1.3.2 Test 1- Text selection PASS? - picks up OS selected item color (but can't change borders) 19:03:29 Firefox_for_Windows_v33 1.3.2 Test 2- Keyboard Focus PASS? - using Stylish add-on 19:06:06 Firefox_for_Windows_v33 1.3.2 Test 2- Keyboard Focus PASS? - using Stylish add-on (Native support removed) 19:08:22 timeless has joined #ua 19:08:24 I'm logging. I don't understand 'this meeting spans midnight <- if you want a single log for the two days', timeless. Try /msg RRSAgent help 19:08:27 timeless has left #ua 19:09:52 Perfect Browser has a setting to enable 25 comment browser keyboard shortcuts for a Bluetooth keyboard: Settings/External keyboard shortcuts 19:10:05 FireFox 33.0.1 Mac using Stylish add-on could Pass for test 2 19:10:45 Safari 7.1 on OS X Mavericks: 1.3.2: Test Procedure 1: Fail. (It respects the OS's preference for highlight background color, but does not allow changing foreground color automatically or manually, so some combinations are unreadable. No border support.) 19:11:23 IE_v11_windows 1.3.2 Test 1, (internet options > general > colors > uncheck Windows Colors, then set whatever color for the 5 items. you can set background, IE takes care of contrasting foreground. NA on Foreground, Borders, Blinkrate 19:12:57 IE_v11_windows 1.3.2 Test 2, menu: tools>accessibility>check 'format documents using my style sheet', user must create style sheet, NA on size and blink rate 19:13:10 Safari 7.1 on OS X Mavericks: 1.3.2: Test Procedure 2: Fail. ( only allow changing the border color between light blue and light gray, and not the thickness, etc.) 19:37:42 -Greg_Lowney 19:56:18 -Kelly 20:00:16 kford has joined #ua 20:20:02 clapierre has joined #UA 20:21:35 +Greg_Lowney 20:21:54 Joshue has joined #ua 20:23:14 Back from lunch... 20:27:37 rrsagent, make minutes 20:27:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/27-ua-minutes.html AllanJ 20:33:06 k has joined #ua 20:36:37 https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Tests_for_CR 20:40:34 topic: at risk element 1.2.1 20:42:07 bullet 2: change to" If the user agent makes available metadata related to the non-text content available programmatically, but not via fields reserved for text alternatives" or 20:42:11 eliminate it. 20:42:54 Proposal: remove bullet 2 for 1.2.1. and rewrite 1.2.1 20:44:30 1.2.1 Support Repair by Assistive Technologies: If text alternatives for non-text content are missing or empty, the user agent doesn't attempt to repair the text alternatives by substituting text values that are also available to assistive technologies (e.g. image file name). 20:48:47 http://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG10/guidelines.html#tech-null-alt 20:48:54 This is to avoid problems when (for example) the metadata in an image does not match the way it's being used on the current page. It allows a screen reader to distinguish between metadata provided by the page author, who knows the image's use here, vs. metadata tagging along from some long-ago source. 20:51:39 For example, John is creating a web page that uses an image of a check mark for "Selected". He grabs a PNG file from another site, not realizing that it's embedded IPTC TITLE attribute says "You are a winner!". John should set alt, but if he forgets to, it's better for a screen reader to say "image, I don't know what it means" than to say "image, You're a winner!" 20:52:13 kford has joined #ua 20:55:02 no browser does the above. 20:55:47 any objections to new wording for 1.2.1 20:55:51 none heard 20:56:33 RESOLUTION: 1.2.1 Support Repair by Assistive Technologies: If text alternatives for non-text content are missing or empty, the user agent doesn't attempt to repair the text alternatives by substituting text values that are also available to assistive technologies (e.g. image file name). (AA) 20:58:50 topic: at risk, 1.2.2 20:59:00 action: Jeanne to update the IER of 1.2.1 to reflect removing the metadata component. 20:59:00 Created ACTION-1040 - Update the ier of 1.2.1 to reflect removing the metadata component. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-11-03]. 20:59:52 jr: you can only test to see if there is a UI component for turning on off feature. but what would the test file look like. how would we know if the UA did the right thing? 21:00:07 recommend removing this SC 21:03:53 RESOLUTION: mark @@ATRISK of removal, write Simon, can you come up with a test of expected behavior of the browser. separate from does the UI component exist. 