13:25:48 RRSAgent has joined #dap 13:25:48 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/08/07-dap-irc 13:25:50 RRSAgent, make logs world 13:25:50 Zakim has joined #dap 13:25:52 Zakim, this will be DAP 13:25:52 ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 35 minutes 13:25:53 Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference 13:25:53 Date: 07 August 2014 13:26:12 fjh has changed the topic to: dap 3279 ; agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Aug/0007.html 13:26:17 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Aug/0007.html 13:26:38 Chair: Frederick_Hirsch 13:26:43 Present+ Frederick_Hirsch 13:27:19 Topic: Welcome, agenda review, scribe selection, announcements 13:58:32 UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started 13:58:39 +Lisa_DeLuca 13:58:40 Present+ Mars_Wichmann 13:58:50 Present+ Mays_Wichmann 13:58:51 LisaDeLuca_IBM has joined #dap 13:59:39 +??P9 13:59:46 anssik_ has joined #dap 13:59:59 Zakim, ??P9 is mats 14:00:00 +mats; got it 14:00:03 Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen 14:00:25 Present+ Lisa_DeLuca 14:00:51 +??P14 14:01:08 zakim, ??P14 isme 14:01:08 I don't understand '??P14 isme', anssik_ 14:01:10 +[IPcaller] 14:01:11 zakim, ipcaller is me 14:01:11 +fjh; got it 14:01:28 +gmandyam 14:01:34 zakim, ??P14 is me 14:01:35 +anssik_; got it 14:01:49 gmandyam has joined #dap 14:01:55 zakim, who is here? 14:01:55 On the phone I see Lisa_DeLuca, mats, anssik_, fjh, gmandyam 14:01:57 On IRC I see gmandyam, anssik_, LisaDeLuca_IBM, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, marcosc_, mats, richt, Josh_Soref___, mounir, slightlyoff, tobie, trackbot 14:02:24 Present- Mays_Wichmann 14:02:34 Present+ Mats_Wichmann 14:02:57 Present+ Giri_Mandyam 14:03:01 ScribeNick: fjh 14:03:29 Media Capture TF update on list (2 July): http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jul/0017.html 14:03:41 TPAC (27-31 Oct, Santa Clara) Registration now open, http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/ 14:03:45 Cathy_ has joined #dap 14:03:58 Topic: Minutes approval 14:04:25 Approve minutes from 26 June 2014 14:04:25 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jun/att-0116/minutes-2014-06-26.html 14:04:32 RESOLUTION: Minutes from 26 June 2014 are approved 14:04:41 Topic: Last Call conclusion and CR publication of HTML Media Capture, Light, Vibration 14:04:56 Last Call drafts of HTML Media Capture, Light, Vibration published, LC ended 24 July 2014 14:05:03 No last call comments on HTML Media Capture. 14:05:04 No last call comments on Light Events. 14:05:12 One Last Call Comment on Vibration API, see https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/43696/WD-vibration-20140619/2945 14:05:13 Proposed resolution: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Aug/0000.html 14:05:43 Proposed RESOLUTION: Adopt proposed resolution for LC-2945, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Aug/0000.html 14:06:11 RESOLUTION: Adopt proposed resolution for LC-2945, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Aug/0000.html 14:06:33 action: anssik to add resolution to LC-2945 to draft 14:06:34 Created ACTION-706 - Add resolution to lc-2945 to draft [on Anssi Kostiainen - due 2014-08-14]. 14:06:49 anssik: should it be a note 14:06:53 fjh: normative is better 14:06:55 +Cathy 14:07:50 fjh: here is response from Microsoft re Lisa comment http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Aug/0011.html 14:08:47 anssi: assume you aligning implementation with W3C 14:09:05 lisa: updated javascript bridge so shoud affect all across platform 14:09:26 … should be good for all realeases should go into Cordova 3.6, next month 14:09:35 s/releases/realeases/ 14:09:55 lisa: which should we tackle next 14:11:43 http://apache.markmail.org/search/?q=org.apache.incubator.callback-dev+list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.callback-dev+order%3Adate-backward+w3c#query:org.apache.incubator.callback-dev%20list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.callback-dev%20order%3Adate-backward%20w3c+page:1+mid:3qrirxhvzumzkyh2+state:results 