16:48:44 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
16:48:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/10/06-aria-irc
16:48:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
16:48:46 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aria
16:48:48 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
16:48:48 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(ARIA)1:00PM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
16:48:49 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
16:48:49 <trackbot> Date: 06 October 2014
16:48:52 <richardschwerdtfeger> chair: Rich
16:49:04 <richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
16:49:15 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make log public
16:53:46 <janina> janina has joined #aria
16:56:22 <fesch> fesch has joined #aria
16:57:01 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(ARIA)1:00PM has now started
16:57:08 <Zakim> +Fred_Esch
16:59:15 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:59:55 <Zakim> +??P14
17:01:12 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
17:01:12 <Zakim> On the phone I see Fred_Esch, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, ??P14
17:01:20 <janina> zakim, ??P14 is me
17:01:20 <Zakim> +janina; got it
17:01:37 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:02:06 <LJWatson> LJWatson has joined #ARIA
17:02:29 <Zakim> +Jon_Gunderson
17:02:32 <LJWatson> zakim, who is on the phone?
17:02:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see Fred_Esch, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, janina, [IPcaller], Jon_Gunderson
17:02:43 <Zakim> +Joanmarie_Diggs
17:02:46 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
17:03:03 <Zakim> +Susann_Keohane
17:03:16 <LJWatson> zakim, [IPcaller] is LJWatson
17:03:16 <Zakim> +LJWatson; got it
17:03:22 <joanie> Zakim, I am Joanmarie_Diggs
17:03:22 <Zakim> ok, joanie, I now associate you with Joanmarie_Diggs
17:03:48 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Oct/0008.html
17:04:29 <clown> clown has joined #aria
17:04:40 <Susann_Keohane> Susann_Keohane has joined #aria
17:05:10 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
17:05:21 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:05:21 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
17:05:30 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:05:30 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:05:57 <Stefan> Stefan has joined #aria
17:06:02 <Zakim> -Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:06:06 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Oct/0008.html
17:06:54 <Zakim> +Matt_King
17:07:30 <jcraig> jcraig has joined #aria
17:07:48 <mattking> mattking has joined #aria
17:07:57 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
17:08:01 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:08:01 <Zakim> sorry, clown, I do not see a party named 'Joseph_Scheuhammer'
17:08:07 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:08:08 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
17:08:10 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:08:10 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:08:21 <Zakim> +[Apple]
17:08:26 <jcraig> Zakim, Apple is jcraig
17:08:27 <Zakim> +jcraig; got it
17:08:27 <jongund> TOPIC: TPAC
17:08:34 <jongund> ready
17:08:56 <jongund> Janina: We almost have a calendar, thursday is booked
17:09:17 <jongund> Janina: Starting with WebTV, best time
17:09:32 <jongund> Janina: 11:15 HTML working group on two topics
17:10:01 <jongund> Janina: Accessible graphics and event handler enumeration
17:11:05 <jongund> JC: Recommend that a solution in place, it has come up and been shot down, we need at least one browser implementing
17:11:27 <jongund> Janina: We need a separate time to discuss this recommendation
17:11:48 <jongund> Janina: We are concerned about DRM stuff getting in the way
17:11:50 <jcraig> s/at least one browser implementing/at least one implementor on board in order to raise this again/
17:12:20 <jongund> RS: Comcast is building an accessible set top box
17:12:31 <jongund> Janina: I have also seen it at CSUN
17:12:43 <jongund> RS: Is there something specific?
17:13:08 <richardschwerdtfeger> q?
17:13:17 <jongund> RS: What are they looking to standardize?
17:13:18 <Zakim> +Stefan
17:13:30 <jcraig> s/Recommend that a solution in place, it has come up and been shot down/Recommend the PF group only raise this issue again if a technical proposal is ready to go with it/
17:14:00 <jongund> Janina: Say something that long, so there are some opportunities that would have captions and multiple languages, can be used for testing, talking to mark about this
17:14:18 <jongund> RS: Isnt there a mandate
17:14:19 <Zakim> +Bryan_Garaventa
17:14:51 <jongund> Janina: Not all in a mandate, especially in audio descriptions
17:15:04 <jongund> RS: You have to have something concrete
17:15:06 <Zakim> +??P10
17:15:35 <jongund> JC: The same thing probably applies, event enumeration has be raised and declined many times
17:15:38 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aria
17:15:52 <jongund> Janina: We have a chain of e-mails on the list
17:16:19 <jongund> JC: The original reasons were not on the list
17:16:24 <bgaraventa1979> zakim, I am Bryan_Garaventa
17:16:24 <Zakim> ok, bgaraventa1979, I now associate you with Bryan_Garaventa
17:16:51 <jongund> Janina: Shane stated security was one of the main reasons
17:17:17 <jongund> JN: Tools can already do this, they just need to write plateform specific test tools
17:17:21 <Zakim> + +1.919.607.aaaa
17:17:28 <jongund> JC: I agree
17:18:02 <jongund> RS: We are going to have UI events, and design patterns, I am more focused on where we are going, than where we have been
17:18:13 <jongund> JN: It is the same issue on security
17:18:29 <jongund> RS: Query event handlers?
