19:59:47 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webfonts
19:59:47 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/10-webfonts-irc
19:59:49 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
19:59:49 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #webfonts
19:59:51 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 3668
19:59:51 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_Fonts()4:00PM scheduled to start in 1 minute
19:59:52 <trackbot> Meeting: WebFonts Working Group Teleconference
19:59:52 <trackbot> Date: 10 September 2014
20:00:36 <sergeym> sergeym has joined #webfonts
20:01:36 <Vlad> zakim, who is here?
20:01:36 <Zakim> IA_Fonts()4:00PM has not yet started, Vlad
20:01:38 <Zakim> On IRC I see sergeym, Zakim, RRSAgent, kuettel, Vlad, trackbot
20:01:50 <Vlad> zakim, this is 3668
20:01:50 <Zakim> ok, Vlad; that matches IA_Fonts()4:00PM
20:01:53 <Vlad> zakim, who is here?
20:01:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see [Google], Vlad
20:01:55 <Zakim> On IRC I see sergeym, Zakim, RRSAgent, kuettel, Vlad, trackbot
20:02:53 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
20:07:10 <Zakim> + +1.250.668.aaaa
20:07:34 <John_Hudson> John_Hudson has joined #webfonts
20:08:56 <Vlad> zakim, aaaa is John_Hudson
20:08:56 <Zakim> +John_Hudson; got it
20:09:43 <kuettel> kuettel has joined #webfonts
20:11:01 <kuettel> Taking a few note today
20:11:27 <kuettel> Starting with: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webfonts-wg/2014Aug/0013.html
20:12:14 <kuettel> Vlad: should all table directory conformance statements carry forward?  Would be a good ideal to review, wouldn't want to automatically carry everything forward
20:12:30 <kuettel> Vlad: esp. as there are some that do not apply (e.g. padding between tables)
20:13:23 <kuettel> action: vlad review conformance statements for WOFF 1.0 and transfer the applicable ones over
20:13:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-138 - Review conformance statements for woff 1.0 and transfer the applicable ones over [on Vladimir Levantovsky - due 2014-09-17].
20:13:58 <kuettel> Next "5. Compressed data format"
20:14:22 <kuettel> Make compressing with Brotli a MUST
20:14:36 <kuettel> John H., yes, sounds good
20:15:00 <kuettel> Next: ""If the decompression function fails for any table, the WOFF file is invalid and MUST NOT be loaded."
20:15:09 <kuettel> Yes, the file should be discarded if invalid
20:15:46 <kuettel> Next: "Do we have the same constraints on table data immediately following table directory,"
20:16:01 <kuettel> Vlad is working on updating the spec (addressed last week)
20:17:24 <kuettel> Vlad: to recap, made sense with 1.0 to reproduce the exact binary, in 2.0 will ask decoder to order by OpenType recommendations, but order not significant otherwise
20:19:21 <kuettel> John H: note, that the OpenType specification only captures the order for a set of the tables, not any possible one.  We would just want to convey this in the spec
20:21:05 <kuettel> John H: the specification has a different list for CFF (vs. TrueType).  Not a big difference, but good to note
20:21:47 <kuettel> Vlad: I updated the specification to cover this, along with links to the recommendations
20:22:33 <kuettel> John H: note, that for OpenType this is a recommendation.
20:22:56 <kuettel> Vlad: our specification will say that the decoder SHOULD follow the OpenType spec
20:24:58 <kuettel> Next: "These differences will invalidate 'DSIG' table"
20:25:09 <jfkthame> jfkthame has joined #webfonts
20:25:24 <kuettel> Vlad: we covered this in the past, and added the recommendation that WOFF 2.0 remove the DSIG table
20:26:13 <Zakim> +??P4
20:26:43 <kuettel> Vlad: Sergey had clarified that the DSIG table was used in showing the icon type, but that has (likely) since changed
20:26:58 <kuettel> Jonathan Kew just joined!  Welcome
20:28:37 <kuettel> Vlad: Behdad had elaborated on how an empty DSIG table could work
20:29:35 <kuettel> Vlad: the comment from Chris was that we should be clearer on whether the DSIG table should be removed or not
20:30:13 <kuettel> Vlad: wasn't suggesting any changes that would change the file format, rather improving the spec
20:31:11 <kuettel> Vlad, David: would like to keep the behavior as is, and change spec to MUST remove DSIG
20:33:01 <Vlad> Vlad has joined #webfonts
20:35:09 <kuettel> Vlad: accept Chris's suggested wording
20:35:37 <kuettel> action vlad Update the DISG wording per Chris's recommendations (to always remove the table)
20:35:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-139 - Update the disg wording per chris's recommendations (to always remove the table) [on Vladimir Levantovsky - due 2014-09-17].
