12:56:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
12:56:52 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-svg-irc
12:56:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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12:56:56 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
12:56:56 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGWG()9:00AM already started
12:56:57 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
12:56:57 <trackbot> Date: 04 September 2014
12:57:06 <heycam> Zakim, who is on the call?
12:57:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P14
12:59:01 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
12:59:12 <birtles> Zakim, [ is me
12:59:12 <Zakim> +birtles; got it
12:59:28 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
12:59:30 <heycam> Zakim, [ is me
12:59:30 <Zakim> +heycam; got it
12:59:58 <Smailus> zakim, ??P14 is me
12:59:58 <Zakim> +Smailus; got it
13:00:15 <Cyril> Cyril has joined #svg
13:00:25 <Zakim> +??P21
13:00:28 <heycam> Chair: Cameron
13:00:37 <heycam> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2014JulSep/0078.html
13:00:39 <heycam> Regrets: Dirk
13:00:40 <stakagi> zakim, ??P21 is me
13:00:40 <Zakim> +stakagi; got it
13:01:47 <Zakim> +Tav
13:01:52 <Zakim> +Cyril
13:02:06 <heycam> Regrets+ Doug
13:02:12 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
13:02:25 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #svg
13:03:05 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:03:24 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
13:03:36 <cabanier> zakim, [IPcalller] is me
13:03:36 <Zakim> sorry, cabanier, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcalller]'
13:03:53 <cabanier> zakim, [IPcalller is me
13:03:53 <Zakim> sorry, cabanier, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcalller'
13:03:58 <cabanier> zakim, IPcalller is me
13:03:59 <Zakim> sorry, cabanier, I do not recognize a party named 'IPcalller'
13:04:17 <ed> Zakim, [IP caller.a] is me
13:04:17 <Zakim> I don't understand '[IP caller.a] is me', ed
13:04:18 <cabanier> zakim, [IPcaller is me
13:04:19 <Zakim> sorry, cabanier, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller'
13:04:25 <ed> Zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
13:04:25 <Zakim> +ed; got it
13:04:33 <cabanier> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
13:04:34 <Zakim> +cabanier; got it
13:05:57 <richardschwerdtfeger> Topic: Interaction of 'x' and 'startOffset' (Tav)
13:06:04 <Smailus> http://tavmjong.free.fr/SVG/TEXT_PATH/text_on_path_test.svg
13:06:07 <richardschwerdtfeger>  http://tavmjong.free.fr/SVG/TEXT_PATH/text_on_path_test.svg
13:06:42 <richardschwerdtfeger> Tav: This came up as a filed on a bug where text on a path was not working in Firefox
13:06:55 <richardschwerdtfeger> Tav: Firefox ignores the x
13:07:25 <richardschwerdtfeger> Tav: y is ignored
13:08:29 <richardschwerdtfeger> Tav: the path has a start and stop offset. It is not 100 percent clear how they interact. The start offset and the X. One is on the text element and one is on the path
13:08:41 <richardschwerdtfeger> Tav: Chrome adds them together and I believe this is correct.
13:09:01 <ed> startOffset
13:09:45 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: Let me explain the FF implementation. Where in the spec does it say the X attribute has that effect on the text path?
13:10:15 <richardschwerdtfeger> Tav: in the last paragraph in the text section. …
13:10:39 <ed> tav: "When the inline-progression-direction is horizontal, then any ‘x’ attributes on ‘text’, ‘tspan’, ‘tref’ or ‘altGlyph’ elements represent new absolute offsets along the path, thus providing explicit new values for startpoint-on-the-path. Any ‘y’ attributes on ‘text’, ‘tspan’, ‘tref’ or ‘altGlyph’ elements are ignored." <-- is this the paragraph you mean?
13:10:49 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: Effectively the text path element provides absolute positions for all of its children. so if you have an x on the parent it is overridden by the text path.
13:11:00 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: If you had x=“50
13:11:43 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: The text path provides absolute position for all of its descendants
13:12:05 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: I am not sure I like that Y is ignored when you have horizontal text.
13:12:23 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: If text is ignoring the path y should do something sensible.
13:12:43 <richardschwerdtfeger> Thomas: It does not make sense to talk about horizontal and vertical text whe it is following a path
13:13:27 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: If you have vertical text then y attributes would go upon the inline direction
13:14:01 <richardschwerdtfeger> Tav: the basic philosophy in the existing text. … I see where you say it is strange to igore Y.