17:19:15 <jongund> JC: Everything we need is already there, this group has already rejected this
17:19:37 <jongund> Janina: We need to put hat together on the compelling reason
17:19:45 <jongund> JN: We should drop it
17:20:13 <jongund> JC: My director says I only have silver bullets, is this one we want to use a bullet it on?
17:20:14 <clown> q+ to discuss longdesc
17:20:22 <clown> zakim, ack me
17:20:22 <Zakim> Joseph_Scheuhammer, you wanted to discuss longdesc
17:20:23 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
17:20:28 <jongund> RS: Please cannot discuss longdesc?
17:21:33 <jongund> Janina: Can we go back to the agenda
17:21:49 <jcraig> s/My director says I only have silver bullets, is this one we want to use a bullet it on?/One of my directors sometimes says, "I only have a few silver bullets… I don't want to waste of them one on this issue."/
17:22:30 <jongund> Janina: We are still working on nailing the meeting done, 66% done
17:22:45 <jongund> Janina: Digital publishing in the after lunch
17:22:52 <richardschwerdtfeger> q?
17:22:58 <richardschwerdtfeger> +1
17:23:05 <jongund> Janina: We have another 30 minutes with the HTML group
17:23:21 <jongund> Janina: We then have time with Mark H
17:23:42 <jongund> RS: The big things are the taxonomy for graphics, and the validation issues
17:24:27 <jongund> RS: the whole think with keyboard, the biggest advances are CSS and web apps
17:24:57 <jongund> RS: It would be nice to have a modal dialog box, but we don't see that much on mobile
17:25:21 <jongund> JC: Another issue is data providers for tables, everyone has there own
17:25:39 <jongund> JC: It is a huge issue for accessibility and performance
17:26:09 <jongund> JC: I am not sure I have time to prepare a summary of the topic
17:26:28 <jongund> Janina: So not something they should work on in the near future
17:26:41 <jongund> JC: I think we can ask them  too
17:27:27 <jongund> JC: Let me think about it more, there are major benefits for accessibility and some on performance, it would take me some time to think about it
17:27:54 <jongund> Janina: We want to think about the future and take advantage of meeting time with other groups
17:28:46 <jongund> JC: The way most table views, similar to set-size and ste-position, maybe only a couple 100 view elements, some unordered view
17:29:34 <Birkir_> Birkir_ has joined #aria
17:29:34 <jongund> JC: only the element in the current view are available, the data source will provide more when needed, this is all managed by the author now
17:29:36 <Zakim> -LJWatson
17:30:35 <jongund> MK: How does pos inset, press the down arrow, it requests a row element and gets the next row
17:31:09 <jongund> JC: You can easily get ahead of what the data is available, so there are gaps in the user view of information
17:31:39 <jongund> JC: Let me search for something in the table, but not all the data is there in these rendered views
17:31:57 <jongund> JC: milliseconds versus seconds
17:32:32 <jongund> JC: Scroll wheel scrolling has similar effects, an API to get to these data sources is much more effecient
17:32:58 <jongund> MK: If there is something not rendered, I would not expect a screen reader to search it
17:33:25 <jongund> JC: There maybe data in the memory, but the data is not rendered
17:33:54 <jongund> JC: if you had something like safari native find it could search these APIs
17:34:15 <jongund> MK: How you want to do that search is different between applications
17:34:39 <jongund> JC: Other plateforms use APIs, but the web doesn't have a solution
17:35:06 <jongund> MK: I don't see how solving it for accessibility is only for accessibility
17:35:18 <jongund> JC: It is not specific for accesibility, but it will help
17:35:29 <jongund> RS: Anything else on this one?
