15:49:36 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dnt
15:49:36 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/07/30-dnt-irc
15:49:38 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:49:40 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be TRACK
15:49:40 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
15:49:41 <trackbot> Meeting: Tracking Protection Working Group Teleconference
15:49:41 <trackbot> Date: 30 July 2014
15:53:40 <npdoty> chair: justin
15:54:35 <npdoty> regrets+ johnsimpson, sidstamm, chris_m, dsinger, schunter
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15:59:06 <Zakim> T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM has now started
15:59:14 <Zakim> +Jack_Hobaugh
15:59:20 <Zakim> +hefferjr
15:59:25 <Zakim> +Fielding
15:59:33 <Zakim> +Carl_Cargill
15:59:39 <Carl_Cargill> Carl_Cargill has joined #dnt
16:00:11 <WaltMichel> WaltMichel has joined #DNT
16:00:18 <Zakim> +Wendy
16:00:40 <Zakim> +eberkower
16:00:59 <eberkower> Zakim, please mute me
16:01:00 <Zakim> eberkower should now be muted
16:01:11 <Zakim> +WaltMichel
16:01:15 <Zakim> +npdoty
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16:01:50 <Zakim> +justin
16:02:11 <justin> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:02:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see Jack_Hobaugh, hefferjr, Fielding, Carl_Cargill, Wendy, eberkower (muted), WaltMichel, npdoty, justin
16:02:30 <moneill2> moneill2 has joined #dnt
16:02:39 <vinay> vinay has joined #dnt
16:02:47 <npdoty> scribenick: npdoty
16:02:51 <Zakim> +Chris_Pedigo
16:03:00 <npdoty> justin: short call
16:03:04 <ChrisPedigoOPA> ChrisPedigoOPA has joined #dnt
16:03:09 <Zakim> +RichardWeaver
16:03:12 <Zakim> +vinay
16:03:12 <npdoty> justin: next week we want to take up the market research / audience measurement
16:03:32 <Richard_comScore> Richard_comScore has joined #dnt
16:03:34 <npdoty> ... authors comfortable with their existing proposal, take up that discussion starting next week
16:03:44 <Zakim> +kulick
16:03:52 <WileyS> WileyS has joined #dnt
16:03:53 <npdoty> ... the week of August 10th, no call as at least all the chairs are on vacation
16:04:18 <npdoty> ... only a handful of issues still to deal with. will send around another potential batch closing email
16:04:28 <Zakim> +WileyS
16:04:40 <npdoty> ... will send around, just let us know if you don't want any of those closed
16:04:47 <npdoty> topic: "tracking" in compliance
16:04:50 <npdoty> issue-203?
16:04:50 <trackbot> issue-203 -- Use of "tracking" in third-party compliance -- open
16:04:50 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/issues/203
16:04:53 <adrianba> adrianba has joined #dnt
16:05:10 <npdoty> justin: discussed previously. fielding working on a proposal for restructuring
16:05:15 <Zakim> + +1.323.253.aaaa
16:05:16 <npdoty> ... should have that for us next week
16:05:17 <npdoty> q+
16:05:37 <fielding> ack npdoty
16:05:53 <Ari> Ari has joined #dnt
16:05:54 <wseltzer> npdoty: I made the changes to the compliance document
16:05:56 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
16:06:07 <adrianba> zakim, [Microsoft] is me
16:06:07 <Zakim> +adrianba; got it
16:06:08 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:06:09 <wseltzer> ... when you are tracking/not tracking, qualifiers, examples
16:06:12 <justin> npdoty: I've updated the spec to include TSVs along with examples in the different subsections.
16:06:14 <robsherman> robsherman has joined #dnt
16:06:23 <moneill2> zakim, [IPCaller] is me
16:06:24 <Zakim> +moneill2; got it
16:06:49 <Zakim> +robsherman
16:07:17 <npdoty> justin: look at what npdoty has done, though expect it doesn't address fielding's issue
16:07:20 <justin> q?
16:07:38 <npdoty> topic: issue-97 link shorteners
16:07:43 <justin> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Privacy/TPWG/Change_Proposals_on_link_shorteners_and_ID_providers
16:07:51 <Zakim> +[FTC]
16:08:06 <npdoty> justin: have a consolidated proposal from walter, mike and nick
16:08:10 <npdoty> ... document is currently silent
16:08:25 <vincent> vincent has joined #dnt
16:08:27 <justin> q?
16:08:29 <npdoty> ... less specific to url shorteners exactly
16:08:37 <npdoty> ... any questions or concerns about that language?
16:08:53 <npdoty> ... unless there are any friendly amendments
16:09:02 <npdoty> ... would go to a Call for Objections on that tonight
16:09:10 <justin> q?
16:09:20 <npdoty> ... feel free to send comments to the list, if any adjustments should be made
16:09:20 <Zakim> +vincent
16:09:25 <npdoty> topic: deidentification
16:09:32 <justin> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Privacy/TPWG/Change_Proposal_Deidentification
16:10:15 <npdoty> justin: sadly, we don't have dsinger on the call today. not sure yet about how to merge with roy's
16:10:56 <npdoty> ... two seem firm. article 29 proposal from vincent; expert review/safe harbor from jack
16:11:13 <npdoty> ... not sure yet about merging david and roy
16:11:23 <justin> q?
16:11:36 <npdoty> ... maybe that would also satisfy proposers from EFF (heard from Lee)
16:11:39 <npdoty> q+
16:11:53 <Zakim> +Brooks
16:11:55 <Brooks> Brooks has joined #dnt
16:12:30 <npdoty> ack npdoty
16:12:39 <fielding> maybe definitions for identified, de-identified, re-identified, and anonymous?