14:11:45 fjh: think you might want to consider HTML Media Capture or Light Events, since stable and moving forward 14:11:57 lisa: HTML Media Capture would make sense, don’t have anything for Light 14:12:08 fjh: right, and we of course welcome feedback on battery 14:12:17 lisa: we have some concern about battery, here is link 14:12:19 http://plugins.cordova.io/#/package/org.awokenwell.proximity 14:13:19 fjh: Plan and changes for CR publications: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Aug/0001.html 14:14:57 RESOLUTION: Start 2 week CfC ending 21 August to publish CR drafts of HTML Media Capture, Ambient Light Events, and the Vibration API on 28 August, with details as noted in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Aug/0001.html 14:15:18 action: fjh to send CfC for CR for HTML Media Capture, Ambient Light Events, Vibration API 14:15:18 Created ACTION-707 - Send cfc for cr for html media capture, ambient light events, vibration api [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2014-08-14]. 14:15:26 fjh: suggest we stay with old process for now 14:17:00 zakim, who is here? 14:17:00 On the phone I see Lisa_DeLuca, mats, anssik_, fjh, gmandyam, Cathy 14:17:03 On IRC I see Cathy_, gmandyam, anssik, LisaDeLuca_IBM, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, marcosc_, mats, richt, Josh_Soref___, mounir, slightlyoff, tobie, trackbot 14:17:15 Present+ Cathy_Chan 14:19:32 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Aug/0012.html 14:20:15 Topic: Vibration Test updates 14:20:26 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jul/0052.html 14:20:52 some vibration tests are stil missing 14:21:14 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jul/0054.html 14:21:20 -gmandyam 14:21:48 anssik: I think we agreed he can write tests even though test facilitator as long as we get review, so I can ask him to write tests for those that are missing 14:21:53 fjh: yes, that is right 14:22:02 fjh: please ask him to do this 14:22:10 anssik: only three missing, one no longer relevant 14:22:32 anssik: I can review the tests 14:23:02 anssik: anssik to ask zhiqiang to complete vibration tests 14:23:18 action: anssik to ask zhiqiang to complete vibration tests 14:23:18 Created ACTION-708 - to ask zhiqiang to complete vibration tests [on Anssi Kostiainen - due 2014-08-14]. 14:23:38 anssik: firefox bug fixed as part of this test 14:23:56 fjh: yes, that was good http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jul/0052.html 14:24:17 Topic: Charter Update 14:24:23 fjh: I think we need Dom for this discussion 14:24:31 proposed Wake Lock addition: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jul/0055.html 14:24:39 WebIntents, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jul/0023.html (Paul Kinlan) 14:24:57 fjh: not sure what we can do now on this call, please review 14:25:23 anssik: webintents removed from WebApps charter in latest update 14:26:26 lgombos has joined #dap 14:28:19 anssik: what does this mean with respect to the Task Force 14:30:47 anssik: if it is not in the WebApps charter then I do not believe it makes sense to continue a joint task force, since there could be associated IPR obligations 14:30:54 s/anssik/fjh/ 14:31:15 fjh: that said, I think we can keep the Task Force list and have a Task force for the DAP WG if useful 14:31:35 fjh: we should involve Dom in discussions, he understands bigger chartering picture 14:31:42 fjh: across the groups 14:32:50 fjh: we already have WebIntents work in the DAP charter, given the interest probably makes sense to keep, maybe with some modifications 14:33:11 fjh: presumable we will review a draft charter before formally progressing to recharter 14:33:32 fjh: lets defer discussion until we have Dom on the call with more facts 14:34:00 Topic: Battery - Cordova Feedback 14:34:13 http://apache.markmail.org/search/?q=org.apache.incubator.callback-dev+list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.callback-dev+order%3Adate-backward+w3c#query:org.apache.incubator.callback-dev%20list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.callback-dev%20order%3Adate-backward%20w3c+page:1+mid:3qrirxhvzumzkyh2+state:results 14:34:21 lisa: we have some concern about battery, here is link 14:34:42 “The spec is flawed in that there's no way we could implement it as it 14:34:43 stands. The spec needs to be reworked to be more event driven and 14:34:44 asynchronous. Right now it's too much like device with everything up 14:34:44 front." 