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11:04:58 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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11:05:00 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be CSVW
11:05:00 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see DATA_CSVWG()8:00AM scheduled to start in 55 minutes
11:05:01 <trackbot> Meeting: CSV on the Web Working Group Teleconference
11:05:01 <trackbot> Date: 17 September 2014
11:05:23 <ivan> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/csvw/wiki/Meeting_Agenda_2014-09-17
11:05:31 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/csvw/wiki/Meeting_Agenda_2014-09-17
11:05:41 <ivan> Chair: Jeni
11:05:46 <ivan> Scribe: DanBri
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11:59:05 <Zakim> + +1.718.331.aaaa
11:59:17 <yakovsh> zakim, +1.718.331.aaaa is me
11:59:17 <Zakim> +yakovsh; got it
11:59:45 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-aix
11:59:45 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
11:59:46 <Zakim> +Ivan
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12:00:59 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
12:01:05 <phila> zakim, ipcaller is me
12:01:05 <Zakim> +phila; got it
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12:02:46 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
12:03:15 <Zakim> +??P13
12:03:33 <ivan> zakim, ??P13 is jtandy
12:03:33 <Zakim> +jtandy; got it
12:04:40 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
12:04:50 <stasinos> zakim, IPCaller is me
12:04:50 <Zakim> +stasinos; got it
12:04:57 <stasinos> zakim, mute me
12:04:57 <Zakim> stasinos should now be muted
12:06:51 <phila> scribe: phila
12:06:52 <phila> chair: Jeni
12:07:00 <phila> Topic: Analysis of use cases
12:07:02 <Zakim> + +1.757.277.aabb
12:07:15 <phila> jtandy: I just sent a spreadsheet of use cases
12:07:19 <JeniT> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-csv-wg/2014Sep/0068.html
12:07:33 <ivan> zakim, aabb is bill_ingram
12:07:33 <Zakim> +bill_ingram; got it
12:08:03 <phila> jtandy: Having been through the use cases... haven't had time to go through the wiki
12:08:15 <phila> ... I have one, as does Dan and Ivan
12:08:27 <phila> ... they've been useful to inform our conversations recently
12:08:59 <phila> ... We have less than half (9) that specifically talk about transforming from CSV to X
12:09:35 <phila> ... not a big number. There are 2 or 3 others that aren't explicit in the demand for transformation but recognise the need for something like this
12:09:54 <phila> ... like the GeoJSON one
12:10:01 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
12:10:05 <phila> ... so we have 12 UCs that need to transform CSV to somethign else. Just under half
12:10:18 <phila> jtandy: I asked myself a bunch of questions
12:10:30 <phila> ... do we have a target output in the use case? Usually no, most don't
12:10:37 <phila> ... which makes our assessment more difficult
12:10:39 <AndyS> zakim, IPcaller is me
12:10:39 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
12:10:54 <phila> jtandy: Are column names mapped to properties/QNames?
12:11:24 <phila> tjandy: There are examples of mapping to properties, geonames etc
12:11:30 <phila> ... are there variables in the cells
12:11:45 <phila> ... trying to pick out hte use cases where there is a sub structure in a cell that we need to pull out
12:11:55 <danbri_> danbri_ has joined #csvw
12:12:12 <danbri_> so sorry late (esp. as I volunteered scribe), trapped in transit
12:12:26 <phila> ... there are very few examples of that. Such would increase the complexity of our templating question. I think we have 4 UCs with sub structure in a cell and others with a delimited list in a cell
12:12:53 <phila> jtandy: Most use cases don't include nesting, intermediate properties etc
12:13:18 <Zakim> + +44.207.346.aacc
12:13:21 <danbri_> zakim, ??aacc is danbri
12:13:21 <Zakim> sorry, danbri_, I do not recognize a party named '??aacc'
12:13:23 <phila> ... UC 4, for example, the target RDF/XML here picks up the object (such as a profession).
