14:44:25 RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y 14:44:25 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/10/02-mobile-a11y-irc 14:44:27 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:44:27 Zakim has joined #mobile-a11y 14:44:29 Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF 14:44:29 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_MATF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 16 minutes 14:44:30 Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 14:44:30 Date: 02 October 2014 14:44:45 chair: Kathleen_Wahlbin 14:45:21 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2014Sep/0016.html 14:47:48 Agenda+ 15 minute discussion to talk about techniques people are working on. 14:47:49 Agenda+ Technique Survey - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140916_survey/. This survey includes the suggested revisions to G9 from the WCAG Working Group. 14:47:51 Agenda+ NEW survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140929_survey/ 14:47:52 Agenda+ Review technique assignments 14:52:28 WAI_MATF()11:00AM has now started 14:52:35 +Kim_Patch 14:53:26 Kathy has joined #mobile-a11y 14:53:33 agenda? 14:56:31 Regrets+ Alan 14:59:48 jeanne has joined #mobile-a11y 14:59:51 +Kathy_Wahlbin 15:00:15 Detlev has joined #mobile-a11y 15:00:51 +Jeanne 15:01:36 +Andrew_Kirkpatrick 15:02:21 AWK has joined #mobile-a11y 15:02:39 +Detlev 15:03:00 Jan has joined #mobile-a11y 15:03:07 zakim, code? 15:03:07 the conference code is 6283 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan 15:03:18 jon_avila has joined #mobile-a11y 15:03:51 Scribe: Kim_patch 15:04:00 +[IPcaller] 15:04:01 +[IPcaller.a] 15:04:20 zakim, I am IPcaller 15:04:20 ok, jon_avila, I now associate you with [IPcaller] 15:04:33 Brent has joined #mobile-a11y 15:04:33 zakim, list attendees 15:04:33 As of this point the attendees have been Kim_Patch, Kathy_Wahlbin, Jeanne, Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Detlev, [IPcaller] 15:04:37 +Brent_Shiver 15:04:37 zakim, I am IPcaller.a 15:04:38 ok, Jan, I now associate you with [IPcaller.a] 15:04:56 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Technique_Development_Assignments 15:04:59 zakim, take up next 15:04:59 agendum 1. "15 minute discussion to talk about techniques people are working on." taken up [from KimPatch] 15:07:26 Kathy: we have all of the ones assigned in G4 except 1 15:07:32 q? 15:07:58 Kathy: questions on techniques that have been assigned 15:09:30 Jon: often not a way to hide or return to the alternative, on mobile there really isn't embedded content 15:09:45 http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/G82.html 15:10:27 Jon: canvas really isn't method to hide, remove or mask it (G82). I can take that one and add a canvas example. Anything else people can recommend – are there any canvas techniques? 15:11:18 Andrew: don't know 15:12:28 Kathy: sending a technique by Monday means it will get on the survey for the next week, survey Tuesday morning to give people time to review before Thursday's call 15:13:02 q+ 15:13:08 q- 15:13:12 zakim, I am IPcaller 15:13:12 ok, jon_avila, I now associate you with [IPcaller] 15:13:19 zakim, take up next 15:13:19 agendum 2. "Technique Survey - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140916_survey/. This survey includes the suggested revisions to G9 from the WCAG Working Group." taken up 15:13:23 ... [from KimPatch] 15:13:34 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140916_survey/results 15:13:48 Kathy: survey from a couple weeks ago. We've gone through some of these, I want to get them wrapped up and finished 15:15:18 Kathy: #1 G4 accepted as proposed, but I wanted to bring up the WCAG working group was working on additional language to put into the description. One of the things that they were looking at adding was information about standard keyboard interface. Suggested change would include "a standard keyboard interface is always required under 2.2.1… 15:15:27 http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20120103/G4.html 15:16:23 Kathy: Katie and I talked about this on Tuesday after the WCAG working group call. The problem with adding that is if we are going to modify the description we need to include some additional language. The second sentence says a mechanism can be provided either by interactive control to conform to WCAG or by keyboard shortcuts. 15:16:36 This mechanism can be provided either through interactive controls that conform to WCAG or through keyboard shortcuts. Standard keyboard interface accessibility is always required (under 2.1.1), and if non-standard keyboard shortcuts are used, they are documented. 15:17:00 Kathy: wanted to bring that to the task force to see what your thoughts are on that – what you think of modifying the description overall 15:18:57 Kathy: I want to make sure the language is consistent – keyboard access is always referred to in a similar way. Right now we've got language that we are adding – or a keyboard interface such as an on-screen keyboard - into other techniques. One of my concerns here is I'm wondering if we need that clarification to this and that also that second sentence maybe needs "custom shortcuts" 15:19:58 Detlev: situation where normally don't get virtual keyboard unless you focus on some element that accepts text input so you wouldn't be able to bring up a virtual keyboard – not necessarily– or you would have to know how to do that so I'm confused whether that means accessible content can only be provided to devices that will have some form of either virtual or physical keyboards available... 