14:16:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dpub
14:16:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/10/06-dpub-irc
14:16:31 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:16:31 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dpub
14:16:33 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
14:16:33 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 44 minutes
14:16:34 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
14:16:34 <trackbot> Date: 06 October 2014
14:16:59 <tzviya> i'll be on the phone in a moment
14:19:10 <ivan> tzviya, there is still more than half an hour
14:19:38 <mgylling> tzviya, the edits are pushed to the repo btw
14:20:00 <mgylling> thanks to Ivan’s  quick adding of me as a member
14:20:12 <tzviya> thank you
14:20:28 <tzviya> did you want to discuss rich's questions?
14:54:26 <clapierre> clapierre has joined #DPUB
14:55:17 <Ayla-Stein> Ayla-Stein has joined #dpub
14:57:49 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started
14:57:57 <Zakim> +astearns
14:58:09 <Zakim> +clapierre
14:58:30 <Zakim> +Markus
14:58:53 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
14:58:53 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
14:58:55 <Zakim> +Ivan
14:58:57 <mgylling> regrets: Luc Audrain, Michael Miller, Vladimir Levantovsky, Timothy Cole, Laura Fowler, Liza Daly
14:59:03 <dkaplan3> dkaplan3 has joined #dpub
14:59:20 <Zakim> +Tzviya
14:59:20 <pkra> pkra has joined #dpub
14:59:33 <Zakim> +pkra
14:59:38 <Zakim> +astein
14:59:39 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:59:59 <Karen> zakim, code?
14:59:59 <Zakim> the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Karen
15:00:01 <Zakim> +[Safari]
15:00:12 <ivan> zakim, IPcaller is Bill
15:00:12 <Zakim> +Bill; got it
15:00:13 <Zakim> +dauwhe
15:00:16 <philm> philm has joined #dpub
15:00:22 <bjdmeest> bjdmeest has joined #dpub
15:00:28 <Zakim> +Karen_Myers
15:00:30 <dkaplan3> zakim, [Safari] is me
15:00:30 <Zakim> +dkaplan3; got it
15:00:31 <Zakim> +LauraD
15:00:40 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #dpub
15:00:49 <ivan> zakim, Bill is Bill_Kasdorf
15:00:49 <Zakim> +Bill_Kasdorf; got it
15:00:50 <Zakim> +[Ugent]
15:00:55 <murakami> murakami has joined #dpub
15:00:57 <bjdmeest> zakim, Ugent is me
15:00:57 <Zakim> +bjdmeest; got it
15:01:06 <bjdmeest> zakim, mute me
15:01:06 <Zakim> bjdmeest should now be muted
15:01:15 <Zakim> +philm
15:01:28 <Zakim> +??P26
15:01:42 <murakami> zakim, ??P26 is me
15:01:42 <Zakim> +murakami; got it
15:02:15 <Zakim> +azaroth
15:02:19 <azaroth> azaroth has joined #dpub
15:02:29 <azaroth> zakim, who is here?
15:02:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see astearns, clapierre, Markus, Ivan, Tzviya, pkra, astein, Bill_Kasdorf, dkaplan3, dauwhe, Karen_Myers, LauraD, bjdmeest (muted), philm, murakami, azaroth
15:02:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see azaroth, murakami, Bill_Kasdorf, bjdmeest, philm, pkra, dkaplan3, Ayla-Stein, clapierre, Zakim, RRSAgent, tzviya, mgylling, fjh, dauwhe, Karen, ivan, liam, astearns,
15:02:32 <Zakim> ... plinss, trackbot
15:02:38 <Karen> Scribe: Karen
15:02:50 <Zakim> + +1.201.783.aaaa
15:03:15 <ivan> zakim, aaaa is pbelfanti
15:03:15 <Zakim> +pbelfanti; got it
15:03:35 <pbelfanti> pbelfanti has joined #dpub
15:03:38 <mgylling> last weeks minutes: http://www.w3.org/2014/09/29-dpub-minutes.html
15:03:39 <Karen> Markus: Thanks everybody for joining today
15:03:46 <Bert> Bert has joined #dpub
15:03:50 <Karen> …Can we approve last week's minute?