12:13:26 <danbri_> zakim, aacc is danbri
12:13:26 <Zakim> +danbri; got it
12:14:06 <phila> jtandy: In a CSV file you could just link to the cell. Need to think about cases where we're converting sets of files - how you want to aggregate those into a single target output or not
12:14:19 <phila> ... that prob isn't a templating Q itself but it is a question
12:14:41 <phila> ... analysing scientific spreadsheets. No complex structure, but there is a need to express units of measurements assigned to each cell.
12:15:12 <phila> ... That might be done at metadata level (or Data Cube). So I think we can avoid that
12:15:33 <phila> jtandy: Multiple tables in a single file prob don't meet our criteria of what is a CSV file. Fair?
12:15:36 <phila> All: yes
12:15:43 <danbri_> phila, I can take over
12:15:45 <phila> s/All:/All - /
12:15:51 <danbri_> usecase 21, biodiversity... is there complex structure in the output?
12:15:56 <danbri_> i've concluded not entirely
12:16:04 <danbri_> default pairs ...
12:16:09 <ivan> scribenick: danbri_
12:16:17 <danbri_> usecase 23, introduces idea of multiple columns all having the same semantic property
12:16:30 <danbri_> but the idea is that if you had up to 3 geo area codes, ... you could have one in each column
12:16:38 <danbri_> repeated values
12:16:46 <danbri_> usecase 24, hierarchy w/ occupational listings
12:16:52 <danbri_> does require a complex structure to be created
12:17:08 <danbri_> skos broader relationships that are derrived from occupational listing codes, ... transitive
12:17:18 <danbri_> could be generated via sparql construct afterwards
12:17:22 <danbri_> i.e. there are some workarounds
12:17:30 <danbri_> the only one needing conditional processing is occ. listings
12:17:33 <danbri_> conditional rules or flow control
12:17:54 <danbri_> jtandy: there are very few examples, none amongst use cases, where we need to manipulate value of strings to build target output
12:18:01 <danbri_> the only place i've come across doing this kind of thing before
12:18:06 <danbri_> could be hidden in usecadses
12:18:18 <danbri_> is generation of certain URI structures based on literal text input
12:18:31 <danbri_> e.g. generating URI-bsaed identifiers for the object that a row talks about
12:18:51 <danbri_> jtandy: as a quick overview, about half talking about transforms into other formats. But v few of those are complicated.
12:18:55 <danbri_> jeni: thanks, that's really useful!
12:19:08 <danbri_> very few that require even string processing as values to get stuff out
12:19:17 <danbri_> very few require text output restructuring(?)
12:19:37 <danbri_> ... i.e. "we need to be express this tabular structure" not "we need to convert it into this other structure"
12:19:40 <JeniT> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-csv-wg/2014Sep/0036.html
12:19:46 <danbri_> jenit: see also this small piece of work documenting usecases
12:19:53 <danbri_> when people want to be doing a transformation
12:20:02 <danbri_> i called out 3 possibilities here
12:20:11 <danbri_> 2 are re use created configurations
12:20:16 <danbri_> e.g. downloading 2nd csv file
12:20:21 <danbri_> ("weird echo")
12:20:33 <danbri_> cavernous sounds
12:21:11 <danbri_> 1st ex was downloading set of csv files, wanting to import that into an sql db or similar
12:21:27 <danbri_> ... in such case, the person acquiring the CSVs will typically know the table structure they want to create
12:21:35 <danbri_> for the partiicular data import tool
12:21:50 <danbri_> 2nd example, someone creating a web app displaying data from a CSV on say a map
12:22:08 <danbri_> and for that then if the people who are publishing a metadata file, ... defining a conversion into geojson
12:22:14 <danbri_> they can use that conversion for that particular display
12:22:24 <danbri_> but you can easily imagine someone wanting a different json target
12:22:27 <danbri_> e.g. a graph etc
12:22:43 <danbri_> 3rd example, someone using serverside software to statically generate a website
12:22:55 <danbri_> like http://jekyllrb.com/
12:23:11 <danbri_> e.g. if its contact info, they might generate vcard, schema.org JSON, produce some html with embedded metadata
12:23:25 <danbri_> those were the examples that I thought of
12:23:28 <danbri_> diff characteristics
12:23:50 <danbri_> in particular what came through to me, it's quite rare, quite tool specific, ... may be person specific
12:24:05 <danbri_> the appropriate conversion might depend on the kind of output you're actually aiming for
12:24:12 <jtandy> q+
12:24:22 <JeniT> ack jtandy
12:24:31 <danbri_> (danbri: e.g. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11088303/how-to-convert-to-d3s-json-format for D3 is common)
12:24:45 <danbri_> jtandy: the times i've wanted more complex output is ironically when we're trying to match community/standard models
12:24:53 <danbri_> in trying to get to a common way of expressing data, it gets more complex
12:25:10 <danbri_> e.g. if I wanted to use QUDT, or semantic sensor networks, ...
