13:59:15 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ldp
13:59:15 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/10/13-ldp-irc
13:59:17 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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13:59:19 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP
13:59:19 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see SW_LDP()10:00AM already started
13:59:20 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
13:59:20 <trackbot> Date: 13 October 2014
13:59:21 <Ashok> Ashok has joined #ldp
13:59:28 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
13:59:59 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:00:18 <codyburleson> Zakim, IPcaller is me.
14:00:18 <Zakim> +codyburleson; got it
14:00:52 <JohnArwe> JohnArwe has joined #ldp
14:00:59 <Zakim> +Arnaud
14:01:28 <Zakim> +JohnArwe
14:01:53 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
14:02:21 <MiguelAraCo> MiguelAraCo has joined #ldp
14:02:32 <azaroth> zakim, who is here?
14:02:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see azaroth, codyburleson, Arnaud, JohnArwe, Ashok_Malhotra
14:02:35 <Zakim> On IRC I see MiguelAraCo, JohnArwe, Ashok, Zakim, RRSAgent, codyburleson, azaroth, bblfish, nmihindu, tommorris, taaz, Arnaud, sandro, Yves, ericP, trackbot
14:03:42 <Zakim> +??P8
14:03:48 <roger> roger has joined #ldp
14:04:13 <Zakim> +??P9
14:04:48 <nmihindu> Zakim, ??P9 is me
14:04:48 <Zakim> +nmihindu; got it
14:04:54 <nmihindu> Zakim, mute me
14:04:54 <Zakim> nmihindu should now be muted
14:05:49 <roger> Zakim, P8 is me
14:05:49 <Zakim> sorry, roger, I do not recognize a party named 'P8'
14:05:55 <roger> Zakim, ??P8 is me
14:05:55 <Zakim> +roger; got it
14:05:58 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:05:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see azaroth, codyburleson, Arnaud, JohnArwe, Ashok_Malhotra, roger, nmihindu (muted)
14:08:22 <roger> Scribe: Roger
14:08:26 <MiguelAraCo> Zakim, I'm with codyburleson
14:08:26 <Zakim> +MiguelAraCo; got it
14:08:40 <Arnaud> Proposal: Approve the minutes of the 6 October teleconf: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2014-10-06
14:08:48 <Ashok> scribenick: roger
14:09:10 <roger> Minute of last meeting approved
14:10:13 <roger> Topic: LDP Spec
14:10:45 <roger> Plan is to try to get to proposed recommendation.
14:11:12 <roger> Arnaud is maintaining a disposition of comments document.
14:11:39 <roger> This is useful because there has been an *avalanche* of comments recently :)
14:15:06 <roger> Rob had a comment about the use of the slug vs. relative URIs in POSTed content.
14:17:47 <JohnArwe> zakim, who is speaking?
14:17:57 <Zakim> JohnArwe, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: azaroth (14%), codyburleson (95%), JohnArwe (20%), roger (4%)
14:18:28 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:18:47 <roger> Miguel has a some concern about how the spec is interpreted, and how if this might have an effect on interoperability.
14:18:47 <bblfish> Zakim, IPcaller is me
14:18:47 <Zakim> +bblfish; got it
14:19:00 <bblfish> hi
14:20:31 <roger> Rob: maybe we could clarify some of these issues in the companion documents
14:21:13 <roger> @John - that's it !
14:23:29 <roger> some discussion about the "interaction model" ...
14:27:02 <codyburleson> q+
14:27:20 <JohnArwe> interaction model use case: I want to make a read-only copy (archive) of a container ... so its content looks like a container, but it doesn't act like one.  e.g. if a member is deleted, the copy does not change.
14:27:22 <bblfish> It's a distinction between what the server says and what the content says. And we decided the servers statements go in the header
14:27:33 <azaroth> q+
14:27:34 <Arnaud> ack codyburleson
14:27:42 <bblfish> So if the header says something is an LDPC then that's what the client goes on
14:28:57 <JohnArwe> there's an existing note on 5.2.3.4 (containers can create containers) that we could add to if we decide clarifications are needed.
14:28:59 <Arnaud> ack azaroth
14:29:13 <roger> Cody: whats to indicate to the server about the target resource and the _context_ about how it should be treated.
14:29:15 <JohnArwe> ...since that's where interaction model comes up, seems like a logical place.