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13:14:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: I think Firefox takes notice of dx and dy. I need to check.
13:14:56 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: Tas, did you test various browsers?
13:15:02 <richardschwerdtfeger> Tas: I only tested FF and Chrome
13:15:17 <richardschwerdtfeger> Tas: Testing old Opera is not so useful
13:16:13 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: Even if you have  x=50 on the text element. …
13:16:23 <Zakim> +ChrisL
13:16:39 <ChrisL> rrsagent, here
13:16:39 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-svg-irc#T13-16-39
13:17:07 <richardschwerdtfeger> Thomas: If you have an infinitely long straight line the startOffset is an additional
13:17:20 <richardschwerdtfeger> Thomas: This is how I would describe it to clarify the text
13:17:33 <ed> s/thomas/tav/
13:17:39 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: If you have multiple text chunks within the same text path may be another consideration
13:17:51 <richardschwerdtfeger> Thomas: You mean like multi-line text?
13:18:18 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: If you apply anchoring to those chunks. … you may use textanchor middle
13:18:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> ChrisL: Is that text to be centered?
13:18:44 <ed> startOffset="50%" text-anchor="middle" is commonly used for centering text on a path
13:18:53 <richardschwerdtfeger> Thomas: 20 pixels from the end of the line.
13:19:16 <richardschwerdtfeger> ChrisL: You don’t get all of the text in FF and some of the string is clipped off.
13:19:33 <richardschwerdtfeger> ChrisL: IE nad old Opera do it correctly
13:19:48 <richardschwerdtfeger> Nikos: The spec. tells you to ignore the Y
13:20:13 <ChrisL> ignore y but not dy, right?
13:21:20 <ed> s/nikos/ed/
13:21:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> Thomas: if there are a lot of text attributes and tspan this would offset them all
13:21:53 <richardschwerdtfeger>  cam: you would shift them all
13:22:11 <richardschwerdtfeger> cam: that makes sense to me.
13:22:29 <richardschwerdtfeger> Thomas: then I can clarify the spec. and file a bug on FF
13:23:12 <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: x and y attributes do apply to glyphs within a text path. x supplies horizontal text. y supplies horizontal text.
13:24:20 <richardschwerdtfeger> Thomas: we did resolve that the startOffset is an additional offset to the x and the y?
13:24:28 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: to every absolute x position
13:25:15 <ChrisL> s/Thomas/Tav/g
13:25:26 <ChrisL> s/Tas/Tav/g
13:25:41 <heycam> s/y supplies horizontal text/y applies to vertical text/
13:25:46 <richardschwerdtfeger> Action: Tav take an action to check to make sure on the text layout.
13:25:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3666 - Take an action to check to make sure on the text layout. [on Tavmjong Bah - due 2014-09-11].
13:26:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: if you could do anchoring in the text path it is a bit blurry on how that is supposed to work
13:26:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> Tav: I can test that in different browsers
13:26:49 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: Do people do it with startOffset 50% and text anchor in the middle?
13:26:54 <richardschwerdtfeger> Ed: pretty common
13:27:38 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: you want to clarify that startOffset is an additional transform to any x or y
13:28:02 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: the spec. is not clear here?
13:28:05 <richardschwerdtfeger> Tav: yes
13:28:25 <richardschwerdtfeger> Action: Tav clarify in the text that startOffset is an additional transform to any x or y
13:28:25 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3667 - Clarify in the text that startoffset is an additional transform to any x or y [on Tavmjong Bah - due 2014-09-11].
13:28:38 <heycam> ISSUE: Should y move glyphs orthogonal to the text path?
13:28:38 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-2462 - Should y move glyphs orthogonal to the text path?.  Please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2462/edit>.
13:28:43 <ed> s/pretty common/pretty common. Note: it does depend on the path data of course, where the path starts, a common case is having a circle, which is often realised with a bunch of arcs or beziers...
13:29:01 <richardschwerdtfeger> scribe: Rich
13:29:06 <richardschwerdtfeger> Topic: Scripts running in external documents referenced by <use> (Cameron)
13:29:07 <richardschwerdtfeger> 
13:29:08 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://www.w3.org/mid/CAOu7Uv7OxqgZTzzzqvwvhL-aqwMxynDpseZnFpBi=SjkMeOuVA@mail.gmail.com
13:29:27 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: This came up in a recent bug in Firefox
13:29:38 <ed> scribeNick: richardschwerdtfeger
13:30:08 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: Robert has 4 questions in his email.
