11:41:30 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #csvw
11:41:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/10/01-csvw-irc
11:41:32 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
11:41:32 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #csvw
11:41:34 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be CSVW
11:41:34 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see DATA_CSVWG()8:00AM scheduled to start in 19 minutes
11:41:35 <trackbot> Meeting: CSV on the Web Working Group Teleconference
11:41:35 <trackbot> Date: 01 October 2014
11:41:55 <ivan> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/csvw/wiki/Meeting_Agenda_2014-10-01
11:41:59 <ivan> Chair: Dan
11:42:14 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2014-10-01: https://www.w3.org/2013/csvw/wiki/Meeting_Agenda_2014-10-01
11:57:45 <yakovsh> yakovsh has joined #csvw
11:59:14 <danbri_> danbri_ has joined #csvw
11:59:35 <Zakim> DATA_CSVWG()8:00AM has now started
11:59:41 <Zakim> + +1.443.650.aaaa
11:59:47 <ivan> zakim, code?
11:59:47 <Zakim> the conference code is 2789 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan
11:59:52 <yakovsh> zakim, +1.443.650 is me
11:59:52 <Zakim> +yakovsh; got it
12:00:14 <danbri_> hi
12:00:53 <Zakim> +Ivan
12:01:27 <phila> phila has joined #csvw
12:01:52 <Zakim> + +44.207.346.aabb
12:01:56 <danbri_> zakim, aabb is danbri
12:01:56 <Zakim> +danbri; got it
12:02:31 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
12:02:37 <phila> zakim, ipcaller is me
12:02:37 <Zakim> +phila; got it
12:03:38 <danbri_> regrets: jenit
12:03:57 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
12:04:04 <AndyS> zakim, IPcaller is me
12:04:04 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
12:04:25 <danbri_> zakim, who is here?
12:04:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see yakovsh, Ivan, danbri, phila, AndyS
12:04:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see phila, danbri_, yakovsh, Zakim, RRSAgent, AndyS, ivan, fresco, gkellogg, trackbot
12:04:31 <jtandy> jtandy has joined #csvw
12:04:51 <AndyS> scribenick: AndyS
12:04:54 <danbri_> thanks!
12:05:00 <danbri_> jtandy, are you joining?
12:05:04 <AndyS> scribe: AndyS
12:05:07 <Zakim> +??P14
12:05:17 <jtandy> zakim, P14 is me
12:05:17 <Zakim> sorry, jtandy, I do not recognize a party named 'P14'
12:05:21 <danbri_> topic: Review Ivan's progress on RDF and JSON mappings
12:05:28 <jtandy> zakim, ??P14 is me
12:05:28 <Zakim> +jtandy; got it
12:06:08 <jtandy> Apologies - but I did read the minutes
12:06:09 <danbri_> see thread: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-csv-wg/2014Sep/0084.html
12:06:16 <AndyS> danbri_: what is teh status? what help do you (Ivan) want?
12:06:44 <jtandy> I agree that starting with a minimal approach is a good thing
12:06:44 <AndyS> ivan: minimal start the add things.
12:07:09 <AndyS> ... the new doc is the minimal mapping from metadata, no templating.
12:07:35 <AndyS> ... work done in the spring.  Output is RDF triples, not syntax.
12:07:44 <AndyS> ... proper way to do it for RDF.
12:08:30 <danbri_> (sorry AndyS,  typing makes ivan hard to hear!)
12:08:30 <AndyS> ... Then with minimal changes, same for JSON. Believe it is 80% JSON-LD.
12:08:45 <danbri_> JSON-LD is here, http://w3c.github.io/csvw/csv2rdf/index-json.html
12:08:47 <AndyS> zakim, unmute me
12:08:47 <Zakim> AndyS should no longer be muted
12:09:16 <AndyS> ivan: for each row, series of literal-values properties.
12:09:29 <AndyS> ... mint URI for keys.
12:09:44 <AndyS> ... metadata does not describe objects as URIs.
12:10:09 <AndyS> ... similar to "direct mapping" of RDB2RDF.
12:10:18 <danbri_> q+ to ask how much of the input metadata gets added to the output - configurable? defaults?
12:10:27 <AndyS> ... JSON same style, one row => one object
12:11:04 <AndyS> ... datatypes used from metadata.
12:11:40 <danbri_> q?