15:03:56 <tmichel> tmichel has joined #dpub
15:03:58 <Karen> …Please speak up if you do not want to approve
15:04:01 <Karen> [Silence]
15:04:06 <Karen> …Ok, perfect [approved]
15:04:10 <mgylling> TPAC agenda: http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/TPAC2014-F2F
15:04:14 <Karen> …Today we have a pretty stable agenda for TPAC
15:04:15 <Zakim> +??P4
15:04:20 <Karen> …let's see what remains to do for meeting bookings
15:04:24 <Zakim> + +33.4.92.38.aabb - is perhaps Bernard
15:04:30 <tmichel> zakim, ??P4 is me
15:04:30 <Zakim> +tmichel; got it
15:04:43 <ivan> zakim, aabb is Bert
15:04:43 <Zakim> sorry, ivan, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
15:04:55 <Karen> Markus: So to TPAC agenda page
15:05:01 <tmichel> zakim, who is here?
15:05:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see astearns, clapierre, Markus, Ivan, Tzviya, pkra, astein, Bill_Kasdorf, dkaplan3, dauwhe, Karen_Myers, LauraD, bjdmeest (muted), philm, murakami (muted), azaroth,
15:05:05 <Zakim> ... pbelfanti, tmichel, Bert
15:05:05 <Zakim> On IRC I see tmichel, Bert, pbelfanti, azaroth, murakami, Bill_Kasdorf, bjdmeest, philm, pkra, dkaplan3, Ayla-Stein, clapierre, Zakim, RRSAgent, tzviya, mgylling, fjh, dauwhe,
15:05:05 <Zakim> ... Karen, ivan, liam, astearns, plinss, trackbot
15:05:08 <Karen> …let's being with a check-in with the ones we are stable with
15:05:25 <dkaplan3> mailto:%6b%61%74%69%65@%74%68%65%72%65%61%6c%6b%61%74%69%65.%6e%65%74
15:05:27 <Karen> …on the Friday afternoon the presentation by Internationalization with Richard Ishida between 3-4pm is booked
15:05:47 <Karen> …Tzviya, that meeting with Janina in Protocols and Formats WG is set?
15:05:55 <Karen> Tzviya: She proposed two sessions
15:05:58 <Karen> …2pm on Thursday
15:06:06 <brady_duga> brady_duga has joined #dpub
15:06:15 <Karen> …to talk for 90 minutes to talk about structural semantics and general accessibility concerns
15:06:33 <Karen> …and then picking up at 4:00pm to talk about some of issues that ETF had raised about personalization
15:06:40 <Karen> …May be good time to bring in people from SVG as well
15:06:46 <Karen> …but we have not yet reached out to them
15:06:57 <Karen> Markus: We had proposed a recap session at that time, but that is easy to move
15:07:05 <Karen> …first one is 14:00-15:30 with P&F
15:07:07 <Karen> …then break
15:07:10 <Zakim> +duga
15:07:14 <Karen> …then 16:00 to when?
15:07:29 <Karen> Tzviya: She [Janina] had proposed to 18:00
15:07:34 <Karen> …but she has not yet discussed with others
15:07:41 <Karen> Markus: I'll work on the SVG invitation
15:07:44 <Karen> …Ok, great
15:07:55 <Karen> …If that is what they are reserving, we should take the bait
15:08:00 <Karen> …have you confirmed, Tzviya?
15:08:04 <Karen> Tzviya: yes
15:08:06 <Karen> Markus: Great
15:08:18 <Karen> …Then where do we book the Books in Browsers recap session?
15:08:29 <Karen> …It's likely to have presentations that we want to circle back on during our meeting
15:08:37 <Karen> …We need a suitable slot for that
15:08:49 <Karen> Ivan: I idid not realize P&F needed the whole afternoon
15:08:56 <Karen> Tzviya: not sure if we need the whole time
15:09:08 <Karen> Markus: Should we do 16:00-17:00 for the second slot?
15:09:11 <Karen> Ivan: yes
15:09:22 <Karen> …we cannot spend whole afternoon only on it
15:09:34 <fjh> zakim, code?
15:09:34 <Zakim> the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), fjh
15:09:34 <Karen> Markus: But we are doing pagination for the morning! [smiles]
15:09:40 <Karen> Ivan: Yes, because it's core!
