14:20:37 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
14:20:37 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/10/09-html-a11y-irc
14:20:39 RRSAgent, make logs world
14:20:39 Zakim has joined #html-a11y
14:20:41 Zakim, this will be 2119
14:20:41 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 20 minutes ago
14:20:42 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:20:42 Date: 09 October 2014
14:20:47 agenda?
14:20:58 Chair: Janina
14:20:59 agenda+ Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
14:21:01 agenda+ TPAC 2014
14:21:04 agenda+ Longdesc Progress
14:21:06 agenda+ Alt Note Status
14:21:09 agenda+ Canvas 2D -- Missing requirement in the CR spec
14:21:11 agenda+ TF Work Items (HTML.Next)
14:21:14 agenda+ Other Business
14:21:16 agenda+ Identify Chair and Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
14:21:19 agenda+ be done
14:54:53 trackbot, next item
14:54:53 Sorry, janina, I don't understand ' trackbot, next item'. Please refer to for help.
14:55:02 zakim, take up item 1
14:55:02 agendum 1. "Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List" taken up [from janina]
14:57:29 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has now started
14:57:36 +??P3
14:57:42 zakim, ??P3 is me
14:57:42 +janina; got it
14:58:31 +Liam
15:00:25 paulc has joined #html-a11y
15:00:32 zakim, what is the code?
15:00:32 the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), paulc
15:00:45 Judy has joined #html-a11y
15:00:45 +Joanmarie_Diggs
15:01:01 +[Microsoft]
15:01:11 zakim, [Microsoft] is me
15:01:12 +paulc; got it
15:02:47 +JF
15:03:10 +Judy
15:04:37 JF has joined #html-a11y
15:05:02 agenda?
15:05:27 zakim, who's on the phone?
15:05:27 On the phone I see janina, Liam, Joanmarie_Diggs, paulc, JF, Judy
15:05:47 scribe: JF
15:06:03 agenda?
15:06:11 zakim, take up next item
15:06:11 agendum 2. "TPAC 2014" taken up [from janina]
15:06:45 JS: PF have a clear list of who we need to meet with at TPAC, HTML and SVG of note
15:06:52 ShaneM has joined #html-a11y
15:07:18 rubys has joined #html-a11y
15:07:25 JS: PF will join the HTML WG in your larger room
15:07:27 https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/wg/2014-10-Agenda#Agenda
15:07:45 will discuss SVG - graphics taxonomy
15:07:59 (there is a TF in the works for that now)
15:08:24 [judy looks fwd to seeing that]
15:08:43 alos wish to follow up on the need for event numeration - plan to present requirements and use-cases and ask for solutions
15:09:20 previous concerns over security have impacted this discussion in the past - so plan is to ask for solutions rather than say what we need
15:10:18 afternoon Thrusday - PF will be meeting with D-Pub after lunch, then after break return to larger HTML WG to present our discussions
15:10:42 one key topic is expansion of ARIA roles for document mark-up
15:11:09 richardschwerdtfeger has joined #html-a11y
15:11:26 +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
15:12:07 subsequent to that, we will be having a discussion around testing
15:12:59 there is also a need for multiple-target needs for an enhanced longdesc or described-at
15:13:42 Resource: TPAC 2014
15:13:42 HTML-WG: https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/wg/2014-10-Agenda
15:13:42 PF-WG: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/meetings/tp2014
15:13:42 Main Page: http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/
15:14:19 JS: there may be other discussions - media (John and Mark S will be meeting with Web on TV folks on Monday.
15:14:31 There may also be other discussions in HTML WG
15:14:50 there is also a session with WebApps - they have been working with IndieUI
15:15:26 PC: SVG meeting times may need to be fine-tuned
15:15:46 RS: there may be a need for more time than originally envisioned
15:16:35 [discussion around meeting times]
15:18:57 JB: Final registration numbers are suggesting a large turn-out, so there is some adjusting that needs to happen
15:19:13 PC: looking at PF et al to manage the meeting times
15:20:32 zakim, next item
15:20:32 agendum 3. "Longdesc Progress" taken up [from janina]
15:20:46 JS: the news is, no news yet
15:21:33 JB: there is a draft decision in progress.