12:25:45 <danbri_> geojson - complexity usually is pulling out the geometry
12:25:58 <danbri_> others like vcard largely easy end of scale
12:26:03 <danbri_> rather than deeply complicated data
12:26:14 <phila> q+
12:26:16 <danbri_> jenit: more comments?
12:26:18 <JeniT> ack phila
12:26:29 <AndyS> q+ to mention URIi templates.
12:26:32 <danbri_> phila: following up jtandy, ... re use of string functions for URI generation
12:26:45 <JeniT> escaping?
12:26:46 <danbri_> I had experience of trying to do that, ... basic string function of removing white space, case normalization, ...
12:26:53 <danbri_> but that's as complex as it got
12:27:15 <danbri_> phila: was simple excel spreadsheet, using awk
12:27:20 <danbri_> so turning string name of a ministry into a URI
12:27:24 <danbri_> pretty basic stuff
12:27:34 <danbri_> case normalize, and get rid of whitespace
12:28:03 <JeniT> ack AndyS
12:28:03 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to mention URIi templates.
12:28:09 <danbri_> AndyS: similar to what Phil says
12:28:12 <danbri_> We use a lot of URI templates
12:28:16 <danbri_> multiple fields into one URI
12:28:20 <danbri_> sector, area, ID all go in.
12:28:32 <danbri_> certain amount of cleaning, string manipulation, whitespace, chars we don't want, ...
12:28:42 <danbri_> beyond this, issue of validation
12:28:51 <danbri_> what to do when the data doesn't match what you need
12:29:05 <danbri_> although it's possible to handle it when it comes out the other end, ... feels wrong
12:29:09 <danbri_> but not clear cut
12:29:20 <danbri_> a desire to know when there's an issue and flag an error
12:29:33 <danbri_> jenit: we def want to be able to support validation against metadata file
12:29:54 <phila> q+ to talk about validation
12:30:15 <JeniT> ack phila
12:30:15 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to talk about validation
12:30:20 <ivan> ack phila
12:30:30 <danbri_> phila: we're close to launching a WG on RDF validation
12:30:41 <danbri_> (danbri: aka 'data shapes' I think)
12:30:59 <danbri_> phila: although this is rdf only, the two are closely related. there's a danger both groups try to punt it to the other
12:31:31 <danbri_> ... other wg if its creation goes ahead as (nonbindingly) anticipated, ... could maybe be useful
12:31:42 <danbri_> jenit: downstream validation has the issues that andys identified
12:31:45 <ivan> q+
12:31:47 <danbri_> any more re requirements?
12:31:50 <ivan> q-
12:32:07 <danbri_> jenit: next- a straw poll, helping us to see where we're at w.r.t. question
12:32:08 <JeniT> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-csv-wg/2014Sep/0067.html
12:32:18 <danbri_> re transformation, templating
12:32:23 <danbri_> 4 basic options (see mail)
12:32:33 <danbri_> a) providing no customisation of mappings to other formats
12:32:38 <danbri_> leaving it completely unspecified
12:32:45 <danbri_> I thought you said 'a' :)
12:32:48 <danbri_> <- 1.
12:33:02 <danbri_> 2. Providing some kind of hooks for customised mappings
12:33:10 <danbri_> but nothing normative for what's used
12:33:26 <danbri_> 3. Adopting an existing templating language, such as but not necessarily Mustache
12:33:40 <danbri_> providing a way to map data in csv into the variables used by that existing templating language
12:33:48 <danbri_> 4. Going into specifying our own tempating language.
