13:54:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tt
13:54:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/10/16-tt-irc
13:54:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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13:54:24 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be TTML
13:54:24 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
13:54:25 <trackbot> Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
13:54:25 <trackbot> Date: 16 October 2014
13:57:35 <Zakim> SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has now started
13:57:40 <jdsmith> jdsmith has joined #tt
13:57:42 <Zakim> +jdsmith
13:58:52 <nigel> Nice to get an early start...
13:59:06 <nigel> s/Nice to get an early start.../
14:00:21 <Zakim> +nigel
14:00:45 <Zakim> + +1.720.897.aaaa
14:01:01 <Zakim> +pal
14:01:05 <mike> mike has joined #tt
14:01:08 <glenn> zakim, aaaa is me
14:01:08 <Zakim> +glenn; got it
14:01:16 <nigel> chair: nigel
14:01:34 <nigel> Present: jdsmith, nigel, glenn, pal
14:01:40 <Zakim> +Mike
14:01:46 <nigel> Present+ Mike
14:01:59 <Zakim> +[Apple]
14:02:08 <courtney> courtney has joined #tt
14:02:10 <Zakim> + +41.22.717.aabb
14:02:30 <nigel> zakim, [Apple] is courtney
14:02:30 <Zakim> +courtney; got it
14:02:33 <Frans> Frans has joined #tt
14:02:54 <nigel> zakim, aabb is Frans
14:02:54 <Zakim> +Frans; got it
14:03:03 <nigel> Present+ courtney, Frans
14:03:43 <nigel> scribeNick: nigel
14:03:52 <nigel> Topic: This meeting
14:05:33 <nigel> Topic: Santa Clara F2F October (TPAC)
14:05:43 <nigel> http://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/tpac2014
14:07:49 <nigel> nigel: goes through agenda as currently drafted.
14:08:26 <nigel> glenn: I may need to leave slightly early on the Monday to attend another event.
14:10:27 <nigel> courtney: Maybe we should reserve a short period for WebVTT publication discussions
14:13:21 <nigel> nigel: Lists the applicants to be observers.
14:14:24 <nigel> ... I intend to accept all the observer applications.
14:14:35 <nigel> ... I'll send the emails tomorrow
14:17:14 <nigel> nigel: It turns out that advanced registration is now closed, but I believe that registration is available on the day in person.
14:18:21 <nigel> Topic: Action items
14:18:42 <nigel> action-338?
14:18:42 <trackbot> action-338 -- Glenn Adams to Update change proposal 1 to reflect new approach and move to closed-implemented. -- due 2014-10-16 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:18:42 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/338
14:19:03 <nigel> glenn: That's done.
14:19:22 <nigel> close action-338
14:19:22 <trackbot> Closed action-338.
14:19:33 <nigel> action-339?
14:19:33 <trackbot> action-339 -- Glenn Adams to Fill in the relevant sections of change proposal 12 and move it to closed-implemented. -- due 2014-10-16 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:19:33 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/339
14:19:54 <nigel> glenn: That's done.
14:19:58 <nigel> close action-339
14:19:59 <trackbot> Closed action-339.
14:20:04 <nigel> action-340?
14:20:04 <trackbot> action-340 -- Glenn Adams to Update change proposal 24 and move to closed-implemented -- due 2014-10-16 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:20:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/340
14:20:29 <nigel> glenn: That's done.
14:20:39 <nigel> close action-340
14:20:39 <trackbot> Closed action-340.
14:21:46 <nigel> Topic: Issues
14:21:48 <nigel> issue-335?
14:21:48 <trackbot> issue-335 -- In order to handle offsets between start time in TTML docs and start time in video, allow negative times to be used in fragment begin times. -- pending review
14:21:48 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/335
14:22:42 <nigel> nigel: We've had quite a bit of debate about this and decided to defer this until TPAC
14:22:56 <nigel> glenn: I'll prepare a short presentation on this for TPAC.
14:23:48 <nigel> Topic: Change Proposals
14:24:03 <nigel> glenn: The only ones that require a significant amount of conceptual work and editing is the HTML5 mapping.
