17:02:14 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ua
17:02:14 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/10/02-ua-irc
17:02:16 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
17:02:16 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ua
17:02:18 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
17:02:18 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM already started
17:02:19 <trackbot> Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
17:02:19 <trackbot> Date: 02 October 2014
17:02:27 <allanj> rrsagent, set logs public
17:03:15 <allanj> Chair: Jim Allan and Kelly Ford
17:03:20 <jeanne> zakim, who is on the phone?
17:03:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see Greg_Lowney, Jeanne
17:03:24 <allanj> Agenda+ TPAC
17:03:26 <allanj> Agenda+ Writing tests
17:03:51 <Jan> Jan has joined #ua
17:04:05 <Zakim> +Jim_Allan
17:04:22 <Zakim> +Kim_Patch
17:04:30 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:04:43 <Jan> zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan
17:04:43 <Zakim> +Jan; got it
17:06:29 <jeanne> agenda+ Charter timeline
17:07:11 <allanj> scribe: allanj
17:07:22 <allanj> open item q
17:07:27 <allanj> open item 1
17:07:55 <allanj> registration paid for invited experts
17:08:17 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
17:09:39 <Jan> I'll be here http://www.ramada.com/hotels/california/sunnyvale/ramada-silicon-valley/hotel-overview
17:10:28 <allanj> still working on travel.
17:16:15 <allanj> all, discussion of travel and lodging.
17:16:52 <allanj> zakim, close item 1
17:16:52 <Zakim> agendum 1, TPAC, closed
17:16:53 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:16:53 <Zakim> 2. Writing tests [from allanj]
17:17:05 <allanj> zakim, open item 2
17:17:05 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Writing tests" taken up [from allanj]
17:21:06 <allanj> wiki page for testing, greg to create magic script for numbers and text
17:21:15 <KimPatch> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Technique_Development_Assignments
17:22:07 <allanj> mobile task force, have a wiki list, pick task, due monday, in survey, then survey reviewed at meeting
17:23:09 <allanj> if we get tests done quickly, and hopefully few comments, then do LC and CR simultaneously
17:23:56 <allanj> NDIVIDUAL PAGE TEMPLATE
17:23:58 <allanj> The individual pages are linked and named by the SC#
17:23:59 <allanj> I will set up a template that people can copy to create the individual page. Note that there can  be multiple tests for each SC.
17:24:01 <allanj> For each test:
17:24:02 <allanj> Test Assertion
17:24:04 <allanj> Procedure
17:24:05 <allanj> Expected Result
17:24:46 <allanj> assertion, specific thing you are testing in that test.
17:25:10 <allanj> 1 sentence
17:25:52 <allanj> different test for browser or audio player, separate assertion for each.
17:26:36 <allanj> need a test for every SC
17:27:43 <jeanne> http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/CR20/TestPrep20131206.html
17:27:58 <Jan> http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2013/ATAG2-10April2012PublicWD-Tests
17:33:51 <Jan> http://w3c.github.io/UAAG/UAAG20/#gl-obs-env-conventions
17:34:48 <allanj> js: don't over think the tests. keep it simple and generic
17:34:52 <jeanne> http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140311/G4
17:34:57 <Jan> brb
17:37:07 <allanj> we (UAWG) will have to perform all of the tests, and match to implementations
17:38:25 <allanj> kp: the examples will help write the test
17:39:18 <allanj> topic: Sample test 2.4.1
17:39:26 <allanj> 2.4.1 Text Search: The user can perform a search within rendered content, including rendered text alternatives and rendered generated content, for any sequence of printing characters from the document character set. (Level A)
17:40:32 <allanj> ja: do we need an html page?
17:40:49 <allanj> gl: what about all the other formats? can't do them all
17:41:14 <allanj> jr: atag has an accessible page, an inaccessible page to test against
17:42:17 <allanj> gl: are there sample test pages at least in html to test against
17:42:37 <allanj> js: before/after page from EO
17:43:14 <allanj> jr: really difficult to use, separate from the chrome of the EO pages
17:45:56 <allanj> Assertion: The user can perform a search within rendered content, including rendered text alternatives and rendered generated content, for any sequence of printing characters from the document character set.
17:46:57 <allanj> 1. load content with text, text alternatives, and generated content
17:47:07 <Jan> est 0001 Assertion: All editing-views enable text search where any text content that is editable by the editing-view is searchable, results can be made visible to authors and given focus, authors are informed when no results are found and search can be made forwards or backwards.
17:47:08 <Jan>     If the authoring tool does not allow the editing of text content (e.g. because it is a graphics editor), then select SKIP.
17:47:10 <Jan>     For each editing view that enables the editing of text content:
17:47:12 <Jan>         Load the accessible test content file (any level), which contains non-text content with text alternatives, in the editing view.
17:47:13 <Jan>         Choose a word that is repeated in the text and then determine whether a search function exists for the editing view that can find all of the instances of the word. In web-based tools, the search function may be part of the user agent. If this is not possible, then select FAIL.