12:34:12 <danbri_> (is this multiple choice? I like 2. + 3.)
12:34:25 <AndyS> Epimorphics --> https://github.com/epimorphics/dclib
12:34:28 <danbri_> choose one as preferred direction
12:34:39 <jtandy> q+
12:35:32 <danbri_> danbri: I prefer (3. with Mustache as starting point) ...with (2. to allow others), and a hint of (4.) in that Mustache could be stretched a bit, and called Mustache-inspired.
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12:35:53 <danbri_> jenit: Ivan, you're suggesting an investigatory period?
12:36:03 <danbri_> ivan: at least ... this is the way we interpret however we choose
12:36:49 <danbri_> Jeni: straw poll on your preference for what we do next, with the assumption that if we investigate templating lang and if it's too difficult we revise our opinion (at end of year)
12:36:56 <JeniT> ack jtandy
12:37:31 <danbri_> jtandy: as i've been thinking about how we might call out to other tmplating langs, e.g. xslt, sparql constructs, other things that can do our processing, ... it wasn't clear to me how / what mechanism we might have in place to provide those hooks out for external formats
12:37:31 <ivan> q+
12:37:35 <danbri_> which is what 2. is talking about
12:37:38 <AndyS> q+
12:37:46 <danbri_> can someone give a 2 minute education on (2.)?
12:38:13 <danbri_> jenit: within metadata file there is a property called mappings which has objects that give a title, a format, a ref to a template thing
12:38:37 <danbri_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RDDL
12:38:43 <danbri_> 3. is more like GRDDL
12:38:56 <danbri_> jtandy: how do you get the object to the template lang?
12:39:02 <danbri_> jeni: that would be implementation defined
12:39:09 <danbri_> whereas 3. we'd define exactly what that would look like
12:39:12 <danbri_> for a given language.
12:39:16 <JeniT> ack ivan
12:39:26 <danbri_> ivan: to come back to your option 2
12:39:37 <danbri_> ... and actually even 3
12:39:43 <danbri_> do we define some sort of a simple fallback mapping
12:39:48 <danbri_> or we don't do anything whatsoever
12:39:57 <danbri_> e.g. if i want a json out of the csv file
12:40:00 <JeniT> “In all cases, we need to specify a default mapping to RDF/XML/JSON that is purely based on the metadata (which is also used to inform validation and display of the CSV files).”
12:40:03 <danbri_> but i do not refer to any external tool
12:40:08 <danbri_> does that mean i get nothing whatsoever?
12:40:18 <danbri_> or we have  straightfwd way to extract csv in json
12:40:24 <danbri_> jeni: see above from email
12:40:59 <AndyS> q-
12:41:00 <danbri_> (aside: just remembered http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-results-json/ as a json table format)
12:41:04 <danbri_> q?
12:41:09 <stasinos> q+
12:41:14 <JeniT> ack stasinos
12:42:00 <danbri_> jenit: ... freedom and configurability vs sensible defaults
12:42:03 <AndyS> 1/2/3 are the same to us ... does not create a (sufficiently big) tool economy.
12:42:07 <danbri_> s/jenit/stasinos/
12:42:30 <danbri_> stasinos: can we stipulate that it should be the case that it should be ok for all producers and should be used, but needn't be a MUST
12:42:35 <danbri_> you could choose to use something else
12:42:38 <AndyS> q+
12:43:23 <jtandy_> q+
12:43:25 <danbri_> jenit: you'd want extensibility option, ... something with an understood level of conformance on the use of a particular templating language to get to do the conversion.
12:43:27 <JeniT> ack AndyS
12:43:30 <stasinos> zakim, mute me
12:43:30 <Zakim> stasinos should now be muted
12:43:56 <danbri_> andys: need uri mapping
12:44:22 <danbri_> andys: i'm answering from pov of people with requirements on transforming csv to rdf
12:44:34 <danbri_> making URIs for some scheme is a v important requirement for that
12:44:46 <danbri_> jenit: I think you could provide templates within emtadata file
12:44:53 <danbri_> don't need a full tempating system for that
12:45:01 <danbri_> andys: quite possible. but the requirement remains.