14:24:18 <nigel> ... The raw content is outlined already, so I hope not to have to do much conceptual work there.
14:24:36 <nigel> ... Before we go too far in the Rec process though we need some implementation support
14:24:47 <nigel> ... for the HTML mapping, so I need to do some work on that. I've already outlined some
14:25:02 <nigel> ... tasks on TTV to allow me to do some experiments with HTML mapping, which would be very useful.
14:25:13 <nigel> ... I'm also refining the ISD mapping process, which is the other area I need to spend
14:25:26 <nigel> ... some time on: the semantics and creation procedure. There's some material there
14:25:45 <nigel> ... already derived from TTML1. Implementation work is progressing on that, and it
14:25:53 <nigel> ... will help document the algorithm.
14:26:12 <nigel> nigel: Is that for a Change Proposal?
14:26:25 <nigel> glenn: It may come under Distribution and is also a pre-requisite for the HTML5 mapping too.
14:26:44 <nigel> nigel: Do we need to liaise with the HTML WG on that?
14:26:48 <nigel> glenn: I hope not!
14:27:11 <nigel> glenn: The only reason we might want to is if there's a specific issue we may want to
14:27:22 <nigel> ... discuss with them. I'm not aware of any. I'm not making any normative use of, e.g.
14:27:35 <nigel> ... the TextTrackCue APIs. THere's an open issue on HTML5 regarding the DataCue
14:27:54 <nigel> ... interface but that won't impede us here.
14:28:06 <nigel> nigel: I was wondering if we were headed towards an HTMLCue.
14:28:29 <nigel> glenn: I'm hoping we don't need to add that into TTML2. We have some pre-draft specs, for TTML1 and TTML2 APIs
14:28:40 <nigel> ... which will probably make reference to those. When we make further progress with
14:28:48 <nigel> ... those specs that issue will come up more.
14:28:55 <nigel> nigel: We don't have those in our charter at the moment.
14:29:14 <nigel> glenn: They're generally under TTML2 but not specifically marked as Rec Track deliverables.
14:29:29 <nigel> jdsmith: TextTrackCue isn't really in a position now to be used for TTML now.
14:29:36 <nigel> ... Should we have a TTMLCue or something like that?
14:29:40 <Zakim> +dsinger
14:29:54 <nigel> glenn: That's the question, it may not be the right time to discuss it now.
14:30:09 <nigel> jdsmith: Should we track that as an issue in the TTWG? It's not in any of our specs now.
14:30:24 <nigel> glenn: It's implicitly under the TTML API level 1 and 2 because they make use of TextTrackCue
14:30:35 <nigel> ... and define a TTMLCue interface. That's part of that discussion if we're going to
14:30:41 <Zakim> +Thierry
14:30:42 <nigel> ... move forward to Rec on that area.
14:30:48 <nigel> Present+ dsinger, Thierry
14:31:09 <glenn> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/default/ttml1-api/Overview.html
14:31:12 <nigel> Thierry: Apologies for joining late
14:31:14 <glenn> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/default/ttml2-api/Overview.html
14:32:06 <nigel> Topic: MIME type processor profiles short codes parameter
14:32:26 <nigel> nigel: We need to get to a message that we can send to MPEG.
14:33:06 <nigel> dsinger: We have that: TTWG will define one or more parameters to indicate the dialect or sub-brand of TTML.
14:33:20 <nigel> ... We don't need to declare the format for that right now.
14:33:32 <nigel> ... For example application/ttml+xml;[subparameter]
14:33:44 <nigel> ... and the TTWG is responsible for defining [subparameter]
14:34:06 <nigel> mike: We've agreed the syntax too, we just need to agree on the name of the parameter.
14:34:38 <nigel> Mike: I'll draft a message to send to MPEG.
14:35:41 <nigel> nigel: We've already got time set aside at TPAC to look at the registry page. Are there any other actions?
14:36:17 <nigel> Mike: We should go ahead and post the response.
14:36:44 <nigel> dsinger: Let's write a contribution from me and Mike to submit at MPEG rather than a liaison that might take a while to get through.