15:20:00 ...at all times – I don't quite understand it 15:20:16 Kathy: keyboard refers to physical keyboard or on-screen keyboard or other interface 15:20:42 Detlev: but if you don't have a virtual keyboard how do you handle that 15:20:46 q+ 15:20:50 q? 15:21:23 Jan: 2.1.1 may be a note somewhere that says maybe there are interfaces without virtual keyboard 15:21:38 Kathy: if we add that sentence we are saying that is a problem 15:21:56 Detlev: you can also stop content by tapping or something else or keyboard wouldn't be the only way to conform 15:22:01 zakim, IPcaller.a is really Jan 15:22:01 +Jan; got it 15:22:21 Kathy: if the sentence gets added – a keyboard interface is always provided, then you don't have that option 15:22:41 Detlev: and it's just a technique that does not apply if there is no keyboard 15:22:58 q+ 15:24:10 Jon: I think it's not necessary for us to add this here. For other devices like the Windows phone obviously providing interactive control would solve the problem. It is covered there. It would apply. In addition we do have to solve the problem of the keyboard interface because WCAG is so keyboard focused. 15:24:51 q+ 15:24:53 Kathy: we can come back and say that we don't feel it's necessary and then let the WCAG working group decide. But if it is added I think we need to use the language that we have been working on. 15:24:56 q? 15:24:58 q- 15:24:59 q- 15:25:03 zakim, IPcaller is really Jon 15:25:03 +Jon; got it 15:25:33 ack Jon 15:25:40 ack AWK 15:26:39 Andrew: I think it was Katie, I think David might've been another person. Two different ways, focus on techniques and not muddy the waters, or make sure to remind people what's important. If the mobile group feels that it's muddying the waters then you should say so, and can indicate that back for the WCAG group to discuss. Similarly if you don't think so or if that's not a decision the... 15:26:41 ...working group makes, you can make an action such that when you come up with different keyboard language the WCAG group could commit to remain in sync with that in places where that's mentioned. 15:26:52 Kathy: I think that's a good way to approach it.. 15:26:56 q? 15:27:01 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/G9 15:27:52 http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20120103/G9.html 15:27:55 Kathy: G9 we have discussed this a couple of times. We have added can be accessed on a mobile device, video and audio 15:28:04 Kathy: any other comments on those changes? 15:28:53 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140916_survey/results 15:29:12 q+ 15:30:01 q+ 15:30:09 ack Jon 15:30:14 ack AWK 15:30:24 Jon: I agree with everything I'm good with it. As far as being alive, the content document talks about live presentations so I'm glad we are adding an example. This is a good update, modernizing the technique. 15:30:52 Andrew: is this a live webinar and you are viewing it on a mobile device, or are you sitting in the room and getting the captions on the fly 15:31:07 Jan: live event in the room 15:31:20 Andrew: is there a way to clarify that further 15:32:23 Jon: in the latter example, if I'm in the room and a PowerPoint at the same time? 15:32:24 Jan: no because it's not like coming across the web 15:32:41 Jan: it's not media if you are watching the person in this stage in front of you 15:33:04 Jan: to clarify this is a webinar of a live event and you are seeing the person's live video stream 15:33:09 sounds fine 15:34:14 A live conference is streaming video with audio for remote participants using Communication Access Real-Time Translation (CART) to provide users who are Deaf or hard of hearing with speech to text translation services that can be accessed on a mobile device (this also helps on-site participants needing captioning) 15:35:12 Jeanne: why not just say a webinar? It seems more immediate – everyone understands what a webinar is 15:36:11 Andrew: trying to help people understand that it's a challenge. But I understand, the biggest concern is if people read this and think it's for a live event, someone will point out that that stuff is not live content and so you don't need to meet WCAC with it 15:37:10 Kathy: any objections to not saying live conference and just saying webinar? 15:37:38 Jeanne: after remote participants put in parentheses webinar and that covers both 15:37:40 A live conference is streaming video with audio for remote participants (webinar) using Communication Access Real-Time Translation (CART) to provide users who are Deaf or hard of hearing with speech to text translation services that can be accessed on a mobile device (this also helps on-site participants needing captioning). 