17:35:37 <jongund> Jania: Not for me
17:35:51 <jongund> RS: The DOM thing would be nice, but the other ones are critical
17:36:10 <jcraig> s/milliseconds versus seconds/milliseconds versus double-digit seconds/
17:36:36 <jongund> MK: There was a discussion about parametrized queries?
17:36:41 <jongund> RS: That wil move to 2.x
17:36:54 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
17:36:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see Fred_Esch, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, janina, Jon_Gunderson, Joanmarie_Diggs, James_Nurthen, Susann_Keohane, Matt_King, Joseph_Scheuhammer, jcraig, Stefan,
17:36:57 <Zakim> ... Bryan_Garaventa, Michael_Cooper (muted), +1.919.607.aaaa
17:37:07 <jongund> TOPIC: Name computation (issue 541)
17:37:11 <clown> issue-541
17:37:12 <trackbot> issue-541 -- Text Alt Comp too specific to ARIA attributes (aria-valuetext and aria-valuenow) -- raised
17:37:12 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/541
17:37:12 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/541
17:37:12 <jcraig> s/Other plateforms use APIs, but the web doesn't have a solution/All native platforms render table views and list views this, but the Web doesn't have a solution for table and collection view data providers./
17:37:26 <jcraig> s/All native platforms render table views and list views this, /All native platforms render table views and list views this way, /
17:37:58 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accessiblename/accName.html#mapping_additional_nd_te
17:38:10 <jongund> JC: I have proposed text there
17:38:14 <jcraig> Current text: If the embedded control is a range (e.g., a spinbutton or slider), use the value of the aria-valuetext attribute if available, or otherwise the value of the aria-valuenow attribute.
17:38:34 <jcraig> Proposed: If the embedded control is a range (e.g., a spinbutton or slider), use the text value if defined (e.g. aria-valuetext), or otherwise the value of the control (e.g., aria-valuenow, or host language value attribute).
17:39:06 <jongund> JC: This is editroial
17:39:09 <jongund> RS: I agrre
17:39:28 <jongund> RS: Can we assign this to the implementation guide
17:39:34 <MichaelC> ack me
17:39:41 <jongund> JS: We are close tot being done
17:39:54 <MichaelC> ack me
17:40:00 <jongund> RS: Put it on the 1.1 implementation guide
17:40:26 <jongund> MC: We can do it on the implementation guide or something new
17:40:34 <jongund> RS: JS are you all set?
17:41:04 <jongund> JS: When I reviewed all the HTML references it was language similar to JC wording, I like JC workings
17:41:15 <jongund> s/workings/wording/
17:41:15 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/542
17:41:27 <jongund> TOPIC: Issue 542
17:41:45 <jongund> RS: Proper fall back
17:41:59 <jongund> JC: This has slipped between the cracks in the CSS spec
17:42:47 <jongund> JC: If its using comma separated lists for alternative content, webkit supports, I doubt there is other implementation
17:43:03 <jongund> JC: There is an ALT property in the CSS specs
17:43:26 <jongund> JC: The test tools need to look at the live DOM and this information is the DOM
17:43:39 <jongund> JS: Is that specific to HTML or can it also be used in SVG
17:43:49 <jongund> JC: I think right now it is specific to HTML
17:44:00 <jongund> JS: It can be attribute X
17:44:33 <jongund> JC: ALT doesn't mean anything on divs
17:44:58 <jongund> JC: It is for localization via the stylesheet
17:45:21 <jongund> JS: We have COR, HTML specific and SVG specific, where does this go?
17:45:48 <jongund> JC: Let me change the example, you can't render content directly on the element
17:46:17 <jongund> RS: If this is going into CSS, we need to look at it
17:46:29 <jcraig> <div data-fallback="Bar">Foo</div>
17:46:29 <jcraig> div::after {
17:46:30 <jcraig> content: url(icon.png), attr(data-fallback);"
17:46:31 <jcraig> }
17:46:38 <jongund> JC: This has been in since CSS 2
17:46:51 <jongund> RS: Do you sit in on all this stuff
17:47:03 <jongund> JC: I don't go to the calls, but I follow the specs
17:47:16 <jongund> RS: I have not seen people use it
17:47:29 <jongund> JC: It works in one browser
17:47:39 <jongund> JC: Chicken and egg problem
17:48:03 <jongund> Janina: If we talk about this friday morning, who should we invite from CSS
17:48:12 <jongund> RS: We need to look at this alot more
17:48:35 <Birkir_> Birkir Gunnarsson on phone too, long time absent. 919 number.
