14:33:50 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y
14:33:50 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/11-mobile-a11y-irc
14:33:52 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:33:52 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #mobile-a11y
14:33:54 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF
14:33:54 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_MATF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 27 minutes
14:33:55 <trackbot> Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:33:55 <trackbot> Date: 11 September 2014
14:34:12 <KimPatch>   chair: Kimberly_Patch
14:38:47 <KimPatch> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2014Sep/0003.html
14:40:21 <KimPatch> Agenda+ Q&A
14:40:23 <KimPatch> Agenda+ Format of the updates
14:40:24 <KimPatch> Agenda+ Technique assignments / status
14:40:26 <KimPatch> Agenda+ Survey from last week #5:  https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140901_survey/results#xq5
14:40:27 <KimPatch> Agenda+ New Survey:  please fill out before the call on Thursday:  https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140908_survey/
14:40:29 <KimPatch> Agenda+ Next Steps – the next meeting will be Thursday, September 18 at 11 AM Eastern
14:45:19 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #mobile-a11y
14:45:51 <jeanne> zakim, ping jeanne in 5 minutes
14:45:51 <Zakim> I don't understand 'ping jeanne in 5 minutes', jeanne
14:46:01 <jeanne> zakim, ping me in 5 minutes
14:46:01 <Zakim> ok, jeanne
14:50:52 <Zakim> WAI_MATF()11:00AM has now started
14:51:00 <Zakim> +Jeanne
14:51:02 <Zakim> jeanne, you asked to be pinged at this time
14:51:39 <Zakim> +Kim_Patch
14:55:40 <Kenny> Kenny has joined #mobile-a11y
14:55:59 <Detlev> Detlev has joined #mobile-a11y
14:59:38 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #mobile-a11y
14:59:57 <Zakim> +Detlev
14:59:58 <Zakim> +jon_avila
15:00:37 <Jan> Jan has joined #mobile-a11y
15:00:46 <Jan> zakim, code?
15:00:46 <Zakim> the conference code is 6283 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan
15:01:55 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:02:02 <Zakim> +Brent_Shiver
15:02:10 <Brent> Brent has joined #mobile-a11y
15:02:12 <Jan> zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan
15:02:12 <Zakim> +Jan; got it
15:02:53 <KimPatch> scribe: detlev
15:02:58 <Detlev> scribe: Detlev
15:03:17 <Zakim> + +1.408.425.aaaa
15:03:53 <Jan> zakim, aaaa is really Mike
15:03:53 <jeanne> zakim, aaaa is Mike
15:03:54 <Zakim> +Mike; got it
15:03:54 <Zakim> sorry, jeanne, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
15:04:12 <KimPatch> take up next
15:04:22 <KimPatch> zakim, next item
15:04:22 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Q&A" taken up [from KimPatch]
15:05:01 <jon_avila> q+
15:05:03 <jon_avila> q?
15:05:07 <jon_avila> q-
15:05:09 <Detlev> Kim: Any questions about techniques?
15:05:43 <Kenny> zakim, call kenny-mobile
15:05:43 <Zakim> ok, Kenny; the call is being made
15:05:45 <Zakim> +Kenny
15:06:13 <Detlev> Jon: Wasn't on WCAG call, looking at survey results - sentiment was that current techniques should reflect mobile space rather than add to it
15:07:05 <Detlev> Kim: Kathy reported that the advice was that instead of adding examples was less valuable than changing examples to reflect mobile
15:07:19 <jeanne> q+ to introduce Kenny when this discussion is complete
15:07:39 <Detlev> Jon: does not quite agree - in some cases (say keyboard) more examples are helpful
15:08:35 <Detlev> Kim: will depend on the case -sometimes including, in other cases adding - will become cleare as we go forward
15:10:17 <jon_avila> q?