15:09:43 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:09:45 <fjh> zakim, ipcaller is me
15:09:45 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
15:09:53 <Karen> Markus: Dave, speaking of pagination, how are things going for that Thursday morning sessions
15:10:03 <Karen> Dave: I am working on it; brought it up to CSS on last call
15:10:17 <Karen> …I am writing now and they asked to say who are most important people [for this session]
15:10:25 <Karen> Bert: There will be people from CSS; I will be there, too
15:10:35 <Karen> …Smart to send an email and see who will be there prceisely
15:10:44 <Karen> Markus: Let me see…two outstanding things is invitations
15:10:51 <Karen> …invitees from CSS for Thursday morning
15:11:03 <Karen> …and I need to invite the SVG WG for second session with PF on Thursday afternoon
15:11:05 <Karen> q+
15:11:15 <Karen> Markus: It says the Friday morning STEM session is a placeholder
15:11:21 <Karen> …Peter, have you confirmed a pre-brief?
15:11:24 <Karen> Peter: right
15:11:29 <Karen> …i don't remember why we made it a place holder
15:11:35 <Karen> …I can make the time and give an update
15:11:42 <Karen> …on where we are and spawn a discussion
15:11:44 <Karen> Markus: great
15:11:53 <tzviya> q+
15:11:56 <Karen> Peter: I remember now why it's a placeholder; I was not sure how much progress we would have
15:12:07 <Karen> …it is still an open problem for me; speed is not what I would have liked
15:12:11 <Karen> …would like to take it up
15:12:22 <Karen> …no news on that end; have some calls this week, my own time is fuzzy
15:12:37 <Karen> Markus: I just removed the placeholder marker, so consider yourself booked
15:12:46 <Karen> …We have generous lunch breaks; three hours both days
15:12:57 <Karen> …not about eating pastries for 3 hours; it's intended for ad hoc meetings
15:13:07 <Karen> Ivan: and we are already using some of it on Thursday
15:13:16 <Karen> Markus: yes, from 4 to 3 hours originally
15:13:25 <Karen> …Any questions suggestions or remarks
15:13:33 <mgylling> q?
15:13:36 <Karen> ack Karen
15:13:36 <mgylling> ack Karen
15:14:10 <tzviya> karen: we are expecting some observer guests from organizations that are considering membership
15:14:52 <Karen> Markus: We will give them a warm-hearted welcome
15:14:56 <tzviya> ...let's make sure we understand their role in terms of direct dialogue
15:15:06 <mgylling> ack tzviya
15:15:25 <Karen> Tzviya: Peter, remind me, is there anyone you would like to invite to STEM meeting outside of DPub
15:15:37 <Karen> Peter: I suggested the MathML group
15:15:41 <Karen> …Inkling sounds great
15:15:46 <Karen> …I think that is the only thing I mentioned
15:16:03 <Karen> Tzviya: Markus, we had talked about possibly inviting people from HTML to the Thursday meetings
15:16:05 <Karen> Markus: yes
15:16:14 <pkra> q+
15:16:19 <Karen> …thought we might do that over one of the lunch breaks; with Michael Smith and one of the eidtors
15:16:21 <Karen> s/editors
15:16:27 <Karen> …we don't have a session dedicated to HTML
15:16:37 <Karen> Ivan: If we get into the discussion on the paging
15:16:44 <Karen> …I am not sure that everything will only be CSS
15:16:54 <Karen> …then it becomes very much a topic that touches upon HTML, the DOM
15:17:09 <Karen> …so maybe if we have some idea of the structure of the Thursday morning in this sense
15:17:22 <Karen> …then getting someone from HTML to be around for that part of the discussion would be very helpful
15:17:32 <Karen> Brady: I'm not sure if answer is because that it can all be done in CSS
15:17:41 <Karen> …and we go down the @ model path
15:17:46 <Karen> …I don't know who is necessary for this
15:17:53 <Karen> Markus: Right
15:18:00 <Karen> …I'm checking the attendee list
15:18:06 <Karen> @ signed up to attend Friday
15:18:16 <Karen> …so we don't have anyone from the [HTML] group at this time
15:18:17 <ivan> s/@/Ted O'Connor/
15:18:26 <Karen> Markus: Dave, what do you think?
