13:59:27 RRSAgent has joined #tt 13:59:27 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-tt-irc 13:59:29 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:59:29 Zakim has joined #tt 13:59:31 Zakim, this will be TTML 13:59:31 ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute 13:59:32 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 13:59:32 Date: 23 October 2014 14:00:07 zakim, who is on the phone? 14:00:07 SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has not yet started, nigel 14:00:09 On IRC I see RRSAgent, jdsmith, nigel, glenn, trackbot 14:00:31 zakim, this is ttml 14:00:32 ok, nigel; that matches SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM 14:01:39 zakim, who is on the phone? 14:01:39 On the phone I see jdsmith, nigel 14:02:02 chair: nigel 14:02:11 Present: jdsmith, nigel 14:02:46 Regrets: Mike 14:03:08 courtney has joined #tt 14:03:41 + +1.408.771.aaaa 14:04:03 zakim, aaaa is courtney 14:04:03 +courtney; got it 14:04:34 Present+ courtney 14:04:54 scribeNick: nigel 14:07:21 +pal 14:07:40 Present+ pal 14:08:28 Topic: Santa Clara F2F October (TPAC) 14:08:34 https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/tpac2014 14:11:35 nigel: I've set aside Monday for a variety of things and Tuesday for TTML2, and added multimodal interaction and audio rendering. 14:13:17 jdsmith: Will the audio rendering include use cases and scenarios 14:13:28 nigel: Yes, e.g. audio description scripting or captured speech markup 14:14:26 +glenn 14:14:33 Present+ glenn 14:15:40 nigel: In the absence of other info I'll define lunch to be at 12:30 14:16:06 ... and morning break at 10:00 and afternoon break 15:30. 14:16:12 ... but of course we can be flexible. 14:16:52 Topic: IMSC CR Exit Criteria 14:18:03 nigel: We have a choice about putting in exit criteria. I've listed some considerations in the agenda. 14:18:14 pal has joined #tt 14:18:55 pal: I'm still gathering information. There are already entry criteria for PR. Those steps are clear. 14:19:46 nigel: The steps are clear but the fulfillment of them is unclear to me - at least we have quite a lot of flexibility. 14:20:03 pal: That's deliberate; some flexibility is useful for the working group. 14:20:34 nigel: Yes, and for this document we have to resolve the flexibility into a decision. 14:22:42 pal: Section 7.2.4 describes the implementation considerations. 14:23:51 nigel: There are a whole bunch of other questions that fall under those too (e.g. what's listed in the agenda) 14:24:06 http://www.w3.org/2014/Process-20140801/#implementation-experience 14:25:23 nigel: My view is it would be useful to state criteria now so we know when to move to PR. 14:25:44 pal: We don't need to do it now though - we can wait until after testing has started. 14:26:15 glenn: The criteria can be as weak as we want to make them. For example the HTML spec followed a weak definition of adequacy. 14:27:00 nigel: I agree: I listed the considerations that we should think about - we don't have to use them all. 14:27:16 glenn: We need a story for each of the bullets in 7.2.4. 14:27:35 pal: In the 2005 process 'adequate implementation experience' was undefined, whereas in the 2014 process 14:27:49 ... it is listed. By definition we have to show the Director we have a good answer for each of those bullets. 14:28:05 glenn: That list isn't exhaustive or mandatory though. It's a 'some of the things that will be considered'. 14:28:29 ... For example, feature implementation will be considered. When we went to CR with TTML1 originally we faced the issue 14:28:50 ... of what it means to specify a feature. This was related to the test suite requirements, and that drove our definition 14:29:02 ... of features in the profiling mechanism, and our enumeration of those features in the spec. 14:29:24 ... By enumerating them that gave us a list of things we knew we had to test and talk about re implementation activity. 14:29:37 ... That's how we did it in TTML1. We can define features for testing however we want. 14:30:02 pal: In my view the WG should keep its options open so it can declare when it thinks it has got far enough to move to PR. 14:30:25 glenn: I agree with that. The point about feature implementation is expected to be talked about in the transition process. 14:30:41 ... So you might want to consider enumerating the features of IMSC that would be considered criteria for testing 14:30:55 ... implementations. It doesn't require that every syntactic or semantic point be labelled as a feature - it can be 14:30:59 ... generalised for example. 14:31:17 pal: I started a wiki page where we will be able to do that, which will also serve as the implementation report. 14:31:31 https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/IMSC1_Implementation_Report 14:32:00 pal: This is a place where we'll be able to list the features, sample files and the implementation experience we've 14:32:02 ... received. 14:33:44 nigel: From a project planning perspective we need some deliverable that we can target, and that needs to be defined. 14:33:57 nigel: I'll present my thoughts on Monday on this. 14:34:28 Topic: WebVTT publication 14:34:43 http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/webvtt-staged-snapshot.html 14:35:40 Proposal: publish the staged snapshot of WebVTT as a FPWD. 14:37:09 RESOLUTION: We will publish the staged snapshot of WebVTT as a FPWD. 14:38:43 glenn: That draft references the DOM4 spec and the Encoding Spec. I believe there are now W3C counterparts to those. 