13:46:10 RRSAgent has joined #dap 13:46:10 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-dap-irc 13:46:12 RRSAgent, make logs world 13:46:12 Zakim has joined #dap 13:46:14 Zakim, this will be DAP 13:46:14 ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 14 minutes 13:46:15 Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference 13:46:15 Date: 04 September 2014 13:46:45 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Sep/0013.html 13:47:02 fjh has changed the topic to: dap 3279 ; agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Sep/0013.html 13:47:18 Chair: Frederick_Hirsch 13:47:21 Present+ Frederick_Hirsch 13:47:38 ScribeNick: fjh 13:47:40 Topic: Welcome, agenda review, scribe selection, announcements 13:54:51 marcosc has joined #dap 13:55:01 marcosc has joined #dap 13:57:46 UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started 13:57:52 +[IPcaller] 13:57:55 zakim, ipcaller is me 13:57:55 +fjh; got it 13:58:20 +??P1 13:58:27 zakim, ??P1 is me 13:58:27 +anssik; got it 13:58:34 Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen 13:58:40 zakim, who's here? 13:58:40 On the phone I see fjh, anssik 13:58:42 On IRC I see marcosc, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, mats, dom, anssik, tobie, Josh_Soref___, mounir, trackbot 13:59:08 Present+ Mats_Wichmann 13:59:36 +??P7 13:59:40 +??P11 14:00:09 Zakim, mute ??P7 14:00:09 ??P7 should now be muted 14:00:16 Zakim, ??P7 is mats 14:00:17 +mats; got it 14:00:17 Zakim, unmute ??P7 14:00:17 sorry, dom, I do not know which phone connection belongs to ??P7 14:00:21 Zakim, unmute mats 14:00:21 mats should no longer be muted 14:00:34 Zakim, ??P11 is me 14:00:34 +dom; got it 14:00:39 Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux 14:00:58 zakim, who is here? 14:00:58 On the phone I see fjh, anssik, mats, dom 14:01:00 On IRC I see marcosc, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, mats, dom, anssik, tobie, Josh_Soref___, mounir, trackbot 14:01:37 Reminder, TPAC registration is open (however, DAP has no plans to meet) http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/ 14:01:49 Topic: Minutes approval 14:01:57 Approve minutes from 21 August 2014 14:01:57 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Aug/att-0050/minutes-2014-08-21.html 14:02:07 RESOLUTION: Minutes from 21 August 2014 are approved 14:02:19 Topic: CR publication of HTML Media Capture, Vibration 14:02:41 Plan publication Tue 9 Sept, crEnd 12 Nov 2014 ; http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Sep/0010.html 14:02:42 q+ to mention remark on security reviews 14:02:42 q+ to move to PR 14:02:52 Vibration test cases updated http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Sep/0007.html 14:02:53 test cases approved http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Sep/0008.html 14:03:17 fjh: can we move to PR quickly once crEnd 14:03:18 +Lisa_DeLuca 14:03:37 dom: to go to PR we need to make test suite complete for Vibration 14:03:39 LisaDeLuca_IBM has joined #dap 14:03:46 Present+Lisa_DeLuca 14:04:05 fjh: we need a transtion call for PR 14:04:09 dom: yes, need to prepare that 14:04:33 dom: question of how and why applies to implemenations without vibrator 14:04:42 dom: know spec speaks to it 14:05:19 dom: we should document in our implementation report how desktop browsers implement the vibration API 14:05:27 ... (where presumably there is no vibrator) 14:05:38 +Cathy 14:05:57 fjh: anssik are you able to document this? 14:06:48 anssik: desktop browsers don’t ship with vibration hardware, as long as test shows green in test report, that should be enough 14:07:17 dom: need to document that we’ve verified that they work correctly is enough, need to add column in implementation report for 1 or 2 desktop browsers 14:08:07 action: Zhiqiang to update implmentation report to clarify explicitly which tests are for desktop or mobile 14:08:07 Created ACTION-714 - Update implmentation report to clarify explicitly which tests are for desktop or mobile [on Zhiqiang Zhang - due 2014-09-11]. 