15:18:50 <Karen> …This session is more about getting the IG oriented in the book 3 and functional requirements and use cases; does not feel like it's urgent to have HTML experts around
15:19:00 <Karen> …but maybe I'm being pessimistic about the amount of progress being made
15:19:10 <Karen> Dave: It does not feel like it's necessary at this stage
15:19:22 <Karen> …more to give this group an idea of what is happening and what is likely to happen
15:19:32 <Karen> …i have done searching across the mailing list; there is very little about this
15:19:40 <Karen> …has been an undercurrent for a while
15:19:51 <Karen> …some people may be afraid to address because it could be such a massive effort
15:19:52 <Karen> Ivan; Ok
15:19:53 <mgylling> q?
15:19:58 <Karen> Markus: Ok
15:20:01 <mgylling> ack pkra
15:20:04 <Karen> ack Peter
15:20:12 <Karen> Peter: maybe not quite the right message
15:20:30 <Karen> …two weeks ago there was a short statement around improvement of tables to do decimal marker, alignment
15:20:34 <Karen> …these kinds of these
15:20:36 <Karen> s/things
15:20:45 <Karen> …I jumped in to say they exist on the MathML spec
15:20:54 <Karen> …and could be a conversation about how these things move up in the spec
15:20:57 <Karen> …I wanted to bring this up
15:21:11 <Karen> …at TPAC, or we could bring up at another time
15:21:21 <Karen> …I think Dave or Tzviya brought this up a couple weeks ago
15:21:31 <Karen> Ivan: I don't remember; I'm not sure I understand what the idea is
15:21:36 <Karen> Tzviya: a joint effort
15:21:50 <Karen> …I had given Dave an example of something that occurs frequently in books that includes math
15:22:03 <Karen> …there is something that can be done with we align with decimals
15:22:11 <Karen> …I think Dave has incorporated into the document
15:22:31 <Karen> …i think Peter's question is that this crosses MathML and Pagination, perhaps this is an example of something that crosses other Working Groups
15:22:36 <Karen> …and discuss where this should live
15:22:41 <Karen> Peter: That is a great summary
15:22:51 <Karen> Markus: Where improvements of table rendering should live
15:22:54 <Karen> …is that the topic?
15:22:57 <Karen> Peter: I guess, yes
15:23:06 <azaroth_> azaroth_ has joined #dpub
15:23:11 <Karen> s/Peter/Dave: there is a whole group of equations
15:23:13 <Karen> …that may not align
15:23:18 <Bill_Kasdorf> this same issue comes up in poetry
15:23:23 <Karen> …although talking about aligning on particular objects
15:23:34 <Karen> …not sure if its' about table case and table column alignment
15:23:40 <Karen> …table case is pretty specialized
15:23:46 <pkra> q+
15:23:49 <Karen> …I know there have been some things in CSS to align
15:23:54 <Karen> …but have been removed or depricated
15:24:15 <Karen> Markus: how is this different from all the other things in LatinrRec?
15:24:17 <Bert> q+ to say there will be nobody from MathML, except me. (But PeterK is as good an expert on MathML as anybody in the Math WG, I expect...) And table alignment in CSS is something for the long term...
15:24:20 <Karen> …what stands out?
15:24:38 <Karen> Dave: From broader perspective, table alignment is a requirement for people who make lots of different kinds of books
15:24:50 <Karen> …it seems quite rational to mention this in LatinRec
15:24:59 <Karen> …how we bring this capability into the OWP, I am less sure about
15:25:07 <mgylling> q?
15:25:09 <Karen> ack Pkra
15:25:11 <mgylling> ack pkra
15:25:15 <Karen> Peter: My perspective
15:25:22 <Karen> …when this first came up two weeks ago
15:25:38 <Karen> …it seems  perfect example of a common need that could also help the STEM and Math side
15:26:09 <Karen> …MathML's tables are more powerful than HTML tables…results in implementations being a pain the a**
15:26:16 <Karen> …cannot have such a powerful table model
15:26:20 <Karen> …why I jumped on this
15:26:33 <Karen> …seems like a great opp to have a conversation about how STEM and Math could help inform CSS and HTML
15:26:38 <Karen> …and move these forward more quickly
15:26:46 <Karen> …might just be a few simple things that could be done in CSS and HTML
15:26:56 <mgylling> ack Bert
15:26:56 <Zakim> Bert, you wanted to say there will be nobody from MathML, except me. (But PeterK is as good an expert on MathML as anybody in the Math WG, I expect...) And table alignment in CSS
15:26:56 <Karen> …that could help to reduce the complexity today
15:26:57 <ivan> q?
