14:05:28 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #chairing
14:05:28 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-chairing-irc
14:05:38 <jeff> jeff has joined #chairing
14:05:50 <koalie> Zakim, this will be chtr3
14:05:50 <Zakim> ok, koalie; I see Team_ChTr()10:00AM scheduled to start 5 minutes ago
14:05:55 <Arnaud> http://www.slideshare.net/alehors/chair-training-productivity-20141021
14:06:30 <Arnaud> zakim. who's on the phone?
14:06:41 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:06:41 <Zakim> Team_ChTr()10:00AM has not yet started, Arnaud
14:06:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see jeff, RRSAgent, koalie, Zakim, chaals, anssik, Arnaud, nigel, schuki
14:06:48 <koalie> Zakim, this is chtr3
14:06:48 <Zakim> ok, koalie; that matches Team_ChTr()10:00AM
14:07:02 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:07:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see Jeff, Arnaud, [IPcaller]
14:07:51 <chaals> zakim, code?
14:07:51 <Zakim> the conference code is 24873 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), chaals
14:08:44 <caribou> caribou has joined #chairing
14:09:54 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
14:10:02 <chaals> zakim, [ipcaller.a is me
14:10:02 <Zakim> +chaals; got it
14:11:54 <Zakim> +koalie
14:12:31 <anssik> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
14:12:31 <Zakim> +anssik; got it
14:12:43 <anssik> Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
14:13:05 <Arnaud> http://www.slideshare.net/alehors/chair-training-productivity-20141021
14:13:05 <koalie> koalie has changed the topic to: Arnaud's slides: www.slideshare.net/alehors/chair-training-productivity-20141021
14:13:49 <fjh> fjh has joined #chairing
14:14:20 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:14:22 <koalie> scribenick: koalie
14:14:32 <koalie> Arnaud: I'm part of the open technology group at IBM
14:14:39 <fjh> zakim, ipcaller is m
14:14:39 <Zakim> +m; got it
14:14:44 <fjh> zakim, m is me
14:14:44 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
14:14:47 <koalie> ... responsible for setting up strategy for IBM as a whole when it comes to open standards
14:14:50 <plh> plh has joined #chairing
14:14:54 <Zakim> +Plh
14:15:00 <koalie> Zakim, m is really fjh
14:15:00 <Zakim> sorry, koalie, I do not recognize a party named 'm'
14:15:01 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:15:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see Jeff, Arnaud, anssik, chaals, koalie (muted), fjh, Plh
14:15:03 <Zakim> On IRC I see plh, fjh, caribou, jeff, RRSAgent, koalie, Zakim, chaals, anssik, Arnaud, nigel, schuki
14:15:03 <Zakim> -Plh
14:15:13 <koalie> ... I'm a former w3c team member
14:15:15 <Zakim> +Plh
14:15:16 <koalie> ... 15 years ago
14:15:24 <koalie> ... at iBM for 15 years at the end of the month
14:15:37 <koalie> ... I have been involved with W3C in several ways
14:15:44 <koalie> ... currently chairing 3 WGs
14:16:00 <koalie> [Slide 3]
14:17:03 <koalie> Arnaud: By nature, chairs need to be flexible
14:17:26 <koalie> ... Then, there is W3C culture, which we're changing and that Jeff is influencing,
14:17:43 <koalie> ... Time-lines are often considered informative
14:17:49 <koalie> ... I think it's a mistake
14:17:54 <koalie> ... and we need to change this
14:18:25 <koalie> ... Yet, the constant search for a perfect solution isn't ideal either
14:18:26 <fjh> the timeline is a feature
14:18:49 <chaals> zakim, fjh is FrederickHirsch
14:18:49 <Zakim> +FrederickHirsch; got it
14:19:13 <chaals> [shipping is a feature]
14:19:57 <koalie> Arnaud: W3C is made of a diverse community
14:20:02 <koalie> ... there are challenges
14:20:15 <koalie> ... the bigger the group, the more challenges
14:20:33 <koalie> ... participants have very different backgrounds and perspectives
14:20:43 <koalie> ... challenge also to collaborate effectively
14:21:05 <koalie> ... Establishing the right atmosphere and work condition is key to making people want to participate
14:21:44 <koalie> ... We have co-chairs
14:21:50 <koalie> ... it can be both a curse, and a blessing
14:22:28 <koalie> [slide 4]
14:22:36 <koalie> Arnaud: The process
14:22:43 <koalie> ... is a blessing.
