15:56:33 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dnt
15:56:33 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/10/01-dnt-irc
15:56:35 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:56:37 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be TRACK
15:56:37 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM already started
15:56:38 <trackbot> Meeting: Tracking Protection Working Group Teleconference
15:56:38 <trackbot> Date: 01 October 2014
15:56:46 <npdoty> npdoty has changed the topic to: 1 Oct agenda: http://www.w3.org/mid/1809FFA4-4FB9-4451-B48E-C0C13E0127DF@w3.org
15:56:53 <npdoty> chair: justin
15:57:22 <npdoty> regrets: schunter, fielding, dsinger, wileys, johnsimpson
15:58:42 <Zakim> +[FTC]
15:59:40 <Zakim> +hefferjr
16:00:31 <npdoty> Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:00:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see rvaneijk, [FTC], hefferjr
16:00:41 <justin> justin has joined #dnt
16:00:55 <Zakim> +npdoty
16:01:17 <Zakim> +Wendy
16:01:24 <eberkower> eberkower has joined #dnt
16:01:31 <Zakim> + +322548aaaa
16:01:36 <justin> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:01:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see rvaneijk, [FTC], hefferjr, npdoty, Wendy, +322548aaaa
16:01:48 <justin> zakim, aaaa is me
16:01:48 <Zakim> +justin; got it
16:02:01 <npdoty> volunteer to scribe?
16:02:09 <Zakim> +eberkower
16:02:17 <wseltzer> scribenick: wseltzer
16:02:22 <Zakim> +ChrisPedigoOPA
16:02:23 <moneill2> moneill2 has joined #dnt
16:02:26 <wseltzer> Justin: this will be a short meeting
16:02:35 <wseltzer> ... identify what people think we still need to discuss on TCS
16:02:40 <ChrisPedigoOPA> ChrisPedigoOPA has joined #dnt
16:02:52 <wseltzer> ... Only two related issues I know about, ISSUE-24 and ISSUE-235
16:02:54 <ChrisPedigoDCN> ChrisPedigoDCN has joined #dnt
16:02:59 <wseltzer> trackbot, ISSUE-24?
16:02:59 <trackbot> ISSUE-24 -- Possible exemption for fraud detection and defense -- pending review
16:02:59 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/issues/24
16:03:00 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:03:19 <moneill2> zakim, [IPCaller] is me
16:03:23 <Zakim> +moneill2; got it
16:03:29 <wseltzer> justin: we were close to consensus on 24, and then Shane noted an objection re: graduated response
16:03:36 <wseltzer> trackbot, ISSUE-235?
16:03:36 <trackbot> ISSUE-235 -- Auditability requirement in Reasonable Security section -- raised
16:03:36 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/issues/235
16:03:48 <wseltzer> justin: related issue-235, auditability
16:04:00 <npdoty> I don't think graduated response was actually required in the acceptable text. just preferred.
16:04:13 <wseltzer> ... proposal from Jack, strike language re: make sure use of data is auditable,
16:04:28 <wseltzer> ... Shane objected to any reference to graduated response
16:04:32 <wseltzer> .... Take to mailing list.
16:04:48 <wseltzer> ... Does anyone want to run with Jack's issue, given he's no longer participating?
16:04:55 <wseltzer> ... Or do we let it slide?
16:05:10 <wseltzer> ... I've gone through rest of issues, and don't in personal opinion see things we need to discuss.
16:05:18 <wseltzer> ... Anyone else have a read-through?
16:05:20 <npdoty> does anyone know what the argument was about auditability? is that unlikely to be implemented?
16:05:21 <wseltzer> q?
16:05:28 <npdoty> q+
16:05:45 <justin> ack npd
16:05:48 <justin> issue-32?
16:05:48 <trackbot> issue-32 -- Sharing of data between entities via cookie syncing / identity brokering -- pending review
16:05:48 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/issues/32
16:06:03 <wseltzer> npdoty: I haven't necessarily done a full audit, but a few updates
16:06:04 <eberkower> Zakim, mute me please
16:06:04 <Zakim> eberkower should now be muted
16:06:12 <wseltzer> ... I've marked pending-review the things I've addressed
16:06:23 <wseltzer> ... A few I'm not sure what to do
16:06:36 <wseltzer> ... e.g. personalization, defining new terms re browsing history
16:06:40 <wseltzer> ... these might just be editorial
16:06:52 <rvaneijk> q?
16:06:55 <rvaneijk> q+
16:07:04 <wseltzer> justin: If we're not going to use a term, no point in defining it
16:07:11 <wseltzer> ... so we can drop web browsing history
16:07:13 <npdoty> +1, don't need to define terms that we don't use.
16:07:14 <justin> ack rva
16:07:15 <wseltzer> ack rvaneijk
16:07:23 <wseltzer> rvaneijk: Separate issue: data append
16:07:33 <wseltzer> ... I was reviewing proposals on 3d-party compliance
16:07:50 <npdoty> thanks, rvaneijk, for looking at those proposals in detail
16:08:07 <wseltzer> ... Is data append still a separate issue, or accounted for in what text?
16:08:28 <wseltzer> justin: we had a cfo on data append, and I think we decided not to add language prohibiting data append
16:08:37 <wseltzer> ... schunter drafted, I haven't yet reviewed
16:08:50 <rvaneijk> ok, fair
16:08:52 <justin> q?
