19:54:43 RRSAgent has joined #social 19:54:43 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/08/12-social-irc 19:55:15 RRSagent, this is social 19:55:15 I'm logging. I don't understand 'this is social', hhalpin. Try /msg RRSAgent help 19:56:08 tantek has joined #social 19:56:47 Team_(social)19:52Z has now started 19:56:55 tantek_ has joined #social 19:56:55 +[Mozilla] 19:56:56 +deiu 19:57:00 +Sandro 19:57:04 Zakim, tantek is in Mozilla 19:57:04 +tantek; got it 19:57:07 tantek note I will be 10 min late 19:57:08 Zakim, mute me please 19:57:08 deiu should now be muted 19:57:10 any scribe volunteers? 19:57:17 thanks hhalpin 19:57:56 just start wo me 19:58:11 caseorganic has joined #social 19:58:13 hey deiu 19:58:18 +jasnell 19:58:23 caseorganic has joined #social 19:58:25 +aaronpk 19:58:33 Zakim, mute sandro please 19:58:33 Sandro should now be muted 19:58:51 Zakim, unmute sandro please 19:58:51 Sandro should no longer be muted 19:58:54 caseorganic has joined #social 19:58:55 howdy all 19:59:22 +[IPcaller] 19:59:25 I can scribe 19:59:36 scribenick deiu 19:59:41 chair: tantek 19:59:45 scribenick: deiu 19:59:46 Zakim, chair: tantek 19:59:46 I don't understand 'chair: tantek', tantek 19:59:54 scribe: deiu 20:00:07 hhalpin can you help us with some bot commands? 20:00:45 +my_name 20:00:59 +Arnaud 20:01:12 I'm on, but I came in via skype so I have no idea what my number is going to look like 20:01:18 Zakim, my_name is AdamB 20:01:18 +AdamB; got it 20:01:18 which ones? 20:01:19 Zakim, who is on the phone? 20:01:19 On the phone I see [Mozilla], deiu (muted), Sandro, jasnell, aaronpk, [IPcaller], AdamB, Arnaud 20:01:19 [Mozilla] has tantek 20:01:43 chair: tantek 20:02:31 evanpro are you dialing in? 20:02:40 [16:01] I'm on, but I came in via skype so I have no idea what my number is going to look like 20:03:13 scribenick? 20:03:27 +MarkC 20:03:50 Topic: Past action items 20:04:11 tantek: aaronpk volunteered last week to set up the 24h irc logs 20:04:17 aaronpk: the logs are now live 20:04:18 http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/today 20:04:29 +1 20:04:32 ... this URL will always redir to today's log 20:04:35 +Ann 20:04:39 ... it will run continuously 20:04:55 tantek: can you document that on the wiki please? 20:05:09 aaronpk: under IRC on the social WG page 20:05:31 tantek: logs look pretty good for now, maybe you want to provide a quick explanation for how they work? 20:05:37 AnnBassetti has joined #social 20:05:39 [Ann said hi] 20:06:12 AnnBassetti: could you clarify what the end result is? 20:06:26 tantek: the current result is that the social WG is using #social on irc.w3.org 20:06:40 +Doug_Schepers 20:06:43 ... the social IG might be using a different name, #socialIG maybe 20:06:52 aaronpk: should Loqi also log that channel? 20:07:12 +[IPcaller.a] 20:07:22 +??P12 20:07:31 aaronpk: I'll log that one too (after the call) 20:07:45 no objection 20:07:50 it's fine 20:08:06 Zakim, who is on the phone? 20:08:06 On the phone I see [Mozilla], deiu (muted), Sandro, jasnell, aaronpk, [IPcaller], AdamB, Arnaud, MarkC, Ann, Doug_Schepers, [IPcaller.a], ??P12 20:08:07 given closely related nature of work sharing channels makes sense 20:08:09 [Mozilla] has tantek 20:08:29 Zakim, ??P12 is me 20:08:29 +rhiaro; got it 20:08:29 [more IRC log talk] 20:08:30 MarkC has joined #Social 20:08:38 I'm using Skype, not sure how to identify myself to Zakim 20:08:39 on in 4 min 20:08:54 aaronpk: there's a wiki page called irc-people; you put your name there and photo 20:09:04 https://www.w3.org/wiki/IRC-people 20:09:21 ... just copy/paste the template from other people 20:09:40 tantek: are the logs live as of today or do they reflect any history? 20:09:47 aaronpk: they go back 3-4 days 20:10:09 tantek: do we have any more questions/issues while at this topic? 20:10:17 [...] 20:10:21 None here 20:10:30 will the logs archive after they roll over pass the 3-4 day period? 