15:38:03 Kathy: any objections to this text? 15:38:08 +1 15:38:24 -Andrew_Kirkpatrick 15:39:03 Kathy: a live conference and a webinar for remote participants is streaming… 15:39:22 Jan: a live conference streaming an audio video webinar for remote participants 15:39:55 A live conference is streaming audio video webinar for remote participants using Communication Access Real-Time Translation (CART) to provide users who are Deaf or hard of hearing with speech to text translation services that can be accessed on a mobile device (this also helps on-site participants needing captioning). 15:40:10 Kathy: any objections to accepting this as amended? 15:40:27 A live conference is streaming audio-video webinar for remote participants using Communication Access Real-Time Translation (CART) to provide users who are Deaf or hard of hearing with speech to text translation services that can be accessed on a mobile device (this also helps on-site participants needing captioning). 15:40:39 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/G202 15:40:49 G202 15:40:51 http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/G202.html 15:41:54 Kathy: we've gone back and forth on this in terms of keyboard interface in the language that were using. Instead of the keyboard emulator we change that to keyboard interface. This one gets really into what we are doing as far as adding definitions for the keyboard interface to clarify this and using keyboard interface as the term we are using because that is actually defined already within WCAG 15:42:08 Kathy: anything further changed or does anyone think this needs further discussion? 15:42:44 q+ 15:42:54 q+ 15:43:15 Check that all functionality can be accessed using only the keyboard or keyboard interface, such as via an onscreen keyboard controllable by external switches. 15:44:25 Kathy: any objections? 15:44:26 q? 15:44:31 ack Jan 15:44:35 ack Detlev 15:44:40 q- 15:44:48 no objections heard 15:45:14 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140929_survey/ 15:45:29 zakim, take up next 15:45:29 agendum 3. "NEW survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140929_survey/" taken up [from KimPatch] 15:45:39 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/G21 15:45:39 G21 15:45:51 http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20120103/G21.html 15:45:59 Kathy: this is about ensuring that users are not trapped within content 15:47:29 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140929_survey/results 15:48:12 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/G21 15:48:48 Detlev: I thought it worthwhile to make it more general by mentioning tab key, arrow key, swiping for focus 15:49:28 Ensuring that the keyboard function for advancing focus within content in a device-supported way (e.g., the tab key, arrow key or swiping gestures) exits the subset of the content after it reaches the final navigation location. 15:49:55 Ensuring that the keyboard function for advancing focus within content in a device-supported way (e.g. via the tab key, arrow key or swiping gestures) exits the subset of the content after it reaches the final navigation location. 15:50:18 Kathy: any objections? 15:50:21 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/G78 15:50:22 no objections heard 15:50:30 Kathy: we will accept this one is amended 15:53:07 Detlev: Sentence hard to understand. It may need some rewording to make it easier to understand 15:53:13 Kathy: suggestions? 15:53:57 Kathy: could send this to the working group and see what they say 15:54:27 Detlev: I like examples that show it, but this might not be the place for that. If they want to reword it to make it clearer I would be good with that. 15:54:53 Kathy: objections to sending with note about clarifying 15:55:02 G85 15:55:04 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/G85 15:56:33 Jon: if it's not in the test, it's not a requirement 15:57:26 Jan: makes it sound like the author is on the hook to provide the sounds, vibrations. But actually it's much better to have something in the markup, and then the user agent decides how to get across in error 15:57:53 Jan: also the was mention of HTML5 examples and that didn't happen 15:58:16 Kathy: I was leaving that up to the HTML5 task force 15:58:35 q? 15:59:35 Detlev: it's quite difficult to grasp what the different methods of providing error handling – how they would interact. The classic scenario is just client-side check and behind that service side checks, but now you have HTML 5 built in. 16:00:32 Detlev: in many cases it's an either or, either something at the top, or on-the-fly pop-ups. so it often seems to be either or ways of dealing with missing or erroneous input 16:01:02 -Jan 16:01:20 Kathy: at another example. It's got a number of examples, one we added. 16:02:24 Kathy: second paragraph of description at the end – what if we just took out authors are advised… 16:02:50 I have jump off the call. 16:02:57 -Jon 16:03:32 -Brent_Shiver 16:03:58 Kathy: I'll put this one back on the survey and send it back out 16:04:11 -Jeanne 16:04:12 -Detlev 16:04:15 -Kathy_Wahlbin 16:04:43 zakim, list participants 16:04:44 As of this point the attendees have been Kim_Patch, Kathy_Wahlbin, Jeanne, Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Detlev, Brent_Shiver, Jan, Jon 16:04:51 rrsagent, make minutes 16:04:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/02-mobile-a11y-minutes.html KimPatch 16:06:40 rrsagent, bye 16:06:40 I see no action items