14:52:10 RRSAgent has joined #html-media
14:52:10 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/07/22-html-media-irc
14:52:12 RRSAgent, make logs public
14:52:12 Zakim has joined #html-media
14:52:14 Zakim, this will be 63342
14:52:14 ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
14:52:15 Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
14:52:15 Date: 22 July 2014
14:56:31 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Jul/0014.html
14:56:57 HTML_WG()11:00AM has now started
14:57:04 +[Microsoft]
14:57:19 zakim, [Microsoft] is me
14:57:19 +paulc; got it
15:02:06 davide has joined #html-media
15:02:28 Good morning.
15:02:44 ddorwin has joined #html-media
15:02:49 + +1.415.832.aaaa
15:02:50 geguchi has joined #html-media
15:03:02 jamil has joined #html-media
15:03:06 markw has joined #html-media
15:03:13 +davide
15:03:14 good afternoon
15:03:15 joesteele has joined #html-media
15:03:25 + +1.408.536.aabb
15:03:30 + +1.425.868.aacc
15:03:31 jdsmith has joined #html-media
15:03:37 Zakim, aabb is me
15:03:37 +joesteele; got it
15:03:38 zakim, [aaaa] is geguchi
15:03:39 sorry, paulc, I do not recognize a party named '[aaaa]'
15:03:47 +MarkW
15:03:51 zakim, aaaa is geguchi
15:03:51 +geguchi; got it
15:03:54 Chair: paulc
15:03:59 Zakim, MarkW is me
15:04:00 +markw; got it
15:04:11 +??P24
15:04:15 adrianba has joined #html-media
15:04:16 Scribe: joesteele
15:04:20 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:21 On the phone I see paulc, geguchi, davide, joesteele, +1.425.868.aacc, markw, ??P24
15:04:30 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Jul/0014.html
15:04:56 zakim, ??P24 is me
15:04:56 +ddorwin; got it
15:04:57 zakim, code?
15:04:57 the conference code is 63342 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), adrianba
15:05:08 +[Microsoft]
15:05:12 zakim, [Microsoft] is me
15:05:12 +adrianba; got it
15:05:16 Topic: Role Call
15:05:20 Zakim, who is here?
15:05:22 On the phone I see paulc, geguchi, davide, joesteele, +1.425.868.aacc, markw, ddorwin, adrianba
15:05:22 On IRC I see adrianba, jdsmith, joesteele, markw, jamil, geguchi, ddorwin, davide, Zakim, RRSAgent, paulc, trackbot
15:05:49 Previous minutes -- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Jun/0072.html
15:06:04 Topic: Action items and Issues
15:06:05 BobLund has joined #html-media
15:06:25 -markw
15:06:27 +ReimundoGarcia
15:06:51 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:06:52 +markw
15:06:53 On the phone I see paulc, geguchi, davide, joesteele, +1.425.868.aacc, ddorwin, adrianba, ReimundoGarcia, markw (muted)
15:07:43 who is aacc?
15:08:18 zakim, aacc is jdsmith
15:08:18 +jdsmith; got it
15:08:29 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Jul/0014.html
15:09:23 Joe: Cannot hear you.
15:09:31 -joesteele
15:09:47 pladd has joined #html-media
15:09:47 hold on -- looks like I got disconnected
15:10:03 the call went quiet for at least 3 of us
15:10:14 +joesteele
15:10:33 Zakim, disconnected from the call it seems like
15:10:33 I don't understand you, joesteele
15:10:51 paulc, do you hear other people?
15:10:53 trackbot, start meeting
15:10:55 RRSAgent, make logs public
15:10:57 Zakim, this will be 63342
15:10:57 ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start 10 minutes ago
15:10:58 Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
15:10:58 Date: 22 July 2014
15:11:08 Jerry, Joe, and David are in our own conference apparently.
15:11:17 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:11:17 I notice HTML_WG()11:00AM has restarted
15:11:17 Scribe: joesteele
15:11:18 On the phone I see paulc, geguchi, davide, jdsmith, ddorwin, adrianba, ReimundoGarcia, markw, joesteele, BobLund
15:11:20 Chair: paulc
15:11:28 zakim, mute me
15:11:28 adrianba should now be muted
15:12:11 Can anyone hear me?
15:12:14 no
15:12:16 No
15:12:22 -paulc
15:12:22 you probably need to rejoin
15:12:40 +[Microsoft]
15:12:51 zakim, [Microsoft] is me
15:12:51 +paulc; got it
15:12:57 Topic: Role call
15:13:02 Zakim, who is here?