14:35:43 lisa: will follow up 14:35:59 fjh: a concrete proposal would be helpful 14:36:12 anssi: not sure what this means to be “more event driven" 14:36:52 anssi: we already have events in the spec 14:37:01 anssi: too high level comment, need concrete feedback 14:37:06 lisa: yes, will ask 14:37:55 fjh: this is the only remaining Cordova issue/feedback, correct? 14:37:57 lisa: yes 14:38:19 fjh: will raise issue on this one to track it 14:38:30 Topic: Open Battery Issues 14:38:56 review issues and status noted in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Aug/0006.html 14:39:13 ISSUE-164? 14:39:14 ISSUE-164 -- Correct default for charging time if unknown in battery -- open 14:39:14 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/164 14:39:43 fjh: can we close 14:39:49 anssik: ok 14:39:53 cathy: ok 14:39:58 close ISSUE-164 14:39:58 Closed ISSUE-164. 14:40:09 ISSUE-165? 14:40:09 ISSUE-165 -- Clarify language around multiple batteries -- open 14:40:09 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/165 14:40:25 fjh: can we close 14:40:28 anssik: yes 14:40:39 cathy: yes 14:40:44 close ISSUE=165 14:40:52 close ISSUE-165 14:40:52 Closed ISSUE-165. 14:40:58 ISSUE-166? 14:40:58 ISSUE-166 -- Should getBattery() always return the same promise? -- open 14:40:58 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/166 14:42:02 mounir’s answer http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jul/0006.html 14:42:38 fjh: we are treating as one virtual battery, so why would you ever have more than one battery manager? 14:43:33 fjh: this should stay open, no resolution 14:43:42 anssik: spec has not been updated 14:45:07 anssik: I will check and respond to mounir on the list 14:45:47 anssik: to follow upon on ISSUE-166 and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jul/0003.html 14:46:05 action: anssik to follow upon on ISSUE-166 and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jul/0003.html 14:46:05 Created ACTION-709 - Follow upon on issue-166 and http://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-device-apis/2014jul/0003.html [on Anssi Kostiainen - due 2014-08-14]. 14:47:10 fjh: we need a concrete proposal so we can be clear on what we agree to. One Promise, one BatteryManager? 14:47:39 anssik: no argument that BatteryManager should be same instance 14:48:10 fjh: why does it matter whether promise is same or not? 14:48:14 anssi: comparision? 14:48:29 anssi: this may be a minor issue 14:48:33 fjh: need to resolve it 14:49:06 ISSUE-167? 14:49:06 ISSUE-167 -- Should Promises be used in Battery API -- open 14:49:06 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/167 14:50:04 fjh: we were accomodating the feedback to use promises uniformly, but maybe that was a mistake 14:50:52 anssik: need opportunity to prompt user before getting battery - advantage of promises 14:51:10 anssik: but slight advantage of having data avaialble syncnronouslly 14:51:28 anssik: first access to battery manager slower than subsequent times 14:51:49 https://twitter.com/ebidel/status/494963550683533312 14:51:50 fjh: I thought advantage was usability for code writing, given potential complexity of nested call backs 14:52:59 anssik: true but not used that way in this API so not relevant, since only giving battery manager handler instance, not for the events 14:53:10 anssik: not used here as they are primarily designed 14:55:03 anssik: google concern is performance 14:55:17 fjh: what about web components? 14:55:26 https://gist.github.com/ebidel/d9c591d77b4c2b68c347 14:57:11 anssi: have an implementation for old implementation and for the new 14:57:24 fjh: do we have measurements for the old implementation? 