15:26:59 <Karen> ack Bert
15:26:59 <Zakim> ... is something for the long term...
15:27:05 <Karen> Bert: Aligning tables is indeed an old topic
15:27:10 <Karen> …CSS2 was not implemented
15:27:17 <Karen> …for the moment, no one is against it
15:27:23 <Karen> …it will be in some other module
15:27:32 <Karen> …it's a low priority item, but nobody is pushing for it either
15:27:38 <Karen> …you will need a lot of lobbying
15:27:44 <Karen> …Other thing I wanted to say
15:27:50 <tzviya> http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/REC-MathML3-20140410/chapter3.html#presm.malign
15:28:07 <Karen> …is I don't think it's useful to schedule a session on MathML since except for me, there won't be anyone at TPAC
15:28:10 <Karen> …and Peter is more expert
15:28:13 <Karen> Markus: Right
15:28:13 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:28:18 <Karen> Ivan: I think that writing these things down
15:28:19 <pkra> right. That doesn't make sense then...
15:28:21 <Karen> …what Peter talked about
15:28:27 <Karen> …very clearly would be very interesting
15:28:35 <Karen> …and also maybe become part of our report
15:28:41 <Karen> …that we would use to talk to various people
15:28:46 <Karen> …I see Alan making a comment
15:28:51 <Karen> …on irc that this should be done
15:28:59 <Karen> …and if we have to lobby with CSS or HTML WGs, I don't know
15:29:02 <Karen> …we an try it
15:29:08 <Karen> …but we cannot do it at TPAC; it's too close now
15:29:24 <Karen> Markus: Peter, can you consider taking on Alan's suggestion to compare the models?
15:29:30 <Karen> Peter: yes, I can
15:29:47 <Karen> [light scribing :)]
15:29:55 <Karen> Tzviya: not before TPAC
15:30:01 <pkra> thanks, Karen :-)
15:30:11 <Karen> Action: Peter to compare MathML tables with HMLT
15:30:11 <trackbot> 'Peter' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., pkra, plinss).
15:30:14 <Karen> s/HTML
15:30:25 <Karen> Markus: anything else about the agenda?
15:30:25 <Bill_Kasdorf> q-
15:31:05 <ivan> Action: pkra to compare MathML tables with HTML, and write it up on a wiki page
15:31:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-27 - Compare mathml tables with html, and write it up on a wiki page [on Peter Krautzberger - due 2014-10-13].
15:31:14 <Karen> Bill: the alignment issue is also important in poetry; so not just for Maths; want it to be seen as a more general alignment
15:31:21 <Karen> Markus: the agenda is beginning to look stable
15:31:24 <Karen> …next thing we have
15:31:28 <Karen> …looking at agenda
15:31:35 <Karen> …and we will spend time at TPAC with PF
15:31:48 <Karen> …we have been working with Janina and others to prepare a document
15:31:58 <Karen> …We thought that we would take some quality time here to look at the document
15:32:01 <ivan> -> http://w3c.github.io/dpub-content-and-markup/ document on the repo
15:32:07 <Karen> …and ask Tzviya to describe the input she has had from PF
15:32:19 <Karen> …and from our side, have a firm idea of where we should be when TPAC ends
15:32:23 <Karen> …regarding the actual work
15:32:39 <Karen> …and make sure we use time before TPAC to get this [document] published, that would be really great
15:32:47 <Karen> …we'll look forward to learning more in the next half hour
15:33:00 <Karen> Tzviya: We have been looking to find a way to do structural HTML
15:33:14 <Karen> …we are familiar with EPUB structural semantics vocab
15:33:30 <Karen> …this document includes a proposal to work with PF to create a digpub vocab of a module of ARIA
