14:42:58 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
14:42:58 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/07/22-wai-wcag-irc
14:43:00 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:43:02 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
14:43:02 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 17 minutes
14:43:03 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
14:43:03 <trackbot> Date: 22 July 2014
14:43:14 <Joshue108> agenda+ Approval of the public review versions of the Understanding/Techniques documents.
14:43:14 <Joshue108> Publication Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/publication_july2014/
14:43:20 <Joshue108> zakim, agenda?
14:43:20 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
14:43:21 <Zakim> 3. July 15 Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/07152014survey/ [from AWK]
14:43:21 <Zakim> 4. Review of comments https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comments_Needing_Responses [from AWK]
14:43:21 <Zakim> 5. Approval of the public review versions of the Understanding/Techniques documents. [from Joshue108]
14:45:56 <Joshue108> zakim, drop item 3
14:45:56 <Zakim> agendum 3, July 15 Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/07152014survey/, dropped
14:46:00 <Joshue108> zakim, drop item 4
14:46:00 <Zakim> agendum 4, Review of comments https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comments_Needing_Responses, dropped
14:46:04 <Joshue108> zakim, agenda?
14:46:04 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
14:46:05 <Zakim> 5. Approval of the public review versions of the Understanding/Techniques documents. [from Joshue108]
14:46:11 <Joshue108> zakim, drop item 5
14:46:11 <Zakim> agendum 5, Approval of the public review versions of the Understanding/Techniques documents., dropped
14:46:23 <Joshue108> agenda+ Approval of the public review versions of the Understanding/Techniques documents.
14:46:23 <Joshue108> Publication Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/publication_july2014/
14:46:34 <Joshue108> zakim, clear agenda
14:46:34 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:46:37 <Joshue108> agenda+ Approval of the public review versions of the Understanding/Techniques documents.
14:46:37 <Joshue108> Publication Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/publication_july2014/
14:47:18 <Joshue108> agenda+ New survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Comments_22May2014/
14:47:41 <Joshue108> agenda+ Close the loop on http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20140107/2878 - By Bruce. This was surveyed - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/2705_2014/
14:48:10 <Joshue108> agenda+ Close the loop on open item on Tim Boland  http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20140107/2877
14:48:43 <Joshue108> Scribe list: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
14:48:48 <Joshue108> Chair: Joshue
14:54:12 <Kenny> Kenny has joined #wai-wcag
14:57:20 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has now started
14:57:26 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:57:28 <Joshue108> zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
14:57:28 <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
14:58:35 <Zakim> +Mike_Elledge
14:58:57 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #wai-wcag
14:59:40 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
15:00:45 <Mike_Elledge> Mike_Elledge has joined #wai-wcag
15:01:03 <Zakim> +jon_avila
15:02:47 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
15:03:17 <David> David has joined #wai-wcag
15:03:34 <Joshue108> zakim, +[GVoice] is Brent
15:03:34 <Zakim> sorry, Joshue108, I do not recognize a party named '+[GVoice]'
15:04:17 <Zakim> +??P25
15:04:43 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
15:05:06 <MichaelC> zakim, gvoice is Brent_Shiver
15:05:06 <Zakim> +Brent_Shiver; got it
15:05:19 <Kenny> zakim, call kenny-mobile
15:05:20 <Zakim> ok, Kenny; the call is being made
15:05:22 <Zakim> +Kenny
15:05:56 <Zakim> +Loretta_Guarino_Reid
15:06:00 <Brent> Brent has joined #wai-wcag
15:06:28 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
15:06:43 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2014JulSep/0086.html
15:06:51 <Loretta> Loretta has joined #wai-wcag
15:07:12 <MichaelC> regrets: Kathy_Wahlbin
15:07:35 <David> Scribe: David
15:08:27 <Joshue108> zakim, next item
15:08:27 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Approval of the public review versions of the Understanding/Techniques documents." taken up [from Joshue108]
15:08:46 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/publication_july2014/results
15:09:30 <Joshue108> DavidMacD; I don't remember there being a final decision on F76.