20:36:00 <kuettel> Next: "The WOFF 2.0 encoders SHOULD also set bit 11 of the 'flags' field of
20:36:19 <kuettel> Vlad: yes, let's require this (MUST)
20:36:55 <kuettel> action vlad The WOFF 2.0 encoders MUST also set bit 11 of the 'flags' field
20:36:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-140 - The woff 2.0 encoders must also set bit 11 of the 'flags' field [on Vladimir Levantovsky - due 2014-09-17].
20:37:35 <kuettel> Next: "It is up to the encoder to produce transformed data
20:38:33 <kuettel> Chris suggested: "The encoder MUST produce transformed data that is valid."
20:40:47 <kuettel> Johnathan: spec may not be giving much value, unless the specification clarifies what exactly needs to be done.
20:41:12 <kuettel> Vlad: let's make a note to revisit this later.  something could be changed, but not sure what just yet
20:42:15 <kuettel> Vlad: even if the output is valid OpenType data, how would you test that (if a MUST).  let's defer to face-to-face
20:43:12 <kuettel> Next: "Editor's note: Do we need to add the conformance requirement for UA, if bounding box is not present?"
20:43:15 <kuettel> Vlad: yes
20:44:26 <kuettel> Next: ""a decoder should store for each glyph the corresponding offset in the reconstructed glyph table
20:44:54 <kuettel> Vlad: this could become a normative statement.  acept
20:45:52 <kuettel> action: vlad add a normative statement in the loca table section (to firm up)
20:45:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-141 - Add a normative statement in the loca table section (to firm up) [on Vladimir Levantovsky - due 2014-09-17].
20:47:19 <kuettel> Next: ""Editor's note: Do we need to add the conformance requirement for UA, if bounding box is not present?"
20:47:28 <kuettel> Vlad: yes
20:48:01 <kuettel> action: vlad update spec to require bounding box presence
20:48:02 <trackbot> Created ACTION-142 - Update spec to require bounding box presence [on Vladimir Levantovsky - due 2014-09-17].
20:48:28 <kuettel> Next: ""The origLength field MUST specify an adequate amount of space to represent the reconstructed glyf table"
20:49:40 <kuettel> Vlad: need to define better.
20:50:26 <kuettel> Vlad: size of the output data could vary based on the optimizations applied.  nominal size not there yet...
20:51:39 <kuettel> Vlad: ultimately it's up to the decoder.  possible security concern.
20:52:07 <kuettel> Jonathan: implementor could allocate the wrong amount of memory
20:52:32 <kuettel> Jonathan: note that the size is a "guide", but may not be accurate
20:52:54 <kuettel> Jonathan: other option, specify an exact algorithm
20:53:32 <kuettel> Jonathan: would still be up to the implementor, but at least the specification would be clear
20:54:26 <kuettel> Vlad: exact algorithm would be hard, brute force / largest data not ideal, achieving optimal results could be overkill
20:56:12 <kuettel> Jonathan: could specify the simplest brute force algorithm, while allowing the decoder the flexibility to be more efficient
20:56:36 <kuettel> Sergey: efficiency in space or size?
20:57:21 <kuettel> Vlad: many unknowns, but the could be a big undertaking to get right (to make it very reliable memory allocation size wise)
20:58:18 <kuettel> Vlad: let's continue at the f2f
20:58:58 <kuettel> Next: "6. Extended Metadata Block
20:59:33 <kuettel> Vlad: should be a MUST
20:59:50 <kuettel> Vlad: in regards to single stream or separate.  yes, separate compression stream
21:00:28 <kuettel> Vlad: padding, alignment.  had highlighted this as a question
21:01:17 <kuettel> action: rod check padding and alignment in reference implementation
21:01:17 <trackbot> Error finding 'rod'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/users>.
21:02:06 <kuettel> Vlad: first should be made explicit, next four byte aligned data blocks
21:04:16 <kuettel> Next: covering the bug that was uncovered, where the spec and reference implementation had drifted
21:04:35 <kuettel> John H: any behavioral impact?
21:04:54 <kuettel> Vlad: no, data is not changed, only the sequence is not modified.
21:08:46 <kuettel> Vlad: fine updating the spec to reflect this (just a cosmetic change)
21:09:53 <kuettel> action: vlad update the spec in regards to the bug
21:09:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-143 - Update the spec in regards to the bug [on Vladimir Levantovsky - due 2014-09-17].
21:11:16 <Zakim> -[Google]
21:11:19 <Zakim> -John_Hudson
21:11:21 <Zakim> -??P4
21:11:24 <Vlad> zakim, list attendees
21:11:24 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been [Google], Vlad, [Microsoft], +1.250.668.aaaa, John_Hudson
21:11:39 <Vlad> rrsagent, make minutes
21:11:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/10-webfonts-minutes.html Vlad
21:12:08 <jfkthame> jfkthame has left #webfonts
21:12:39 <Zakim> -Vlad
21:13:11 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
21:13:12 <Zakim> IA_Fonts()4:00PM has ended
21:13:12 <Zakim> Attendees were [Google], Vlad, [Microsoft], +1.250.668.aaaa, John_Hudson