13:39:25 RRSAgent has joined #dap 13:39:25 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/18-dap-irc 13:39:27 RRSAgent, make logs world 13:39:27 Zakim has joined #dap 13:39:29 Zakim, this will be DAP 13:39:29 ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 21 minutes 13:39:30 Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference 13:39:30 Date: 18 September 2014 13:39:42 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Sep/0057.html 13:39:50 fjh has changed the topic to: dap 3279; agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Sep/0057.html 13:40:20 Chair: Frederick_Hirsch 13:40:26 Present+ Frederick_Hirsch 13:40:31 ScribeNick: fjh 13:40:45 Topic: Welcome, agenda review, scribe selection, announcements 13:50:15 Present+ Mats_Wichmann 13:50:39 lgombos has joined #dap 13:51:51 lgombos has joined #dap 13:52:51 lgombos_ has joined #dap 13:55:11 fjh: sensors are a topic of interest (thus, 6 and 7) but not sure I have enough to add today to rearrange the agenda 13:55:20 rather 7 and 8 13:58:32 anssik has joined #dap 13:59:35 UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started 13:59:43 +gmandyam 13:59:49 gmandyam has joined #dap 13:59:57 +[IPcaller] 14:00:05 zakim, ipcaller is me 14:00:05 +fjh; got it 14:00:13 Present+ Giri_Mandyam 14:00:15 +??P6 14:00:26 Zakim, ??P6 is mats 14:00:26 +mats; got it 14:00:42 +??P11 14:00:44 Zakim, ??P11 is me 14:00:44 +dom; got it 14:00:48 lgombos__ has joined #dap 14:01:11 Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux 14:01:32 zakim, who is here? 14:01:32 On the phone I see gmandyam, fjh, mats, dom 14:01:34 On IRC I see lgombos__, gmandyam, anssik, lgombos_, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, mats, dom, mounir, slightlyoff, richt, Josh_Soref___, tobie, trackbot 14:01:37 +Lisa_DeLuca 14:02:00 Present+ Lisa_DeLuca 14:02:04 lgombos has joined #dap 14:02:31 Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen 14:02:44 Reminder, TPAC registration is open (however, DAP has no plans to meet) http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/ 14:02:44 CR drafts of HTML Media Capture and Vibration API published http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Sep/0050.html 14:02:57 LisaDeLuca_IBM has joined #dap 14:02:58 scribenick: dom 14:03:07 Present+ Lisa_DeLuca 14:03:15 q+ 14:03:17 Topic: Admin updates 14:03:19 Frederick: TPAC registration is open 14:03:31 ... DAP is not meeting, but deadlines are up coming 14:04:06 ack gmandyam 14:04:10 ack gmandyam 14:04:29 giri: we'll have a Geo F2F at TPAC; we have two days scheduled but may only need one day 14:04:44 ... the generic sensor api is relevant to Geo as well 14:04:58 ... I wonder if it would make sense to use the 2nd day of the Geo F2F for this 14:05:16 Frederick: I plan to be on TPAC; not sure where I'll be exactly on that day 14:05:20 Claes has joined #dap 14:05:35 ... it makes sense to discuss this 14:05:42 ... Anssi will be there I assume 14:06:10 Giri: so I'll assume we can add that to the Geo agenda and we'll have people from DAP that can attend to share their views 14:06:29 Frederick: makes sense; I don't think we'll be in a position to make decisions there though 14:06:31 Giri: right, we'll make this an intro discussion 14:06:43 +??P9 14:06:50 ... I'll get in touch with you offline to figure this out 14:07:07 Present+ Claes_Nilsson 14:07:28 Frederick: I'd come with my DAP chair hat 14:07:32 Zakim, ??P9 is Claes 14:07:32 +Claes; got it 14:07:52 +Cathy 14:07:58 Zakim, who's noisy? 14:08:09 dom, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: fjh (9%), Claes (39%) 14:08:27 Topic: Web API for Health Care Sensors 14:08:37 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Sep/0048.html 14:08:50 Cathy has joined #dap 14:08:55 Frederick: there is interest in health-sensor oriented APIs 14:09:11 ... I believe that the right thing to do is to add a slot in the DAP charter 14:09:15 ... so that we can do the work 14:09:27 ... but I think a CG would be better positioned to do the use case / req work 14:09:40 ... I think a dedicated CG is more appropriate since the topic isn't mobile specific 14:09:47 ... and CGs can progress work more easily 14:09:58 ... I don't think anybody disagreed this is interesting work 14:10:03 q- 14:10:05 ... assuming IPR