18:48:23 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
18:48:23 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/07/22-aapi-irc
18:48:25 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
18:48:25 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aapi
18:48:27 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
18:48:27 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
18:48:28 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
18:48:28 <trackbot> Date: 22 July 2014
18:49:24 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM has now started
18:49:30 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
18:49:40 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:49:40 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
18:49:48 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:49:48 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:50:00 <clown> chair:  Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:50:08 <clown> agenda: this
18:50:21 <clown> agenda+ News:  ACTION-1457: (All) New test plan tracker product for ARIA 1.1.
18:50:32 <clown> agenda+ News:  ISSUE-397: (All) Need a way to specify an indeterminate set size.
18:50:40 <clown> agenda+ News:  ISSUE-610: (All) Comboboxes should allow complex children elements.
18:50:51 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1115/ACTION-1478: (All) Cynthia confirms that MS engineers do not object to "SHOULD NOT".
18:50:59 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1104: (Cynthia) UIA mapping for aria-describedby in 5.5.1 table where referenced accessible is not in the a11y tree.
18:51:22 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1372: (Cynthia)  Create test case for rowgroup role.
18:51:35 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1373: (Cynthia): Create test case for explicit/implicit mix of aria-posinset and aria-setsize.
18:51:44 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1445: (Cynthia) UIA mapping for role presentation in tables and lists.
18:51:59 <clown> agenda+ Processing actions/issues: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23
18:52:09 <clown> agenda+ be done.
18:52:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/22-aapi-minutes.html clown
18:57:20 <davidb> davidb has joined #aapi
19:00:58 <Zakim> + +1.416.848.aaaa
19:02:11 <davidb> Zakim, aaaa is David_Bolter
19:02:11 <Zakim> +David_Bolter; got it
19:03:02 <Zakim> -Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:03:24 <davidb> lost ya
19:03:27 <Zakim> + +1.415.624.aabb
19:03:41 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
19:03:51 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:03:51 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
19:04:00 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:04:00 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:04:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/22-aapi-minutes.html clown
19:06:43 <clown> scribenick:  davidb
19:07:06 <davidb> Zakim, take up next agendum
19:07:06 <Zakim> agendum 1. "News:  ACTION-1457: (All) New test plan tracker product for ARIA 1.1." taken up [from clown]
19:07:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/22-aapi-minutes.html clown
19:07:36 <clown> action-1457
19:07:36 <trackbot> action-1457 -- Cynthia Shelly to Ask Michael to create 1.1 testharness -- due 2014-07-03 -- OPEN
19:07:36 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1457
19:08:19 <clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/25
19:08:26 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aapi
19:08:56 <bgaraventa1979> zakim, aaaa is Bryan_Garaventa
19:08:57 <Zakim> sorry, bgaraventa1979, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
19:09:34 <bgaraventa1979> zakim, I am Bryan_Garaventa
19:09:34 <Zakim> sorry, bgaraventa1979, I do not see a party named 'Bryan_Garaventa'
19:10:25 <davidb> JS: cynthia had a test case for aria 1.1 but nowhere to put it, asked Michael about that and he created a test plan product in tracker and we can ask cynthia to try putting it there.
19:10:38 <davidb> DB: sounds like a plan
19:10:59 <davidb> leaving the action open...
19:11:06 <davidb> Zakim, take up the next item
19:11:06 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take up the next item', davidb
19:11:16 <davidb> Zakim, next agendum
19:11:16 <Zakim> agendum 2. "News:  ISSUE-397: (All) Need a way to specify an indeterminate set size." taken up [from clown]
19:11:21 <clown> issue-387
19:11:21 <trackbot> issue-387 -- Make sure that the input placeholder attribute be mapped to the platform accessibility API as the accessible description. -- raised
19:11:21 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/387
19:11:31 <clown> issue-397
19:11:31 <trackbot> issue-397 -- Need a way to specify an indeterminate set size -- open
19:11:31 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/397
19:12:20 <clown> aria-setsize="98+"
19:12:58 <davidb> JS: there are lots of actions around this to see about details of implementation
19:13:12 <davidb> JS: it is a proposal
19:13:45 <clown> aria-setsize="indeterminate"
19:14:30 <davidb> DB: would aria-setsize="+" be legal?