12:45:15 <JeniT> ack jtandy
12:45:21 <JeniT> ack jtandy_
12:45:38 <danbri_> jtandy: (4.) a simple templating language. Is an example of that the restrictions that dan explained to us re Polymer
12:46:11 <danbri_> (discussion of polymer vs mustache)
12:46:20 <danbri_> andys: mustache lets you set things up before calling templates
12:46:22 <JeniT> q?
12:46:28 <danbri_> ... so has equiv of polymer but done in a diff way
12:46:33 <jtandy_> 4
12:46:38 <yakovsh> 2
12:46:38 <danbri_> initial straw poll. TYPE INTO IRC NOW
12:46:39 <JeniT> 2
12:46:47 <AndyS> 4
12:46:48 <ivan> 2
12:46:49 <danbri_> 3
12:46:57 <bill_ingram> 2
12:47:06 <stasinos> 3
12:47:18 <stasinos> (BUT 2 MAY 2)
12:47:34 <danbri_> chairs shared their technical opinion
12:48:23 <jtandy_> phila says that (4) looks complete - but dont make it super complex
12:48:28 <Zakim> -jtandy
12:48:52 <danbri_> phila: ultimately what I care about is that the wg has capcity to deliver
12:49:05 <Zakim> +??P13
12:49:07 <danbri_> I keep meeting people who are really looking fwd to the results of this group but don't have time to help.
12:49:21 <ivan> zakim, ??P13 is jtandy_
12:49:21 <Zakim> +jtandy_; got it
12:49:21 <jtandy_> zakim, ??P13 is me
12:49:22 <Zakim> I already had ??P13 as jtandy_, jtandy_
12:49:35 <danbri_> andys: i'd like to reinforce what phil said. the classic opensource issue here is that "someone else will do it".
12:49:53 <danbri_> if you're getting that kind of interest from outside, then it is time for the group to start broadcasting outward what the real factors are
12:50:03 <danbri_> e.g. start setting expectations
12:50:11 <danbri_> if the expectations exceed what the group's delivered
12:50:21 <danbri_> otherwise great work may go unappreciated
12:51:02 <danbri_> jenit: two have argued for specifying a templating lang; several who said hook and impl defined
12:51:07 <danbri_> 2 said existing tpl lang
12:52:02 <danbri_> jtandy: my issue with 2 is that there is a big gap between how we take it out of parser, and into relevant templating lang, ...
12:52:05 <danbri_> [choppy noises]
12:52:11 <danbri_> jtandy - can you type
12:52:21 <danbri_> jtandy: re 3., mustache etc, those things may change
12:52:26 <danbri_> q+ to speak for 3.5
12:52:37 <danbri_> ... change control etc
12:52:41 <danbri_> which leaves us with 4.
12:52:43 <phila> +1 to opposing 3 for the reasons Jeremy gives
12:52:44 <ivan> q+
12:52:45 <danbri_> ... doing a bit of work
12:52:47 <JeniT> ack danbri_
12:52:47 <Zakim> danbri_, you wanted to speak for 3.5
12:53:13 <jtandy_> danbri says (4) only if we start from mustache
12:53:15 <JeniT> ack ivan
12:53:18 <stasinos> q+
12:53:38 <danbri_> ivan: i voted 4 as i've played with that, i had this proposal, a stripped down mustache, which might be good enough
12:53:48 <AndyS> q+
12:53:57 <danbri_> what really made me change, and i didn't sync w/ phil, ... experience is that we don't have enough ppeople to properly do that, even that level that I did
12:54:18 <danbri_> ... a bigger group w/ more people, I believe 4 is doable
12:54:27 <danbri_> could be pretty small
12:54:34 <danbri_> I essentially did something that I believe covers most of the use cases
12:54:42 <JeniT> q?
