13:45:12 RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y 13:45:12 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/08/01-mobile-a11y-irc 13:45:14 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:45:14 Zakim has joined #mobile-a11y 13:45:16 Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF 13:45:16 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_MATF()10:00AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes 13:45:17 Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 13:45:17 Date: 01 August 2014 13:46:04 kw has joined #mobile-a11y 13:47:17 Agenda+ New Mobile WCAG Techniques & Best Practices survey – continue to review survey 13:47:18 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/New_WCAG_2.0_Techniques 13:47:20 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140512_survey/results 13:47:21 Agenda+ Next Steps – next meeting 13:48:24 regrets+ Brent_Shiiver 13:48:39 jeanne has joined #mobile-a11y 13:48:43 regrets+ Brent_Shiver 13:50:19 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2014Jul/0034.html 13:51:08 WAI_MATF()10:00AM has now started 13:51:15 + +1.978.760.aaaa 13:51:40 chair: Kimberly_Patch 13:54:37 +Kim_Patch 13:56:57 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/WCAG_2.0_Techniques_Applicable_to_Mobile_without_Changes 13:59:50 +Jeanne 14:00:16 tbabinszki has joined #mobile-a11y 14:02:26 Jan has joined #mobile-a11y 14:02:30 + +1.408.425.aabb 14:02:52 zakim, aaaa is KathyW 14:02:52 +KathyW; got it 14:03:06 +[IPcaller] 14:03:07 zakim, aabb is MikeS 14:03:07 +MikeS; got it 14:03:20 zakim, who is here? 14:03:20 On the phone I see KathyW, Kim_Patch, Jeanne, MikeS, [IPcaller] 14:03:22 On IRC I see Jan, tbabinszki, jeanne, kw, Zakim, RRSAgent, KimPatch, MichaelC, trackbot 14:03:25 zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan 14:03:25 +Jan; got it 14:03:43 +TomB 14:04:50 regrets + Alan, Gavin 14:06:38 wuwei has joined #mobile-a11y 14:06:42 Thurs 11 ET works for me too 14:08:13 +WuWei 14:11:55 scribe: jeanne 14:12:55 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Technique_Development_Assignments 14:13:47 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/WCAG_2.0_Techniques_Applicable_to_Mobile_without_Changes 14:14:15 KW: We are in the process of identifying Techniques that are applicable to mobile 14:14:37 ... I need someone to verify that the native app techniques are labeled. 14:14:54 MS: I'd be happy to work with someone on this. 14:15:27 KW: We have the technique listed, but we need to say whether it applies to Native Web and/or Native Apps and put it in the column. 14:17:15 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/WCAG_2.0_Techniques_Applicable_to_Mobile_without_Changes 14:18:23 Mike has joined #mobile-a11y 14:18:50 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/WCAG_2.0_Techniques_Applicable_to_Mobile_without_Changes#CSS_Applicable_to_Mobile_without_Changes 14:19:27 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Technique_Development_Assignments 14:19:55 KW: This link is for WCAG TEchnique writing assignments. 14:20:17 ... If there are techniques that you want to work on, put your name on it, or let me know 14:20:29 ... we will talk about more next week 14:20:45 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140512_survey/results#xq29 14:20:48 agenda? 14:20:57 zakim, take up item 1 14:20:57 agendum 1. "New Mobile WCAG Techniques & Best Practices survey – continue to review survey" taken up [from KimPatch] 14:21:10 kW: We are starting at #29 on the survey 14:21:19 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140512_survey/results#xq29 14:22:29 [KW reads comments in the survey] 14:23:10 MS: It is the actionable nature of it, rather just than it is a link. 14:23:33 ... in modern design, text is being used without any indication that it is actionable. 14:23:55 KW: Also knowing whether something can be swiped, it is not clear that you can go from page to page 14:24:27 MS: This should be a separate technique, you just have to intuit that there is something in another page to get via swipe. 14:26:00 JR: This is too vague, if the platform UI metaphors are not doing a good job of identifying actionable elements. The platform has to make sense of semantic code. Now, if it is custom work, then the onus is on the designer 14:26:41 KW: This would be very hard to be testable. Even at Advisory, it would be difficult to be testable. 14:27:15 JR: My suggestion is to make the Technique: Do not suppress the platform's behavior of distinguishing links. 14:28:02 ... then we could have another Technique to say that if you do suppress the platform behavior, then you have to make it distinguishable -- and that would be hard to test. 14:30:11 MS: I'm concerned about saying not to break the platform behavior. I have worked on projects where we improved the plaform behavior, making it more accessible than the platform. 14:30:39 ... Clearly defined role, make sure the platform renders it correctly. 14:31:56 JR: I agree, I just think that they are different techniques. One advisory, don't suppress the platform behavior, another advisory, that if you do, make it distinguishable. 