15:33:39 <Karen> …and earlier version of doc was shared with Protocols and Formats
15:33:42 <Karen> …we cleaned up a bit
15:33:54 <Karen> ..mostly linguistic clarity about responsibilities of this group
15:34:00 <Karen> …than how it fits with ARIA
15:34:11 <Karen> …and more clearly delineate the benefits of the structural semantics vocab
15:34:16 <Karen> …I think the intro is pretty clear
15:34:18 <dkaplan3> q+
15:34:23 <Karen> …Sorry I just sent out the doc
15:34:36 <Karen> …historically this has been a problem to provide accessible content
15:34:45 <Karen> …and to create HTML content that is reusable and easy to write
15:34:58 <Karen> …So what we hope to accomplish is to sit down with PF WG to work through issues
15:35:16 <Karen> …Setting up this voca; taking look at existing @ vocab; sort out what needs to be there; duplicates
15:35:20 <Karen> …tags that are associated
15:35:32 <Karen> …and then we will…there is a lot of work
15:35:43 <Karen> …needs to have an exact mapping to technologies; to each of these tags
15:35:52 <ivan> q+
15:35:55 <Karen> …if I say "chapter" I need to define, what behavior that iplies
15:35:58 <Karen> s/implies
15:36:07 <Karen> …there is an existing set of terms defined by IDPF
15:36:10 <Karen> …list of 200 terms
15:36:15 <Karen> …we may need to winnow that down
15:36:19 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:36:23 <Karen> …but make sure we have a clear definitation of those terms
15:36:31 <Karen> …hopefully have marching orders to do that out of TPAC
15:36:37 <Karen> …and write it up in the ARIA style
15:36:42 <Karen> …here's what it means; here's how it works
15:36:52 <mgylling> q?
15:36:56 <Karen> ack Deborah
15:36:57 <mgylling> ack dkaplan
15:37:05 <Karen> dkaplan: I have feedback about the document
15:37:15 <Karen> …should I bring it up now, or is this more of a structural conversation?
15:37:32 <Karen> Tzviya: If brief, yes; otherwise, I will take email comments on GitHub
15:37:39 <mgylling> ack ivan
15:37:40 <Karen> Deborah: ok, I'll send on GitHub
15:37:46 <Karen> ivan: two things
15:37:53 <Karen> …one is that it's my understanding
15:38:12 <Karen> …if we do not define assistive technology for a particular term
15:38:17 <Karen> …then the enclosed tag is valid
15:38:25 <Karen> …if we do not define for each and every 200 terms
15:38:33 <Karen> …for assistive technologies, that is sort of ok?
15:38:43 <Karen> Tzviya: I'll let Markus answer
15:38:48 <Karen> Markus: that's the idea, yes
15:38:57 <Karen> …these 200 terms may be a misleading thing
15:39:04 <Karen> …One of problems we struggled with in IDPF voca
15:39:07 <Karen> …is core set
15:39:17 <Karen> …of domain-agnostic terms everyone can recognize
15:39:24 <Karen> …but also have domains...
15:39:42 <Karen> …we have engaged with educational publishers who want to have hundreds of their terms recognized
15:39:50 <Karen> …Twofold; a publishing vocabulalry
15:39:55 <Karen> …a core set of common terms
15:40:07 <Karen> …and then this unfinished space, called distributed extensitbility
15:40:10 <Karen> …the ideal solution
15:40:28 <Karen> …we would have to embrace core common terms and other domains
15:40:37 <Karen> …what you just asked is critical
15:40:50 <Karen> …If assistive tech encounters a term it does not recognize, then it is not a major issue
15:40:56 <Karen> Ivan: that is very important
15:41:04 <Karen> …I have a second, different question
15:41:12 <Karen> …Who will "own" this specification?