12:54:45 <JeniT> ack stasinos
12:55:11 <danbri_> stasinos: I was thinking, if it's to be something that is simpler than an existing lang, then it kind of begs the question why to bother to
12:55:24 <danbri_> ... vs refer to a specific github etc version
12:55:37 <ivan> q+
12:55:49 <danbri_> (aside: see http://www.w3.org/2013/09/normative-references )
12:55:56 <JeniT> ack AndyS
12:56:00 <danbri_> stasinos: but for our own i don't think we're in position to complete it
12:56:03 <stasinos> zakim, mute me
12:56:03 <Zakim> stasinos should now be muted
12:56:13 <danbri_> AndyS: you asked why I voted for (4.), looking at other specs that feel close, in w3c space
12:56:22 <danbri_> if you look at something like GRDDL, it isn't a stunning success
12:56:33 <JeniT> GRDDL used XSLT right?
12:56:37 <danbri_> it's a real shame there isn't a full blown rdf rules language
12:56:40 <ivan> yes Jenni
12:56:41 <danbri_> (RIF isn't?)
12:56:49 <danbri_> (for some sense of 'blown')
12:57:00 <phila> IIRC GRDDL strongly suggests but doesn't require XSLT
12:57:01 <danbri_> ...R2RML gets some traction but not sure if will be a roaring success
12:57:15 <danbri_> andys: SPARQL amazingly overshot, but back then WGs could do that
12:57:18 <danbri_> features did creep in
12:57:25 <danbri_> reason was that there were things ppl wanted to do
12:57:29 <danbri_> there was resistence on putting things in
12:57:38 <danbri_> being driven by user needs made it hard
12:57:55 <danbri_> one poss is to say 'if that's the way we want to go, separate it out somewhere, send it out to be a CG'
12:58:02 <jtandy_> q+
12:58:05 <danbri_> a small group could work on it in a diff way, come up with a particular proposal
12:58:06 <JeniT> ack ivan
12:58:10 <JeniT> q?
12:58:34 <danbri_> ivan: mustache is a v good example for the difficulties we might have
12:58:46 <danbri_> i initially used a mustache impl, csv files have their own features
12:58:51 <danbri_> mustache is text to text
12:59:30 <danbri_> ivan: ... we choose one tpml lang ... don't think that is practically doable
12:59:43 <danbri_> andys: what if we start from an existing one, then kinda fix it? make it 'the w3c one'?
12:59:46 <danbri_> I'd like that
12:59:51 <danbri_> jenit: I think that is a good approach
12:59:56 <danbri_> ivan: that means cutting back a bunch of things
13:00:18 <Zakim> -danbri
13:00:31 <phila> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:00:34 <jtandy_> can we
13:00:36 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
13:00:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/17-csvw-minutes.html phila
13:00:52 <danbri_> phila: e.g. i wanted geojson but the community who created it weren't so interested (was that right? --scribe)
13:01:01 <jtandy_> oops. can we specify a minimum set of requirements for the template lang? driven by our use cases
13:01:09 <phila> Something like that, yes - but it's nuanced
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13:01:14 <Zakim> -jtandy_
13:01:18 <Zakim> -AndyS
13:01:20 <Zakim> -JeniT
13:01:20 <Zakim> -phila
13:01:21 <Zakim> -bill_ingram
13:01:23 <Zakim> -stasinos
13:01:24 <Zakim> -Ivan
13:01:27 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:01:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/17-csvw-minutes.html ivan
13:01:51 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
13:01:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see yakovsh
13:01:52 <Zakim> On IRC I see jtandy_, danbri_, jtandy, phila, JeniT, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, fresco, trackbot
13:02:37 <Zakim> -yakovsh
13:02:38 <Zakim> DATA_CSVWG()8:00AM has ended
13:02:38 <Zakim> Attendees were yakovsh, Ivan, phila, JeniT, jtandy, stasinos, +1.757.277.aabb, bill_ingram, AndyS, +44.207.346.aacc, danbri, jtandy_
13:03:41 <ivan> trackbot, end telcon
13:03:41 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
13:03:42 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
13:03:49 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
13:03:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/17-csvw-minutes.html trackbot
13:03:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
13:03:50 <RRSAgent> I see no action items