isn't an issue 14:10:06 q+ 14:10:09 ack gmandyam 14:10:48 Giri: one of the hard things is the lack of support for health-centered targeted bluetooth protocols in native platforms 14:11:05 ... I don't think we're ready to say it belongs in DAP; it depends on where bluetooth work goes in W3C 14:11:17 ... a CG seems a better path forward 14:11:54 Frederick: you're right that this touches different levels, and a WG might not be the best place 14:11:59 ... a workshop might be appropriate 14:12:00 q+ 14:12:26 suggest path is workshop, community group then standardization as appropriate 14:12:47 dom: workshop good idea, if anyone can put time into this contact me 14:12:51 ack claes 14:13:13 Claes: This could be a sub-task in the WoT group 14:13:22 q+ 14:13:31 ... has that been considered? 14:13:38 Frederick: good idea too 14:13:46 ... It really depends on what we're exactly talking about 14:13:58 ... which is hard to determine without going into the details 14:14:08 ... I was thinking a CG or a workshop could help us go there 14:14:16 ... it seems too vague at this point 14:14:27 .... there are many different aspects in what e.g. Apple is doing in this space 14:14:34 ... (secure storage, sensor access, etc) 14:14:47 ... hence why a workshop might help hash things out 14:14:57 ... Was this discussed at the WoT workshop? 14:15:08 ... I suspect this hasn't been figured out yet 14:15:22 Claes: I can agree that a workshop might be a good starting point 14:15:58 Frederick: part of the question is whether the communities of health apps overlap with the community that attended the IoT workshop 14:16:10 ack fjh 14:16:26 mats: generally, there are lots of small and big communities, hard to know which to follow 14:16:35 ... I'll go look for the things we've mentioned 14:16:52 ... in my case, we're just barging ahead inventing things that haven't seen enough light of day yet 14:17:16 ... I'm using input this forum to pitch back to my guys 14:17:28 “w3c Workshop of the Web of Things” http://www.w3.org/2014/02/wot/ 14:17:29 ... moving a bit more slowly is not necessary a bad idea 14:17:36 frederick: I think we need the focus first and foremost 14:17:44 ... we don't want to do rework as much as possible 14:17:46 q+ 14:18:23 fjh: dom what is process for proceeding with workshop 14:18:32 dom: could have breakout at TPAC 14:18:38 fjh: very good idea 14:19:13 fjh: break out sounds like a good idea; willing to help, but I'm not a subject matter expert 14:19:20 ... anyone interested in leading something there? 14:19:56 dom: maybe get it started and then find someone else to drive it? :) 14:20:05 action: fjh to set up TPAC breakout on Web API for Health Care Sensors 14:20:05 Created ACTION-718 - Set up tpac breakout on web api for health care sensors [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2014-09-25]. 14:20:36 Topic: Ambient Light 14:20:49 Frederick: lots of design discussion on the list 14:21:06 ... what does the group suggest we should do here? 14:21:37 dom: we have one firefox implementation - that triggered redesign 14:21:49 dom: took action to see if Rick could be involved in DAP 14:22:00 ACTION-716? 14:22:00 ACTION-716 -- Dominique Hazaël-Massieux to Add rwalron as invited expert to dap group -- due 2014-09-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW 14:22:00 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/716 14:22:26 dom: Rick is now member of group and is very interested in helping in moving this forward 14:22:45 dom: need to make sure he can make contributions 14:23:19 frederick: I'll follow up with hum 14:23:20 fjh: excellent 14:23:30 s/hum/him/ 14:23:34 action: fjh to follow up with rwaldron 14:23:35 Created ACTION-719 - Follow up with rwaldron [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2014-09-25]. 14:23:40 close ACTION-716 14:23:40 Closed ACTION-716. 