17:48:35 <jongund> JC: This has only been added recently
17:48:45 <jongund> JC: fall back text content ....
17:48:54 <jongund> RS: Are there more things we need to look at
17:49:06 <jongund> JC: Potentially....
17:49:53 <jongund> RS: The separation of content and presentation is getting blurry, so this is a concern
17:50:05 <jcraig> s/I think right now it is specific to HTML/The data-* attributes are specific to HTML, but the attr() content is not./
17:50:24 <jongund> JN: Which CSS spec is this in?
17:50:32 <jongund> JC: CSS 4 selectors...
17:50:43 <jongund> JN: I will take a look
17:51:07 <MichaelC> ack me
17:51:13 <jongund> RS: Is WCAG looking at this?  This is a big can of worms, test tools and authoring practices...
17:51:18 <jongund> ISSUE 542
17:51:20 <MichaelC> issue-542?
17:51:20 <trackbot> issue-542 -- Text Alt Comp section on CSS generated content does not allow for proper CSS content fallback -- raised
17:51:20 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/542
17:51:42 <jongund> MC: What are you asking me?
17:52:11 <jongund> RS: The issue here, you have the ability to add ALT content form CSS instead of the HTML source
17:52:48 <jongund> RS: It has to go into the name commputation, authoring practices, we need to have a closer look at this CSS feature, we need to pay ...
17:52:49 <Birkir_> assistive technologies, at least screen readers, do not search for alt content of CSS either (at lesat speaking definitivel for Jaws/NVDA)
17:53:18 <jongund> JC: We discussed this, but didn't get proposed to the CSS working group
17:53:48 <jongund> JC: It was this groups inaction that made me proposed to the CSS working group
17:54:15 <jongund> RS: Other that JC, we are not looking at this holistically
17:54:47 <jongund> Janina: I think WCAG will pay attention to it, we also need to pay more attention to it
17:54:56 <MichaelC> q+ to say WCAG will want techniques but they need to be accessibility supported
17:55:08 <jongund> RS: Can we create an action for the WCAG group look at this
17:55:50 <jcraig> s/It was this groups inaction that made me proposed to the CSS working group/It was this group's inaction that made me propose to the CSS working group separately, because it was delaying accessibility of several Apple products./
17:55:53 <jongund> MC: There are several people in this group that are in the WCAG group, we can do it as a chair to chair thing, or as a technique group issue
17:56:22 <jongund> MC: We still have to get someone to write a technique, and then we need to make sure there is accessibility suppoort
17:56:45 <jongund> MC: We need to wai for implementation and create test cases
17:57:07 <jongund> RS: Can we get access to this through the DOM in webkit?
17:57:46 <MichaelC> qq-
17:57:47 <jongund> JC: In webkit nightly we make label available in the DOM and it will include CSS information
17:57:49 <MichaelC> q-
17:58:08 <jongund> JC: 5 or 6 years in webkit
17:58:36 <MichaelC> q+ to clarify ¨testing to WCAG compliance¨
17:58:41 <jongund> RS: Current tools are using the DOM, is there a way to get at it in the CSS ....
17:59:17 <jongund> JS: It might not be able to get the computer label, so you want a way to get the computed label
17:59:40 <jcraig> CSS "alt" discussion on www-style: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Nov/0319.html
18:00:07 <jongund> MC: You may mean test the WCAG techniques, but the group recommends testing for more ....
18:00:28 <MichaelC> ack me
18:00:28 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to clarify ¨testing to WCAG compliance¨
18:00:56 <jongund> MC: We need to have accessibility support, even if it can in theory be accessible
18:01:18 <jongund> MC: There is a CSS object model spec, but I don't know alot about it
18:01:26 <MichaelC> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/cssom/ CSS Object Model
18:01:35 <jongund> RS: CSS is becoming more popular that Javascript
18:01:52 <jongund> Janina: Can we get some time at TPAC on the topic
18:02:27 <jongund> MC: I recollect that there was some work, but it may have been dropped
18:02:41 <jamesn> jcraig, I saw the mail. I still can't find it in a spec. I'm concerned about how this works. Calling it fallback seems incorrect and I just want to see how it is specified
18:02:44 <jongund> RS: RS: You mean an accessibility API mapping?