14:09:05 dom: have two separate tables, one for devices with a vibrator, and one for devices without, e.g. desktop 14:09:21 ACTION-714: have two separate tables, one for devices with a vibrator, and one for devices without, e.g. desktop 14:09:21 Notes added to ACTION-714 Update implmentation report to clarify explicitly which tests are for desktop or mobile. 14:09:42 http://w3c.github.io/test-results/vibration/all.html 14:09:46 ACTION-714: verify and add note to implementation report that desktop devcies also pass tests 14:09:47 Notes added to ACTION-714 Update implmentation report to clarify explicitly which tests are for desktop or mobile. 14:10:08 dom: anssi, will you be working with Zhiqiang on this 14:10:14 anssik: yes, will talk to him 14:10:34 Cathy has joined #dap 14:10:53 fjh: also please thank him for the test case wok 14:10:57 s/wok/work 14:11:08 Topic: LC Battery publication 14:11:18 LC published, LC ends 2 Oct http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Aug/0068.html 14:11:25 LC-2965, https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/43696/WD-battery-status-20140828/2965 14:11:51 fjh: concern discussed on list whether there should be separate APIs or larger sensor API 14:12:22 fjh: responded, added wiki with history and rationale:http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Sep/0012.html 14:15:10 q+ 14:15:10 fjh: do not think we need to restart, we have already progressed, new design in v.next could be used 14:15:38 dom: agreed we should proceed with the API as is 14:15:48 dom: agree to not restart, have two implementations 14:15:50 ... might not be perfect, but there is inteerst from 2 implementors with the API as is 14:15:53 ack anssik 14:15:58 ack dom 14:15:58 dom, you wanted to mention remark on security reviews and to move to PR 14:16:01 ... we can always look into a v2 API if needed 14:16:24 anssik: agree with dom, no technical issue that needs to be fixed, more a matter of taste, not a good reason to restart so late in game 14:17:22 fjh: time to respond to LC comment 14:17:28 dom: CfC might be approriate 14:17:46 fjh: will do CfC 14:18:15 action: fjh to send CfC to close LC-2965 with proposal to continue existing Battery API with v.next if needed 14:18:15 Created ACTION-715 - Send cfc to close lc-2965 with proposal to continue existing battery api with v.next if needed [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2014-09-11]. 14:18:32 Topic: Ambient Light 14:18:41 ISSUE-170? 14:18:41 ISSUE-170 -- light levels are not retrievable until a change causes the devicelight event to fire. -- open 14:18:41 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/170 14:18:54 see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Aug/0058.html 14:19:05 fjh: this thread has been progressing but seems to have stopped 14:19:20 fjh: this work is taking time since we only have one implementation 14:19:27 fjh: any more action we can do 14:19:33 https://github.com/rwaldron/sensors 14:19:39 anssik: waiting for more input, have seen concrete proposal 14:20:02 … some issues, cannot describe in WebIDL, non global constructors for example 14:20:08 … but most complete re-design we have now 14:20:18 … WebIDL is limited for javascript 14:20:40 fjh: I think WebIDL should be make Javascript specific and enhanced in that way, but this is an aside 14:20:46 anssi: suggestions? 14:21:10 dom: should use WebIDL where you can, best practice when you cannot use it, suggest changes to WebIDL 14:21:23 … otherewise use prose if needec 14:21:30 s/needec/needed/ 14:21:44 anssi: elsehwere any constructor that is not a global, cannot find precedent 14:21:45 Sensor.AmbientLight 14:22:06 anssik: thisi s a contructor, cannot define in WebIDL 14:22:16 dom: can’t you ??? 