15:41:24 <Karen> …on the one hand, we have to have a clear consensus of the user community
15:41:37 <Karen> …which means that the terms themselves should be defined by IDPF
15:41:48 <Karen> …on the other hand, I assume PF wants to have that as a rec coming from PF
15:41:54 <Karen> …to reinforce its validity for HTML
15:42:03 <Karen> …I am not sure how this whole thing will play out in practice
15:42:19 <Karen> ..I would be very concerned if the definition of all the terms is in the hands exclusively of PF
15:42:23 <Karen> …we need IDPF
15:42:44 <Karen> Markus: I think it has been the common pre-conception that this ARIA @ will be published under W3C IP process
15:42:54 <Karen> …it wants to become part of ARIA
15:43:06 <Karen> …whether terms and conditions are in line or external has not been decided yet
15:43:10 <Karen> …we need to figure out how to do it
15:43:22 <Karen> …if we duplicate a subset in @ space, we would have synchronization issues
15:43:28 <Bill_Kasdorf> q-
15:43:36 <Karen> …if we have PF module to subset elsewhere, it could be cleaner
15:43:41 <Karen> …not sure if it would lead to IP issues
15:43:51 <Karen> Ivan: That is not a problem in case of IDPF
15:44:00 <Karen> …process is such that it should not create a problem
15:44:06 <Karen> …i don't think we need to decide this here
15:44:30 <Karen> …If we could find a way to get 3-4 people sitting down, like Ralph, to have a clean setup for processes that would not lead to problems later
15:44:31 <mgylling> q?
15:44:38 <Karen> Tzviya: This is also a question that Rich asked me
15:44:53 <Karen> Ivan: So involving Ralph and Ian during one of the lunch periods on Friday is a good idea
15:45:10 <Karen> Markus: clarify; document would be published under W3C IP
15:45:24 <Karen> Tzviya: he asked about clarification of IP and stated partnership with IDPF
15:45:37 <Karen> Ivan: As an IG, we are not chartered to produce formal recommendations
15:45:51 <Karen> …we an participate in the work, but it has to be published as a recommendation by a Working Group
15:45:54 <Karen> …all the iP issues
15:45:59 <Karen> …Wiley, formally should join
15:46:05 <Karen> Tzviya: we did on Friday
15:46:18 <Bill_Kasdorf> great news about Wiley joining!!
15:46:28 <Karen> Ivan: We need a clear space for IDPF
15:46:39 <Karen> Markus: And we need to discuss the vocab terms
15:46:40 <Zakim> -duga
15:46:43 <Karen> …in terms of a document
15:46:50 <Karen> …we need to figure out how to squeeze that part in
15:47:02 <Karen> …don't need to decide that now, but answer those questions in the document
15:47:15 <Karen> …that IDPF is in the doc and is contributing its vocab in more detail
15:47:18 <Karen> …that is one thing
15:47:18 <mgylling> q?
15:47:33 <Karen> Markus: I have a question
15:47:36 <Karen> …Chapter two
15:47:43 <Karen> …about assistive technologies
15:48:00 <Karen> …one of the eye openers I had working with educational publishers is the importance of semantic richness
15:48:06 <Karen> …@ time and repurposing time
15:48:14 <Karen> …I don't think we have authoring and repurposing
15:48:18 <Karen> …should we add that?
15:48:23 <Karen> Tzviya: That makes sense
15:48:34 <Karen> Markus: Maybe remove 1-5 to clear space and add a section 4
15:48:53 <Karen> …in-house processing or processing behaviors
15:48:54 <mgylling> q?
15:49:02 <Karen> Tzviya: all right
15:49:10 <Karen> Markus: Anything else you would like to bring up?
15:49:27 <Karen> Tzviya: the meeting we have with PF is about broader accessibility issues
15:49:42 <Karen> …Deborah, you had a comment, and also Charles is on phone…other issues?
15:49:45 <Karen> Deborah: sure
15:49:51 <Karen> …my issue was about… in the document
15:50:03 <Karen> …section on improved navigation, locating print artifacts
15:50:13 <Karen> …I was thinking about ability to ignore print artifacts
15:50:28 <Karen> …sometimes those artifacts can get loud and distracting
15:50:35 <Karen> …you should be able to ignore them, too
15:50:41 <Karen> Markus: page numbers for example
15:50:45 <Karen> Tzviya: ok
15:50:53 <mgylling> q?
15:50:55 <Karen> Markus: Anything else?
15:51:01 <Karen> Deborah: That was my initial feedback
15:51:18 <Karen> …I think this conversation has been very useful to me on how to re-read this document for feedback
15:51:26 <Karen> …about how it will be used
15:51:29 <Karen> …this has been helpful
15:51:38 <Karen> Markus: Good, please keep it coming
15:51:46 <Karen> Tzviya: yes, this is not final by any means
15:51:54 <Karen> Markus: Meant to be a joint statement
15:52:08 <Karen> Tzviya: I need to pass these comments along to PF, but not today due to my schedule
15:52:13 <Karen> …I will get it to them soon
15:52:30 <Karen> Markus: Anyone else?