18:03:02 <jongund> RS: We had talked about a accessible name mapping
18:03:11 <Zakim> -Susann_Keohane
18:03:20 <jongund> JC: That was proposed for the DOM.....
18:03:56 <jongund> JC: get computed role and get computed ... I discussed in January
18:06:15 <jongund> RS: One way or another we need to get this information, either the final name and or through the CSS
18:06:40 <jongund> JN: This can be done in a browser specific environment, through extensions
18:06:51 <jongund> JN: Simiar to even model stuff
18:07:16 <jongund> RS: Is there a way to do this across browser
18:08:03 <jongund> JN: If you are using Firefox and Webkit you have access to this information
18:08:18 <jongund> RS: It depends on how mush they are doing with CSS
18:08:30 <jcraig> s/mush/much/
18:08:32 <jongund> JG: We do this with OpenAjax tools
18:08:55 <jcraig> q+ to talk about CSS WG process
18:09:14 <jongund> RS: I am concerned that CSS is changing features on how we find content in the browser
18:09:29 <jcraig> s/Firefox and Webkit you have access to this information/Firefox and Webkit you have access to this information through extensions/
18:09:51 <jongund> RS: Only in the last week we have been looking at this from a tool perspective
18:10:05 <jongund> JN: I know about generated content
18:10:17 <jongund> JC: I wrote one for webkit
18:10:29 <clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testresults?testsuite_id=1&testcase_id=553
18:10:31 <jongund> MK: We used generated content in place of sprits
18:10:44 <jcraig> s/I know about generated content/I know about generated content; I wrote the tool we use as a FF extension/
18:10:48 <jongund> JS: There is a test case in the test suite test for this
18:11:05 <jongund> RS: We don't have it for this one, for generating ALT text
18:11:29 <jcraig> q?
18:12:02 <jongund> RS: We need to look at this in much more detail
18:12:13 <jongund> Janina: We will look at this all Friday morning
18:12:35 <jongund> RS: JN if someone puts in an image VIA CSS
18:12:53 <jongund> JN: FF doesn''t support it yet, but when it does it will
18:13:33 <jongund> JN: It is required to have a text alternative
18:14:04 <jongund> RS: The group meeting I was in required to have ALT attribute
18:14:41 <jongund> JN: There was a big discussion about this in WCAG, there are in the techniques now, we did not get TITLE
18:14:52 <jongund> RS: We beat that to death, ....
18:15:03 <jongund> JN: There is not technique for TITLE
18:15:15 <jcraig> q?
18:15:26 <jcraig> ack me
18:15:26 <Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to talk about CSS WG process
18:16:20 <jongund> JC: We need more people in other working groups with accessibility interests...
18:16:23 <MichaelC> WCAG-ACTION-282?
18:16:23 <trackbot> WCAG-ACTION-282 -- Michael Cooper to Raise issue of css technique for generated content fallbacks https://www.w3.org/wai/pf/group/track/issues/542 -- due 2014-10-13 -- OPEN
18:16:23 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/282
18:16:33 <jongund> Janina: It has to be a two way street
18:16:54 <jongund> Janina: We did that in HTML reasonably well
18:17:04 <jongund> JC: Rich is in SVG
18:17:15 <jongund> RS: We need someone in CSS
18:17:33 <jongund> JC: We need more people in CSS with accessibility concerns
18:17:39 <jongund> RS: we need to do that
18:18:11 <jongund> RS: like the canvas thing, we need to have someone to work in that area
18:18:34 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/609
18:18:55 <jongund> RS: Any proposed text?
18:19:19 <jongund> JC: There is proposed text, so assign to implementation guide
18:19:27 <jongund> RS: Signed over
18:19:39 <jongund> ISSUE-642
18:19:39 <trackbot> ISSUE-642 -- alt text computation should distinguish between nameFrom contents during root node calculation versus recursive calculation. -- raised
18:19:39 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/642
18:19:40 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/642
18:19:59 <jongund> RS: We don't do that
18:20:24 <jongund> JC: JS just commented, so this is a larger name that needs to happen
18:20:34 <jongund> RS: JS can you take this on?
18:20:37 <jongund> JS: Sure
18:20:57 <jongund> JC: This was a constant point of confusion in the psuedo code
18:21:09 <jongund> RS: A section on name and description
18:21:28 <jongund> Janina: Do we want to talk to the HTML time?
