IRC log of ld4lt on 2014-07-31

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:50:47 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ld4lt
12:50:47 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/07/31-ld4lt-irc
12:51:02 [daveL]
chair: Dave lewis
12:51:08 [daveL]
present+ DaveLewis
12:51:38 [daveL]
Meeting: LD4LT community group call
12:51:50 [daveL]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ld4lt/2014Jul/0028.html
12:54:02 [fsasaki]
present+ fsasaki
12:55:04 [tflati]
present+ tlfati
12:55:07 [tflati]
present+ tflati
12:55:17 [tflati]
present- tlfati
12:58:47 [Ali_h_vahid]
Ali_h_vahid has joined #ld4lt
13:00:04 [jgracia]
jgracia has joined #ld4lt
13:00:48 [chriLi]
chriLi has joined #ld4lt
13:00:48 [pennyl]
pennyl has joined #ld4lt
13:00:53 [Tcarrasco]
Tcarrasco has joined #ld4lt
13:00:59 [rnavigli]
rnavigli has joined #ld4lt
13:01:57 [chriLi]
present+ chriLi
13:02:21 [Victor]
Victor has joined #ld4lt
13:03:05 [tflati]
tflati has joined #ld4lt
13:03:07 [Ali_h_vahid]
present+ Ali_H_Vahid
13:03:38 [renat]
renat has joined #ld4lt
13:03:40 [renat]
present+ renat
13:03:45 [rnavigli]
present+ rnavigli
13:03:46 [daveL]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ld4lt/2014Jul/0028.html
13:03:49 [tflati]
present+ tflati
13:03:51 [fsasaki]
topic: call intro
13:04:04 [daveL]
scribe: tflati
13:04:31 [fsasaki]
topic: actions
13:04:38 [tflati_]
tflati_ has joined #ld4lt
13:04:40 [fsasaki]
action-11?
13:04:40 [trackbot]
action-11 -- David Lewis to Gather info on how to provide more detailed mapping from meta-share to dcat -- due 2014-07-24 -- OPEN
13:04:40 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/community/ld4lt/track/actions/11
13:04:52 [daveL]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ld4lt/2014Jul/0033.html
13:04:52 [tflati_]
present+ tflati
13:04:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/31-ld4lt-minutes.html fsasaki
13:05:13 [jgracia]
present+ jgacia
13:05:28 [daveL]
http://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-dcat/#vocabulary-overview
13:05:34 [tflati_]
Dave: there are still 3 points left to discuss from the META-SHARE metamodel
13:05:46 [fsasaki]
present+ victor, serge
13:06:00 [fsasaki]
present+ penny
13:06:14 [fsasaki]
present+ Tcarrasco
13:06:32 [daveL]
https://www.w3.org/community/ld4lt/wiki/DCAT_MetaShare_Mapping#Make_LanguageResource_a_DCAT_Dataset
13:06:33 [jgracia]
dave: dataset corresponds closely with language resource
13:06:38 [fsasaki]
present+ martha
13:06:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/31-ld4lt-minutes.html fsasaki
13:07:11 [tflati_]
dave: some of some metashare properties could be replaced by some dcat properties
13:07:38 [tflati_]
geographic coverage, time coverage, etc. they all have a corresponding property
13:07:58 [tflati_]
penny: about making the language resource
13:08:45 [jgracia]
penny: ms already have a distribution module
13:09:30 [tflati_]
penny: for example the download URL, etc.
13:10:41 [tflati_]
dave: how deep should the separation be made? Are you trying to encourage more than just separation?
13:11:06 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/31-ld4lt-minutes.html fsasaki
13:11:21 [Tcarrasco]
q+
13:11:27 [tflati_]
penny: at the conceptual level, i think that usually there are different forms with different licenses
13:11:41 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ld4lt
13:11:47 [fsasaki]
q+ Tcarrasco
13:11:51 [jgracia]
penny: frequently diferent distributions in MS are simply same resource under different licensees
13:12:10 [tflati_]
victor: but they should both allow for distribution
13:13:29 [tflati_]
penny: at least now there is a mix up with dublin core etc.