19:15:36 <cyns> cyns has joined #aapi
19:16:22 <davidb> (discussion)
19:16:34 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:16:47 <cyns> zakim, microsoft has me
19:16:47 <Zakim> +cyns; got it
19:19:14 <davidb> Zakim, next agendum
19:19:14 <Zakim> agendum 3. "News:  ISSUE-610: (All) Comboboxes should allow complex children elements." taken up [from clown]
19:19:24 <clown> issue-610
19:19:24 <trackbot> issue-610 -- Comboboxes should allow complex children elements -- open
19:19:24 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/610
19:20:06 <davidb> JS: actual use case is popup a combobox produces a tree, and a search field for searching within the tree
19:20:19 <davidb> DB: i think we should allow anything
19:20:36 <davidb> JS: jcraig warns the keyboard model will be difficult
19:21:07 <davidb> BG: how do you know which is which... (discusses some complexity, user context stuff)
19:22:01 <davidb> JS: screen reader could change mode based on where it thinks it is (e.g. search field)
19:22:24 <davidb> BG: the mechanisms get confused
19:22:36 <davidb> JS: my conclusion is that screen readers need to get with it
19:22:38 <davidb> DB: I concur
19:22:56 <davidb> BG: how do you know if you've moved outside the role that has selectable items
19:23:09 <davidb> JS: the DOM structure might tell us
19:23:31 <davidb> (note I am condensing the discussion using some of my own words)
19:23:49 <davidb> JS: note gtk combobox expects a treeview
19:24:01 <davidb> JS: a listbox is a degenerate treeview
19:24:27 <davidb> BG: consider grids, with a date picker as well
19:25:21 <clown> aria-hasmanagedfocus
19:25:22 <davidb> DB: we can't always fit things into the current screen reader model
19:25:59 <davidb> JS: aria-hasmanagedfocus would tell screen readers to take a hands off approach to keyboard handling
19:27:02 <davidb> Zakim, next agendum
19:27:03 <Zakim> agendum 4. "ACTION-1115/ACTION-1478: (All) Cynthia confirms that MS engineers do not object to "SHOULD NOT"." taken up [from clown]
19:27:13 <clown> action-1478
19:27:13 <trackbot> action-1478 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Check with ie team whether statement re: action-1115, "user agents must not expose a custom role in msaa's accrole property." can be a should not. -- due 2014-07-22 -- PENDINGREVIEW
19:27:13 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1478
19:27:44 <davidb> JS: Mozilla objected to 'MUST NOT' Microsoft is okay with 'SHOULD NOT'
19:27:47 <davidb> DB: great
19:28:20 <davidb> Zakim, close action-1478
19:28:20 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close action-1478', davidb
19:28:38 <davidb> JS: I've closed it
19:29:02 <davidb> JS: I will also close 1115 - done
19:29:22 <davidb> Zakim, next agendum
19:29:22 <Zakim> agendum 5. "ACTION-1104: (Cynthia) UIA mapping for aria-describedby in 5.5.1 table where referenced accessible is not in the a11y tree." taken up [from clown]
19:29:29 <clown> ACTION-1104
19:29:29 <trackbot> ACTION-1104 -- Cynthia Shelly to Define what the accessibility API mapping is for UIA on aria-describedby in section 5.5.1 table when the element does not exist in the accessibility tree such as when css: display:none applies -- due 2014-06-30 -- OPEN
19:29:30 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1104
19:31:35 <davidb> note: we're shifting due dates for a bunch of cynthia's actions
19:31:44 <davidb> Zakim, next agendum
19:31:44 <Zakim> agendum 6. "ACTION-1372: (Cynthia)  Create test case for rowgroup role." taken up [from clown]
19:31:51 <clown> action-1372
19:31:51 <trackbot> action-1372 -- Cynthia Shelly to Create a test case, if there is none, to test the rowgroup role -- due 2014-07-01 -- OPEN
19:31:51 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1372
19:31:54 <davidb> JS: will change date
19:32:33 <davidb> Zakim, next agendum
19:32:33 <Zakim> agendum 6 was just opened, davidb