16:08:56 <npdoty> https://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/issues/170
16:08:59 <wseltzer> ... We announced the decision, that proposal to add prohibition on data append faced strong objections
16:09:12 <wseltzer> .... A couple Euro-specific issues I'm not sure what to do with
16:09:17 <npdoty> which I think is now currently reflected in the editor's draft, and would be present in either of the issue-203 responses
16:09:24 <wseltzer> ... a definition of DNT:0, an additional tracking header
16:10:05 <wseltzer> rvaneijk: We expressed from Article 29 that we were looking for technical building blocks
16:10:09 <wseltzer> ... most coming together
16:10:19 <wseltzer> ... if it's tied ot specific issues, probably ok
16:10:44 <npdoty> q+
16:10:46 <wseltzer> justin: these may be TPE issues
16:10:51 <pmagee> pmagee has joined #dnt
16:10:52 <justin> ack npd
16:11:14 <npdoty> http://www.w3.org/wiki/Privacy/TPWG/Change_Proposal_DNT_0
16:11:18 <wseltzer> npdoty: we have a change proposal on DNT:0, dwainberg suggested we remove text
16:12:10 <wseltzer> justin: I think Jonathan's language is tautological. can go to the group
16:12:26 <npdoty> I was fine with the existing text
16:12:30 <wseltzer> ... I haven't gone through change proposals. Will do after the call to see if anyone wants to pursue it.
16:12:42 <justin> issue-200
16:12:42 <trackbot> issue-200 -- Transitive exceptions -- open
16:12:42 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/issues/200
16:12:52 <npdoty> I understand dwainberg's proposal as being related to not having a sufficient definition, but hopefully the work on defining tracking has resolved that concern
16:13:00 <wseltzer> justin: one other issue, David Singer was working on, transitive exceptions
16:13:02 <wseltzer> ... don't recall the state
16:13:33 <wseltzer> npdoty: I think the tracker had it in compliance-next
16:13:39 <wseltzer> ... not urgent
16:13:41 <justin> issue-32?
16:13:41 <trackbot> issue-32 -- Sharing of data between entities via cookie syncing / identity brokering -- pending review
16:13:41 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/issues/32
16:13:52 <wseltzer> justin: two other issues
16:13:59 <wseltzer> ... old one (2011) cookie syncing
16:14:11 <wseltzer> ... whether we need specific language? my inclination is it should be clear without
16:14:15 <justin> q?
16:14:54 <justin> issue-223?
16:14:54 <trackbot> issue-223 -- Define criteria now for the test/implementation phase of the compliance spec -- raised
16:14:54 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/issues/223
16:15:11 <wseltzer> justin: dwainberg raised this issue-223
16:15:29 <npdoty> q+
16:15:34 <justin> ack npd
16:15:50 <wseltzer> npdoty: as a reminder, when we get to Candidate Recommendation phase, we call for implementatoins
16:16:05 <wseltzer> ... then at the end of that phase, we test the implementations for compliance
16:16:17 <wseltzer> ... we should take it up in CR, not now
16:17:02 <justin> q?
16:17:11 <wseltzer> ... David might have had a different idea, but the purpose of testing is to see whether there are implementations
16:17:25 <npdoty> since some things are done through internal systems, testing implementations from the outside may be non-trivial
16:17:34 <wseltzer> justin: Do folks have other issues against TCS?
16:17:39 <npdoty> I've seen WGs in the past use privacy policies, or statements from companies, to evaluate whether a spec is being implemented
16:17:54 <wseltzer> ... otherwise, I'll send a note to the list that the only open issues are reasonable security and potentially auditability
16:17:57 <wseltzer> q?
16:18:18 <wseltzer> justin: Next week, back to closing out TPE
16:18:28 <wseltzer> ... potentially a few TCS issues
16:18:32 <justin> q?
16:18:34 <npdoty> reminders
16:18:39 <npdoty> Audience Measurement Call for Objections closes October 9th.
16:18:39 <npdoty> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/49311/tpwg-audience-25/
16:18:40 <wseltzer> ... Hope to have all outstanding issues on TPE addressed
16:18:59 <wseltzer> justin: there are open CFOs: audience measurement, closing in 8 days
16:19:10 <wseltzer> ... deidentification closed
16:19:27 <rvaneijk> nice
16:19:30 <wseltzer> ... only objections to the Jack Hobaugh proposal, no objections to the language we'd worked out on the call
16:19:37 <wseltzer> ... thanks.
16:19:39 <Zakim> -ChrisPedigoOPA
16:19:40 <Zakim> -[FTC]
16:19:42 <Zakim> -moneill2
16:19:43 <rvaneijk> safe travels
16:19:44 <wseltzer> [adjourned]
16:19:45 <Zakim> -justin
16:19:48 <Zakim> -hefferjr
16:19:49 <Zakim> -npdoty
16:19:53 <Zakim> -eberkower
16:19:55 <Zakim> -rvaneijk
16:19:56 <Zakim> -Wendy
16:19:58 <Zakim> T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM has ended
16:19:58 <Zakim> Attendees were rvaneijk, [FTC], hefferjr, npdoty, Wendy, +322548aaaa, justin, eberkower, ChrisPedigoOPA, moneill2
16:20:01 <wseltzer> trackbot, end teleconf
16:20:01 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:20:01 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
16:20:09 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:20:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/01-dnt-minutes.html trackbot
16:20:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:20:10 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
16:20:58 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dnt
16:20:58 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/10/01-dnt-irc
16:21:03 <wseltzer> rrsagent, pointer?
16:21:03 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2014/10/01-dnt-irc#T16-21-03
16:21:10 <wseltzer> rrsagent, make logs public
16:21:17 <wseltzer> rrsagent, make mintues
16:21:17 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make mintues', wseltzer.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:21:26 <wseltzer> rrsagent, make minutes
16:21:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/01-dnt-minutes.html wseltzer
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