14:22:50 <koalie> ... it's what makes the W3C so valuable
14:22:59 <koalie> ... we produce very high-quality standards overall
14:23:14 <koalie> ... it's important the chair(s) be familiar and knowledgeable with the process
14:23:19 <koalie> ... especially early on in the WG
14:23:29 <koalie> ... take the time to educate the WG and tell them what is expected
14:23:40 <koalie> ... everybody needs to understand a minimum of the process
14:24:01 <koalie> ... you have a team contact, you can go to them for help
14:24:05 <koalie> [slide 5]
14:24:10 <koalie> Arnaud: Tools
14:24:18 <koalie> ... there's an array of tools available
14:24:25 <koalie> ... can be helpful
14:24:30 <koalie> ... unless you don't know how to use them
14:24:44 <koalie> ... trackbot and zakim are essential to be on calls
14:24:58 <koalie> ... identifying the participants on a call is not always easy
14:25:24 <koalie> ... again, you have to educate people, help them get to speed with them
14:25:29 <koalie> ... team contact can help there too
14:25:34 <koalie> [slide 6]
14:25:34 <chaals> q+ to ask if we should aim to update charters more frequently, and aim to have them represent current state as well as scope?
14:25:47 <koalie> Arnaud: keeping the working group on track and in scope
14:26:36 <koalie> ... it's often very important to develop use-cases and requirements
14:26:44 <koalie> ... it helps keeping the WG in scope
14:27:25 <koalie> ... also useful to develop a wish-list early on.
14:28:11 <koalie> ... another benefit is ability to push to wish-list some request
14:28:12 <chaals> [+1 to the wish list idea]
14:28:24 <koalie> Arnaud; from a human pov it's better than simple rejection
14:28:29 <koalie> s/naud;/naud:/
14:28:42 <koalie> [slide 7]
14:28:51 <koalie> Arnaud: keeping the WG on time
14:28:52 <chaals> q?
14:29:33 <koalie> Arnaud: I am known to press on necessity for the WG to deliver on time and took the deadline as absolute
14:29:41 <koalie> ... and repeatedly reminded people of the time-line
14:29:54 <koalie> ... you have to keep managing it, updating it
14:30:03 <koalie> ... keep track of it, and explain to people where you are
14:30:11 <koalie> ... if you are behind, you have to face the reality
14:30:23 <koalie> ... what can you do when you're delayed?
14:30:39 <fjh> q+
14:31:02 <koalie> ... separate must-have from things that would be nice to have
14:31:19 <koalie> ... on the specification itself, you can prune from the spec itself
14:31:31 <koalie> ... cut out on features
14:31:50 <koalie> ... put them on the wish-list
14:32:10 <koalie> ... don't take this lightly; keep on pressing on people and that you're serious about time-line
14:32:13 <koalie> [slide 8]
14:32:19 <koalie> Arnaud: conducting productive meetings
14:32:41 <koalie> ... different ways to succeed
14:32:48 <koalie> ... first and foremost: send a detailed agenda
14:33:00 <koalie> ... tricky especially early on in a WG life
14:33:18 <koalie> ... it's hard to judge how much time things are going to need
14:33:33 <koalie> ... it's better to have an agenda that you modify as you go, than no agenda
14:33:45 <koalie> ack chaals
14:33:45 <Zakim> chaals, you wanted to ask if we should aim to update charters more frequently, and aim to have them represent current state as well as scope?
14:34:12 <koalie> chaals: using charter -- should we be aiming to update charters? should charters be living documents?