20:10:40 if anyone needs clues on how to use IRC at W3C: http://www.w3.org/wiki/IRC 20:10:45 yes, the logs are persistent 20:10:47 q+ 20:10:57 jasnell: they are permanent. ;-) 20:10:57 ack evanpro 20:11:09 q+ 20:11:29 evanpro: can we move the wiki page to the social WG wiki? it seems we're sharing the page with the IG 20:11:44 tantek: names should be unique/irc server so we're ok 20:11:51 great 20:11:56 q? 20:11:58 ack AnnBassetti 20:12:28 AnnBassetti: for people on the phone, if you're not on IRC and/or have not used IRC, please check the wiki page pasted above for info 20:13:36 Please use the nick, not the name when speaking ;) 20:13:48 Topic: follow up on Activity Streams 2.0 20:14:04 q+ 20:14:10 ack jasnell 20:14:12 tantek: from last week we had an action to find out contributors to AS2.0 that are not W3C members 20:14:33 jasnell: all the ones I could find have already signed the agreement 20:15:03 ... for the 2.0 contributions, I believe only 1 contributor has submitted anything substantial and I'm tracking him down 20:15:19 ... he is contributing as an individual, not a company 20:15:54 tantek: beause he's not a W3C member, there's a form he can fill out 20:16:34 q? 20:16:41 tantek: we don't have to worry about it too much for now, at least until we publish a working draaft 20:16:47 s/draaft/draft 20:16:48 deiu meant to say: tantek: we don't have to worry about it too much for now, at least until we publish a working draft 20:16:55 I am collecting a list of AS 1.x / 2.0 impls here: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Activity_Streams#Implementations 20:17:03 q? 20:17:06 Please add if you know of one not listed 20:17:18 harry has joined #social 20:17:42 Topic: regular telcon time preference 20:17:49 tantek: there's a doodle about it 20:17:51 http://doodle.com/pwzi33rcnnagwzg7 20:17:57 Zakim, what's the code? 20:17:57 the conference code is 7625 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), harry 20:18:14 ... so far it's not very friendly to people in US 20:18:33 ... we're trying to gather data for deciding which time will be the least inconvenient 20:18:33 +[IPcaller.aa] 20:18:40 q? 20:18:42 q+ 20:19:00 ... that's an action to everyone to please go ahead and fill in the doodle 20:19:07 ... please try to do that by next Tuesday 20:19:17 ... any questions about the doodle? 20:19:19 ack harry 20:19:21 +??P14 20:19:25 who just joined? 20:19:27 I’m in 20:19:36 harry: we are going to prioritize the chairs and editors (re. timezone) 20:19:37 zakim, ??P14 is barnabywalters 20:19:37 +barnabywalters; got it 20:20:11 ... but we do want to get as many people to participate, so it's probably easier for people in EU to attend a bit later, rather to have US people wake up very early 20:20:33 sandro: if I recall, W3C requires 7 days notice...so maybe we can have the deadline be Sunday 20:21:01 No objection 20:21:05 jasnell_ has joined #social 20:21:08 ... maybe the chair can make a decision on that 20:21:11 tantek: objections to making the deadline Friday? 20:21:11 notes that I'm on vacation next week, but deadline friday makes sense 20:21:18 but we have a much wider selection of time! 20:21:20 [none so far] 20:21:35 q? 20:21:47 as a Europe/London resident, participating in the evening is preferable to during the day. 20:21:54 you can start without me, but we do need 7 day notice 20:21:58 tantek: we've been thinking about starting telcons sometime in September 20:22:05 We could even start last week of August 20:22:09 ... are there any objections/suggestions for a week in Sept? 20:22:32 Week of the 24th? 20:22:33 evanpro: if we pick a day, can we start the week of the 24th Aug? 20:22:37 -rhiaro 20:22:37 tantek: any objections? 20:22:46 harry: that would work for me, with a 7 day notice 20:22:47 for non US people that's the week of the 25th 20:22:55 Is anyone still stuck in legal review of charter? 20:22:56 sounds fine to me 20:23:06 Arnaud: True! 20:23:08 +??P12 20:23:15 RESOLUTION: Will start official telecons 24th of August 20:23:15 me 20:23:24 zakim, ??P12 is bret 20:23:24 +bret; got it 20:23:27 +??P15 20:23:44 Harry, yes .. the Boeing folks still await word from our lawyers 20:23:49 wasnt me (im still here) 20:23:56 ??P15 might be me 20:24:00 Ann - you don't mind if we start on the 24th, right? 