14:38:53 glenn: Can we change those before going to FPWD? 14:39:20 ... Also HTML - all are referenced as WHATWG and I'd like to see them changed to the W3C versions if that can be done. 14:39:29 ... That's the only blocking issue for me. 14:40:06 nigel: I think the way to do that is to file a bug using the link in the top right. 14:40:10 glenn: okay I'll do that. 14:41:02 s/RESOLUTION: We will publish the staged snapshot of WebVTT as a FPWD./ 14:41:26 nigel: We'll carry this forward proposal to Monday. 14:42:14 Proposal: use http://www.w3.org/TR/webvtt1/ for the short name. 14:42:30 Topic: Action items 14:42:56 action-283? 14:42:56 action-283 -- Nigel Megitt to And dsinger to respond to mpeg liaison -- due 2014-11-01 -- OPEN 14:42:56 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/283 14:43:57 action-283: Mike and Dave responded on TTWG's behalf with edits from Nigel and Cyril. 14:43:58 Notes added to action-283 And dsinger to respond to mpeg liaison. 14:44:19 close action-283 14:44:19 Closed action-283. 14:44:30 action-332? 14:44:30 action-332 -- Glenn Adams to Add schema support for ISD vocabulary -- due 2014-10-27 -- OPEN 14:44:30 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/332 14:45:00 glenn: Still working on this one. 14:45:14 action-333? 14:45:14 action-333 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Create a one pager to cover the plan for the director's meeting for taking imsc1 to cr. -- due 2014-10-27 -- OPEN 14:45:14 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/333 14:45:45 pal: That's in progress, dependent on completing the response to comments received during the review period, scheduled for Monday. 14:46:32 Topic: Issues raised 14:47:31 nigel: I raised 3 issues to cover the steps needed for the external short code processor profile parameter. 14:47:41 ... In order they are issue-353, issue-351 and issue-352 14:47:45 issue-353? 14:47:45 issue-353 -- Normatively define short code processorProfiles parameter -- raised 14:47:45 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/353 14:47:50 issue-351? 14:47:50 issue-351 -- Update IANA registration for TTML2 -- raised 14:47:50 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/351 14:47:53 issue-352? 14:47:53 issue-352 -- Add Media Registration Annex -- raised 14:47:53 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/352 14:50:48 glenn: I would prefer to put all of these into a separate document, not TTML2. 14:51:02 ... We could publish a WG Note for example that contains these three items. 14:51:35 nigel: Is there any particular reason not to put it in TTML2? 14:51:55 glenn: We had a lot of iterations with IANA to get it into TTML1 so it would be good to disconnect it. 14:52:10 ... Plus there's nothing normative in TTML2 that needs to make reference to it. In fact its the other way round - 14:52:26 ... This material might make reference to TTML2 but nothing in TTML2 normatively needs to make use of it right now. 14:52:41 ... It's strictly a function for people embedding TTML2 in MPEG etc. 14:52:57 nigel: I'd go further - there's no reason it shouldn't apply to TTML1 too. 14:53:17 nigel: We don't have a product for this yet - I guess we can add one. 14:53:41 glenn: Also we need to understand the issue of what it means if both the profile and processorProfiles parameters 14:54:03 ... are included simultaneously. How does that impact backward compatibility etc? 14:54:41 nigel: That makes sense to me as long as e.g. MPEG is happy to reference a WG Note rather than a Recommendation. 14:55:26 Action: nigel Check with the MPEG folk if a WG Note would be acceptable. 14:55:26 Created ACTION-341 - Check with the mpeg folk if a wg note would be acceptable. [on Nigel Megitt - due 2014-10-30]. 14:56:11 Action-341: If a Note is okay, create a Product and reassign issue-351, issue-352 and issue-353 to that product. 14:56:11 Notes added to Action-341 Check with the mpeg folk if a wg note would be acceptable.. 14:56:28 nigel: We'll follow that up on Monday or Tuesday. 14:56:32 re: WebVTT FPWD, see new bug report at https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=27142 to resolve my concerns 14:57:12 Topic: Change Proposals - progress and review 14:57:27 nigel: I should add this topic to the agenda for Tuesday since its a dependency for TTML2 currently. 14:57:45 Action: nigel Add Change Proposals to the TPAC agenda for Tuesday 14:57:46 Created ACTION-342 - Add change proposals to the tpac agenda for tuesday [on Nigel Megitt - due 2014-10-30]. 14:58:32 -courtney 14:58:33 -glenn 14:58:35 -pal 14:58:37 -jdsmith 14:58:52 nigel: We'll meet at 8:30 California time in whatever room we're meeting in - happy travels to those travelling, and see you then. 14:58:57 nigel: Adjourns meeting. 14:59:02 -nigel 14:59:03 SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has ended 14:59:03 Attendees were jdsmith, nigel, +1.408.771.aaaa, courtney, pal, glenn 14:59:18 rrsagent, generate minutes 14:59:18 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:01:01 rrsagent, make logs public 15:01:14 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:01:14 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:07:19 ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 15:07:23 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:07:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:11:48 Zakim has left #tt