13:15:35 [tflati_]
dave: we covered both the two points about DCAT
13:17:12 [Tcarrasco]
Data access: record vs. database - URI local vs. remote (file and http schemes)
13:18:11 [tflati_]
penny: i never used SKOS concepts, but I have it like for any classification schema
13:18:26 [tflati_]
not sure how SKOS deals with different dimensions of classification
13:19:13 [tflati_]
we had also a discussion with Marta about subclasses of Corpus and there is no consensus about lexicon or other things, depending several criteria
13:19:29 [tflati_]
the linguality dimension (mono-, bi-, multi-lingual)
13:19:42 [tflati_]
the media type of Corpus (audio, text, etc.)
13:19:57 [tflati_]
one could end up with different taxonomies depending on the used criteria
13:20:35 [Tcarrasco]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ld4lt/2014Jul/0024.html
13:21:32 [tflati_]
dave: there is not a good model of what a schema should be. Hard to say in a definitive way what is a subclass of what.
13:22:05 [tflati_]
roberto: when we encoded babelnet, we had the issue to see various options. For us SKOS is okay, up to a certain extent
13:22:16 [tflati_]
if you're interested in just a taxonomy SKOS is okay
13:22:44 [tflati_]
otherwise if you want better relations, SKOS might be limited
13:24:13 [tflati_]
we just decided to reduce the granularity of the relations
13:24:33 [tflati_]
we kept the narrower and broader properties for the taxonomic aspect
13:24:42 [tflati_]
and related for all other properties
13:25:15 [tflati_]
jgracia: I think that META-SHARE does not need more expressive properties than those
13:25:28 [tflati_]
Roberto: in this way we also limit variability
13:25:44 [tflati_]
penny: SKOS should be okay
13:26:38 [tflati_]
dave: moving this forward, do we want to separate
13:27:07 [tflati_]
penny: text type, genre, video type would be perfect for the SKOS schema, we could add to them
13:27:31 [tflati_]
dave: yes, i agree. it is part of the issue. There is an involving consensus for the definition of the core
13:27:53 [fsasaki]
action: penny to capture list of parameters that may be relevant for a skos classification
13:27:53 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-12 - Capture list of parameters that may be relevant for a skos classification [on Penny Labropoulou - due 2014-08-07].
13:29:09 [tflati_]
jgracia: the added value of using SKOS rather than OWL?
13:29:15 [tflati_]
dave: you can use both
13:29:16 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/31-ld4lt-minutes.html fsasaki
13:30:22 [tflati_]
sometimes one is not sure whether something is strictly a subclass of what
13:30:51 [daveL]
action: pennyl to identify which properties and classes could move to a skos-based conceptual schema
13:30:51 [trackbot]
Error finding 'pennyl'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/community/ld4lt/track/users>.
13:30:58 [tflati_]
jorge: narrower could be interpreted in a more loose sense, without being that strict
13:31:11 [tflati_]
present+ pennyl
13:31:25 [jgracia]
so more flexibility in SKOS not commiting to OWL semantics
13:31:29 [fsasaki]
topic: meta-share discussion
13:32:04 [fsasaki]
ack T
13:32:32 [tflati_]
thomas: the access of a record vs. the whole database
13:32:45 [tflati_]
and also the aspect of the access to the schema
13:33:16 [tflati_]
these two aspects have to be considered, also
13:33:25 [tflati_]
dave: this should be included in the distribution module
13:33:43 [tflati_]
because it depends on the media type you are using
13:34:08 [tflati_]
for example if you have a TM you could use a fragment identifier to make the work easily
13:35:33 [tflati_]
thomas: if data can be downloaded, the distribution aspect breaks up because from the application point of view everything is a URI
13:36:11 [tflati_]
penny: this also connects to waht i was discussing with Marta: language resource taxonomy
13:36:34 [tflati_]
the 4 classes of Corpus
13:36:56 [tflati_]
and also a second dimension: the media of resource types
13:37:10 [tflati_]
to MS these are not really subclasses, rather they are parts of a corpus
13:37:18 [tflati_]
that is the reason we called text corpus
13:37:44 [tflati_]