20:24:13 start when you start; I will ping our lawyer now 20:24:14 had trouble connecting sorry to be late 20:24:17 no, we don't mind 20:24:21 Zakim, ??P15 might be me 20:24:21 I don't understand '??P15 might be me', rhiaro 20:24:23 tantek: that brings us to the open questions about the WG charter 20:24:24 there's no real way I can speed him up 20:24:32 ... do we have any new invited experts this week? 20:24:46 q+ 20:24:48 harry: I haven't invited anyone new this week 20:24:51 ack evanpro 20:25:16 https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/To_invite 20:25:16 evanpro: if we're aiming for the week of 24th, we do need to extend the invitations sooner rather than later 20:25:25 ... I started a wiki page for organizations 20:25:36 ... I'm in the process of reaching out to people I know at those orgs 20:25:37 zakim, mute tantek 20:25:37 sorry, tantek, I do not know which phone connection belongs to tantek 20:25:48 zakim, tantek is in mozilla 20:25:48 tantek was already listed in [Mozilla], tantek 20:25:53 zakim, mute tantek 20:25:53 sorry, tantek, I do not know which phone connection belongs to tantek 20:25:56 lol 20:26:01 ... harry: is there a formal process to extend an invitation to a W3C member org? 20:26:04 Zakim, ??P15 is me 20:26:04 +rhiaro; got it 20:26:15 ... if there is, then we should reach to people 20:26:24 Zakim, mute me 20:26:24 rhiaro should now be muted 20:26:37 harry: the launch of the WG may not have reached the employees of all the member companies 20:26:55 ... AC reps often miss emails 20:27:20 ... if you do have any friends working for member companies, just invite them yourself and CC me so I can put them in touch with their AC rep 20:27:33 yes, helpful Harry 20:27:36 evanpro: ok, that makes sense 20:28:08 evanpro: I will go through a list and try to contact people 20:28:42 tantek: can you split that list in two, members and orgs that might have invited experts 20:28:47 http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Member/List 20:29:15 evanpro: yes, I will look for orgs that have social products or contribute to social software 20:29:32 tantek: the last question I wanted to raise is about the schedule 20:30:07 ... I want to raise the issue that if we're going to put up a schedule, we should at least start having official discussions... 20:30:21 ... so that people can commit to dates 20:30:46 ... a week out from when we start the official telcons maybe 20:31:20 tantek: that's it about open issues 20:31:41 q? 20:32:50 tantek: I suggest we have another telcon next week (same time) to follow up on open actions 20:32:50 +1 20:32:50 ACTION for aaronpk: log the #socialig IRC channel 20:32:50 Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel. 20:32:53 I wont be there. 20:33:04 but will try to finish any open actions 20:33:16 ACTION for aaronpk: backfill #social logs from before Loqi was in the channel 20:33:16 Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel. 20:33:25 Arnaud: aren't you going to Semtech next week? 20:33:41 s/Arnaud: aren't you going to Semtech next week?/-- 20:33:41 deiu meant to say: --? 20:34:25 tantek: evanpro, can you chair next week? 20:34:28 evanpro: yes 20:34:33 tantek: can anyone scribe next week? 20:34:33 thank you deiu for knowing my schedule better than I do! :) 20:35:06 q? 20:35:15 tantek: ok, next week's chair will have to handle the scribe management next week 20:35:19 tantek: thanks everyone 20:35:21 Thanks tantek! 20:35:21 -jasnell 20:35:28 thanks everyone 20:35:28 everyone: thanks tantek 20:35:29 -MarkC 20:35:30 -AdamB 20:35:31 -[IPcaller] 20:35:32 -Arnaud 20:35:33 -Sandro 20:35:33 -[IPcaller.a] 20:35:34 -[Mozilla] 20:35:35 -aaronpk 20:35:35 -Doug_Schepers 20:35:37 -barnabywalters 20:35:38 -deiu 20:35:39 -bret 20:35:41 -rhiaro 20:35:42 Meeting adjourned 20:35:46 RRSagent, generate minutes 20:35:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/08/12-social-minutes.html harry 20:36:02 One thing I wanted to bring up, which is one of our first tasks in the schedule 20:36:12 is determining what we want out of a social syntax 20:36:20 I started a page on the wiki, here: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_syntax_requirements 20:36:23 evanpro: how do I find a JSON version of your activity stream here? https://e14n.com/evan 20:36:26 jasnell has joined #social 20:36:30 harry, do you know if Zakim has an avatar/icon/logo? 20:36:43 -Ann 20:36:48 tantek: just do an image search ;) 20:36:57 it's just a bridge, really 20:37:45 +Ann 20:37:52 -[IPcaller.aa] 20:38:32 its over 20:38:33 :) 20:38:46 aaronpk: https://e14n.com/api/user/evan/feed 20:38:58 AnnBassetti: meeting again next week 20:39:01 evanpro: "not logged in"... is the JSON version not public? 