13:25:58 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rd
13:25:58 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-rd-irc
13:26:00 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:26:00 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rd
13:26:02 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
13:26:02 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
13:26:03 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
13:26:03 <trackbot> Date: 16 July 2014
13:26:58 <shadi> Chair: Abou-Zahra_Shadi
13:26:58 <shadi> Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [sharper]
13:26:58 <shadi> Agenda+ TPAC representation [vivienne]
13:26:58 <shadi> Agenda+ Symposium Status: Way-Finding CFP [christos, vivienne, annika]
13:26:58 <shadi> Agenda+ 'Open-Mic' Round-Table Discussion of one of the Topics [all]
13:26:59 <shadi> Agenda+ Symposium Status: Web-of-Things [shadi, klaus]
13:27:01 <shadi> Agenda+ Symposium Status: Big Data [sharper, all]
13:27:03 <shadi> Agenda+ Symposium Status: Wearables [markel]
13:27:05 <shadi> Agenda+ Symposium Status: Web Inclusion [all]
13:27:07 <shadi> Agenda+ Note Edit Status:  Metrics  [markel, giorgio]
13:27:11 <shadi> Agenda+ Note Edit Status: Mobile [bim]
13:27:13 <shadi> Agenda+ Note Edit Status: Text Customisation [david, shawn]
13:27:15 <shadi> Agenda+ Note Edit Status: Easy to Read [klaus]
13:27:17 <shadi> Agenda+ Note Edit Status: User Modeling [yehya]
13:27:19 <shadi> Agenda+ Note Edit Status: eLearning [justin, silvia]
13:28:06 <shadi> zakim, call shadi-617
13:28:06 <Zakim> ok, shadi; the call is being made
13:28:07 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has now started
13:28:08 <Zakim> +Shadi
13:28:56 <Zakim> +??P10
13:29:52 <Peter_Thiessen> zakim +??P10 is me
13:30:00 <Yehya> Yehya has joined #rd
13:30:09 <Peter_Thiessen> zakim, +??P10 is me
13:30:09 <Zakim> sorry, Peter_Thiessen, I do not recognize a party named '+??P10'
13:30:14 <Bim> zakim, call bim-617
13:30:14 <Zakim> ok, Bim; the call is being made
13:30:16 <Zakim> +Bim
13:30:19 <Peter_Thiessen> zakim, ??P10 is me
13:30:19 <Zakim> +Peter_Thiessen; got it
13:30:29 <Peter_Thiessen> scribe: Peter_Thiessen
13:30:38 <Peter_Thiessen> zakim, mute me
13:30:38 <Zakim> Peter_Thiessen should now be muted
13:30:43 <Peter_Thiessen> :-)
13:30:52 <Zakim> +[FIT]
13:31:02 <christos> christos has joined #rd
13:31:15 <Yehya> zakim, [FIT] is me
13:31:15 <Zakim> +Yehya; got it
13:31:54 <Zakim> +??P26
13:32:08 <christos> zakim, ??P26 is me
13:32:08 <Zakim> +christos; got it
13:32:09 <Bim> zakim, mute me
13:32:10 <Zakim> Bim should now be muted
13:32:45 <shadi> regrets: Simon, Giorgio, David, Silvia, Markel
13:33:20 <shadi> zakim, drop agendum 1
13:33:20 <Zakim> agendum 1, Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments), dropped
13:33:28 <Peter_Thiessen> zakim, take up next
13:33:28 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 2
13:33:29 <Zakim> agendum 2. "TPAC representation" taken up [from vivienne]
13:33:29 <Zakim> agendum 2. "TPAC representation" taken up [from vivienne via shadi]
13:34:13 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: TPAC is a standing question. We've talked about this before - the W3C technical planery
13:34:46 <Peter_Thiessen> ..we hope to make this a big event - anniversaries etc.
13:34:59 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/
13:35:04 <Vivienne> Vivienne has joined #rd
13:35:16 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: we could have a face to face meeting if enough attendees
13:35:31 <Peter_Thiessen> ..would also be good to meet other groups and request joint meetings
13:35:41 <Yehya> q+
13:35:42 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:35:49 <Peter_Thiessen> ..will any on the call be able to make it this year to TPAC
13:35:49 <Vivienne> zakim, IPcaller is me
13:35:49 <Zakim> +Vivienne; got it
13:35:59 <Peter_Thiessen> yehya: I may be attending
13:36:18 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: do you have other meetings planned?
13:36:28 <Peter_Thiessen> yehya: will be available for a face to face meeting
13:36:36 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: others?