15:21:40 JB: expect to see it soon
15:21:49 zakim, next item
15:21:49 agendum 4. "Alt Note Status" taken up [from janina]
15:22:28 JS: there are some additional bugs that need to be filed, need to get that done. Plan to happen before the next meeting.
15:23:00 JS: Steve F has stepped down as editor, there is a proposed replacement
15:23:04 waiting for movement there
15:23:40 PC: there has been some off-line discussion, including why is it taking so long? Appears to be blocked by the longdesc decision
15:23:41 q+
15:24:04 PC: trying to understand what's next. Chairs looking to "unblock it"
15:24:09 Q+
15:24:16 q?
15:24:19 ack ju
15:24:54 JB: there are some dicsussion on this already. Different TF participants have concerns on moving forward without the longdesc decision addressed
15:25:25 JB: depending on how that goes, there may be some significant changes required to the Alt Text Document
15:25:52 q+
15:25:57 JB: could create some misunderstanding to release it as is
15:26:24 +Cynthia_Shelly
15:26:30 q?
15:26:45 JB: the document is a TF document, and request that the WG respect that, and allow this to follow its course
15:26:50 ack jf
15:27:33 JF: mostly to plus one Judy
15:27:46 ack p
15:28:05 PC: Aware of the discussion & history
15:28:22 if there are issues, then file the bugs
15:28:41 PC: keeping this in limbo does no-one any favors
15:28:41 ack l
15:28:41 liam, you wanted to object to a heartbeat as-is very strongly as it could be very damaging, it basically contradicts longdesc, and yes there are bugs filed
15:29:09 LIam: object strongly to publish this as is, due to issues around the longdesc sensitivity
15:29:41 This is bad and damaging to publish this with wrong info
15:29:51 JF: +1 to Liam
15:30:01 Links to the bugs?
15:30:19 JS: suggest that we may in fact be past the blockage now.
15:31:04 JS: whichever way the Director goes with the longdesc doc will have an impact on the ALt Text document.
15:31:18 I filed https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26868 26869 and 26870 which are deliberately fairly high-level
15:31:34 q?
15:31:40 PC: have not replaced the editor, gaterhing data on what we should do next
15:31:55 PC: believe we should keep Steve's name on the doc as editor
15:32:45 tied up on another call. I have volunteered to take on whatever additional editing is needed.
15:33:06 (have also volunteered)
15:33:31 JB: this needs to be handled at a coordination level
15:34:47 JS: history of this doc tells us the original reason that the work on this document started is no longer there. It was to off-set some poor information in the earlier HTML 5 document, and it has had an impact on the HJTML5 spec - it succeeded in doing what it set out to do
15:35:26 JS: now we need to ensure that 2 W3C documents are in sync, and not saying different things
15:35:35 PC: are there bugs there?
15:35:53 JS: nont filed yet, but do not anticipate this being a long process
15:36:07 q+
15:36:16 CS: perhaps ask WCAG if they want to take up the Best Practices as WCAG Techniques
15:37:22 -Cynthia_Shelly
15:37:51 JB: the content of this document actually spans several different resources - including WCAG Techniques - there are also types of "tutorial" content. Don't want to lose what Steve has contributed there
15:37:53 +Cynthia_Shelly
15:38:22 If it is true that this document serves a significant different role than the current WD at http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-html-alt-techniques-20121025/ then that is a strong reason to get a new document on the TR page.
15:38:44 JB: thus it doesn't directly map just to WCAG - spans multiple viewpoints. Strong opinion that this document be maintained by WAI groups in the future
15:38:54 And I keep hearing that there are more and more yet defined changes to the current document so arguing against a heartbeat now seems wrong.
15:39:11 Paul, I was trying to say that it serves a different role today than the role for which it was initially created
15:39:26 JB: there is a syncronization concern, but hope is to address that fairly quickly (after the longdesc decision)
15:39:42 q?
15:39:44 JB: moving forward (new techiques, etc.) to also keep all that sync'd there
15:39:46 ack ju
15:40:01 Won't this document need to go through another CfC round if we edit it substantially with longdesc stuff?
15:40:31 JB: the number of changes are small and finite, but unsure if they are all filed as bugs
15:40:33 There are no bugs for what Janina referred to.