13:30:21 <ChrisL> This should be covered by integration spec (and if not, that spec should be clarified)
13:30:37 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: 1. Should scripts run if they are somewhere in the document but outside of what you are using. (in the context_
13:30:44 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: I think this should be No.
13:31:21 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: 2. If you use a subtree which has a script element in the subtree does that script run within the context of the referring document
13:31:58 <richardschwerdtfeger> ChrisL: I believe the script should run but the script should not run in that context
13:32:29 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: If you obtained a script element and it is being put in the document in the shadow tree, they will run there.
13:32:44 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: to match that script elements should run here as well. … my initial thought
13:32:55 <ChrisL> s/ the script should not run in that context/the script should run in context of referred document/
13:33:25 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: The script only makes sense in the context in which it was written
13:33:45 <richardschwerdtfeger> That was ChrisL
13:34:23 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: you might be able to call getElementByID on the shadow root
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13:34:39 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: you might be able to reference things out of the shadow tree
13:35:25 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: these resource libraries may have script in there that might do what you would not expect like reference cookies
13:35:54 <richardschwerdtfeger> ChrisL: trust origins are already in place.
13:36:08 <richardschwerdtfeger> ChrisL: you would have access in its domain
13:36:52 <ChrisL> for example GIS lookups. Its covered by cross origin restrictions
13:36:57 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: If you are not in control of an external document you could access the cookie on another domain
13:37:25 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: Have we restricted it so that you can’t access resources in external domains
13:37:54 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: I don’t think they will if we describe the purpose of the use element
13:38:10 <richardschwerdtfeger> ChrisL: ok
13:38:37 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: I would like to compare how web components work for these custom element definitions that you might be importing from another document
13:38:48 <ChrisL> yeah okay if its a deep clone into a shadow tree of the referring document
13:38:51 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: Maybe that would inform what the model should be here
13:38:59 <richardschwerdtfeger> Ed: I would like to see some examples of that
13:40:10 <richardschwerdtfeger> Action: Cam to investigate how web components work for these custom element definitions that you might be importing from another document
13:40:10 <trackbot> Error finding 'Cam'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/users>.
13:40:34 <ChrisL> trackbot, status
13:40:38 <richardschwerdtfeger> Action: Cameron Investigate how web components work for these custom element definitions that you might be importing from another documen
13:40:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3668 - Investigate how web components work for these custom element definitions that you might be importing from another documen [on Cameron McCormack - due 2014-09-11].
13:41:07 <richardschwerdtfeger> trackbot, make log public
13:41:07 <trackbot> Sorry, richardschwerdtfeger, I don't understand 'trackbot, make log public'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
13:41:16 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make log public
13:41:28 <richardschwerdtfeger> chair: Cam
13:41:49 <richardschwerdtfeger> Meeting: SVG Working Group
13:42:10 <richardschwerdtfeger> ChrisL: are image elements allowed to reference a subtree and can SVG reference the subtree?
13:42:42 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: the first is a separate document. The second is no.
13:42:54 <richardschwerdtfeger> ChrisL: I am treating this as a bug report on the integration document
13:43:30 <richardschwerdtfeger> cam: all the minutes for 2014 are in there so this might be a useful page
13:43:51 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: when I get a free moment I will insert minutes from other meetings
13:44:21 <ChrisL> that looks super useful
13:45:09 <richardschwerdtfeger> Chris: that topic database you can edit the entries are there
13:45:16 <richardschwerdtfeger> sorry that was Cam:
13:45:26 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: the topics page is generated
13:45:52 <birtles> no, sorry
13:46:38 <richardschwerdtfeger> ChrisL: is there an issue if you post to 2 lists twice?
13:46:40 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: no
13:47:25 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam: we are sorting the minutes where the most recent is first
13:48:01 <richardschwerdtfeger> zakim, bye
13:48:01 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were birtles, heycam, Smailus, stakagi, Tav, Cyril, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, ed, cabanier, ChrisL
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13:48:05 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make minutes
13:48:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-svg-minutes.html richardschwerdtfeger
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