14:34:17 <koalie> Arnaud: It depends
14:34:30 <koalie> ... scope: there are legal issues. I think it's better not to change this
14:34:48 <koalie> ... timeline: this is the starting point, so I don't think you need to update the charter
14:34:56 <koalie> ... but you should go back to the team if you have a change of scope
14:35:02 <koalie> ... and it should be communicated to the AC
14:35:04 <koalie> ack fj
14:35:13 <koalie> Frederick: I had a concern with the time-line
14:35:28 <koalie> ... how can you handle re-start, going back to technologies
14:35:49 <koalie> Arnaud: yes
14:35:57 <koalie> ... at the end of this presentation
14:36:06 <koalie> ... I have slides of things you don't control
14:36:11 <koalie> ... this is in this category
14:36:47 <koalie> ... this is part of things you have to accept.
14:36:56 <koalie> Arnaud: back on slide 8
14:37:05 <koalie> ... it's important to stay on point and drive the discussion
14:37:10 <koalie> ... use the queue
14:37:11 <fjh> q?
14:37:25 <koalie> ... you have not to allow people to take too much time, get off track and distract
14:37:32 <koalie> ... you need to center the discussion
14:37:43 <koalie> ... and make sure it is helping the group reach its goal
14:37:59 <koalie> ... as chair you should step in and interrupt any off-topic discussion
14:38:34 <koalie> ... or when people are talking past each other
14:38:44 <koalie> ... you can rephrase what you're hearing
14:38:55 <koalie> ... this can help disentangle
14:39:51 <koalie> ... another tip: avoid open-ended questions
14:40:47 <koalie> ... Also, don't let the most vocal participants use up all time
14:41:04 <koalie> ... you may prompt the quieter participants for their opinion
14:41:16 <koalie> ... and finally, make proposals.
14:41:19 <koalie> [slide 9]
14:41:27 <koalie> Arnaud: Consensus
14:41:48 <koalie> ... you have to make very clear proposals, write them down, make them specific
14:41:55 <koalie> ... hold a vote (+1, -1, 0)
14:42:16 <koalie> ... make sure that -1 is a blocking vote
14:42:27 <koalie> s/that -1/that the group know that -1/
14:42:42 <koalie> ... when someone objects, you should try to understand what the objection is about
14:42:46 <koalie> ... and what would resolve it
14:43:06 <koalie> ... how to mitigate it
14:43:19 <koalie> ... objecter(s) should be able to come up with a counter proposal
14:43:24 <koalie> ... you may have to take this off-line
14:43:54 <koalie> [slide 10]
14:44:07 <koalie> Arnaud: Consensus vs majority vote
14:44:15 <koalie> ... consensus is not a majority vote
14:44:25 <jeff> q+
14:44:46 <koalie> ... it's the solution everybody can live with
14:44:47 <koalie> ack j
14:45:07 <koalie> Jeff: I'm not sure about the example in your slide
14:45:16 <koalie> ... I'd say proposal needs more work
14:45:37 <koalie> Arnaud: the aim is to agree on things people can live with
14:45:42 <koalie> [slide 11]
14:45:53 <koalie> Arnaud: Formal objections
14:46:14 <koalie> ... goal: not lead a WG being held hostage
14:46:30 <koalie> ... if an objection is getting in the way, you should override it
14:46:39 <koalie> ... you should inform the objecter what their options are
14:46:55 <koalie> ... i.e. filing a formal objection
14:46:59 <koalie> ... and you should move on
14:47:03 <koalie> [slide 12]
14:47:06 <koalie> Arnaud: Chair neutrality
14:47:17 <koalie> ... I try not to vote
14:47:21 <koalie> ... and remain neutral
14:47:40 <koalie> ... I am not the rep for IBM, we have other from IBM in the groups
14:47:56 <koalie> ... when there is a tie, it's reasonable the chair takes a position.
