15:27:39 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #css
15:27:39 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/10/01-css-irc
15:27:44 <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
15:27:44 <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 33 minutes
15:27:49 <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:28:16 <glazou> glazou has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Oct/0001.html
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15:51:18 <florian> florian has joined #css
15:54:00 <glazou> Zakim, code?
15:54:00 <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), glazou
15:56:06 <dael> dael has joined #css
15:56:13 <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
15:56:20 <Zakim> +??P29
15:56:35 <SimonSapin> Zakim, ??P29 is me
15:56:35 <Zakim> +SimonSapin; got it
15:56:38 <Zakim> +astearns
15:57:06 <Zakim> +dael
15:57:11 <antonp> antonp has left #css
15:57:13 <dael> ScribeNick: dael
15:57:16 <zcorpan> zcorpan has joined #css
15:57:35 <murakami> murakami has joined #css
15:57:49 <Zakim> +florian
15:58:34 <Zakim> +glazou
15:58:59 <Zakim> +??P31
15:59:04 <andreyr> andreyr has joined #css
15:59:13 <Zakim> +dauwhe
15:59:13 <murakami> zakim, ??P31 is me
15:59:13 <Zakim> +murakami; got it
15:59:41 <adenilson> adenilson has joined #css
16:00:01 <Zakim> +SGalineau
16:00:22 <alex_antennahouse> alex_antennahouse has joined #css
16:00:23 <Zakim> +??P18
16:00:36 <Zakim> + +1.631.398.aaaa
16:00:37 <adenilson> Zakim: ?P18 should be me.
16:01:02 <antonp> antonp has joined #css
16:01:04 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:01:07 <Zakim> +dbaron
16:01:16 <alex_antennahouse> I think I'm IPcaller
16:01:20 <gregwhitworth> gregwhitworth has joined #css
16:01:23 <Zakim> + +33.4.92.38.aabb - is perhaps vivien
16:01:35 <alex_antennahouse> mic turned off should be fine
16:01:41 <Zakim> +krit
16:02:05 <dael> Zakim, IPcaller is alex_antennahouse
16:02:06 <Zakim> +alex_antennahouse; got it
16:02:22 <glazou> Zakim, you’re as painful as always:)
16:02:23 <Zakim> I'm glad that smiley is there, glazou
16:02:25 <adenilson> Zakim, P18? is me.
16:02:26 <Zakim> sorry, adenilson, I do not recognize a party named 'P18?'
16:02:28 <antenna> antenna has joined #css
16:02:29 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
16:02:41 <gregwhitworth> Zakim, Microsoft is me
16:02:41 <Zakim> +gregwhitworth; got it
16:02:43 <dael> Zakim, ??P18 is adenilson
16:02:43 <Zakim> +adenilson; got it
16:02:44 <adenilson> Zakim, ??P18 is me.
16:02:44 <glazou> Zakim, ??P18 is adenilson
16:02:44 <Zakim> I already had ??P18 as adenilson, adenilson
16:02:44 <Zakim> I already had ??P18 as adenilson, glazou
16:03:02 <antonp> (I'm currently on IRC only; will join the call in a few mins)
16:03:10 <glazou> ok antonp
16:03:19 <glazou> Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:03:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see SimonSapin, astearns, dael, florian, glazou, murakami, dauwhe, SGalineau, adenilson, +1.631.398.aaaa, alex_antennahouse, dbaron, Bert, krit, gregwhitworth
16:03:28 <Rossen_> Rossen_ has joined #css
16:03:33 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
16:03:48 <Rossen_> zakim, microsoft has me
16:03:48 <Zakim> +Rossen_; got it
16:04:20 <Zakim> + +1.917.934.aacc
16:04:21 <dael> glazou: Let's start
16:04:30 <dael> glazou: Any extra items?
16:04:30 <Zakim> +fantasai
16:04:40 <Zakim> +TabAtkins
16:04:40 <dael> ??: I'd like to pub another WD of Regions
16:04:48 <mikesherov> mikesherov has joined #css
16:04:48 <dael> glazou: We can do that as the first item
16:04:54 <dael> s/??/astearns
16:04:58 <Zakim> +??P8
16:05:02 <dael> glazou: Any others?
16:05:23 <dael> Topic: Publish WD of Regions
16:05:31 <astearns> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-regions/#changes_from_Feb_18_2014
16:05:33 <zcorpan> Zakim: P8 is zcorpan
16:05:33 <florian> Zakim, who is noisy?