14:37:10 <nigel> dsinger: On the profile name, there are some proposals: procprofs, rprofiles, what else?
14:37:16 <nigel> glenn: I vote for codecs
14:37:55 <nigel> dsinger: That's used elsewhere for H-264 etc.
14:38:02 <nigel> glenn: In this case it's codecs related to TTML.
14:38:11 <nigel> dsinger: It's not a formal problem, just one of being informative.
14:38:41 <nigel> nigel: We need to conclude that we're not re-using "profile".
14:38:55 <nigel> dsinger: I'd rather not redefine it.
14:39:03 <nigel> glenn: We shouldn't touch that.
14:39:31 <nigel> nigel: Presumably a new parameter should have a reasonably short name.
14:39:45 <nigel> dsinger: That's why I suggested procprofs.
14:39:48 <nigel> nigel: Me too.
14:40:03 <nigel> Mike: In TTML2 do we have processor profiles or content profiles?
14:40:27 <nigel> ... For interpreting the "profiles" parameter.
14:40:33 <nigel> glenn: It is a processor profile.
14:40:42 <nigel> mike: I would offer that procprofile is more confusing.
14:40:56 <nigel> dsinger: What's the equivalent name inside the document?
14:41:11 <nigel> glenn: It's ttp:processorProfiles but it doesn't take short codes.
14:41:36 <nigel> Mike: profile has effectively been redefined already to be processor profile. We need a new label for the new syntax.
14:41:51 <nigel> glenn: The original profile parameter in TTML1 referred to a single profile only, not multiple.
14:42:05 <nigel> ... It was a little vague on whether it meant content or processor profile. We've
14:42:18 <nigel> ... deprecated it in TTML2 and added processorProfiles and contentProfiles to
14:42:24 <nigel> ... distinguish those two uses.
14:42:33 <nigel> Mike: How about short-profile?
14:43:17 <nigel> nigel: How about short-profiles?
14:43:32 <nigel> dsinger: Would "profiles" in addition to the original "profile" be too confusing.
14:43:34 <nigel> nigel: I think so.
14:43:57 <nigel> dsinger: I'm back to "procprofs" to allow room for "contprofs" later.
14:44:07 <nigel> glenn: If you're doing that, then "processor-profiles" would be better.
14:44:17 <nigel> dsinger: The length isn't going to be a problem.
14:44:29 <nigel> glenn: It's less likely to be confused, and is a semantic equivalent.
14:44:51 <nigel> dsinger: We need to call out that the codes are short names not full ones in the documentation.
14:46:46 <nigel> RESOLUTION: We will adopt the parameter named processorProfiles
14:48:22 <nigel> RESOLUTION: We will host a registry page for this parameter including the long name that goes in the TTML2 document and the short name for the MIME type and a pointer to the ttp:processorProfiles parameter definition
14:48:51 <nigel> Topic: WebVTT publication
14:49:13 <nigel> dsinger: Thierry pointed out that we haven't published a formal FPWD for WebVTT even though it's implemented in various places.
14:49:43 <nigel> ... To publish a FPWD, so we can call for wide review. We need a resolution from this WG to do that.
14:50:27 <nigel> ... nigel and I and Silvia have been working on this. We need a resolution to publish a FPWD. I was hoping to have a final
14:51:07 <nigel> ... draft of this to look at today. We're asking for formal feedback to come back to the TTWG and bugs to go to the CG tracker.
14:51:09 <nigel> http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/webvtt-staged-snapshot.html
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14:52:14 <nigel> http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/webvtt-staged-snapshot.html
14:52:46 <pal> pal has joined #tt
14:53:19 <nigel> nigel: This doc has a SOTD saying comments should go to public-tt and bugs go to the CG's bugzilla with some
14:53:34 <nigel> ... distinguishing information to show that it originated on the FPWD.
14:54:02 <nigel> pal: So the document proposed to be moved to FPWD needs to be offered for review to the WG. Has that been done?