13:36:46 <Peter_Thiessen> (sadly I won't be able to make it)
13:37:00 <Peter_Thiessen> vivienne: I'll be there and available for a face to face meeting
13:37:15 <Peter_Thiessen> christos: won't be able to make it
13:37:34 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: We'll take this to the email list
13:37:44 <shadi> agenda?
13:38:19 <Peter_Thiessen> zakim, close item 2
13:38:19 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Peter_Thiessen
13:38:36 <shadi> q?
13:38:40 <shadi> q- ye
13:38:42 <Peter_Thiessen> zakim, take up item 13
13:38:42 <Zakim> agendum 13. "Note Edit Status: User Modeling" taken up [from yehya via shadi]
13:39:23 <Peter_Thiessen> chistos: I am working on it (user modeling) - hopefully next week we'll have an update
13:40:04 <Peter_Thiessen> zakim, take up item 3
13:40:04 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Symposium Status: Way-Finding CFP" taken up [from christos, vivienne, annika via shadi]
13:40:37 <Vivienne> https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Way-finding_systems
13:40:39 <Peter_Thiessen> vivien: it is in there now
13:40:50 <Peter_Thiessen> ..the way finding system into the symposium topics
13:41:08 <Peter_Thiessen> ..formatted the template..sent an email to the group for input
13:41:17 <shadi> zakim, mute me
13:41:17 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
13:41:21 <Peter_Thiessen> ..received some input form Yehya on definitions
13:41:47 <shadi> zakim, ack me
13:41:47 <Zakim> unmuting Shadi
13:41:48 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
13:41:53 <Peter_Thiessen> ..I'll add the feedback from Yehya
13:42:30 <Peter_Thiessen> ..trying to find a way to integrate the topic into web based topics more
13:42:39 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: thanks for working on this and moving it forward
13:42:56 <Peter_Thiessen> ..some of the issues are the wiki
13:43:17 <Peter_Thiessen> ..when you plugged in the text you lost the heading structure and that needs to be updated
13:43:28 <Peter_Thiessen> vivienne: haven't had a chance to update the formatting
13:43:44 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: our wiki should accept html/markdown/
13:44:03 <Peter_Thiessen> ..when logged in it should display an edit link
13:44:17 <Peter_Thiessen> vivenne: it doesn't have anything for heading coding or new lines
13:44:23 <Peter_Thiessen> ..so I need to learn the symbols etc
13:44:36 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: you can use HTML if that's more familiar
13:44:44 <christos> +q
13:45:13 <christos> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Accessibility_of_way-finding_systems
13:45:23 <Peter_Thiessen> christos: I am looking at an older version I think - just to sync?
13:45:41 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: the issue is that you created a new page
13:45:49 <shadi> q- christ
13:45:58 <Peter_Thiessen> vivienne: I had to create a new page to put it into the symposium format
13:46:14 <Peter_Thiessen> ..it was in the catalog entry and I couldn't find a way to change from symposium to catalog entry
13:47:16 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: if you got to the wiki main page and then their is under the heading navigation, 5th item, step by step.. and under that item 7, and a template for the symposium etc.
13:47:46 <Peter_Thiessen> vivienne: that is different - their is another template under top..
13:48:20 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: you've put in a new wiki page, the information - I'd use that to update the existing wiki entry that we already have (see link from Christos)
13:48:33 <Peter_Thiessen> ..this will continue to work as our scratchpad (TM)
13:49:08 <Peter_Thiessen> ..the call for paper is going to have a short timeline, only a page to draft the symposium pages, and then it will become obsolete
13:49:18 <Peter_Thiessen> ..rather than delete you could just rename the new page
13:49:41 <Peter_Thiessen> ..we have two templates: i. overview page, ii.actual call for papers
13:49:55 <Peter_Thiessen> ..I'm ok with putting both templates into one page as well
13:50:08 <shadi> The key sections are:
13:50:09 <shadi>  - Introduction (repeated on both pages);
13:50:09 <shadi>  - Background (on Overview page);
13:50:09 <shadi>  - Objectives (on Overview page);
13:50:09 <shadi>  - Important Dates (on Call for Papers);
13:50:10 <shadi>  - Scope (on Call for Papers);
13:50:12 <shadi>  - Contributions (on Call for Papers).
13:50:14 <shadi> The other sections are rather administrative and can be added by me. Feel free to put all these sections on one wiki page that we can work on together with the group.