16:05:36 <dael> astearns: The only thing changed is the introduction. Here's the change list
16:05:44 <Zakim> florian, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: murakami (4%), astearns (74%)
16:05:51 <dael> astearns: It's been over 6 months since last pub so I'd like to go again under new process
16:05:57 <zcorpan> Zakim, ??p8 is zcorpan
16:05:57 <Zakim> +zcorpan; got it
16:06:03 <dael> Rossen_: I thought we were doing that at last F2F for multiple drafts
16:06:14 <dael> astearns: I hadn't seen that in minutes so I assumed we were out of time
16:06:17 <Bert> (Intro looks good, so I'm OK with publishing.)
16:06:29 <dael> Rossen_: In the meantime, we can ask for objections in case we didn't resolve at the F2F
16:06:35 <dael> glazou: Any objections?
16:06:47 <dael> RESOLVED: Publish new WD for Regions
16:06:55 <dael> Topic: TPAC
16:07:07 <dael> glazou: It's not far away and we haven't started colelcting items.
16:07:25 <dael> glazou: I don't think we have a wiki page even and so we need that and to collect agenda items. Anything else about tpac?
16:07:54 <dael> dauwhe: dpub does want a joint meeting with CSS. It's tricky with them being on the thursday and firday. Is that for admin list?
16:07:59 <dael> glazou: Yes, probably
16:08:10 <dael> fantasai: Question is do we want to meet with them or do we send a deligation
16:08:21 <dael> dauwhe: I propsed they'd meet us on Monday, but they want Thursday or Fri
16:08:31 <dael> glazou: So what time do they need and to discuss what?
16:08:42 <dael> dauwhe: box tree api and pagination issue. Prob an hour at least
16:08:45 <dael> glazou: Okay
16:09:02 <dael> florian: Is wed dedicated topics or can we use it for this?
16:09:11 <dael> TabAtkins_: Wednesday isn't a meeting day.
16:09:20 <dael> florian: Perhaps as a part of the un-conference.
16:09:35 <dael> dauwhe: I think for this topic there are people we'd need but not everyone. I also don't know everyone's plans.
16:09:49 <dael> fantasai: Why don't you make a list of the people you need and we can look at schedules
16:09:50 <Zakim> + +1.412.235.aadd
16:10:14 <dael> glazou: Also about TPAC, we got a message that 2015 will be last week of October is Seppo (sp?) in Japan
16:10:16 <Bert> Don't forget to register! Price goes up on Oct 8. (Most of us have, but maybe a handful hasn't: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2014/ )
16:10:26 <dael> Topic: Overwriting important style
16:10:36 <florian> s/Seppo/Sapporo/
16:10:44 <dael> Rossen_: WE collected a bunch of data and tried to look throught he results.
16:11:32 <dael> Rossen_: What we see currently...Out of almost 600 million hits we found with all kinds of important rules, few of them would match the pattern, like in 100 which suggests a tiny ratio
16:11:38 <dael> Rossen_: Of the content we could scan
16:11:54 <dael> Rossen_: I think the total number of pages was a few millions
16:12:13 <Rossen_> http://api.solvemedia.com/papi/_puzzle.js
16:12:16 <dael> Rossen_: I can send you a page that didn't meet the criteria, but we couldn't figure out the behavior, though the content suggested the pattern would occur
16:12:25 <dael> Rossen_: Inside that JS file they're over-riding
16:12:44 <dbaron> I created a stub page for https://wiki.csswg.org/planning/tpac-2014
16:13:03 <dael> Rossen_: So, given the low count of content that might be exibiting that pattern, I think we're okay to change the behavior and monitor content issues.
16:13:17 <dael> ??: As I said, Firefox has that behavior and it's okay.
16:13:24 <dael> Rossen_: I'm okay witht he behavior as proposed.
16:13:29 <dael> glazou: Any objections ot the change?
16:13:29 <florian> s/??/florian/
16:13:50 <dael> RESOLVED: Change the behavior of the property
16:13:57 <florian> s/and it's okay/and no compat issue has been reported/
16:14:14 <dael> glazou: I suggest we make some blog posts on w3.org and post on your personal blogs to make sure those few people affected know about it.
16:14:19 <dael> Topic: Empty string value <media-query> or not
16:14:26 <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Sep/0427.html
16:14:57 <dael> florian: We have the behaior change in MQ 4 which isn't intentional so I think it's okay to revet.  MW couldn't do an emply string but now can.