14:48:05 <koalie> [slide 13]
14:48:10 <koalie> Arnaud: issues and resolutions
14:48:29 <koalie> ... I like to use Tracker
14:48:35 <koalie> ... well integrated with ML, bots
14:48:38 <koalie> ... makes it convenient
14:48:58 <koalie> ... I lke to have a process where everybody can discuss an issue, but not open one
14:49:02 <koalie> s/lke/like/
14:49:07 <koalie> s/discuss/raise/
14:49:19 <koalie> ... and the group decides which to open, close
14:49:39 <koalie> ... one thing Tracker doesn't do: add a link to the resolution
14:49:44 <koalie> ... I need to go back after the call
14:50:01 <koalie> ... and add a small description and link to where the resolution was made, in the minutes
14:50:43 <koalie> ... some people use Github; I think it's less integrated
14:50:47 <chaals> q+ to say it helps to have *fewer* mechanisms for tracking issues
14:50:53 <koalie> [slide 14]
14:51:01 <koalie> Arnaud: enabling remote and asynchronous participation
14:51:12 <koalie> ... this is an ongoing topic within W3C
14:51:30 <koalie> ... it takes longer to decide things in e-mail
14:51:37 <koalie> ... vs everybody is on a call
14:51:52 <koalie> ... good compromise: make decisions on the call, and confirm them a week after
14:52:17 <koalie> ... that gives people who are not at the meeting a change to raise objections, bring up new information that the WG may have missed
14:52:26 <koalie> ack ch
14:52:26 <Zakim> chaals, you wanted to say it helps to have *fewer* mechanisms for tracking issues and to discuss this too
14:52:32 <koalie> chaals: back to slide 13
14:52:44 <koalie> ... fewer mechanisms for tracking issues is easier
14:53:04 <koalie> ... regarding slide 14
14:53:19 <koalie> ... we write a specific proposal for resolutions in e-mail
14:53:26 <koalie> ... and there is at least one meeting where you can discuss
14:53:34 <koalie> ... but the resolution is done in e-mail as SOP
14:53:43 <fjh> +1 to this approach
14:53:47 <koalie> ... that works well as long as you are clear on the rules
14:54:02 <koalie> Arnaud: State a date by which people have to chime in
14:54:05 <koalie> [slide 15]
14:54:08 <koalie> Arnaud: Action items
14:54:23 <koalie> ... Tracker records action items and keep track of them
14:54:36 <chaals> s/as SOP/the standard operating procedure/
14:54:39 <koalie> ... make sure actions are accepted, otherwise it's counter productive
14:54:57 <koalie> ... important to review them regularly
14:55:00 <chaals> [+1 to reviewing action items. (and things listed "pending review")]
14:55:06 <koalie> ... talk about the ones that are lagging, ask what the problem is
14:55:17 <koalie> ... sometimes, you'll find people are waiting for something else
14:55:23 <koalie> ... so go over those
14:55:26 <koalie> [slide 16]
14:55:31 <koalie> Arnaud: Developing documents
14:55:43 <koalie> ... of course, identifying editors is key
14:55:59 <koalie> ... be careful about time commitment being realistic
14:56:57 <koalie> ... also identify selected people who take explicit action item to review
14:57:23 <koalie> ... you have to be pro-active in making sure this is getting done
14:57:48 <koalie> ... also, use "marking feature at risk" when something is lacking support
14:58:12 <koalie> ... it has no cost, it allows you to remove things without going back on the process track
14:58:17 <koalie> [slide 17]
14:58:24 <koalie> Arnaud: Publishing documents
14:58:28 <koalie> ... a big part of what WGs do
14:58:47 <koalie> ... the whole publication process is not as easy as people expect
14:58:52 <chaals> q+
14:58:58 <koalie> ... so it's important that the groups chairs know it
14:59:15 <koalie> ... you have to know the schedule, what it takes to be pubrules compliant
14:59:29 <chaals> q-
14:59:42 <koalie> ... get help from the team contact
14:59:45 <chaals> [bye… Thanks Arnaud, this was helpful IMHO]
14:59:51 <Zakim> -chaals
14:59:58 <koalie> [slide 18]
15:00:04 <koalie> Arnaud: Dealing with comments
15:00:12 <koalie> ... at any time the public at large can comment
15:00:27 <koalie> ... the chair can have a big role that this is done the proper way
15:00:38 <koalie> ... disposing of comments means you have to keep the comments, how you answer them
15:00:42 <koalie> ... you have to stay on top of that
15:00:53 <koalie> ... determine how long this is going to take
15:01:06 <koalie> ... there is a LC tracker which I find difficult to use
15:01:09 <koalie> ... so I'm using a wiki
15:01:36 <koalie> ... Set an expectation, set deadlines.