15:52:42 <Karen> …if no more questions, we can end early
15:52:44 <azaroth> q+ to ask about next week, as holiday in US
15:53:07 <Karen> Markus: Ivan mentioned specifying IP expectations
15:53:15 <mgylling> q?
15:53:18 <Karen> …if there is a standard way to express that, please let us know
15:53:25 <Karen> Ivan: not sure I understand what you are asking
15:53:48 <Karen> Tzviya: Rich commented if this is work of joint TF, we need to explain how content was generated
15:53:56 <Karen> Ivan: you mean the document you produce right now?
15:54:00 <Karen> Tzviya: yes
15:54:08 <Karen> Ivan: that will be a Note; not so relevant
15:54:22 <Karen> …but eventual module needs to be published by WG
15:54:30 <Karen> Markus: yes, and we wanted to suggest stating that clearly
15:54:43 <Karen> Ivan: We make it clear that goal is to produce a rec published by PF WG
15:54:52 <Karen> …with contributions from this IG
15:54:56 <Karen> …then that by itself is clear
15:55:06 <Karen> …and it comes under IP protection of PF WG
15:55:12 <Karen> …does not require a pre-defined statement
15:55:17 <mgylling> ack azaroth
15:55:17 <Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to ask about next week, as holiday in US
15:55:19 <Karen> Tzviya: A week from today is a holiday
15:55:22 <Karen> Rob: yes
15:55:30 <Karen> Markus: holiday again!
15:55:54 <Karen> Tzviya: It's for Christopher Columbus
15:56:03 <Karen> Rob: Will we have call or not?
15:56:05 <dauwhe> http://theoatmeal.com/comics/columbus_day
15:56:07 <Ayla-Stein> How can you discover a continent that already has people there? We should meet in protest!
15:56:12 <Karen> Markus: I am leaning towards doing it?
15:56:16 <Ayla-Stein> j/k
15:56:19 <Ayla-Stein> but not really
15:56:27 <Karen> Ivan: I need to send regrets but for other reasons
15:56:35 <clapierre> regrets as well I will be out of town.
15:56:37 <Karen> @: Office is open, but sending regrets
15:56:42 <Karen> Markus: Let's do the call
15:56:45 <azaroth> Regrets from me as well
15:56:52 <Bert> (Possible regrets from me also. Not sure yet.)
15:56:53 <Karen> …but we may change our minds end of week
15:56:56 <Karen> …Thanks everyone
15:57:01 <Karen> …talk to you hopefully next week
15:57:03 <Zakim> -dkaplan3
15:57:04 <Zakim> -LauraD
15:57:04 <Zakim> -philm
15:57:04 <Zakim> -Markus
15:57:05 <Zakim> -pbelfanti
15:57:05 <Zakim> -Ivan
15:57:06 <Zakim> -astearns
15:57:06 <Zakim> -Tzviya
15:57:07 <Karen> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:57:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/06-dpub-minutes.html Karen
15:57:08 <Zakim> -dauwhe
15:57:08 <Zakim> -clapierre
15:57:09 <Zakim> -astein
15:57:09 <Zakim> -Bert
15:57:09 <Zakim> -murakami
15:57:10 <Zakim> -bjdmeest
15:57:10 <Zakim> -pkra
15:57:11 <Zakim> -azaroth
15:57:12 <Zakim> -fjh
15:57:16 <Zakim> -Karen_Myers
15:57:19 <Zakim> -Bill_Kasdorf
15:57:26 <Karen> welcome!
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16:05:02 <Zakim> Attendees were astearns, clapierre, Markus, Ivan, Tzviya, pkra, astein, dauwhe, Karen_Myers, dkaplan3, LauraD, Bill_Kasdorf, bjdmeest, philm, murakami, azaroth, +1.201.783.aaaa,
16:05:02 <Zakim> ... pbelfanti, +33.4.92.38.aabb, tmichel, Bert, duga, fjh
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