21:06:09 topic: at risk 1.3.2 21:14:28 RESOLUTION: rewrite 1.3.2 break into separate items to make testing easier 21:15:05 action: Jan to rewrite 1.3.2 to make testing easier 21:15:05 Created ACTION-1041 - Rewrite 1.3.2 to make testing easier [on Jan Richards - due 2014-11-03]. 21:16:10 topic at risk 1.8.8 21:18:12 should actually be 1.8.6 21:18:43 "at the same location" is confusing 21:21:24 gl: if the entirety of the point of regard is in the viewport when scaled, its ok. if larger than the viewport then some portion must remain in the viewport. 21:23:21 Note that the point of regard is NOT a point, but an element or range (e.g. button or selected text). 21:24:47 GL: When the point of regard is larger than the viewport, the user agent should emphasize the corner that is first according to the current language's reading order (e.g. Uppler-left corner for English) 21:25:53 1.8.6 Maintain Point of Regard: The point of regard remains visible within the viewport when the viewport is resized, when content is zoomed or scaled, or when content formatting is changed. (Level A) Note: When the point of regard is larger than the viewport, the user agent should emphasize the corner that is first according to the current language's reading order (e.g. Uppler-left corner... 21:25:54 ...for English) 21:28:19 1.8.6 Maintain Point of Regard: The point of regard remains visible within the viewport when the viewport is resized, when content is zoomed or scaled, or when content formatting is changed. (Level A) Note: When the point of regard is larger than the viewport, the user agent should keep visible the leading corner of the point of regard according to the current language's reading order (e.g.... 21:28:20 ...Upper-left corner for English). 21:30:05 1.8.6 Maintain Point of Regard: The point of regard remains visible within the viewport when the viewport is resized, when content is zoomed or scaled, or when content formatting is changed. (Level A) Note: When the point of regard is larger than the viewport, the user agent should keep visible the beginning of the point of regard according to the current language's reading order (e.g. first... 21:30:07 ...character or upper-left corner of an image in English). 21:31:37 1.8.6 Maintain Point of Regard: The point of regard remains visible within the viewport when the viewport is resized, when content is zoomed or scaled, or when content formatting is changed. (Level A) Note: When the point of regard is larger than the viewport, the user agent keeps visible the beginning of the point of regard according to the current language's reading order (e.g. at least... 21:31:39 ...the first character in English). 21:31:49 For text, ideally have the entire range visible. If it's larger than the viewport, as much as possible of the text should be visible, including the beginning of the text according to its language's reading order. 21:33:09 1.8.6 Maintain Point of Regard: The point of regard remains visible within the viewport when the viewport is resized, when content is zoomed or scaled, or when content formatting is changed. (Level A) Note: When the point of regard is larger than the viewport, the user agent keeps visible the beginning of the point of regard according to the current language's reading order (e.g. top-left in... 21:33:11 ...English). 21:38:27 RESOLUTION: change 1.8.6 Maintain Point of Regard: The point of regard remains visible within the viewport when the viewport is resized, when content is zoomed or scaled, or when content formatting is changed. (Level A) Note: When the point of regard is larger than the viewport, the user agent keeps visible the beginning of the point of regard according to the current language's reading... 21:38:28 ...order (e.g. top-left in English) 21:38:35 For text, ideally have the entire range visible. If it's larger than the viewport, as many characters as possible should be visible, including the first character according to its language's reading order. If the entire first character is larger than the viewport, the leading portion of the character should be visible (e.g. the upper left corner for English). 21:39:26 topic: at risk 1.9.9 should just be headings 21:39:47 1.9.1 Outline View: Users can view a navigable outline of the rendered content that allows focus to be moved to the corresponding element in the main viewport. (Level AA) Note: The elements reflected in the outline view depend on the web content technology, and may include headings, table captions, and content sections. 