18:21:39 <jongund> JC: We should invite SF to the discussion
18:21:50 <jongund> JC: Jason Kiss too
18:22:53 <clown> action-1073?
18:22:53 <trackbot> action-1073 -- Matthew King to Update aria-selected to reflect that it communicates selectability and clarify responsibility for ensuring aria-selected=false is on selectable elements -- due 2014-09-29 -- OPEN
18:22:53 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1073
18:22:58 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1073
18:23:14 <jongund> MK: Some how I got this, I did not ask for
18:23:25 <jongund> MK: I am still willing to work on it
18:23:36 <jongund> MK: Lets put it out three weeks
18:24:20 <jongund> RS: After TPAC, how about November 18th
18:24:55 <jongund> ACTION-1335
18:24:55 <trackbot> ACTION-1335 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Propose edit for issue-493 to explicitly disallow strings matching "" or "undefined" in this sentence: content authors must provide values for required states and properties. -- due 2014-09-30 -- OPEN
18:24:55 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1335
18:25:02 <clown> action-1335
18:25:02 <trackbot> action-1335 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Propose edit for issue-493 to explicitly disallow strings matching "" or "undefined" in this sentence: content authors must provide values for required states and properties. -- due 2014-09-30 -- OPEN
18:25:02 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1335
18:25:33 <jongund> Joanie: I am learning how to edit the spec tomorrow, can we push it back a week
18:25:50 <jongund> RS: You want to put a "author must"
18:26:08 <jongund> RS: We will have to test
18:26:22 <clown> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/complete#requiredState
18:26:25 <jongund> JC: We just say does this content pass it ...
18:26:45 <jongund> RS: We do have to cover it with the director
18:26:56 <jongund> JS: it is already in the spec...
18:27:11 <jongund> RS: Just a clarification, are you happy with the text
18:27:32 <jongund> JC: I said my language is clunky, but it is accurate
18:27:35 <jongund> RS: A week
18:27:54 <jongund> JC: You are already familiar with GET?
18:27:58 <jcraig> Content authors must provide a non-empty value for required attributes; this value may not match the format "undefined".
18:28:00 <jongund> Joanie: Yes
18:28:38 <joanie> s/GET/git/
18:29:22 <jongund> JC: ... discussing spec editing and who should do what and outcomes ....
18:29:36 <jongund> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:29:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/06-aria-minutes.html jongund
18:29:49 <jongund> RS: Joanie do you want any notes
18:30:04 <jongund> Joanie: I just want the clarification of what JC
18:30:34 <jongund> JC: The phase that author must ... it must be part of the requirement
18:30:47 <jongund> JC: Let me type it into IRC
18:31:12 <jcraig> RFC-2119 reqs should clearly define who is required to do what e.g. Authors MUST or User Agents MUST, etc.
18:31:19 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
18:31:38 <jongund> JC: I would phrase this to be more like (pause)
18:31:49 <jongund> RS: So you put in a semi colon
18:32:04 <jongund> JC: I am pointing out that is the wrong way to do it
18:32:23 <jcraig> Content authors MUST provide a non-empty value for required attributes and Authors MUST NOT use the value "undefined" for requeired attrs.
18:32:34 <clown> +1
18:32:39 <clown> "required"
18:32:53 <clown> s/requeired/required/
18:32:54 <jongund> JC: This is more explicit, that we require that "undefined" must not be used
18:33:19 <jongund> RS: Feel free to improve the text
18:33:59 <Zakim> -Bryan_Garaventa
18:34:02 <Zakim> -Stefan
18:34:13 <Zakim> -Joanmarie_Diggs
18:34:18 <Zakim> -Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:34:23 <jongund> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:34:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/06-aria-minutes.html jongund
18:34:27 <Zakim> - +1.919.607.aaaa
18:34:28 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
18:34:42 <Zakim> -jcraig
18:34:43 <Zakim> -Matt_King
18:34:45 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
18:34:48 <Zakim> -Fred_Esch
18:34:54 <Zakim> -Jon_Gunderson
18:34:55 <Zakim> -janina
18:34:55 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(ARIA)1:00PM has ended
18:34:55 <Zakim> Attendees were Fred_Esch, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, janina, Jon_Gunderson, Joanmarie_Diggs, James_Nurthen, Susann_Keohane, LJWatson, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Matt_King, jcraig, Stefan,
18:34:55 <Zakim> ... Bryan_Garaventa, Michael_Cooper, +1.919.607.aaaa
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