14:22:41 anssik: looked on mailing list, ,found some similar needs elsehwere, did not see solution 14:22:46 dom: then you know more than me 14:22:57 dom: ask on public-script-coord 14:23:09 anssik: big backlog of WebIDL features 14:23:23 dom: ask on public-script-coord list, and use prose for now 14:24:37 action: dom to add rwalron as invited expert to DAP group 14:24:38 Created ACTION-716 - Add rwalron as invited expert to dap group [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2014-09-11]. 14:24:54 anssik: could ask him to co-edit if interest as well 14:25:19 dom: ok, will work with him 14:26:44 Topic: Wake Lock 14:27:01 Discussion is happening on public-script-coord list until 1st DAP submission draft ready, see 14:27:02 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-script-coord/2014JulSep/ 14:27:25 fjh: I’ve asked if this should come on the DAP list, marcos suggested it stay there until a submission draft is ready 14:27:36 fjh: so follow that list if interested for now 14:27:50 Topic: Charter planning 14:27:56 fjh: repeat of what I said on last call 14:28:09 re "An API for requesting and managing user permissions to use device features" 14:28:09 Charter expires year end, revised draft charter needed by end of October. 14:28:10 request for input: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Aug/0042.html 14:28:10 Discussion - need for broader changes; plans for addition of new deliverables (discuss CfC for individual additions) 14:28:11 q+ 14:28:19 fjh: so far I’m not hearing a call for broader changes 14:28:22 ack anssik 14:28:44 anssik: in community there is interest toward permissions API 14:28:57 -> http://www.w3.org/mid/1409665898.958678.162617421.41145326@webmail.messagingengine.com Mounir's proposal on Permissions API 14:29:00 … might want to consider including 14:30:00 (our latest work on a permission API http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/api-perms/) 14:30:25 fjh: my understanding is that Mounir’s proposal is a very thin layer, not defining the mechanism of permissioning underneath, but rather providing an API to unify handling of prompts or whatever is underneath 14:30:29 anssik: yes 14:30:45 fjh: so different than what DAP started with, but in scope of DAP 14:30:54 anssik: could consider 14:30:57 fjh: already in charter 14:31:03 dom: no need to change charter 14:31:27 anssik: what is degree of implementer interest 14:31:43 dom: apple not member of group, but not clear 14:32:38 fjh: we can let this deveop on the list, any action needed? 14:33:03 dom: should note on WebApps list that DAP can do this if needed, already in charter 14:33:27 action: fjh to note on WebApps list that this is alreadyin DAP charter, so could be done in DAP if needed, Permissions API 14:33:27 Created ACTION-717 - Note on webapps list that this is alreadyin dap charter, so could be done in dap if needed, permissions api [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2014-09-11]. 14:33:58 Topic: Network Service Discovery 14:34:08 -> http://www.w3.org/mid/CAAsrAZB6UOexzwG3VODMmrGMprCJXLYggxgojAWvMjCmyxGr3g@mail.gmail.com Rich summary of NSD status 14:34:13 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Sep/0018.html 14:34:53 dom: mail ends with questions 14:35:04 So feedback from group participants - both implementers and developers 14:35:05 - would be welcome on the following questions: 14:35:07 1. Is generic network service discovery and communications 14:35:08 bootstrapping important for the web? 14:35:10 2. Does this group want to continue working on a generic network 14:35:11 service discovery and communications bootstrap mechanism? 14:35:13 3. Does this group want to continue working on this against the 14:35:14 current API proposal [2]? 14:35:16 4. Have we reasonably addressed the above security concerns for the 14:35:17 current API proposal [2]? 14:35:18 5. Does anyone have additional plans and/or a roadmap to share 14:35:19 relating to this feature? 