15:13:02 On the phone I see geguchi, davide, jdsmith, ddorwin, adrianba (muted), ReimundoGarcia, markw, joesteele, BobLund, paulc
15:13:04 On IRC I see pladd, BobLund, adrianba, jdsmith, joesteele, markw, jamil, geguchi, ddorwin, davide, Zakim, RRSAgent, paulc, trackbot
15:13:06 Topic: EME status and bugs
15:13:25 Editor's draft: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/tip/encrypted-media/encrypted-media.html
15:13:27 paulc: Editors draft has had 2-3 drafts since last mtg
15:13:31 ... few new bugs
15:13:38 http://tinyurl.com/7tfambo
15:13:46 ... this is the list of bugs
15:13:56 ... 22 bugs total
15:14:45 Topic: Encrypted Media Extensions Stream Format and Initialization Data Format Registry
15:14:48 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/tip/encrypted-media/initdata-format-registry.html
15:15:13 pauc: that is the registry -- need to make sure editors are aware this is referenced in editors draft
15:15:22 ... although no references list in the editors draft
15:15:28 See bug https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25733
15:15:30 ... normally there would be a list of references
15:15:47 ... this bug was discussing the registry for in-band source tracks
15:16:15 ... Director had said we are ok with having pointers to informative registries even when they use normative language
15:16:34 ... we can add a "references" section and point to this registry
15:16:45 ddorwin: will add as part of the refactoring
15:16:52 ReSpec
15:16:58 ... using ReSpec
15:17:22 Tracking bug for ReSpec: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25506
15:17:24 paulc: anyone working on this bug knows about this also -- moot now because MSE heartbeat was published
15:17:28 Topic: New EME bugs
15:17:43 Topic: [Bug 26332] New: Applications should only use EME APIs on secure origins (e.g. HTTPS)
15:18:21 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26332
15:18:51 paulc: David do you want to say anything?
15:19:37 ddorwin: chances are that EME exposing IDs that are not well protected, we should protect them with secure origin
15:19:39 q+
15:19:52 q+
15:19:57 ddorwin: this is a common theme on the Internet
15:20:10 paulc: several commenters I don't usually see
15:20:18 ... is it clear what changes we would make?
15:20:32 ... is comment 5 the only change proposed?
15:20:34 See comment five: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26332#c5
15:20:47 ddorwin: this is still open to provide guidance, needs to be normative
15:21:13 paulc: Adrian or Jerry have a commet?
15:21:50 jdsmith: I wonder if this is a strong countermeasure - would need a license server on the other end to exploit the ID
15:21:51 q+
15:22:06 ack joe
15:24:10 joesteele: I am in favor of this because it provides protection for the application vendor not so much worried about the privacy implications. I believe the protections are already described for the IDs
15:24:13 ack markw
15:24:34 q+
15:25:12 ack dd
15:25:14 markw: I support the comments about the identifiers, we have text about protecting that already. The problem with having the origin as HTTPS is that all the content has to be downloaded over HTTPS -- don't support for that reason
15:25:54 ddorwin: not meant to be offensive, there is no normative text about protecting the application.
15:26:01 ... only thing we can do is relate to the origin
15:26:28 ... no obvious to me how the ID is protected - each CDM has to be checked by the UA to make sure it is not leaking these IDs
15:26:35 ack jd
15:26:50 zakim, who is making noise?
15:26:54 s/protecting the application/protecting the identifier/
15:27:03 paulc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ddorwin (14%)
15:27:13 jdsmith: my question is -- do we want to be stringently requiring HTTPS when there are valid use cases for HTTP.
15:27:26 ... there is an implication that CDMs need to protect their data exchanges
15:27:40 ... this might be a strong counter-measure for sites that could use HTTP
15:28:02 paulc: some people were not aware of this bug - so folks should add their comments in the bug
15:28:16 ... let's go broad and continue with the other new bugs
15:28:29 Topic: [Bug 26313] New: Steps for createSession should define what happens if the sessionType is not supported
15:28:37 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26313
15:29:21 paulc: Jerry you created, David commented right after, have you seen Davids response?
15:29:29 See David's response: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26313#c1
15:29:57 jdsmith: had not seen this yet
15:30:10 paulc: we could move forward then, you can respond in the bug
15:30:28 ... editors might be abke to just resolve
15:30:37 Topic: [Bug 26401] New: Key message destinationURL usage is not reflected in examples
15:30:44 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26401
15:31:53 q+
15:31:54 Example 2 at https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/tip/encrypted-media/encrypted-media.html#examples
15:31:54 joesteele: this was added just to add in support for destinationURL since it will be required for some CDMs
15:32:03 ack dd
15:32:08 Related bug: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25920
15:32:42 ddorwin: resolution of the bug was to remove this until we have a way to do this in a safe way
15:32:46 q+
15:33:07 ... defaultURL is now NULL in the text
15:33:12 step 7.8 of https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/default/encrypted-media/encrypted-media.html#dom-createsession
15:33:48 ack joe
15:34:20 markw has joined #html-media
15:36:45 q+
15:36:56 Joe is concerned about code in function handleKeyNeeded(event)
15:36:58 joesteele: I am not in favor of removing destinationURL -- was hoping that was not the outcome of previous bug
15:37:10 handleKeyNeeded() is a handler for needkey, which does not have a destinationURL
15:37:17 ack dd
15:37:47 Probably want handleMessage() in 8.4.