21:39:53 s/1.9.9/1.9.1 21:42:44 1.9.1 Outline View: Users can view a navigable outline of named regions in the rendered content that allows focus to be moved to the corresponding region in the main viewport. (Level AA) 21:42:54 named regions (e.g. defined by headings, ARIA Landmark, or table captions) 21:43:18 Defn: Named Regions: ... 21:44:09 Named Regions: elements or ranges of content which the author has provided with a human-readable name. 21:44:58 Examples include regions defined by headings, ARIA landmarks, and table captions. 21:46:32 1.9.1 Outline View: Users can view a navigable outline of the headings in the rendered content that allows focus to be moved to the corresponding element in the main viewport. (Level AA) 21:50:31 Named Regions: elements or ranges of content that have recognized, author-provided, human-readable names (i.e. names conveyed in attribute fields defined as being for human readers). 21:52:33 Note: An outline view might also include other named elements. 21:54:00 Note: An outline view might also include other named elements such as document landmarks. 21:54:33 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_ARIA_landmarks_to_identify_regions_of_a_page 21:57:53 aria landmark roles http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/roles#landmark_roles 21:58:21 1.9.1 Outline View: Users can view a navigable outline of the headings in the rendered content that allows focus to be moved to the corresponding element in the main viewport. (Level AA) Note: An outline view might also include other named elements such as document landmarks. 21:58:36 RESOLUTION: change 1.9.1 Outline View: Users can view a navigable outline of the headings in the rendered content that allows focus to be moved to the corresponding element in the main viewport. (Level AA) Note: An outline view might also include other named elements such as document landmarks. 21:59:39 topic: at risk 1.10.1 what do we test 21:59:55 1.10.1 Show Related Elements: The user can access the information from explicitly-defined relationships in the content, including at least the following: (Level AA) - label for a control or image (e.g. HTML label element, figcaption or aria-labelledby attributes) - caption for a table - row and column labels for a table cell 22:06:41 discussion, "control" is problematic 22:07:03 jr: at least one type of label for each type of control or label. 22:11:58 ... point of this was to make this information available to non-screen reader users. 22:14:59 jr: there are still many ways to label a control. could we use the 'accessible name' in the a11y api and reveal to user with a mechanism like right click on image in FF to get properties 22:15:40 http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/roles#textalternativecomputation 22:16:54 There is the Firefox extension for navigating Aria Landmarks. http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/roles#landmark_roles The actual download of the extension is https://github.com/matatk/landmarks/releases 22:17:12 1.10.1 Show Related Elements: The user can access the information from explicitly-defined relationships in the content, including at least the following: (Level AA) 22:17:13 (a) calculated accessible name for images 22:17:15 (b) calculated accessible name for controls 22:17:16 (c) caption for a table 22:17:18 (d) row and column labels for a table cell 22:18:34 1.10.1 Show Related Elements: The user can access the information from explicitly-defined relationships in the content, including at least the following: (Level AA)(a) calculated accessible name for images (b) calculated accessible name for controls (e.g. form fields, buttons) (c) captions for tables (d) row and column labels for table cells 22:19:59 1.10.1 Show Related Elements: The user can access the information from explicitly-defined relationships in the content, including at least the following: (Level AA)(a) calculated accessible name for images (b) calculated accessible name for controls (e.g. form fields, buttons) (c) captions for tables (d) row and column labels for table cells [defn of using calculated accessible name http://www.w 22:20:00 3.org/TR/wai-aria/roles#textalternativecomputation] 22:20:48 AllanJ has joined #ua 22:20:59 rrsagent, make minutes 22:20:59 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/27-ua-minutes.html AllanJ 22:23:22 1.10.1 Show Related Elements: Users can view the information from explicitly-defined relationships in the content, including at least the following: (Level AA)(a) calculated accessible name for images (b) calculated accessible name for controls (e.g. form fields, buttons) (c) captions for tables (d) row and column labels for table cells 22:23:53 1.9.2 Source View: 22:23:54 The user can view all source text that is available to the user agent. (Level AAA) 22:24:30 1.10.1 Show Related Elements: Users can view information from explicitly-defined relationships in the content, including at least the following: (Level AA)(a) calculated accessible name for images (b) calculated accessible name for controls (e.g. form fields, buttons) (c) captions for tables (d) row and column labels for table cells 22:25:01 RESOLUTION: 1.10.1 Show Related Elements: Users can view information from explicitly-defined relationships in the content, including at least the following: (Level AA)(a) calculated accessible name for images (b) calculated accessible name for controls (e.g. form fields, buttons) (c) captions for tables (d) row and column labels for table cells 22:25:36 change 1.10.1, now is testable 22:27:05 Zakim, commands 22:27:05 I don't understand 'commands', clapierre 22:27:21 DEFN: calculated accessible name: The text equivalent computation is the name or description that they then publish through the accessibility API. {EXPLAIN why this is used} 22:27:39 assumes that UA will provide a UI for 1.10.1 22:27:42 Zakim, commands? 22:27:42 I don't understand your question, clapierre. 22:36:14 kford_ has joined #ua 22:48:41 Zakim, help 22:48:41 Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help. 22:48:43 Some of the commands I know are: 22:48:43 xxx is yyy - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx 22:48:43 if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted 22:48:43 xxx may be yyy - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx 22:48:43 I am xxx - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx 22:48:43 xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group 22:48:44 xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx 22:48:44 who's here? - lists the participants on the phone 22:48:44 who's muted? - lists the participants who are muted 22:48:44 mute xxx - mutes party xxx (like pressing 61#) 22:48:44 unmute xxx - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61# 22:48:45 is xxx here? - reports whether a party named like xxx is present 22:48:45 list conferences - reports the active conferences 22:48:46 this is xxx - associates this channel with conference xxx 22:48:46 excuse us - disconnects from the irc channel 22:48:46 I last learned something new on $Date: 2013-03-03 19:18:47 $ 22:50:17 Zakim, list agenda 22:50:17 I see nothing on the agenda 22:54:02 AllanJ, test 22:57:34 back from break 22:58:29 action: allanj to review duplicate items, make a proposal 22:58:29 Error finding 'allanj'. You can review and register nicknames at . 22:58:51 action: jallan to review duplicate items, make a proposal 22:58:51 Created ACTION-1042 - Review duplicate items, make a proposal [on Jim Allan - due 2014-11-03]. 23:00:15 kford has joined #ua 23:02:48 jeanne has joined #ua 23:11:54 topic: at risk 2.2.2 23:12:00 http://pic.dhe.ibm.com/infocenter/cities/v1r5m0/index.jsp?topic=%2Fcom.ibm.citieshelp.doc%2Fdoc_keyboard.html frame test page 23:12:37 http://www-archive.mozilla.org/docs/end-user/moz_shortcuts.html 23:13:14 +[Microsoft] 23:17:26 jr: what we really mean is sequential navigation between containers of controls (UAUI, nav areas, iframe, frame, main content area) 23:19:18 jr: is there something testable we can use, or make it only top level and only navigate from tab to tab 23:22:54 top-level viewport: A viewport that is not contained within another viewport of a platform-based user agent. Web-based user agents are always displayed inside another viewport, and therefore are never top-level viewports. A popular browser implementation is to provide a window that includes some UA user interface elements (e.g., menus) and a series of tabbed panels, each of which... 23:22:56 ...contains additional UA user interface elements (e.g., address bar, bookmarks, back/forward buttons) and a top-level viewport for rendering a view of the addressed web resource. 