17:47:15 <Jan>         When a match is found, check whether the match can be presentwed and given focus in the editing view. If this is not done, then select FAIL
17:47:16 <Jan>         Determine whether search is possible forwards and backwards. If it is not, then select FAIL
17:47:18 <Jan>         Choose a search term that is not in the content (e.g. a nonsense word) and search for it. If no indication is made of the failure of the search, then select FAIL
17:47:19 <Jan>         If the editing view enables editing of text alternatives for non-text content, choose a search term from within the text alternative. If the term cannot be found, then select FAIL.
17:47:20 <allanj> gl: what about searching for punctuation, etc.
17:47:21 <Jan>         Go to the next editing view that enables the editing of text content (if any).
17:47:22 <Jan>     Select PASS (all of the editing views must have passed)
17:51:55 <allanj> jr: create a page with a block of text with all kinds of characters, an image with alt of the same block of characters, and a paragraph "this paragraph has generated text preceding it" with the block of characters generated from css
17:53:55 <allanj> jr: create one big test file.
17:56:44 <allanj> 1. load page (with rendered text, alternative text, generated text), 2. search for a known string, 3. observe/record results
17:57:18 <allanj> note: need to create a page of content
18:00:44 <allanj> 2a. in rendered text, ( if pass go to next /fail), 2b. in alternative text ( if pass go to next /fail), 2c. in generated test ( if pass go to next / fail), 2d. search for foreign language character ( if pass go to next / fail)
18:04:50 <allanj> 1. load page (with rendered text, alternative text, generated text, foreign language characters),
18:04:52 <allanj> 2.  search for a known string in rendered text, ( if pass go to next else fail),
18:04:53 <allanj> 3. search for a known string in alternative text ( if pass go to next else fail),
18:04:55 <allanj> 4. search for a known string in generated test ( if pass go to next else fail),
18:04:56 <allanj> 5. search for foreign language character ( if pass go to next else fail),
18:04:58 <allanj> 6. mark PASS
18:06:38 <allanj> remove 6
18:06:39 <allanj> expected results
18:06:41 <allanj> 2-5 are true
18:07:13 <allanj> "known string" = string of text on the test page to have search success
18:07:45 <Jan> brb
18:08:09 <Jan> back
18:08:49 <allanj> js: how exact to we need to be in defining test (concern about cross technology applications)
18:10:59 <jeanne> 2-5 either PASS or are N/A
18:11:00 <allanj> in PDF not sure there is generated text. how to make sure? do we need to?
18:12:00 <allanj> gl: at the beginning state assumptions that some technologies may not have all features (e.g. PDF does not have generated content)
18:13:58 <allanj> js: there will be a comment area for each test, to explain NA
18:15:42 <jeanne> RESOLUTION: Use the WCAG model of writing tests with Procedure and Expected Results.
18:16:02 <allanj> RESOLUTION: Use the WCAG model of writing tests with Procedure and Expected Results.
18:17:24 <allanj> SC # stem: full text
18:17:30 <allanj> procedure:
18:17:37 <allanj> expected results:
18:18:36 <allanj> 2.4.1 done....as the Count would say .... ONE ah ah ah...
18:19:11 <allanj> send a tests in by monday, in survey by tuesday
18:20:33 <allanj> meeting on thursday - discuss only disagreements. severely limit smithing
18:20:57 <allanj> tests are NOT NORMATIVE we can change anytime
18:21:29 <allanj> "delayed smithing gratification"
18:22:06 <allanj> zakim, open item 3
18:22:06 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Charter timeline" taken up [from jeanne]
18:23:42 <allanj> how long will writing test take?
18:23:46 <jeanne> about 130 SC = 2 each per week = 4 months
18:24:37 <allanj> ja: 10 tests a week, could finish testing in 4 months. perhaps...
18:26:27 <allanj> 27 sc
18:28:42 <allanj> 27 gls, 45 sc in gl 1
18:29:36 <Zakim> -Jan
18:29:51 <Zakim> -Kim_Patch
18:30:19 <allanj> 44 sc om gl2
18:30:39 <allanj> 14 in gl 3
18:30:52 <Zakim> -Jim_Allan
18:30:58 <Zakim> -Jeanne
18:31:05 <allanj> 6 sc in gl 4
18:31:06 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
18:31:07 <Zakim> -Greg_Lowney
18:31:07 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
18:31:07 <Zakim> Attendees were Greg_Lowney, Jeanne, Jim_Allan, Kim_Patch, Jan, [Microsoft]
18:31:16 <allanj> 6 in gl 5
18:32:12 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
18:32:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/02-ua-minutes.html allanj
18:32:21 <allanj> zakim, please part
18:32:21 <Zakim> Zakim has left #ua
18:52:55 <allanj> rrsagent, please part
18:52:55 <RRSAgent> I see no action items