19:32:59 <davidb> Zakim, take up next agendum
19:32:59 <Zakim> agendum 7. "ACTION-1373: (Cynthia): Create test case for explicit/implicit mix of aria-posinset and aria-setsize." taken up [from clown]
19:33:05 <clown> action-1373
19:33:06 <trackbot> action-1373 -- Cynthia Shelly to Create a test case for when aria-posinset and aria-setsize are provided explicitly on some but not all elements. -- due 2014-07-01 -- OPEN
19:33:06 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1373
19:33:21 <davidb> JS updates date
19:33:33 <davidb> Zakim, take up next agendum
19:33:33 <Zakim> agendum 7 was just opened, davidb
19:33:36 <davidb> Zakim, take up next agendum
19:33:36 <Zakim> agendum 7 was just opened, davidb
19:33:47 <davidb> Zakim, take up next agendum
19:33:47 <Zakim> agendum 7 was just opened, davidb
19:34:06 <clown> s/JS updates date/JS:  updates date/
19:34:11 <davidb> Zakim, take up next agendum
19:34:11 <Zakim> agendum 8. "ACTION-1445: (Cynthia) UIA mapping for role presentation in tables and lists." taken up [from clown]
19:34:19 <clown> action-1445
19:34:19 <trackbot> action-1445 -- Cynthia Shelly to Investigate the ideal uai mapping for role presentation in tables and lists. -- due 2014-06-17 -- OPEN
19:34:20 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1445
19:34:39 <davidb> Zakim, take up next agendum
19:34:39 <Zakim> agendum 8 was just opened, davidb
19:34:44 <davidb> JS: changed
19:34:46 <davidb> Zakim, take up next agendum
19:34:46 <Zakim> agendum 8 was just opened, davidb
19:35:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/22-aapi-minutes.html clown
19:35:09 <davidb> Zakim, take up next agendum
19:35:09 <Zakim> agendum 8 was just opened, davidb
19:35:14 <davidb> Zakim, take up next agendum
19:35:14 <Zakim> agendum 9. "Processing actions/issues: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23" taken up [from clown]
19:35:36 <clown> action-980?
19:35:36 <trackbot> action-980 -- David Bolter to Define mappings for managed aria related states: aria-setsize, aria-posinset, arla-level, focused, focusable with reference to section 5.5 bullet 1 of the UAIG. -- due 2014-07-22 -- OPEN
19:35:36 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/980
19:36:15 <davidb> JS: updated date
19:36:21 <davidb> Zakim, take up next agendum
19:36:21 <Zakim> agendum 10. "be done." taken up [from clown]
19:38:23 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
19:38:29 <Zakim> - +1.415.624.aabb
19:38:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/22-aapi-minutes.html clown
19:38:48 <Zakim> -David_Bolter
19:39:23 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'stop log', clown.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
19:39:33 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'stop loggin', clown.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
19:39:40 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'stop logging', clown.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
19:42:40 <clown> regrets:  Joanie_Diggs
19:42:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/22-aapi-minutes.html clown
19:43:17 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aapi
19:43:24 <clown> regrets:  Joanie_Diggs
19:43:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/22-aapi-minutes.html clown
19:45:01 <clown> present:  David_Bolter, Bryan_Garaventa, Cynthia_Shelly
19:45:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/22-aapi-minutes.html clown
19:45:28 <clown> present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:45:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/22-aapi-minutes.html clown
19:46:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/22-aapi-minutes.html clown
19:46:51 <clown> zakim, bye
19:46:51 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
19:52:48 <clown> rrsagent, please part
19:52:48 <RRSAgent> I see no action items