15:10:25 <Detlev> Mike: Agrees that W3C direction seems a bit odd (?) - examples should not be artificial but we have to inclue new things like gestural input
15:11:51 <jeanne> s/that W3C direction/that WCAG direction
15:12:28 <Detlev> Jon: It sounded some people were concerned that we were promoting techniques when giving mobile examples - but people will also benefit from mobile examples
15:13:18 <Shebanek> Shebanek has joined #mobile-a11y
15:14:35 <jeanne> q+
15:15:21 <Detlev> Detlev: mentioning the quesation whether we will need other categories with WCAG (e.g for touch) and how that might affet the placement of new techniques
15:16:04 <Detlev> Jeanne: has been discussed but no solution yet - At the moment new techniques will be placed under aprinciple or guideline
15:16:45 <Detlev> Jeanne introducing Kenny  (China), works for WAI - we are trying to get more participation from China and the far east generally
15:17:27 <Detlev> Kenny: I'm based in Bejing, working on WCAG authorized translation
15:18:02 <Detlev> Zakim, next topic
15:18:02 <Zakim> I don't understand 'next topic', Detlev
15:18:11 <Detlev> Zakim, next item
15:18:11 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Detlev
15:18:17 <jeanne> ack jeann
15:18:17 <Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to introduce Kenny when this discussion is complete and to
15:18:25 <Detlev> Zakim, next item
15:18:25 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Format of the updates" taken up [from KimPatch]
15:18:34 <Detlev> Zakim, next item
15:18:34 <Zakim> agendum 2 was just opened, Detlev
15:18:47 <jeanne> zakim, close item 2
15:18:47 <Zakim> agendum 2, Format of the updates, closed
15:18:49 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:18:49 <Zakim> 3. Technique assignments / status [from KimPatch]
15:18:55 <KimPatch> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140901_survey/results
15:18:58 <jeanne> zakim, next item
15:18:58 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Technique assignments / status" taken up [from KimPatch]
15:20:11 <Zakim> -Detlev
15:20:34 <Detlev> MikeS: sorry I'm disconnected!
15:20:36 <jeanne> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/SCR37
15:21:00 <jeanne> scribe: jeanne
15:21:21 <Zakim> +Detlev
15:21:25 <jeanne> Mike: I wrote some proposed text that I didn't know how to put into the wiki
15:21:38 <Detlev> scribe: Detlev
15:21:43 <jeanne> [Kim gives instructions for editing the wiki]
15:23:23 <jeanne> +1 to MikeS edit
15:23:45 <Detlev> MikeS proposes a new edit for SCR37 in the Wiki
15:23:50 <jon_avila> +1
15:23:56 <Detlev> fine
15:24:04 <Jan> +1
15:24:29 <KimPatch> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140908_survey/results
15:24:49 <Detlev> Zakim, take up next
15:24:49 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Survey from last week #5:  https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140901_survey/results#xq5" taken up [from KimPatch]
15:25:08 <Detlev> Zakim, take up next
15:25:08 <Zakim> agendum 4 was just opened, Detlev
15:25:20 <jeanne> zakim, close item 4
15:25:20 <Zakim> agendum 4, Survey from last week #5:  https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140901_survey/results#xq5, closed
15:25:22 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:25:22 <Zakim> 5. New Survey:  please fill out before the call on Thursday:  https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140908_survey/ [from KimPatch]
15:25:24 <jeanne> zakim, take up next
15:25:24 <Zakim> agendum 5. "New Survey:  please fill out before the call on Thursday:  https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140908_survey/" taken up [from KimPatch]
15:26:06 <Detlev> Duscussing G60: Playing a sound that turns off automatically within three seconds
15:29:17 <Detlev> Kim: disruption outside (e..g. on a journey)  could be more dangerous
15:29:51 <Detlev> Jan: Could be more relevant in the mobile space
15:29:58 <jon_avila> q+
15:30:06 <jon_avila> q?
15:30:14 <Detlev> MikeS: agrees with Jan, a mobile example might help
15:31:47 <Detlev> Jon: agrees it makes sense to bring this to peoples attention - butwe'll get a negative response from WG, needs another discussion
15:32:12 <Detlev> Jeanne: Was there a comment about that on the WG call?
15:32:26 <Detlev> Jon: nit sure what the resolution of WG was
15:32:58 <Detlev> Jeanne: in the absence of a formal resolution we should continue, not change on the vasis of individual comments
15:33:27 <Detlev> Jon: reads resolution (left open)
15:33:32 <jon_avila> http://www.w3.org/2014/09/09-wai-wcag-minutes.html
15:34:01 <Detlev> Kim: agrees with Jeanne not to change direction for now
15:34:22 <Detlev> Kim: Let's take this up when kathy is back next week
15:36:51 <Detlev> MikeS: primary  intend is not to interfere with screenreader output, plus other cases
15:37:11 <Detlev> Jan: likes MikeS rewording
15:37:15 <Detlev> 1+
15:37:35 <KimPatch>  	Recommend simplifying the phrasing to:
15:37:37 <KimPatch> Mobile device users may be in a location, such as a meeting or on public transportation, where sound from the device would be distracting or disruptive to the environment or surrounding people.
15:38:15 <Detlev> Next: G83: Providing text descriptions to identify required fields that were not completed
15:38:57 <Detlev> Kim: focus is on additions to reflect HTML5, it's not mobile specific
15:39:08 <Detlev> Kim: Jeanne, any commets?