13:50:24 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: this is the listing of the important sections
13:50:42 <Peter_Thiessen> ..I'm happy if you'd like to combine these into one page for rough working
13:50:49 <Peter_Thiessen> ..then I can separate them later
13:51:16 <Peter_Thiessen> ..it is important that the background and objectives are very specific to topics
13:51:27 <Peter_Thiessen> ..the metrics symposium is a good example of this
13:51:43 <Peter_Thiessen> ..the background section discusses the symposium and then links back to the wiki for more background
13:52:06 <Peter_Thiessen> ..I am open to suggestions for improving the instructions
13:52:23 <Peter_Thiessen> vivienne: I was confused between the symposium and catalog entry
13:52:34 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: he meant to take it from step 1 to 7
13:52:44 <Peter_Thiessen> ../he/simon/
13:53:23 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: I would like to think about the content of the symposium
13:53:43 <Peter_Thiessen> ..judi: was saying to focus on Web and not web of things though this was not clear
13:53:55 <Peter_Thiessen> ..we want to make it from the title more web related
13:54:26 <Peter_Thiessen> vivienne: yes it probably wasn't very clear - web of things, wayfinding and related topics
13:54:33 <christos> q+
13:54:58 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: there are some w3c overhead signage, location based services..
13:55:15 <Peter_Thiessen> ..sidenote: the term geospatial may now be spatial
13:56:47 <Peter_Thiessen> christos: the topic web - we can relate that to web of things but the other, wayfinding and web of things can be linked to the web - as well as open data and linked data schemes..
13:57:38 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: it is listed on the wiki page
13:57:51 <Peter_Thiessen> ..the issue with this topic is that it covers so many areas and could get out of hand
13:58:28 <Peter_Thiessen> ...what is at the end of the symposium that we want to come out with?
13:59:06 <Peter_Thiessen> vivienne: how can wafinding systems integrate into the..
13:59:37 <Peter_Thiessen> ..how accessible can they be and how integrate into the ?web? environment
13:59:45 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: wouldn't the answer be using web technologies
14:00:12 <Peter_Thiessen> vivieen: not a lot of research into wayfinding systems and how they benefit people with disabilities
14:00:28 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: I don't want to put you on the spot
14:00:34 <Peter_Thiessen> ..so let's bring this question to the group
14:00:40 <christos> +q
14:01:02 <Peter_Thiessen> ..how accessible they are and also how they can be constructed to meet the needs of people with disabilities
14:01:13 <Peter_Thiessen> ..two different things
14:01:39 <Peter_Thiessen> christos: one thing is how they did the systems, and the other is how can this system be useful for people with disabilities
14:01:44 <shadi> q- chris
14:02:54 <Peter_Thiessen> ..I don't know if this would be better as two different symposiums
14:03:06 <Peter_Thiessen> ..though I think they can be combined
14:03:18 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: we are still at a formation stage for the symposium
14:04:08 <Peter_Thiessen> ..I like this angle and to my knowledge there is a lot of work on mobile based applications to orient users with accessible paths
14:04:50 <Peter_Thiessen> ..I've also seen projects more about haptics, like accessible maps with spatial information that is accessible
14:05:26 <Peter_Thiessen> ..those things designed for people with disabilities
14:05:39 <christos> +q
14:05:46 <Peter_Thiessen> ..another class that is coming quickly I think is, things like airport apps that are not designed for accessibility
14:06:36 <Peter_Thiessen> ..this is a brainstorming session - if you think of any other applications in scope, how do we drive that forward research wise
14:07:38 <shadi> q- chris
14:07:42 <Peter_Thiessen> christos: ..how can the information in technologies be combined like navigation and inter-navigation
14:08:14 <Peter_Thiessen> ..this is frustrating for users, to have multiple applications
14:08:58 <Peter_Thiessen> ..how can web be used to provide a common infrastructure that can combine multiple technologies
14:09:08 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: good point, that system would be the web :)
14:09:19 <Peter_Thiessen> ..so what I think what you're going into linked open data
14:09:57 <Peter_Thiessen> ..some of the examples are on the wiki page
14:11:09 <Peter_Thiessen> christos: if you get the right data, or how accessible is a cafe or my favorite pizza place, then you can combine all this information in an open link scheme
14:11:18 <Peter_Thiessen> ..in order to have an application being developed on that
14:11:32 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: are we looking at vocabularies? or open link data?
14:11:56 <Peter_Thiessen> christos: I have developed one of these applications and from my research, applications use their own vocabulary
14:12:22 <Peter_Thiessen> ..no common scheme, if I can say so, so everybody can plug into that
14:13:05 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: so one goal of the work shop *could be* to look at exactly that
14:13:22 <Peter_Thiessen> ..what kind of data formats and vocabularies exist and what are ways forward for the research community to pick this up
14:13:47 <Peter_Thiessen> ..the taxonomi may exist in iso but the question is has anybody mapped that into an RDF format for example
14:14:06 <Peter_Thiessen> ..so we could look at the vocabulary to provide accessibility in an open format
14:14:19 <Bim> Q+
14:14:22 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: do other's have thoughts?