14:23:52 zakim, who is here? 14:23:52 On the phone I see gmandyam, fjh, mats, dom, Lisa_DeLuca, Claes, Cathy 14:23:54 On IRC I see Cathy, Claes, LisaDeLuca_IBM, lgombos, gmandyam, anssik, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, mats, dom, mounir, slightlyoff, richt, Josh_Soref___, tobie, trackbot 14:24:20 Topic: minutes approval 14:24:27 Approve minutes from 4 September 2014 14:24:27 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Sep/att-0020/minutes-2014-09-04.html 14:24:28 proposed RESOLUTION: Minutes from 4 September 2014 are approved 14:24:35 RESOLUTION: Minutes from 4 September 2014 are approved 14:24:48 Topic: Vibration API 14:24:54 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Sep/0038.html (Zhiqiang) 14:25:06 Frederick: Zhiqiang updated the implementation report and made a snapshot 14:25:35 Dom: maybe run a CfC on the test suite and the implementation report? 14:26:06 action: fjh to send CfC asking if vibration test and implementation report is correct and complete 14:26:07 Created ACTION-720 - Send cfc asking if vibration test and implementation report is correct and complete [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2014-09-25]. 14:26:37 frederick: looking at the process for entrance to PR 14:26:53 to go to PR we have the following 14:26:55 must show adequate implementation experience except where an exception is approved by the Director, 14:26:55 must show that the document has received wide review, 14:26:56 must show that all issues raised during the Candidate Recommendation review period other than by Advisory Committee representatives acting in their formal AC representative role have been formally addressed, 14:26:57 must identify any substantive issues raised since the close of the Candidate Recommendation review period by parties other than Advisory Committee representatives acting in their formal AC representative role, 14:26:58 may have removed features identified in the Candidate Recommendation document as "at risk" without republishing the specification as a Candidate Recommendation. 14:28:02 frederick: seems like we're in good shape 14:28:23 Topic: HTML Media Capture 14:28:35 frederick: how do we progress this one? do we have the right report ready yet? 14:28:51 http://w3c.github.io/test-results/html-media-capture/all.html 14:29:30 dom: we have a report that shows 2 failures 14:29:38 ... need to figure out whether they're being fixed by implementors 14:30:19 do Zhiquiang or Anssi have any suggestion 14:30:42 dom: we should ask implementors what their plans are for this 14:30:46 dom: have any bug reports that indicate whether this will get fixted 14:31:00 s/fixted/fixed/ 14:31:26 (linked from https://www.w3.org/2009/dap/wiki/ImplementationStatus ) 14:31:47 Topic: Battery 14:31:57 Cordova gap analysis http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Sep/0052.html 14:32:04 Frederick: Thank you Lisa for your gap analysis on Cordova battery API 14:32:08 ... looks comprehensive 14:32:12 see https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mAcjwf39IcIqpIuS-7SzlDxTgk4OebCHae6yfOwnStE/edit?pli=1#heading=h.x7sfdyjmxgeb 14:32:18 Lisa: will definitely be more work than for Vibration 14:32:29 ... Cordova is pretty far off from the DAP API 14:32:37 ... it looks like the battery spec is based on Promises 14:32:57 it is supported in ios9 14:33:00 s/9/8/ 14:33:16 q+ 14:33:24 ack dom 14:33:29 ack gmandyam 14:33:36 ... not sure that promises are supported in older iOS WebViews 14:33:43 dom: it wasn't indeed 14:33:55 ... but I think that they can polyfilled reasonably simply 14:34:00 s/can/can be/ 14:34:16 Giri: Media Capture didn't go with promises as they could be polyfilled via libraries 14:34:54 q- 14:35:53 Lisa: the older versions of webkit views in iOS don't support Promises, so we'll need a workaround 14:36:10 Giri: I guess it sounds like the work around isn't too hard to establish 14:36:51 jQuery promise API: http://api.jquery.com/promise/ 14:36:52 dom: look for promises polyfill 14:36:54 Lisa: I'll go back to the Cordova team with that approach 14:37:04 Dom: note that jQuery promises aren't compatible with Ecmascript one 14:37:05 dom: JQuery promises might not be compatibile with the standards 14:37:12 Lisa: I've identified 14 points for alignment 14:37:18 ... assume this is OK with everyone 14:37:27 ... will submit this as issues 14:37:41 anssik: were you able to review the cordova battery alignment document 14:37:46 My point was that I don't understand why Cordova requires native promise support to implement for battery API. Frameworks like jQuery don't rely on it. 14:37:56 fs/anssik:/anssik,/ 14:38:01 dom: I've looked at the document and it looked good to me 14:38:12 ... seems