15:01:57 <koalie> ... you can not let anybody out there keeping you hostage by not replying
15:02:01 <koalie> ... you need to triage
15:02:11 <koalie> ... the editor can help assessing issues
15:02:19 <koalie> ... have the editor bring issues to the WG for dicsussion
15:02:23 <koalie> s/dics/disc/
15:02:26 <koalie> [slide 19]
15:02:32 <fjh> q+ to ask about interrupting
15:02:33 <koalie> Arnaud: parting thoughts
15:02:40 <koalie> ... there are things you do not control
15:02:51 <koalie> ... changes that happen, people bringing up issues late in the game
15:02:59 <koalie> ... leading the WG to rething what it's going
15:03:08 <koalie> s/it's going/it's doing/
15:03:31 <koalie> ... what can you do to mitigate those?
15:03:39 <koalie> ... keep an eye, be aware of events
15:03:52 <koalie> ... it can be time-consuming to reach out to people directly to find out what is going on
15:04:06 <koalie> ... but you need to take the time and ensure people will be on the call to resolve issues
15:04:25 <koalie> ... bottom line is that there is a lot that you actually do control
15:04:37 <koalie> ... if you exercise all the levers that you have
15:05:28 <koalie> [slide 20]
15:05:34 <koalie> Arnaud: further reading
15:05:39 <koalie> ... three links
15:06:04 <koalie> ... I highly recommend Joseph Reagle's document from the P3P harmonization WG
15:06:14 <koalie> ... it's old but still very relevant
15:06:32 <koalie> ... thank you!
15:06:50 <koalie> Jeff: In your discussion you helped populate the dry experience of chairing with your numerous experience
15:06:54 <koalie> ... thanks for this presentation
15:07:05 <koalie> q?
15:07:17 <koalie> ... and thanks from W3C for your participation within w3c
15:07:20 <koalie> ack fj
15:07:20 <Zakim> fjh, you wanted to ask about interrupting
15:07:29 <koalie> Frederick: How to interrupt people?
15:07:44 <koalie> Arnaud: tricky. people say I'm a bit rude at times, but I don't really care
15:08:07 <koalie> ... I have upset a few WG members, but sorry, this was out of scope
15:08:15 <koalie> ... you won't make friends, but you're doing your duty
15:08:32 <koalie> ... you're not doing your job right if you don't step in when you should interrupt discussion
15:08:37 <koalie> ... this is for the benefit of the group.
15:08:44 <koalie> ... You can do it politely
15:08:56 <koalie> ... "I'm sorry, I need to interrupt and re-center the discussion"
15:09:02 <koalie> [thanks all]
15:09:07 <koalie> Arnaud: I'll be at TPAC next week
15:09:12 <koalie> ... if you have questions, contact me
15:09:12 <fjh> Thank you for excellent presentation !
15:09:17 <Zakim> -Jeff
15:09:19 <Zakim> -Plh
15:09:21 <Zakim> -FrederickHirsch
15:09:25 <Zakim> -Arnaud
15:09:26 <koalie> thanks Arnaud!
15:09:31 <koalie> Zakim, drop me
15:09:31 <Zakim> koalie is being disconnected
15:09:33 <Zakim> -koalie
15:09:33 <anssik> thanks Arnaud!
15:09:39 <Zakim> -anssik
15:09:40 <koalie> Zakim, list attendees
15:09:41 <Zakim> Team_ChTr()10:00AM has ended
15:09:41 <Zakim> Attendees were Jeff, Arnaud, chaals, koalie, anssik, Plh, FrederickHirsch
15:09:41 <Zakim> sorry, koalie, I don't know what conference this is
15:09:50 <koalie> RRSagent, make minutes
15:09:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-chairing-minutes.html koalie
15:22:35 <caribou> caribou has left #chairing
15:39:01 <koalie> RRSAgent, make logs world-readable
15:39:40 <koalie> meeting: Chair Training: Focus and Productivity
15:39:46 <koalie> chair: ArnaudLeHors
15:40:27 <koalie> regrets: NigelMegitt
15:42:12 <koalie> RRSagent, make minutes
15:42:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-chairing-minutes.html koalie
15:43:27 <koalie> RRSAgent, bye
15:43:27 <RRSAgent> I see no action items