20:39:05 same time 20:39:11 Oh, that's right, it's not public 20:39:25 and that URL is not discoverable from the HTML version? 20:39:43 that’s actually a pretty cool logo 20:40:09 +1 on that logo 20:40:40 aaronpk: it's discoverable via Webfinger 20:40:42 B-) 20:40:55 ah interesting. but still not public? 20:41:02 Right 20:41:23 if the HTML version is public, why not the AS version? 20:41:37 You have to authenticate remotely; it's a funny system, probably too paranoid on this point. 20:42:04 really I was just looking for a quick example of AS JSON, and thought your site would be the easiest place to copy/paste an example :) 20:42:18 aaronpk: heh 20:42:26 Lemme see what I can do 20:42:40 I've gotta run, will ping later 20:42:43 k cool 20:43:42 aaronpk: there are a couple quick examples in the AS JSON spec. 20:44:01 aaronpk, does Loqi have an avatar? 20:44:01 http://jasnell.github.io/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/activitystreams2.html#examples 20:44:43 but examples in the wild are much more.... diverse 20:44:44 https://www.w3.org/wiki/Activity_Streams/Examples 20:45:02 jasnell: was hoping for an exmaple in the wild because they tend to be more reflective of what things will actually look like 20:46:41 examples in the wild tend to reflect (a) lack of focus on interop, (b) domain specific "extensions", (c) intentional divergence to address specific issues, or (d) differences of opinion 20:47:05 basically, people have the same basic ideas but they're doing it lots of different ways 20:47:15 sounds basically the same as what I said :) 20:47:17 see: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Activity_Streams/Examples#Examples_of_Alternative_Approaches 20:51:53 In most cases that I've seen, there's been an absolute lack of focus on interop in the activity space. Generally, implementers will focus on enabling functionality for their own API only. This results in developers have to write to the fb api, or the google api, or the apigee api, etc... rather than writing to any particular standard 20:52:53 jasnell - strange about lack of focus on interop in activity space. in the indieweb space, there's been a lot of focus on interop, because we have to 20:53:26 frankly that's the same lack of interop focus that happened with OAuth 2 20:54:15 jasnell's examples of fb, google, apigee etc. demonstrate why I'm skeptical about big orgs/sites actually working in good faith on contributing to / implementing any standards 20:54:20 in the "social" space 20:54:21 if you look at specific areas, like the ADL/xAPI stuff, interop is a focus because it's a multi-vendor ecosystem. Problem is, they started with AS and diverged. 20:54:44 that's even worse, where another subconsortium or oligopoly decides to go its own way 20:54:55 that happened with schema too - and now we have volcanoes with fax numberes. 20:55:02 for IBM, the lack of interop is a big deal.. we don't want 100 different ways of doing the same basic things. It's annoying as hell 20:55:04 s/numberes/numbers 20:55:05 tantek meant to say: that happened with schema too - and now we have volcanoes with fax numbers. 20:56:54 tantek: +1 20:57:00 disconnecting the lone participant, Ann, in Team_(social)19:52Z 20:57:01 Team_(social)19:52Z has ended 20:57:01 Attendees were [Mozilla], deiu, Sandro, tantek, jasnell, aaronpk, [IPcaller], Arnaud, AdamB, MarkC, Ann, Doug_Schepers, rhiaro, barnabywalters, bret 20:59:09 for most systems.. the focus tends to be "hey, come use our social tool only. it's everything you need. here's our REST API. isn't it awesome?" .... it's not "Our social tool works with other social tools. If another system publishes profile and activity data, we're capable of using that data also"... way too many social silos being built 21:00:03 tommorris: perhaps you were [IPcaller] ? 