14:32:12 MS: I think they should be sufficient 14:32:32 JR: They go under WCAG 1.3.1 14:32:50 ... but I am still concerned about testability of the custom 14:33:14 KW: We do have a technique about not relying on color alone. We could add to that as a sufficient technique' 14:35:48 RESOLUTION: An advisory technique for not supressing the platform behavior of links and other actionable elements; and modify the Technique for 1.3.1 about not relying on color; and look at a new Technique for identifying available swiping gestures 14:36:26 Topic: Survey #29 Touch Target sizes 14:37:58 KW: it could fall under keyboard access -- being able to activate an element 14:38:24 JR: That's using a keyboard, I think it would be confusing 14:38:57 MS: Keyboard would not require the object to be large enough. 14:39:33 KW: WCaG is oriented toward mouse and keyboard, it really belongs with IndieUI. 14:40:27 MS: Then there are also the devices where you don't actually touch, like gestures over a touch target like the WII or Kinect. 14:41:03 ... Could tell people to follow the platform guidelines 14:41:46 KW: We could say that this is an important accessibility issue and it doesn't fit under WcAG. 14:42:41 MS: When we were working with voiceover, we thought when you get close to it and then swipe, that would be sufficient when items were really small. 14:43:54 JR: I think WCAG knew that zoom was coming and then it would not be an issue 14:45:28 Jeanne: I do think this is still an accessibility issue – minimum sizes. I'm not sure that zoom adequately covers it. It's an issue on the desktop as well. People with different kinds of mobility have a very difficult time with small objects. 14:45:31 Kw: Why not make it a best practice 14:46:19 Jeanne – I think it's a blocker for people, there are so many places were zoom doesn't apply particularly in native apps that I think we should have it. 14:46:56 KW: relying on zoom is a high cognitive load. 14:48:28 Jeanne: important for us to keep a list of things we think should be in a future version of WCAG 14:50:32 RESOLUTION: Mark this as a new possible WCAG success criteria as sufficient, and temporarily as an Advisory under 1.4.4 Resize Text. 14:50:55 topic: Survey #30 14:51:24 s/Survey #30/Survey #30 Inactive Space around active elements 14:51:34 KW reads comments from survey 14:52:39 MS: Use case of a weather table when there is no padding. 14:53:04 KW: the problem is that people can accidently touch two at once. 14:53:31 MS: The solution is #29 -- not 30. 14:53:46 JR: 29 takes care of it by virtue of putting a minimum. 14:55:51 MS: Should we have any techniques about addressing blank or dead space. There is no technique or recommendation that there is dead space and that there are small elements elsewhere in the space. This is especially important for tablets, rather than rubbing finger around the screen and nothing happening. 14:56:59 TB: If you don't have blank spaces properly represented can be problematic. But I think when the controls stretch out until the next element, that can increase accessibility for blind. 14:57:56 RESOLUTION: to drop #30 in favor of #29 14:58:09 topic: Next meeting 14:58:22 Please select a technique that you want to work on 14:58:51 ... we are trying to work more asynchronously to accommodate the people who have trouble with specific meeting times. 14:58:53 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Technique_Development_Assignments 14:59:11 ... people will be able to work on techniques, even if they can't attend the meeting. 15:00:13 KW: Looking at the individual technques, there are notes from the people who reviewed it. It should not be restrictive, if there are thing to add, you can. 15:00:45 Josh and Andrew are going to attend an upcoming meeting to talk about how to write techniques 15:00:46 -KathyW 15:00:47 -MikeS 15:00:47 -TomB 15:00:51 -Jan 15:00:57 -WuWei 15:01:12 -Kim_Patch 15:03:06 KP: The next meeting is Friday 8 August. The following meeting will be 14 August, at the new time which is 11:00 US EAstern, 8:00 US Pacific and 1500 UTC 15:03:16 -Jeanne 15:03:18 WAI_MATF()10:00AM has ended 15:03:18 Attendees were +1.978.760.aaaa, Kim_Patch, Jeanne, +1.408.425.aabb, KathyW, MikeS, Jan, TomB, WuWei 15:03:29 rrsagent, make minutes 15:03:29 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/08/01-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jeanne 15:03:47 rrsagent, make logs public 15:04:49 regrets- Brent_Shiiver 15:05:12 present- +1.978.760.aaaa 15:05:25 present- +1.408.425.aabb 15:06:07 rrsagent, make minutes 15:06:07 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/08/01-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jeanne 17:34:54 kathyw has joined #mobile-a11y 17:41:33 kw has joined #mobile-a11y 18:02:11 kw has joined #mobile-a11y 18:07:42 wuwei has joined #mobile-a11y 18:36:06 wwu has joined #mobile-a11y 19:14:01 wuwei has joined #mobile-a11y 20:19:27 kw has joined #mobile-a11y 20:21:59 kathyw has joined #mobile-a11y 20:29:16 kw has joined #mobile-a11y 21:09:47 wuwei has joined #mobile-a11y 21:51:40 wuwei has joined #mobile-a11y 22:01:32 wuwei has joined #mobile-a11y