15:09:37 <Joshue108> DavidMacD: I don't remember there being a final decision on F76.
15:09:59 <Joshue108> DavidMacD: So how did it get deleted.
15:10:13 <jon_avila> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/F76.html
15:10:28 <David> http://tinyurl.com/kmzax4o
15:10:30 <MichaelC> scribe: MichaelC
15:10:53 <David> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/10thJune2014/
15:11:08 <David> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/10thJune2014/
15:11:30 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
15:11:30 <David> http://www.w3.org/2014/06/24-wai-wcag-minutes.html
15:11:35 <jon_avila> q+
15:11:54 <MichaelC> dmd: was working on a rewrite of F76
15:12:01 <MichaelC> don´t remember a resolution to delete it
15:12:13 <Zakim> +Marc_Johlic
15:12:38 <Joshue108> ack jon
15:12:41 <David> I can take over
15:12:50 <MichaelC> scribe: David
15:13:08 <David> Jonathan, hard to test
15:13:27 <David> how can you guarantee that someone can't bypass something
15:14:27 <David> Joshue: gregg made a point that if a user's choice, means that user is aware of cause and effect...
15:14:37 <Loretta> brb
15:15:00 <David> Joshue: I differ to Loretta
15:15:50 <marcjohlic> rrsagent, make minutes
15:15:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/22-wai-wcag-minutes.html marcjohlic
15:15:59 <David> Michael: if we need to delay this, we can, shouldn't affect final publication
15:16:49 <Joshue108> zakim, queue?
15:16:49 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
15:17:20 <David> Michael: David has called out a substantial edit, that was made which we cannot substantiate... so it qualifies for delay if we can't find it...
15:18:00 <David> Michael: Andrew made the edit 6 days ago so he would know where it is...
15:18:26 <Loretta> back
15:18:41 <David> Joshue: I will ping Andrew, to ask why it was made...
15:20:11 <David> Joshue: Loretta do you know about this?
15:20:23 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/F76.html
15:21:14 <David> Loretta: I don't know, sounds like we are resolving to find where the decision was made...
15:21:45 <David> Loretta: We could send out a survey to remove it...
15:22:04 <David> Michael: shouldn't remove it after the fact...
15:22:28 <jon_avila> * I wonder if we should keep f76 and then call for approval of the publication.
15:22:37 <David> Mochael: Andrew was working off of some notes... probably so we'll follow up on that.
15:22:52 <David> s/mochael/Michael
15:23:20 <David> RESOLUTION: Leave open publication til sort out F76 decision
15:23:23 <Joshue108> zakim, next item
15:23:23 <Zakim> agendum 2. "New survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Comments_22May2014/" taken up [from Joshue108]
15:24:40 <David> Joshue: I put together some responses... for this survey, re scr21 etc...
15:25:14 <David> Joshue: want to migrate issues to issue tracker
15:25:37 <Joshue108> Comment LC-2912: ARIA19 issue
15:25:43 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140306/2912
15:26:16 <David> RESOLUTION Accept 2912 as written
15:26:19 <Joshue108> LC-2871: Title attribute says document opens in new window
15:26:43 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20130905/2871
15:27:24 <David> Joshue:
15:27:25 <jon_avila> User agents support title on link when you tab but not when you arrow.
15:28:13 <Joshue108> Related ISSUES are ISSUE-20 and ISSUE-32.
15:28:18 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/issues/20
15:28:22 <David> http://davidmacd.com/test/link-text-with-a-title.html
15:28:26 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/issues/32
15:29:10 <David> Loretta: Confusing... we are agreeing to remove it, but david's data shows it is pretty well supported
15:30:04 <marcjohlic> http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140408/H33
15:30:05 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20120103/H33
15:31:03 <David> Joshue: looks like example to is viable...  we have test cases... etc... so maybe revise response
15:31:24 <David> Michael: i think there may be another good reason to remove it h33 ex 2
15:32:11 <jon_avila> example 2 looks like something for 3.2.5 and not 2.4.4
15:32:11 <David> Michael: Ex 2 is about how to tell users it opens to a new window... seems to confuse the issue of warnings for new windows... can live with keeping or removing
15:32:16 <jon_avila> +1 to Michael
15:32:41 <David> Joshue: When I start to see user agents supporting things i like to have techniques to support that...