21:00:09 I was on Skype. 21:00:38 perhaps you were ??P15 21:01:22 zakim has an avatar now :) http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/2014-08-12/line/1407875153629 21:03:33 aaronpk how do i set an avatar? irc-people? 21:03:44 ya 21:04:09 bret, even /irc-people :) 21:07:28 hrmm cant log into the wiki even with my w3c profile info 21:08:32 did you recently change your password? there's a lag 21:08:48 hrmm 21:08:53 no, but I just did now 21:09:22 http://www.w3.org/accounts/ is the same account as the wiki right? 21:09:37 right 21:09:43 there is definitely sometimes some lag 21:10:03 it didnt work the other day, and it didnt work today. maybe a reset will get it 21:10:35 RRSAgent, publish minutes 21:10:35 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/08/12-social-minutes.html tantek 21:10:49 RRSAgent, make minutes public 21:10:49 I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', tantek. Try /msg RRSAgent help 21:11:24 !tell harry could you make http://www.w3.org/2014/08/12-social-minutes.html public? 21:11:25 Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next 21:11:56 hrmm weird, ill try again later 21:29:07 jasnell has joined #social 21:32:03 RRSAgent, make logs public 21:32:08 tantek 21:32:30 that's the right command 21:33:45 jasnell has joined #social 21:34:53 bblfish has joined #social 21:35:33 bblfish has joined #social 21:35:35 bblfish has joined #social 21:43:11 thanks Arnaud, I've noted it in the agenda for today so hopefully it copy/pastes to the future. 21:43:45 good idea 21:44:08 but once we get a Tracker set up with a regular conference we can get trackbot to do some of that work for us 21:44:23 jasnell has joined #social 21:44:34 then you just have to say "trackbot, start meeting" and possibly "trackbot, end meeting" and it does all that stuff for you 21:45:09 I said "possibly" because actually it will even detect the lack of activity and do that automaticcally if you don't 21:46:30 neat 21:51:21 tantek has changed the topic to: W3C Social Web WG/IG. http://w3.org/wiki/socialwg. Next telcon: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-08-19 21:54:39 jasnell_ has joined #social 21:55:16 bblfish has joined #social 21:57:06 tantek: I actually don't see the icons on the IRC-people, what am I missing? 21:57:25 my update to the /topic 21:57:28 uno momento 21:58:15 tantek has changed the topic to: W3C Social Web WG/IG. http://w3.org/wiki/socialwg. Logs: http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/today. Next telcon: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2014-08-19 21:58:38 there we go 22:00:51 jasnell has joined #social 22:11:22 jasnell has joined #social 22:14:34 jasnell_ has joined #social 22:18:18 jasnell has joined #social 22:23:55 tantek, so what about my question regarding the images? 22:26:30 Arnaud - they're there 22:26:30 I put the link in the logs 22:26:38 er, I put the link in the /topic *to* the logs :) 22:27:35 are you saying the answer to my question is in the logs? 22:31:12 tantek? sorry, I don't get it 22:38:08 http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/today has images 22:39:08 oh, that's what you meant! 22:39:13 ok, got it 22:39:22 thanks 22:39:42 that's really a gadget :) 22:39:44 looking good! :) 22:40:46 Arnaud: gadget, like "card", or "web intent", or "annotation" I find has expanded to mean anything and thus nothing. If I'm incorrect and you mean something specific and limited for "gadget", perhaps you can provide a URL to it (or create /gadget :) ) 22:42:09 jasnell has joined #social 22:47:56 tantek has joined #social 23:05:49 nicolagreco has joined #social 23:06:42 ShaneHudson has joined #social 23:12:36 tantek has joined #social 23:20:43 jasnell has joined #social 23:22:21 jasnell_ has joined #social 23:30:03 tantek_ has joined #social 23:36:12 bblfish has joined #social 23:53:15 jasnell has joined #social 23:59:21 jasnell has joined #social