12:11:43 <danbri_> q-
12:11:59 <jtandy> q+
12:12:00 <AndyS> ... row number added to each row and some top-level DC (schema.org?) as global triples.  Pass through.
12:13:03 <AndyS> ... not handled : local template for a column (object) and ditto predicates.
12:13:22 <AndyS> ... issues in the document
12:14:05 <danbri_> q+ to propose "No mapping is defined, in the absence of column names within file or external metadata"
12:14:10 <AndyS> ... one issue ignored, can have no column names (a lot of metadata is optional).
12:14:27 <AndyS> ... more for the metadata work.
12:14:41 <danbri_> q?
12:15:46 <AndyS> ... one use of output is feed into a later xform named in metadata.
12:16:04 <AndyS> ... for JSON, unclear as to best tool to name here.
12:16:14 <AndyS> ... for XMl, XSLT (XQuery?)
12:16:41 <AndyS> ... personally, not decided as to whether this is the approach to follow.
12:16:57 <danbri_> ack jtandy
12:17:52 <AndyS> jtandy: Made sense. Will work on a real case for the F2F.
12:18:05 <AndyS> ... compound keys not covered.
12:18:25 <AndyS> ... assigning identifiers from other columns
12:18:31 <yakovsh> q+
12:18:33 <AndyS> ... URI templates
12:19:05 <AndyS> ivan: primary key of several cols is in the dc as the concat with "-"
12:19:40 <AndyS> ... if you want a specific form for row or col, assuming a template.
12:21:13 <AndyS> jtandy: if we can stick to simple URIs (??), then using URI template (RFC).
12:21:47 <danbri_> ack me
12:21:47 <Zakim> danbri_, you wanted to propose "No mapping is defined, in the absence of column names within file or external metadata"
12:21:48 <AndyS> ivan: just add issues to the doc.
12:22:13 <AndyS> danbri_: suggest - if no cols, then no mapping.
12:23:06 <jtandy> q+ to ask if there is a minimum metadata requirement ... column headings _either_ in the csv _or_ in the metadata?
12:23:15 <AndyS> ivan: suggestion is "col_1", "col_2", ...
12:23:25 <AndyS> danbri_: project tables from tables
12:23:41 <AndyS> ... needs col names to be given.
12:23:53 <danbri_> q?
12:23:58 <danbri_> ack yakovsh
12:24:01 <yakovsh> http://tc39wiki.calculist.org/es6/template-strings/
12:24:20 <AndyS> yakovsh: javascript will have a templating language built-in.
12:24:32 <AndyS> ... early next year
12:25:10 <AndyS> ivan: But for python, CSV->JSON->Python->
12:25:41 <danbri_> q?
12:25:47 <danbri_> ack jtandy
12:25:47 <Zakim> jtandy, you wanted to ask if there is a minimum metadata requirement ... column headings _either_ in the csv _or_ in the metadata?
12:26:18 <phila> q+
12:26:28 <AndyS> jtandy: Starting from min approach is fine, maybe have templating as second pass.
12:26:46 <AndyS> ... state a min as some source of column names (several choices).
12:26:56 <danbri_> ThrowUhUhException()
12:27:11 <danbri_> q?
12:27:14 <phila> ack me
12:27:52 <AndyS> phila: If 80% cover from direct of the UC, then good.
12:28:30 <AndyS> ... would it be possible to say, a preprocess step (c.f. second pass)?
12:28:52 <AndyS> ... want to see URI templating
12:29:27 <AndyS> ... should check the UC against the proposed solution.
12:29:51 <AndyS> ivan: How to spec that (processing chain) properly?
12:30:28 <danbri_> q+
12:31:42 <AndyS> danbri_: (1) processing chain - lots of different possibilities - not for us to dictate this set. We need to write it down.
12:32:03 <AndyS> ... record the chain in the metadata
12:32:26 <danbri_> q?
12:32:32 <AndyS> ... (2) ?
12:32:58 <AndyS> danbri_: Ivan, what do you us to do with this in the next 3 weeks and at F2F?
12:33:20 <AndyS> ivan: Jeremy's plan (worked UC) is very useful
12:33:41 <danbri_> rrsagent, pointer?
12:33:41 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2014/10/01-csvw-irc#T12-33-41
12:34:21 <AndyS> ... an implementation would be good.
12:34:46 <AndyS> ... not ready to do the same for XML.