16:15:09 <Zakim> +antonp
16:15:14 <glazou> s/RESOLVED: Change the behavior of the property/RESOLVED: change the behaviour of setProperty() according to last week’s proposal following Rossen’s approval
16:15:23 <dael> florian: Having the MQ be the empty string used to not be okay, but the current spec suggests it evaluates as true, so we should revert
16:15:29 <Zakim> + +44.203.549.aaee
16:15:40 <plinss> zakim, aaee is me
16:15:40 <Zakim> +plinss; got it
16:15:52 <glazou> hi plinss :-)
16:15:55 <dael> TabAtkins_: I think I agree, I think I accidently put a ? in there. But you can't have a comma with nothing around it ecause that's disallowed in the grammar right now. They must be omitted
16:16:07 <dael> florian: But if they're suparating the empty string it's not amb?
16:16:17 <dael> TabAtkins_: It's not. You must omit a comma if it's not sep to things
16:16:27 <dael> florian: So the current spec if correct but is odd.
16:16:30 <dael> TabAtkins_: We should remove the ?
16:16:36 <dael> fantasai: I think it's super unclear.
16:16:48 <dael> TabAtkins_: I'm stressing we cannot have commas with nothing between
16:16:59 <dael> ???: There's no grammar for MQ, it's an algo
16:17:08 <astearns> s/???/zcorpan
16:17:10 <dael> TabAtkins_: That's right b/c it has to handle regection.
16:17:10 <fantasai> s/I think it's super unclear. /I think it's best if we are explicit rather than relying on weird implicit behavior in a spec somewhere else./
16:17:21 <fantasai> s/weird/unconventional/
16:17:32 <dael> florian: So I'd like two res. Remove the ? and make it explicit that the MQ list can be an empty list.
16:17:38 <dael> TabAtkins_: That should be def by the algo.
16:17:59 <zcorpan> http://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-4/#mq-list "An empty media query list evaluates to true."
16:18:01 <dael> florian: It's implicitly by the algo, but there's nothing that forbids you from an empty list, but it doesn't explicitly say it can be empty
16:18:10 <dael> TabAtkins_: I'm fine witha  note that it can be an empty list
16:18:21 <dael> florian: Does anyone like the behavor?
16:18:32 <dael> zcorpan: There is some behavior, but I don't mind changing that
16:18:46 <dael> florian: The place were we say how to evaluate it says you can evaluate tur
16:19:05 <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Mar/0445.html
16:19:08 <dael> RESOLVED: Allow emptry string in <media-query>
16:19:18 <dael> Topic: animation-fill-mode
16:19:28 <dael> sylvaing: Basic question is what happens when it's updated by scripts
16:19:39 <florian> s/says you can evaluate tur/says it evaluate to true, but there is no explicit mention in the section about how to parse it/
16:19:41 <dael> sylvaing: We answered part of the question when you update animation prop while it's running.
16:20:32 <dael> sylvaing: The other question was let's say you have...your animation is running through delay and you have a backwards fill and then you update your fill mode, we never really said anything about if fill mode is affected. I assume it should be but I wanted to check
16:20:52 <dbaron> I agree it should just update.
16:20:57 <dael> TabAtkins_: Yeah, that should be updated and have app. affect. You would stop backwards filling and not have an affect until the delay run out.
16:21:07 <dael> sylvaing: I couldn't think of a situation it would be awkward.
16:21:11 <dael> sylvaing: No obj?
16:21:22 <dael> RESOLVED: animation-fill-mode applies whenever it's updated
16:21:40 <dael> Topic: csson-view behavior of matchMedia
16:21:40 <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Sep/0354.html
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16:21:52 <dael> glazou: This came from the ML, it wasn't disucssed so I picked it up
16:22:12 <dael> sylvaing: Order of events is something I plan to define. It will hook into request animation frame machinery when there's something
16:22:25 <dael> sylvaing: The add frames is defined in HTML that they should have a 0,0 viewport
16:22:26 <zcorpan> "If a Document is in a nested browsing context, it is expected to be positioned and sized to fit inside the content box of its browsing context container. If a browsing context is not being rendered, it is expected to have a viewport with zero width and zero height."
16:22:38 <tantek> tantek has joined #css
16:22:39 <dael> s/sylvaing/zcorpan
16:22:39 <zcorpan> https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/rendering.html#the-page
16:23:02 <dael> TabAtkins_: Is there any other queries that matter here? I don't htink so. I think the HTML statement answers the second question
16:23:09 <Zakim> -fantasai
16:23:13 <dael> dbaron: You said you were planning to hook into request animation machinery?
16:23:25 <dael> zcorpan: Yes. That's what we want to do for recite events.
16:23:32 <Zakim> -SGalineau
16:23:46 <dael> dbaron: Something needs to account for flushing as well. If something causes a layout flush it should be able to have an outside animation fram affect.
16:23:50 <dael> zcorpan: Good point.