like more work indeed this time around; let us know if we can help! 14:38:33 fjh: no I haven't reviewed it 14:38:43 lisa: will go ahead with next steps 14:39:33 Frederick: we also have a CfC on the resolution to Tobie's LC comment 14:39:36 CfC for LC-2965, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Sep/0054.html 14:39:42 ... Tobie agreed this was reasonable 14:39:50 Lisa next steps: Opening 14 JIRA issues in Cordova tracking system. Cordova committers will then assign issues to themselves and move forward with implementation. If issues arise with concerns about promises I will get back to the DAP team. 14:39:56 Topic: Network Service Discovery 14:39:58 Status and questions http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Sep/0018.html 14:40:16 Frederick: some discussion on the list following Rich's status report 14:40:35 ... some support for high and low level 14:41:11 Claes: I don't have a very strong opinion 14:41:33 ... doesn't seem to be much implementors interest 14:41:46 ... hence why I was mentioning the high level presentation API as an alternative 14:42:08 ... is there really use for the low level API, or will the other approaches dominate the solution space 14:42:26 frederick: the question is how to find the right level of layering 14:42:36 ... I have concerns with complexity and testability of the low level interactions 14:42:45 ... it feels maybe premature 14:42:57 ... I'm trying to figure a sensible way forward 14:43:46 ... let's continue the discussion on the list; I'll try to drive responses to the questions 14:45:54 zakim, who is here? 14:45:54 On the phone I see gmandyam, fjh, mats, dom, Lisa_DeLuca, Claes, Cathy 14:45:56 On IRC I see Cathy, Claes, LisaDeLuca_IBM, lgombos, anssik, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, mats, dom, mounir, slightlyoff, richt, Josh_Soref___, tobie, trackbot 14:45:58 Topic: Media Capture CfC http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Sep/0061.html 14:46:12 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Sep/0061.html 14:46:23 This CfC ends next week, Friday, 26 Sept 2014. 14:47:04 Topic: Action Review 14:47:12 ACTION-712? 14:47:12 ACTION-712 -- Dominique Hazaël-Massieux to Look into chartering extensibility -- due 2014-09-18 -- OPEN 14:47:12 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/712 14:47:42 ACTION-714? 14:47:43 ACTION-714 -- Zhiqiang Zhang to Update implmentation report to clarify explicitly which tests are for desktop or mobile -- due 2014-09-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW 14:47:43 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/714 14:47:48 close ACTION-714 14:47:48 Closed ACTION-714. 14:47:52 ACTION-715? 14:47:52 ACTION-715 -- Frederick Hirsch to Send cfc to close lc-2965 with proposal to continue existing battery api with v.next if needed -- due 2014-09-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW 14:47:52 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/715 14:48:00 close ACTION-715 14:48:00 Closed ACTION-715. 14:48:06 ACTION-717? 14:48:06 ACTION-717 -- Frederick Hirsch to Note on webapps list that this is alreadyin dap charter, so could be done in dap if needed, permissions api -- due 2014-09-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW 14:48:06 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/717 14:48:11 close ACTION-717 14:48:11 Closed ACTION-717. 14:48:24 -dom 14:48:35 -gmandyam 14:48:41 Topic: Other Business 14:48:42 none 14:48:43 Next meeting 2 October, http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/minutes.html#upcoming-teleconferences 14:48:51 -Claes 14:48:53 -Cathy 14:48:58 -Lisa_DeLuca 14:48:59 -mats 14:49:15 thanks much for scribing Dom 14:49:15 Topic: Adjourn 14:49:30 Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen(IRC) 14:49:38 rrsagent, generate minutes 14:49:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/18-dap-minutes.html fjh 14:49:44 -fjh 14:49:45 UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended 14:49:45 Attendees were gmandyam, fjh, mats, dom, Lisa_DeLuca, Claes, Cathy 14:50:28 Present- Anssi_Kostiainen 14:50:34 Present+ Cathy_Chan 14:51:27 s/Frederick:/fjh:/g 14:51:45 rrsagent, generate minutes 14:51:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/18-dap-minutes.html fjh