the idea is that you try to put information that describes better the dimension of the corpus into a text file
13:38:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/31-ld4lt-minutes.html fsasaki
13:38:59 [tflati_]
we might add another class, multilingualcorpus
13:39:13 [tflati_]
the relation subclass should be ispartof, actually
13:39:35 [tflati_]
should be "contains"
13:39:53 [tflati_]
dave: in DCAT you have a Dataset which can have multiple distributions
13:40:09 [Tcarrasco]
We should use the Media Types terminology http://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/media-types.xhtml
13:40:12 [tflati_]
a dataset if a collection of one or more resources
13:40:38 [tflati_]
we might need to use "contains" or "collection"
13:40:44 [tflati_]
of the dcterms collection
13:40:56 [tflati_]
for container of different resources
13:41:22 [tflati_]
marta: it was not my fault to introduce these classes
13:42:11 [tflati_]
the parts should not be seen as collection, but just as a model of having different media types
13:42:18 [tflati_]
not different files
13:43:20 [Tcarrasco]
Multilingual Dataset Format (muset) - http://dragoman.org/muset
13:43:29 [tflati_]
the corpus is something, how you physically store it is another thing
13:43:45 [tflati_]
this has nothing to do with the implementation/format of your dataset
13:44:25 [tflati_]
dave: terminology is important, one could easily misunderstanf
13:45:15 [tflati_]
thomas: we should use the existing media type terminology
13:45:23 [tflati_]
for example text would be "plain"
13:45:54 [tflati_]
otherwise we have to reinvent it
13:45:54 [chriLi]
I have to leave ...
13:46:45 [tflati_]
we should build on top of IANA
13:47:07 [tflati_]
penny: text is "text", not "plain"
13:47:28 [tflati_]
in the upper level
13:50:13 [Tcarrasco]
according to http://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/media-types.xhtm is "plain text" called "plain" -
13:50:35 [Tcarrasco]
"text" is a whole category - http://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/media-types.xhtml#text
13:52:50 [tflati_]
I have problems in my internet connection, could you scribe at my place for the next few moments, please?
13:55:27 [daveL]
marta: describes strategy on mapping elements of original meta-share schema into RDF
13:55:49 [Tcarrasco]
in http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5147 is called "text/plain"
13:56:16 [daveL]
.. in response to vistors question on whther to include 'flat' license attributes in current model, or structure these in ODRL
13:57:45 [daveL]
jorge: this is slightly different from victors questions, since ODRL can represent rules that cannot be represented from the current properties
13:58:01 [daveL]
marta: asks difference between cc model and odrl
13:58:06 [tflati_]
I am back, thanks dave
13:58:39 [daveL]
victor: odrl is more expressive and extensible
13:59:19 [daveL]
scribe: tflati
13:59:37 [tflati_]
victor: maybe not complete, but extensible and flexible for sure
14:01:08 [jgracia]
you have a nice example of ODRL & MS here https://www.w3.org/community/ld4lt/wiki/Licensing_information
14:01:36 [tflati_]
victor: the same resource could have different permissions, depending on the distribution media
14:02:35 [tflati_]
jorge: as for me it is complicated to represent this in ODRL (but only for the machine) and can be done only once
14:02:43 [tflati_]
victor: i completely agree
14:03:38 [jgracia]
but with content negotiation you can reach the simple readable information for humans
14:04:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/31-ld4lt-minutes.html fsasaki
14:04:28 [fsasaki]
topic: aob
14:04:48 [fsasaki]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ld4lt/2014Jul/0034.html
14:06:16 [tflati_]
dave: just one issue: thanks Tiziano and Roberto for the report on the META-SHARE through the group
14:07:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/31-ld4lt-minutes.html fsasaki
14:07:57 [daveL]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:07:57 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/31-ld4lt-minutes.html daveL
14:08:22 [fsasaki]
adjourned
14:08:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/31-ld4lt-minutes.html fsasaki
15:35:03 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ld4lt