16:12:54 <moneill2> +q
16:12:54 <vincent> is it similar to the green/yellow/red states?
16:13:31 <colsen> colsen has joined #dnt
16:13:46 <npdoty> npdoty: suggestion of having two terms, "deidentified" and "aggregate", where deidentified requires the three-step contract requirement but aggregate doesn't because it's so far from being identifiable, like "50%"
16:13:49 <WileyS> "Linked" is debatable in the Yellow State
16:14:09 <justin> ack mon
16:14:40 <npdoty> justin: is there a similarity to previous red/yellow/green proposals about which can be released and which wouldn't
16:15:09 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:15:17 <walter> zakim, ipcaller is me
16:15:17 <Zakim> +walter; got it
16:15:30 <Zakim> +[FTC.a]
16:16:21 <npdoty> justin: test for "deidentified" (in dsinger proposal or current text) already. even aggregate numbers can enable reidentification
16:16:55 <npdoty> moneill2: if you delete the data and only return the count of scottish people, then there should be no reidentification concern
16:17:19 <npdoty> justin: just saying "aggregate" doesn't solve the problem (like small groups)
16:17:34 <npdoty> ... would be interested in the exact terms of the text proposal for this super-de-identified state
16:17:55 <justin> q?
16:18:35 <WileyS> We could have an entire working group on deidentification - we're going too deep here.  Not that its not needed, but too large an issue to solve here.
16:19:16 <npdoty> justin: encourage people to talk more on the list and develop one or two more consolidated proposals
16:19:44 <justin> q?
16:19:47 <WileyS> I would recommend we stay high-level (like Roy's proposal) and drill down into the details in another forum/pass/working group.
16:19:52 <fielding> I have not seen any example given where the data could be re-identified after it meets my proposed definition, since that would imply it does not meet my definition. ;-)
16:20:13 <justin> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Privacy/TPWG/Change_Proposal_Remove_personalization_prohibition
16:20:17 <npdoty> ... per Shane, this can be a very complicated area. argument might be for a simpler description in our text
16:20:21 <npdoty> topic: Personalization
16:21:21 <npdoty> justin: personalization proposals last summer, perhaps related to lack of confidence in the signal issue, to imply that some personalization is allowed even when a DNT signal is present
16:21:40 <npdoty> ... is there a proposal to include a "trackless advertising" term in the document?
16:22:06 <npdoty> ... if that's the intent, it would be good to clarify these proposals
16:22:33 <npdoty> ... there was a lot of discussion about that last summer [issue-215]
16:22:43 <justin> q?
16:22:52 <npdoty> q+
16:23:56 <Chapell> Chapell has joined #DNT
16:23:58 <npdoty> ack npdoty
16:24:39 <npdoty> npdoty: is the intent to just clarify editorially where restrictions are present? or a change from what the current text currently prohibits?
16:24:59 <Zakim> +Chapell
16:25:34 <justin> q?
16:26:20 <npdoty> justin: it might be that 236 is that sort of editorial thing, and that 234 is the intent for removing personalization prohibition
16:26:29 <npdoty> JackHobaugh: yeah, that sounds right
16:26:56 <npdoty> justin: will send email, don't need edits yet
16:27:09 <npdoty> topic: wrap-up
16:27:21 <justin> q?
16:27:23 <npdoty> justin: decision about data append was announced, but text needs to be sent around before next week
16:27:27 <Zakim> -[FTC.a]
16:27:30 <npdoty> ... quick call. anything else to discuss?
16:27:35 <Zakim> -RichardWeaver
16:27:36 <Zakim> - +1.323.253.aaaa
16:27:36 <Zakim> -hefferjr
16:27:37 <Zakim> -adrianba
16:27:37 <Zakim> -[FTC]
16:27:38 <Zakim> -Chris_Pedigo
16:27:38 <Zakim> -Brooks
16:27:38 <Zakim> -justin
16:27:38 <Zakim> -Jack_Hobaugh
16:27:39 <Zakim> -moneill2
16:27:39 <Zakim> -vinay
16:27:40 <Zakim> -npdoty
16:27:40 <Zakim> -robsherman
16:27:42 <Zakim> -Chapell
16:27:42 <Zakim> -Carl_Cargill
16:27:43 <Zakim> -walter
16:27:43 <Zakim> -vincent
16:27:43 <Zakim> -kulick
16:27:44 <Zakim> -Wendy
16:27:44 <Zakim> -WileyS
16:28:01 <npdoty> Zakim, list attendees
16:28:01 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Jack_Hobaugh, hefferjr, Fielding, Carl_Cargill, Wendy, eberkower, WaltMichel, npdoty, justin, Chris_Pedigo, RichardWeaver, vinay, kulick,
16:28:04 <Zakim> ... WileyS, +1.323.253.aaaa, adrianba, moneill2, robsherman, [FTC], vincent, Brooks, walter, Chapell
16:28:09 <npdoty> rrsagent, please draft the minutes
16:28:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/30-dnt-minutes.html npdoty
16:28:20 <Zakim> -WaltMichel
16:28:30 <npdoty> Zakim, bye
16:28:30 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Jack_Hobaugh, hefferjr, Fielding, Carl_Cargill, Wendy, eberkower, WaltMichel, npdoty, justin, Chris_Pedigo, RichardWeaver, vinay,
16:28:30 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dnt
16:28:33 <Zakim> ... kulick, WileyS, +1.323.253.aaaa, adrianba, moneill2, robsherman, [FTC], vincent, Brooks, walter, Chapell
16:28:34 <npdoty> RRSAgent, bye
16:28:34 <RRSAgent> I see no action items