12:35:41 <jtandy> q+
12:35:41 <AndyS> .. don't want to be the champion for this.  Not the only editor.  Can contribute.
12:35:47 <danbri_> ack me
12:36:03 <JeniT> JeniT has joined #csvw
12:36:20 <AndyS> ... good to check the JSON structure is JSON-LD == RDF if @context added.
12:37:04 <phila> Gregg is indeed registered for the f2f at TPAC
12:37:23 <danbri_> action: danbri take a look at json-ld assuming very naive @context file
12:37:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-31 - Take a look at json-ld assuming very naive @context file [on Dan Brickley - due 2014-10-08].
12:37:24 <AndyS> ivan: @context is complicated
12:37:37 <AndyS> ... whether it can handle things is unclear to me.
12:37:56 <danbri_> q?
12:37:56 <phila> q+
12:38:20 <AndyS> jtandy: I offer to contribute to direct mapping.
12:38:40 <phila> Erik Mannens, Axel Polleres, William Ingram
12:38:46 <danbri_> ack jtandy
12:38:58 <AndyS> phila: people at F2F above.
12:38:58 <danbri_> ack phila
12:39:18 <AndyS> ... maybe some capacity here.
12:41:47 <danbri_> q?
12:42:02 <AndyS> danbri_: anything else on Ivan's doc?
12:43:10 <AndyS> ivan: avoided @graph usage needed for a graph, not tree.
12:44:14 <ivan> { ... "rows" : [ {row1},{row2} ] }
12:46:25 <danbri_> topic: (continued) Which metadata vocabulary/ies should we be using? (DC, schema.org, ...)
12:46:48 <AndyS> danbri_: Not sure what we can do this week on this.
12:47:12 <AndyS> ... W3C has a problem with refs to non-standards orgs.
12:47:24 <AndyS> ... for mailing list and F2F.
12:47:51 <jtandy> JeniT noted that the data on the web best practice group is recommending metadata vocabs; we need to be aligned.
12:48:39 <AndyS> ivan: Still an issue because normative refs means mandatory but some people use Dublin Core.  And other vocabs.
12:49:19 <AndyS> Surely this is the point of a standard?
12:49:41 <phila> q+ to agree with everyone else and...
12:49:57 <AndyS> danbri_: avoid disruption.
12:50:33 <AndyS> ... will go to email.
12:50:40 <phila> ack me
12:50:40 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to agree with everyone else and...
12:50:41 <danbri_> q?
12:51:12 <AndyS> phila: agree and wonder whether data shapes work helps here.
12:51:21 <danbri_> (AndyS - yeah, the question is what level to standardize at... e.g. triples, use cases, specific vocabs, or [per Phil's point] specific graph patterns)
12:52:52 <AndyS> phila: DCAT? A W3C std.
12:52:53 <danbri_> http://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-dcat/
12:54:06 <danbri_> q?
12:54:40 <AndyS> danbri: how about DCAT +  owl:equivalent?
12:55:07 <AndyS> It's too rigid.
12:55:41 <danbri_> q?
12:56:04 <AndyS> topic: F2F planning
12:56:15 <AndyS> ivan: agenda needed
12:58:10 <danbri_> AndyS: issue-centric discussions often more affective
12:58:19 <danbri_> esp when non-telecon-attendees are joining
12:58:22 <jtandy> agree with AndyS to focus on specific issues ... with outcome as being "we decided X Y Z"
12:59:33 <AndyS> ADJOURNED
12:59:35 <Zakim> -phila
12:59:37 <Zakim> -danbri
12:59:37 <Zakim> -jtandy
12:59:38 <Zakim> -Ivan
12:59:40 <Zakim> -AndyS
12:59:51 <danbri_> rrsagent, please draft minutes
12:59:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/01-csvw-minutes.html danbri_
13:00:03 <Zakim> -yakovsh
13:00:04 <Zakim> DATA_CSVWG()8:00AM has ended
13:00:04 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.443.650.aaaa, yakovsh, Ivan, +44.207.346.aabb, danbri, phila, AndyS, jtandy
13:03:03 <ivan> trackbot, end telcon
13:03:03 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
13:03:05 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
13:03:11 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
13:03:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/01-csvw-minutes.html trackbot
13:03:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
13:03:12 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/01-csvw-actions.rdf :
13:03:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: danbri take a look at json-ld assuming very naive @context file [1]
13:03:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/01-csvw-irc#T12-37-23