14:57:29 https://gist.github.com/rwaldron/850590359d298e35bc61 14:57:44 lgombos has joined #dap 14:58:31 fjh: look there is long startup time on old design as well as new for desktop 14:58:45 fjh: something like object instantiation 14:58:56 fjh: not sure it makes sense for us to analyzie in real time 15:01:04 anssik: should we publish 15:01:18 fjh: think we need to look at some of the bigger issues first 15:02:08 ISSUE-168? 15:02:08 ISSUE-168 -- getBattery() vs. requestBattery() pattern -- open 15:02:08 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/168 15:03:14 anssik: I can summarize issues on the list 15:04:28 fjh: first api was simpler so why not use that? what is the real problem at issue? 15:05:43 anssik: multiprocess but we’ve heard both ways 15:09:39 -anssik_ 15:10:06 +??P14 15:10:08 anssik: will send summary to list of technical issues and key points 15:10:27 I can try to summarize on the list what I gather as pros and cons for both the designs 15:10:50 fjh: will suggest going back to original design, ask why not, simplest 15:11:48 anssik: issue of dealing with conflicting implementations, google shipping behind run time flag in canary 15:12:01 fjh: ok so lets take this to the list 15:12:36 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/168 15:14:10 fjh: anssi, I think you need to look at this offline and talk to mounir 15:14:32 action: anssik to look at ISSUE-168 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/168 15:14:33 Created ACTION-710 - Look at issue-168 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/168 [on Anssi Kostiainen - due 2014-08-14]. 15:15:54 Topic: Action Review 15:16:05 ACTION-704? 15:16:05 ACTION-704 -- Lisa Seacat DeLuca to Follow up re closing january cordova feedback -- due 2014-07-03 -- OPEN 15:16:05 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/704 15:16:14 close ACTION-704 15:16:14 Closed ACTION-704. 15:16:24 ACTION-705? 15:16:24 ACTION-705 -- Anssi Kostiainen to Add warning to Battery API that (naive) implementation of API could negatively affect battery life -- due 2014-08-11 -- OPEN 15:16:24 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/705 15:18:12 fjh: can defer, will leave open for now, will probably be resolved with other fixes 15:18:33 close ACTION-700 15:18:33 Closed ACTION-700. 15:18:55 close ACTION-702 15:18:55 Closed ACTION-702. 15:19:02 Topic: Cordova next steps 15:19:14 lisa: HTML Media Capture makes sense, even if it is stable 15:19:30 anssik: might be different than plugins 15:19:42 anssik: might be a challenge 15:24:05 -Cathy 15:24:07 -Lisa_DeLuca 15:24:07 -mats 15:24:12 -??P14 15:24:32 lisa: can look at it, will send a message to the list about any difficulties 15:24:46 fjh: good to get an idea, can then decide what to do next 15:24:52 Topic: Other Business 15:25:18 fjh: Anssik can you please talk to mounir, let’s see if we can understand the core issues, get concrete proposals for battery 15:25:43 fjh: what can we simplify 15:25:56 mounir, if you are lurking on the IRC feel free to participate in the discussion 15:26:10 fjh: next call scheduled for 21 August expect we will discuss the charter if Dom is back 15:26:18 s/mounir, if you are lurking on the IRC feel free to participate in the discussion// 15:26:26 Topic: Adjourn 15:26:30 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:26:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/08/07-dap-minutes.html fjh 15:27:39 -fjh 15:27:40 UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended 15:27:40 Attendees were Lisa_DeLuca, mats, fjh, gmandyam, anssik_, Cathy 16:06:40 Present- Mars_Wichmann 16:07:58 rrsagent, generate minutes 16:07:58 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/08/07-dap-minutes.html fjh 16:08:34 s/realeases/releases/ 16:08:51 s/all realeases/all releases/ 16:09:08 s;s/releases/*;; 16:10:01 s/close ISSUE=165// 16:10:23 rrsagent, generate minutes 16:10:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/08/07-dap-minutes.html fjh 16:37:45 lgombos has joined #dap 16:39:26 Zakim has left #dap 17:08:40 lgombos has joined #dap