16:24:01 <dael> glazou: So zcorpan do you want to take an action to reply to Boris?
16:24:10 <Zakim> +SGalineau
16:24:13 <Zakim> +fantasai
16:24:19 <dael> action zcorpan to reply to Boris' e-mail
16:24:19 <trackbot> Error finding 'zcorpan'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/users>.
16:24:21 <dbaron> s/should be able to have an outside animation fram affect/could have an effect outside of requestAnimationFrame/
16:24:37 <zcorpan> action spieters to reply to Boris' e-mail
16:24:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-655 - Reply to boris' e-mail [on Simon Pieters - due 2014-10-08].
16:24:39 <gregwhitworth> lol @ tab
16:24:41 <dael> Topic: Review documents move to note of gutted note
16:24:58 <dael> glazou: Bert sent a message. Anything to say about it?
16:25:00 <Zakim> -fantasai
16:25:24 <dael> krit: One comment about the dommatrix to make it as an early version of geometry
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16:25:32 <Zakim> +fantasai
16:25:46 <dael> glazou: Anything else to say about the documents themselves or the publications?
16:25:55 <dael> TabAtkins_: I haven't fully reviewed, but expect it'll be fine.
16:26:03 <dael> glazou: These are the docs we decided to put aside.
16:26:14 <dael> glazou: That's all I have for today. Is there anything else to discuss?
16:26:28 <dael> Many: 30 more minutes is great!
16:26:29 <Zakim> -SGalineau
16:26:30 <alex_antennahouse> goodbye
16:26:30 <Zakim> -fantasai
16:26:30 <Zakim> -dbaron
16:26:32 <Zakim> -TabAtkins
16:26:32 <Zakim> - +1.917.934.aacc
16:26:32 <dael> glazou: Thank you very much!
16:26:33 <Zakim> -krit
16:26:33 <Zakim> -gregwhitworth
16:26:34 <Zakim> -zcorpan
16:26:34 <Zakim> -adenilson
16:26:35 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
16:26:35 <Zakim> -Bert
16:26:35 <Zakim> - +1.412.235.aadd
16:26:36 <Zakim> -glazou
16:26:36 <Zakim> -SimonSapin
16:26:37 <Zakim> -antonp
16:26:37 <Zakim> -plinss
16:26:37 <Zakim> -florian
16:26:39 <Zakim> -dauwhe
16:26:39 <Zakim> -astearns
16:26:40 <Zakim> -dael
16:26:41 <Zakim> -alex_antennahouse
16:26:43 <Zakim> -murakami
16:26:48 <Zakim> - +1.631.398.aaaa
16:26:50 <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
16:26:50 <Zakim> Attendees were SimonSapin, astearns, dael, florian, glazou, dauwhe, murakami, SGalineau, +1.631.398.aaaa, dbaron, +33.4.92.38.aabb, krit, alex_antennahouse, Bert, gregwhitworth,
16:26:50 <Zakim> ... adenilson, Rossen_, +1.917.934.aacc, fantasai, TabAtkins, zcorpan, +1.412.235.aadd, antonp, +44.203.549.aaee, plinss
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16:47:44 <alystair> could someone explain what just happened? o_O
16:47:49 <alystair> I'm new here
16:48:42 <SimonSapin> Hi alystair. The working group just had a telephone conference, using IRC to take minutes
16:51:48 <alystair> oh that's smart.
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16:58:23 <TabAtkins> alystair: Missed a golden opportunity to say "I'm 12 and what is this?"
17:00:02 <alystair> I've grown out of that a while ago... I rather not disturb people molding the future of the web
17:02:09 <tantek> There aren't that many parts of CSS that are molding - most of it is fairly fresh thanks to TabAtkins and others.
17:03:51 <sgalineau> if you want the smell of mold, we have snapshots
17:03:58 <alystair> hah
17:05:11 <alystair> I'm just a lowly digital nomad who was looking for who to blame this morning for inset box-shadow not showing up on image elements... then I found an OOOOLD mailing list thread and feel bad that it's not a simple fix.
17:06:53 <tantek> sgalineau: who needs snapshots when you have w3.org/TR/ ?
17:06:59 <jcraig> jcraig has joined #css
17:07:14 <tantek> or perhaps I repeat myself
17:07:35 <sgalineau> tantek: that's beyond mold. there lay the TeRmites.
17:08:02 <tantek> and RoT
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19:45:58 <astearns> dauwhe_: if you have an opinion on opt-in/out for grid line snapping, please respond to my 'one property or more?' thread
19:46:47 <dauwhe_> astearns: will do.
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