14:54:23 <nigel> dsinger: That's what we're doing now. It's the same as the editor's draft that has been around for a while, with some
14:54:28 <nigel> ... boiler plate changes.
14:54:45 <nigel> pal: I'd like some time to review this before we agree to move to FPWD.
14:55:02 <nigel> dsinger: The FPWD doesn't imply any endorsement, but of course you can have some time to review it.
14:55:10 <nigel> pal: I recommend this group gives itself at least a week to review it.
14:55:16 <nigel> dsinger: OK, that's fine.
14:55:58 <nigel> dsinger: regrets for next week from me. I'd like to have this resolved before TPAC so we can socialise it there.
14:57:04 <nigel> nigel: Okay I'll put that on the agenda for next week and we'll resolve to publish if there are no objections.
14:57:38 <nigel> nigel: What about the short codes? The proposals are webvtt and webvtt1
14:57:52 <nigel> glenn: I'd suggest going for webvtt1 because there's likely to be a webvtt2
14:58:11 <nigel> dsinger: If the team can alias webvtt to the latest version that's fine too.
14:58:57 <nigel> RESOLUTION: At the time we resolve to publish as an FPWD we will use the short name webvtt1
14:59:33 <nigel> dsinger: My intention for demonstrating wide review to get to CR is to contact the W3C groups HTML, CSS etc, and at
15:00:33 <nigel> ... least MPEG and so on, and that it will get out in public lists etc.
15:00:54 <nigel> nigel: You could use the same list as we used for IMSC1 as a basis, which was trawled from the Charter and the W3C liaisons page.
15:01:05 <nigel> dsinger: I'll draft that email in anticipation of the resolution.
15:01:28 <Dsinger_> Apologies for running over
15:01:32 <nigel> Topic: AOB
15:01:42 <Dsinger_> Ow
15:01:44 <Zakim> -Thierry
15:01:46 <nigel> glenn: Quick announcement: I'm officially representing Skynav in this group now.
15:02:14 <nigel> s/Ow/
15:02:35 <Zakim> -dsinger
15:02:36 <Zakim> -courtney
15:02:36 <Zakim> -pal
15:02:37 <Zakim> -Frans
15:02:38 <Zakim> -glenn
15:02:40 <Zakim> -jdsmith
15:02:46 <Zakim> -Mike
15:02:49 <nigel> nigel: Thanks everyone, for a very productive meeting. [adjourns meeting]
15:02:49 <Dsinger_> Dsinger_ has left #tt
15:02:54 <nigel> rrsagent, make logs public
15:02:59 <nigel> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:02:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/16-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:03:09 <Zakim> -nigel
15:03:09 <Zakim> SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has ended
15:03:09 <Zakim> Attendees were jdsmith, nigel, +1.720.897.aaaa, pal, glenn, Mike, +41.22.717.aabb, courtney, Frans, dsinger, Thierry
15:04:40 <nigel> i/Topic: WebVTT publication/chair: dsinger
15:05:02 <nigel> i/Topic: AOB/chair: nigel
15:05:08 <nigel> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:05:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/16-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:10:02 <nigel> s|http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/webvtt-staged-snapshot.html|
15:10:04 <nigel> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:10:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/16-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:12:21 <nigel> ScribeOptions: -noEmbedDiagnostics -final
15:12:23 <nigel> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:12:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/16-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:16:49 <nigel> s/chair: nigel/chair: nigel, dsinger (for WebVTT agendum)
15:16:50 <nigel> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:16:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/16-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:18:11 <nigel> ScribeOptions: -embedDiagnostics
15:18:13 <nigel> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:18:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/16-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:19:05 <nigel> s/chair: nigel/chair: nigel, dsinger (for WebVTT agendum)/g
15:19:07 <nigel> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:19:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/16-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:19:38 <nigel> s/chair: nigel, dsinger (for WebVTT agendum), dsinger (for WebVTT agendum)/chair: nigel
15:19:40 <nigel> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:19:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/16-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:20:06 <nigel> ScribeOptions: -noEmbedDiagnostics
15:20:08 <nigel> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:20:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/16-tt-minutes.html nigel
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