23:26:14 jr: get frame navigation. but we need to generalize. then how is browser to recognize the myriad ways to make a 'viewport" with or without scrollbars 23:28:20 JR: [[[A B C] D E F [G H I]]] 23:28:31 JR: Warping A D G 23:33:26 2.2.1 Sequential Navigation Between Elements: The user can move the keyboard focus backwards and forwards through all recognized enabled elements in the rendered content of the current viewport. (Level A) 23:33:36 2.2.2 Sequential Navigation Between Viewports: The user can move the keyboard focus backwards and forwards between viewports, without having to sequentially navigate all the elements in a viewport. (Level A) 23:33:46 rrsagent, make minutes 23:33:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/27-ua-minutes.html AllanJ 23:35:13 2.2.2 Sequential Navigation Between Element Groupings: The user can move the keyboard focus backwards and forwards between at least one type of element groupings in the current top-level viewport. (Level AA) 23:39:13 2.2.2 Sequential Navigation Between Element Groupings: The user can move the keyboard focus backwards and forwards between the first recognized enabled elements in certain element groupings. (Level AA) 23:44:35 2.2.2 Sequential Navigation By Landmarks: The user can move the keyboard focus backwards and forwards between a recognized enabled elements marked by landmarks. (Level AA) 23:45:11 2.2.2 Sequential Navigation By Landmarks: The user can move the keyboard focus backwards and forwards between recognized enabled elements marked by landmarks. (Level AA) 23:45:26 2.2.2 Sequential Navigation By Landmarks: The user can move the keyboard focus backwards and forwards between recognized enabled elements marked by document landmarks. (Level AA) 23:45:52 gl: are landmarks the same as frames or iframes 23:46:45 http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/roles#document_structure_roles 23:47:08 http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/roles#landmark_roles 23:49:20 2.2.2 Sequential Navigation By Landmarks: The user can move the keyboard focus backwards and forwards between recognized enabled elements marked by document landmarks. (Level AA) 23:50:44 2.2.2 Sequential Navigation By Landmarks: The user can move the keyboard focus backwards and forwards between recognized enabled elements in regions identified by document landmarks. (Level AA) 23:51:09 rrsagent, make minutes 23:51:09 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/27-ua-minutes.html jeanne 23:54:26 2.2.2 Sequential Navigation By Landmarks: The user can move the keyboard focus backwards and forwards between recognized enabled elements to regions identified by document landmarks. (Level AA) 23:55:28 kf: does this mean only aria landmarks. no browsers do this 23:55:38 ja; there are extensions that do this. 23:57:05 rssagent, make minutes 23:59:18 keyboard between frames and iframes navigation is broken across most browsers 23:59:57 s/ keyboard between frames and iframes navigation is broken across most browsers/ keyboard navigation between frames and iframes is broken across most browsers 00:01:05 https://github.com/matatk/landmarks/releases 00:01:12 Jan has joined #ua 00:03:26 -[Microsoft] 00:04:14 Hi all – 00:04:14   00:04:14 Several of us from Benetech will be hosting an informal get together Thursday at the conclusion of the day’s sessions.  Please join us in Parcel 104 at 6.   The first drink’s on us.     00:04:14   00:04:14 We look forward to bringing you up to date on the latest accessibility developments we’ve been spearheading at Benetech – and to brief you on our new “Born Accessible” initiative designed to help content creators make their content not only born digital but born accessible.     00:04:14   00:04:14 We look forward to seeing you! 00:04:15   00:04:15 Charles, Mark, Anh, and Robin 00:04:29 AllanJ has joined #ua 00:04:41 rrsagent, make minutes 00:04:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/27-ua-minutes.html AllanJ 00:05:24 rrsagent, make minutes 00:05:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/27-ua-minutes.html jeanne 00:05:38 Greg has joined #ua 00:06:13 present+ Kim, Jim, Jeanne, Jan, Kelly, Greg, Charles_LaPierre(Benetech) 00:06:28 chair: Jim, Kelly 00:06:44 Jan_ has joined #ua 00:08:11 rrsagent, make minutes 00:08:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/27-ua-minutes.html jeanne 00:12:59 kford has joined #ua 00:15:27 -Suite1242 00:15:34 -Greg_Lowney 00:15:35 WAI_UAWG()11:30AM has ended 00:15:35 Attendees were Kelly, Greg_Lowney, Ralph, Suite1242, [Microsoft] 00:23:36 need to add an SC such that what the browser renders is accessible, form place holder text fails contrast test. 00:23:56 rrsagent, make minutes 00:23:56 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/27-ua-minutes.html AllanJ 01:15:51 Zakim has left #ua