15:40:37 q+
15:41:08 JS: the original CfC was also flawed
15:41:15 Please file the ALL the bugs that describe the work that needs to be done on this document.
15:42:02 PC: heard Liam's concern about 2 documents that are in conflict - but now hearing that there are multiple new content to be added
15:42:20 PC: don't understand why a heartbeat cannot be published now
15:43:20 JB: this has been explained in multiple ways - the TF feels very strongly here to not do this, don't understand why that cannot be respected?
15:43:38 PC: can do that. people need to file the bugs and indicate what needs to be done
15:44:11 PC: concern is that this document will not be published even into December
15:44:44 JB: have already previewed the EO work, so there should not be a huge impediment there
15:45:08 JB: this TF has stated multiple times what we believe is the most prudent path
15:45:33 PC: Can respect this if TF can clearly define the bar that needs to be met
15:45:44 JB: clarity is the dependance on the longdesc decision
15:46:09 JS: I would say that that represents 90% of that
15:46:28 agenda?
15:46:37 JS: however if we end up with enough significant changes there may be a need for another CfC
15:46:41 -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
15:47:24 JB: Makes sense to look at this after the bugs are filed
15:47:33 ack p
15:47:48 zakim, next item
15:47:48 agendum 5. "Canvas 2D -- Missing requirement in the CR spec" taken up [from janina]
15:48:35 JS: What needs to happen next is on Janina (me) - Q: did the canvas group meet? What needs to happen next?
15:48:53 See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2014OctDec/0000.html
15:49:18 PC: believe this is being handled by the canvas TF
15:49:30 PC: next meeting on 10/10
15:49:32 Agenda for Canvas TF meeting 10/10 - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2014OctDec/0010.html
15:49:48 zakim, next item
15:49:48 agendum 6. "TF Work Items (HTML.Next)" taken up [from janina]
15:50:19 JS: have reviewed minutes going back to June, looking at what would constitute HTML.next
15:51:02 JS: ASking Cyns about Menus - will we have time to look at this before or at TPAC?
15:51:09 CS: unfortunately no
15:55:03 JF: ideas and discussion on transcripts
15:55:18 TPAC Ad hoc meetings: https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2014/ad-hoc-meetings
15:55:18 PC: there is a wiki page for ad-hoc meetins at TPAC
15:55:59 See TPAC home page: http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/#participation
15:56:10 PC: there does not seem to be a direct link off of the TPAC page, but use the link(s) provided
15:56:38 [ list of tpac registrants at https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2014/registrants ]
15:56:49 Select participation and under the AC meetings and dinner, there is a section for ad-hoc meetings
15:57:01 JS: next items owned by Chaals - accesskey and web-payments
15:57:21 JS: that leaves footnotes - expect that will come from D-pub
15:57:23 Q+
15:57:42 JS: let them help lay out requirements
15:58:00 JS: seem to be the key items
15:58:06 ack jf
15:58:45 ack l
15:58:47 JF: David MacDonald and I have had a few brief discussions around footnotes
15:59:14 Liam: concerns around footnotes as well - need to know what kind of link it is
15:59:23 JS: any other comments?
15:59:34 -Cynthia_Shelly
15:59:35 -Judy
15:59:36 -janina
15:59:36 -Joanmarie_Diggs
15:59:39 -JF
15:59:42 s/concerns around/dpub community has concerns around/
15:59:48 rrsagent, generate minutes
15:59:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/09-html-a11y-minutes.html paulc
15:59:48 -Liam
15:59:49 JS: adjourned.
15:59:51 rrsagent, make logs public
16:00:10 rrsagent, draft minutes
16:00:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/09-html-a11y-minutes.html JF
16:00:14 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has ended
16:00:14 Attendees were janina, Liam, Joanmarie_Diggs, paulc, JF, Judy, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Cynthia_Shelly
16:00:26 zakim, please part
16:00:26 Zakim has left #html-a11y
16:00:46 rrsagent, draft minutes
16:00:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/09-html-a11y-minutes.html JF
16:01:01 zakim, please part
16:01:11 rrsagent, please part
16:01:11 I see no action items