14:29:21 <Zakim> +Sandro
14:30:28 <MiguelAraCo> q+
14:30:36 <Arnaud> ack MiguelAraCo
14:31:33 <roger> Miguel, thinks that section 5.2.3.4 needs a review
14:32:28 <roger> John suggests to Miguel to propose how 5.2.3.4 should be changed.
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14:32:49 <Arnaud> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/ldp.html#ldpc-post-createrdf
14:35:09 <roger> Miguel thinks that the interaction model is something the client indicates to the server ... (if i understand correctly)
14:35:35 <JohnArwe> Miguel, were the requests you were talking about ONLY post to a container (what 5.2.3.4 covers) or every request to your server?
14:37:05 <azaroth> q+
14:37:17 <azaroth> q-
14:37:19 <azaroth> :)
14:38:21 <azaroth> s/:)//
14:42:12 <JohnArwe> so their server conflicts with 5.2.3.4 bullets 1 and 2, because those MUSTs apply for the life of the created resource and theirs are dynamically polymorphic
14:43:46 <Zakim> +ericP
14:46:32 <azaroth> Is there a test for this?
14:46:50 <azaroth> I think that our server will run afoul of the same issue.
14:48:20 <JohnArwe> I seriously doubt there's a test for NOT doing X, in this case.
14:48:44 <nmihindu> azaroth, it would be hard to check automatically whether the interaction model stays the same in the test suite I guess.
14:49:54 <JohnArwe> ... right, the old "testing a negative is hard" problem
14:49:58 <azaroth> A possible test:  Create a resource with LDPR interaction model, with body that describes a container, and then try to POST to the resource.
14:50:15 <azaroth> Which we'll fail, as we treat every resource as a container unless the request specifies otherwise
14:50:42 <azaroth> And I think, if I understand, Miguel will also fail
14:51:35 <bblfish> To me it makes sense to turn an LDPR into an LDPC
14:51:59 <bblfish> or rather to "discover" that an LDPR is an LDPC
14:52:36 <roger> Cody: the first bullet of 5.2.3.4 might cause some issues, but, Arnaud view is that Cody's implementation is just offering some extensions on top of what is spec'ed. So, it's not a conflict.
14:52:53 <JohnArwe> azaroth, when you create an LDPR (sic), do you just refuse all Posts then?  nothing in LDP forces you to do that, it's just that LDP doesn't constrain what any post to an ldpr does.
14:53:51 <roger> Topic: Indirect Container issues
14:54:01 <roger> ... and implementation issues
14:54:26 <Arnaud> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/tests/reports/ldp.html#indirectcontainer-must
14:54:55 <azaroth> JohnArwe: Due to the polymorphism you would need to specify that the interaction model was LDPR on the POST as well for us to reject it.
14:55:42 <azaroth> JohnArwe: And will respond to your strawman on list as well, as we're out of time today
14:55:54 <JohnArwe> fair enough, but I think it's still true that LDP does not force you to refuse Posts to LDPRs.
14:55:59 <azaroth> Thanks for that mail, it was spot on.
14:57:23 <roger> Arnaud: If we claim to have implementations of IndirectContainer, but, don't seem to have test passes for the relevant tests, where does this leave us ?
14:58:04 <azaroth> JohnArwe: Agreed that's our implementation choice rather than a requirement of the spec.  4.2.3 is pretty clear.
14:58:47 <roger> Next week: vote : IC or non-IC ? decision time ...
14:58:52 <roger> Topic: Paging
15:02:03 <Arnaud> https://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/LDP_Paging_LC2_Comments
15:02:35 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
15:02:37 <Zakim> -Sandro
15:02:39 <Zakim> -roger
15:02:42 <Zakim> -JohnArwe
15:02:44 <Zakim> -nmihindu
15:02:44 <Zakim> -azaroth
15:02:46 <Zakim> -Arnaud
15:02:49 <Zakim> -ericP
15:02:52 <Zakim> -codyburleson
15:02:54 <Zakim> -bblfish
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15:02:56 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended
15:02:56 <Zakim> Attendees were azaroth, codyburleson, Arnaud, JohnArwe, Ashok_Malhotra, nmihindu, roger, MiguelAraCo, bblfish, Sandro, ericP
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