14:36:49 dom: might want some feedback from Web & TV group 14:37:01 dom: rich can provide some implementer interest feedback 14:37:56 dom: group response/thread to message 14:38:41 Topic: Meeting Schedule 14:38:49 Next meeting, scheduled for 18 Sept, http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/minutes.html#upcoming-teleconferences 14:38:59 proposal to cancel 16 Oct and 30 Oct (TPAC) 14:39:06 Suggestion - schedule call for 9 Oct 14:39:34 works for me 14:39:37 +1 for me 14:40:09 RESOLUTION: can 16 Oct and 30 Oct teleconferences, add teleconference 9 Oct 14:40:45 Topic: Action and Issue review 14:40:50 ACTION-712? 14:40:50 ACTION-712 -- Dominique Hazaël-Massieux to Look into chartering extensibility -- due 2014-08-28 -- OPEN 14:40:50 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/712 14:41:05 fjh: how to add deliverables once we have existing charter 14:41:47 ACTION-711? 14:41:47 ACTION-711 -- Dominique Hazaël-Massieux to Arrange director transition call for cr for html media capture, light, vibration before 28 aug planned publication date -- due 2014-08-28 -- PENDINGREVIEW 14:41:47 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/711 14:41:50 close ACTION-711 14:41:50 Closed ACTION-711. 14:41:54 ACTION-713? 14:41:54 ACTION-713 -- Frederick Hirsch to Follow up on status of network service discovery and plans going forward, also named web sockets -- due 2014-08-28 -- PENDINGREVIEW 14:41:54 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/713 14:41:59 close ACTION-713 14:41:59 Closed ACTION-713. 14:42:06 Topic: Cordova 14:42:09 lisa: all vibration changes are live for Cordova, vibration fully aligned, now will look at Battery status 14:42:28 dom: anything we can do to help with battery? 14:42:48 lgombos has joined #dap 14:42:51 lisa: will see degree of alignment, summarize and then ask for help 14:44:10 -Lisa_DeLuca 14:44:30 Topic: Adjourn 14:44:32 -anssik 14:44:34 -dom 14:44:36 -Cathy 14:44:39 rrsagent, generate minutes 14:44:39 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-dap-minutes.html fjh 14:44:43 -fjh 14:44:47 -mats 14:44:49 UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended 14:44:49 Attendees were fjh, anssik, mats, dom, Lisa_DeLuca, Cathy 14:58:51 lgombos has joined #dap 14:58:51 Cathy has joined #dap 14:58:51 LisaDeLuca_IBM has joined #dap 14:58:51 marcosc has joined #dap 14:58:51 fjh has joined #dap 14:58:51 mats has joined #dap 14:58:51 anssik has joined #dap 14:58:51 tobie has joined #dap 14:58:51 Josh_Soref___ has joined #dap 14:58:51 mounir has joined #dap 15:00:50 Present+ Cathy_Chan 15:01:47 s/can we move /CR approved, I have made the publication request. Can we move/ 15:02:02 s/implemenations/implementations/ 15:02:45 s/is enough, need/, need/ 15:03:15 s/devcies/devices/ 15:04:53 s/thisi s/this is/ 15:05:42 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:05:42 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-dap-minutes.html fjh 15:34:09 mats has joined #dap 16:56:20 Zakim has left #dap 17:14:57 slightlyoff has joined #dap 17:39:01 mats has joined #dap 18:22:49 marcosc_ has joined #dap 18:23:53 marcosc_ has joined #dap 19:42:14 marcosc_ has joined #dap 19:42:14 mats has joined #dap 19:42:14 slightlyoff has joined #dap 19:42:14 lgombos has joined #dap 19:42:14 fjh has joined #dap 19:42:14 anssik has joined #dap 19:42:14 tobie has joined #dap 19:42:14 Josh_Soref___ has joined #dap 19:42:14 mounir has joined #dap 20:07:12 marcosc_ has joined #dap 20:07:12 mats has joined #dap 20:07:12 slightlyoff has joined #dap 20:07:12 lgombos has joined #dap 20:07:12 fjh has joined #dap 20:07:12 anssik has joined #dap 20:07:12 tobie has joined #dap 20:07:12 Josh_Soref___ has joined #dap 20:07:12 mounir has joined #dap 21:01:40 dom has joined #dap 21:10:20 richt has joined #dap 22:25:03 richt has joined #dap 22:26:48 richt has joined #dap 22:57:31 marcosc has joined #dap