14:14:36 <Bim> ack me
14:15:14 <Peter_Thiessen> bim: one of things that I've always wanted help with and their has been some non web technologies that tried to achieve this
14:15:26 <Peter_Thiessen> ..where lamp posts for example would describe the surrounding world
14:15:41 <Peter_Thiessen> ..it was very embarrassing because it spoke very loudly
14:16:05 <Vivienne> q+
14:16:07 <Peter_Thiessen> ..I wonder if it's time to start pushing some of these things into single apps that are responive
14:16:35 <Peter_Thiessen> ..so wherever you have data available about the environment ie. what bus is next, that could all be done over the web and picked up from people's smart phones
14:16:50 <christos> q+
14:16:56 <shadi> ack viv
14:16:57 <Peter_Thiessen> vivienne: that is something that the ?apple eye beacon? is attempting to do
14:17:24 <Peter_Thiessen> ..it's accurate to within mm and it can tell you about your environment
14:17:48 <Peter_Thiessen> ..what I haven't seen is how accessible that is for ie. low vision
14:18:05 <Peter_Thiessen> bim: that is why I was calling for a single app
14:18:55 <christos> q-
14:19:21 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: two key aspects of accessibility here: i. the user interface accessibility and ii. how well it understands the user needs
14:19:49 <Peter_Thiessen> ..a lot of the research projects I've seen has been focusing on trying to find out user needs
14:19:51 <Bim> zakim, mute me
14:19:51 <Zakim> Bim should now be muted
14:20:52 <Peter_Thiessen> ..this could be another item in the symposium - to look at existing research on user needs and preferences
14:20:53 <christos> q+
14:21:29 <Peter_Thiessen> ..one of things that we can look at is gathering some of the existing research
14:21:46 <Peter_Thiessen> ..and the way forward is to try to build stock on this and avoid re-inventing the wheel
14:22:04 <Peter_Thiessen> christos: I think this issue of user needs is an extension of vocaluaries
14:22:50 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: it is in a way
14:22:52 <shadi> q- chris
14:23:26 <Peter_Thiessen> ..if you need your information in a certain way, ie. the description of how many meteres to go forward, if the vocabulary doesn't provide that data then it cannot meet the user needs
14:23:41 <Peter_Thiessen> ..what I was thinking more about is how to collect the user needs and preferences
14:23:47 <Vivienne> could we get info from GPII as they are working with user profiles?
14:24:21 <Peter_Thiessen> christos: this links very much with the user modelling
14:24:55 <Peter_Thiessen> ..the user needs discussion is maybe part of the user modelling
14:25:45 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: correct me if I'm wrong is that once you understand the user needs and preferences and then model it
14:26:01 <Peter_Thiessen> ..what I mean more is preference like does the user want to hear beeping when approaching a door
14:26:50 <Peter_Thiessen> christos: yes it's similar but if we describe the user couldn't we automatically combine that and get the user needs
14:27:10 <Peter_Thiessen> ..we can have that as a point in the objectives
14:27:28 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: I would rather not broaden the topic
14:27:56 <Peter_Thiessen> ..ie. as you near a door a beep would become later.. some people prefer this while while other's find it bothersome
14:28:03 <Peter_Thiessen> ..it will depend on so many factors
14:28:31 <Peter_Thiessen> ..so what we're talking about here is more the user needs and not the models
14:28:40 <Peter_Thiessen> christos: more about the user adaptation preferences
14:29:08 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: I think we're going to need to continue this next week
14:30:24 <Peter_Thiessen> ..so many factors of this - this was just an initial dump - the user needs I'm not sure how much that relates to Web
14:30:28 <Peter_Thiessen> :)
14:31:05 <Peter_Thiessen> vivienne: if anyone wants to tidy up the wiki and get the basic structure for the symposium call and the ideas from shadi into the catalog
14:31:33 <Peter_Thiessen> christos: I can draft out the objectives and template for symposium and CFP and provide some background
14:32:01 <Peter_Thiessen> shadi: and don't forget the user modeling draft
14:32:06 <Peter_Thiessen> cheers all
14:32:08 <Zakim> -Yehya
14:32:10 <Zakim> -christos
14:32:10 <Zakim> -Peter_Thiessen
14:32:11 <Zakim> -Bim
14:32:13 <Zakim> -Shadi
14:32:17 <Zakim> -Vivienne
14:32:19 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has ended
14:32:19 <Zakim> Attendees were Shadi, Bim, Peter_Thiessen, Yehya, christos, Vivienne
14:53:39 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
14:53:39 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
14:53:39 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
14:53:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:53:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-rd-minutes.html trackbot
14:53:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
14:53:48 <RRSAgent> I see no action items