15:33:06 <jon_avila> q+
15:33:17 <Joshue108> ack jon
15:33:47 <Zakim> -Loretta_Guarino_Reid
15:33:55 <MichaelC> add to end of description of example 2: ¨... as an additional warning even though the new window is also programmatically determined¨
15:34:07 <David> Jonathan: Concerned... this is related to on input and on user requests... we are implying that if you have to put it in... maybe move it to another technique..
15:34:48 <Zakim> +Loretta_Guarino_Reid
15:35:33 <jon_avila> http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/consistent-behavior-no-extreme-changes-context.html
15:35:34 <David> Jonathan SC3.25 or 3.2.2 might be good places for it...
15:35:51 <jon_avila> http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/consistent-behavior-unpredictable-change.html
15:37:43 <David> David: Concerned if it goes in those that it will resurect an old argument about change of context on clicking a link is which is not what those are about...
15:38:18 <Joshue108> zakim, queue?
15:38:18 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
15:38:45 <David> adavid: Thinks 3.3.2 labels and instructions
15:38:57 <David> s/adavid/David
15:39:06 <Loretta> brb
15:39:58 <David> Michale: I think 3.2.2
15:40:27 <David> s/Michale/Michael
15:40:32 <Loretta> back
15:41:41 <David> Loretta: It doesn't break where it is, are we going to put it somewhere where it might break...
15:43:04 <David> Michael: May have found a hole... should put in the plug in the future... input vs clicking... much debate... put it on revisit list... for future... leave where it is
15:43:29 <David> Loretta: might want to log other issue.
15:44:49 <David> Michael: Post WCAG 2 page... add under misc category new bullet, it is not clear whether links are controls in the sense of 3.3.2 and therefore if it applies to links, links opening new windows... needs to be warned under SC others think not...
15:45:17 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
15:45:22 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
15:45:36 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
15:45:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/22-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
15:46:54 <David> David: I remember that the working group did not want to fail clicking a link to a new window without notice of the new window
15:49:01 <David> Loretta: Do we need to update UA notes, which are extensive...?
15:49:32 <jon_avila> Agreed with Joshue -- it does.
15:51:34 <David> iphone supports title with voice over
15:51:45 <David> Voice over works
15:51:54 <Joshue108> zakim, queue?
15:51:54 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
15:53:41 <David> James:  Soundls like the commenter is not commenting on screen reader support
15:54:10 <David> Joshue: Would like to find out more about context of question
15:54:45 <David> Michael: I added issue to wcag oost page
15:54:53 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Post_WCAG_2#Misc
15:55:12 <MichaelC> s/wcag oost page/Post WCAG 2 page/
15:55:16 <David> RESOLUTION: leave open LC2871
15:55:36 <David> ACTION: Joshue to ping commenter of 2871 For more information
15:55:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-265 - Ping commenter of 2871 for more information [on Joshue O Connor - due 2014-07-29].
15:55:46 <Joshue108> Comment LC-2891: The technique doesn't solve the problem of the success criterion SCR21
15:55:56 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20140107/2891
15:56:26 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/issues/35
15:56:37 <David> Zakim: Next topic
15:57:15 <David> TOPIC: Comment LC-2891: The technique doesn't solve the problem of the success criterion SCR21
15:57:33 <MichaelC> q+
15:58:20 <David> Loretta: If I was random person reading archives, it would look like we closed it...
15:59:14 <MichaelC> ack me
15:59:42 <David> Michael: Looks like a brush off if we respond publicly...
16:00:05 <Loretta> As we discussed, we are moving this issue to the tracking system for issues raised by Working Group members. We will address this using that process.
16:00:40 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20140107/2891
16:04:08 <David> Joshue: Right that will work... will move it over to new systems ... I can do it tomorrow...