15:41:17 <Detlev> Jeanne: suggests passing on to WCAG WG (Andrew) they can decide hhow to handle this
15:41:34 <jon_avila> q+
15:42:07 <Detlev> RESOLUTION: pass on updates that are not mobile-related to WCAG WG (Andrew) so they can decide how to handle this
15:42:59 <jon_avila> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/G60#Suggested_Changes
15:43:07 <Detlev> Jon: should we use del element to indicate things that were deleted (for reference)?
15:43:43 <Detlev> Jon; del needs to be flagged as non-wiki
15:45:11 <Detlev> So markup is like <del><nowiki>...</nowiki></del>
15:45:33 <Detlev> G84: Providing a text description when the user provides information that is not in the list of allowed values
15:46:04 <Detlev> Kim: same as above - not mobile specific, pass on
15:46:38 <Detlev> Kim; should be pass on this to the WG as well?
15:47:03 <Jan> +1
15:47:04 <Detlev> Kim: Any objections?
15:47:23 <Detlev> pass on
15:48:16 <Detlev> RESOLUTION: G83 and G84 passed on to WCAG WG
15:48:40 <KimPatch> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2014Sep/0004.html
15:49:02 <Detlev> Kim: Email from Jan
15:49:42 <Jan> Existing tech http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/G202.html
15:50:06 <Detlev> Jan: wasn't sure what was needed - looked at exisiting technique that doesn't mention mobile
15:50:27 <Detlev> jan: many people are not aware that mobile users use keyboards too
15:51:20 <Detlev> Jan: New definition of interface to include mobile keyboards internal and external (reads from proposal)
15:53:55 <Detlev> MikeS: Likes changes, they add value, third example with menu button - some items like menu lists are difficult to access with a keyboard / switch / button
15:54:42 <jon_avila> +1
15:54:56 <Detlev> Kim: that language might be used elsewhere
15:55:34 <Detlev> Jan: currentreference to keyboard interface may be construed as refering to normal keyboard only
15:56:00 <Detlev> Kim: should we add a second example?
15:56:55 <Detlev> Jan: menu button - could be changed to menu overlay (MikeS doing edits in the Wiki for G202
15:57:10 <Jan> The mobile version of a web site includes a menu button that is tapped to open the site's menu, which is implemented as a floating overlay. To provide access to people using external keyboards or ability switches with their mobile device, the menu button and the overlaid site menu are both implemented such that they can be operated via the mobile device's keyboard interface.
15:57:14 <jon_avila> From the UAAG 2 working draft:keyboardThe letter, symbol and command keys or key indicators that allow a user to control a computing device. Assistive technologies have traditionally relied on the keyboard interface as a universal, or modality independent interface. In this document references to keyboard include keyboard emulators and keyboard interfaces that make use of the keyboard's role as a modality independent interface (see Modality Indep[CUT]
15:57:20 <jon_avila> q+
15:58:28 <Detlev> Jeanne: suggests adding G202 to next week's survey
15:58:37 <Detlev> Detlev: add G145
15:58:51 <Detlev> Kim: Please pick up another technique
15:59:13 <Detlev> Jon: thinks that Jan proposed a goof change to keyboard (G202)
15:59:31 <jeanne> s/goof/good
15:59:50 <Detlev> Jon: Not sure whether it holds true to al mobile fieds, e.g. sone things may not work on iOS
16:00:55 <Detlev> Jan: There are also platforms without keyboard API - iOS haveused their more general API to work for keyboard
16:01:15 <Detlev> Kim: needs more disussion
16:01:23 <Zakim> -jon_avila
16:01:28 <Detlev> KIm: closes meeting
16:01:31 <Detlev> Bye!
16:01:32 <Zakim> -Brent_Shiver
16:01:33 <Zakim> -Jeanne
16:01:33 <Zakim> -Mike
16:01:34 <Zakim> -Jan
16:01:40 <Zakim> -Detlev
16:01:44 <Zakim> -Kenny
16:01:46 <Zakim> -Kim_Patch
16:01:47 <Zakim> WAI_MATF()11:00AM has ended
16:01:47 <Zakim> Attendees were Jeanne, Kim_Patch, Detlev, jon_avila, Brent_Shiver, Jan, +1.408.425.aaaa, Mike, Kenny
16:03:03 <KimPatch>  rrsagent, make minutes
16:03:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/11-mobile-a11y-minutes.html KimPatch
16:05:24 <KimPatch>  rrsagent, bye
16:05:24 <RRSAgent> I see no action items