15:38:09 Actually Joe is pointing to function licenseRequestReady(event)
15:38:21 ddorwin: the function you refereded to is not the right one -- think you mean licenseRequestReady()
15:38:47 ... need to talk about what the language should actually be -- currently specified as NULL in the initial message
15:38:58 ... in the createSession algorithm
15:39:37 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/default/encrypted-media/encrypted-media.html#dom-update sets destinationURL in 4.6
15:39:45 ... the initial one is currently specified as NULL
15:39:46 s/4.6/step 4.6/
15:40:23 ddorwin: I will update the bug with pointers
15:40:30 joesteele: I will update the bug from there
15:40:46 ... provide some example code that I think should work
15:41:05 Topic: Bugs discussed at last meeting
15:41:13 Topic: Bug 26207 - Provide a way to check system capabilities required for UHD playback
15:41:19 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26207
15:43:05 q?
15:43:28 joesteele_ has joined #html-media
15:43:32 rrsagent, generate minutes
15:43:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/22-html-media-minutes.html paulc
15:43:35 q+
15:43:38 scribe: joesteele_
15:43:59 paulc: maybe I missed it -- several folks have responded
15:43:59 q-
15:44:13 ... maybe you can just let us know how you want this bug processed
15:44:28 ... Jerry to look at the bug and repsonses
15:44:36 Topic: Bug 25896 - Why is EME creating new DOMException subclasses?
15:44:42 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25896#c12
15:44:51 q+
15:44:52 paulc: proposal made to close
15:45:18 glenn has joined #html-media
15:45:25 paulc: anyone objecting should repsond in the bug
15:45:41 jdsmith: with this change we lose the numeric capability in the error
15:45:59 +glenn
15:46:01 ddorwin: I propose closing this bug and opening a new one to add this capability back as needed
15:46:38 ... removed the MediaKeyErrors because things have changed -- commented out with issue statements
15:46:49 ... should explore Jerrys use case separately
15:47:12 ... Joe had a question about getting systemCodes back from Promise rejection
15:47:18 paulc: has the other bug been opened?
15:47:28 jdsmith: I will take thr action to open that bug
15:47:34 s/thr/the/
15:48:06 q+
15:48:16 Topic: EME Use cases Wiki
15:48:24 https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/Media_Task_Force/EME_Use_Cases
15:48:38 paulc: Joe can summarize his update and call for more comments
15:48:43 The error bug I was referring to is https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26372. Please take a look since errors are up in the air.
15:49:24 Mark's feedback: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Jul/0016.html
15:49:48 Joe: Use cases on the Wiki should all be supported today
15:50:04 -ReimundoGarcia
15:50:05 ... keyrelease and downscaling might not be supported
15:50:26 ... seems to be general agreement that this is good set of use cases
15:50:39 ... Joe wants to get agreement before fleshing them out more
15:50:54 ... and Joe has not yet added (to a separate section) future use cases
15:51:21 Joe thinks he agrees with Mark's comments and Joe will reflect this back into the Wiki
15:51:25 q+
15:51:29 David has done some editing
15:51:37 Bob Lund commented positively
15:51:54 ack dd
15:52:07 ddorwin: there is a new bug on errors -- that was what I wanted to say
15:52:12 ... last conversation
15:52:26 ... no comments on the wiki
15:52:27 ack markw
15:52:56 markw: I noticed that there may be confusion about system sessions and license - which seem to be separate things
15:53:03 ... can have session that persists when license does not
15:53:05 q+
15:53:30 ... not sure how we resolve this - text in the specification talks about both things
15:53:36 ack joe
15:54:31 Joe: Not sure that the Wiki uses case motivate the need for loadSession capability
15:54:49 ... some need for handling persistence but not sure of the need for saving a session
15:54:57 q+
15:55:16 Joe will send an email or file a bug on Mark's point and agrees there is confusion there
15:55:19 ack dd
15:55:51 ddorwin: have had some discussion around this -- it was added as a way to manage offline and support the secure proof of key release model
15:56:01 ... existing normative text should support both of those models
15:56:14 ... may be different from how some keys model key persistence
15:56:27