16:04:20 <David> Loretta: I can take care of it during the meeting
16:06:03 <Joshue108> LC-2904: Technique F17: procedure #4 should be reworded
16:06:09 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20140107/2904
16:06:22 <David> Michael: 2889, 2907  will close these comments.... separating comments form wg members... moving WG members to the issue list rather than public comments.
16:07:51 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20140107/2905
16:12:04 <David> James: Sometimes we have two buttons with the same access key.
16:12:23 <David> Loretta: I agree accesskey not covered in 4.1.1
16:15:06 <David> Michael: Axis deprecated in HTML5
16:16:04 <Joshue108> The axis attribute on the td element is obsolete. Use the scope attribute instead
16:16:09 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/TR/html-markup/td.html
16:16:58 <David> Joshue: Let
16:17:20 <David> Joshue: Let's get back to commenter to figure out what they are saying
16:26:43 <MichaelC> PROPOSED RESOLUTION for LC-2904: "For client-side image maps, check that the value of the usemap attribute is a URI that references a valid name or id on the page."
16:26:43 <MichaelC> And then change the expected result flag from true to false for that step.
16:26:49 <jamesn> PROPOSED RESOLUTION:  Change F17 title to be a failure of 4.1.1 due to invalid idrefs in HTML, remove check 1 & check 3.
16:28:10 <David> RESOLUTION: Accept  LC2891, 2889, 2907 responses as amended
16:28:30 <Zakim> -Joshue
16:28:55 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:28:58 <Zakim> -Kenny
16:29:06 <Joshue108> zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
16:29:06 <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
16:30:21 <David> RESOLUTION: LC 2939 as amended
16:30:43 <David> s/amended/amended and accepted
16:31:49 <David> RESOLUTION: LC-2904: "For client-side image maps, check that the value of the usemap attribute is a URI that references a valid name or id on the page."
16:32:39 <Loretta> Thanks for your comment. We have updated the test procedure to reflect the HTML spec correctly.
16:33:49 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20140107/2904
16:37:00 <David> RESOLUTION: Accept LC2904 as amended
16:37:48 <Zakim> +Kenny
16:37:52 <Joshue108> Start next week on PROPOSED RESOLUTION:  Change F17 title to be a failure of 4.1.1 due to invalid idrefs in HTML, remove check 1 & check 3.
16:38:04 <Loretta> +1 for James' proposal to retitle F17
16:38:40 <Mike_Elledge> Thanks!
16:38:42 <Zakim> -jon_avila
16:38:43 <Zakim> -Joshue
16:38:44 <Zakim> -Brent_Shiver
16:38:46 <Zakim> -Mike_Elledge
16:38:46 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
16:38:47 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
16:38:48 <Zakim> -Kenny
16:38:48 <David> Joshue: Start next week on PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Change F17 title to be a failure of 4.1.1 due to invalid idrefs in HTML, remove check 1 & check 3.
16:38:49 <Zakim> -Marc_Johlic
16:39:09 <Zakim> -Loretta_Guarino_Reid
16:39:09 <David> Zakim, list attendees
16:39:10 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Joshue, Mike_Elledge, David_MacDonald, jon_avila, Michael_Cooper, Brent_Shiver, Kenny, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Marc_Johlic, James_Nurthen
16:39:23 <Brent> Brent has left #wai-wcag
16:39:28 <David> zakim, bye
16:39:28 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Joshue, Mike_Elledge, David_MacDonald, jon_avila, Michael_Cooper, Brent_Shiver, Kenny, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Marc_Johlic,
16:39:28 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wai-wcag
16:39:32 <Zakim> ... James_Nurthen
16:39:44 <David> rrsagent, make log public
16:40:01 <David> rrsagent, make minutes
16:40:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/22-wai-wcag-minutes.html David
17:51:44 <Joshue> Joshue has joined #wai-wcag
18:09:47 <Joshue> Joshue has joined #wai-wcag
19:28:54 <Joshue> Joshue has joined #wai-wcag
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