14:56:21 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
14:56:21 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/07/15-wai-wcag-irc
14:56:23 <Wilco> Wilco has joined #wai-wcag
14:56:23 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:56:23 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #wai-wcag
14:56:25 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
14:56:25 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
14:56:26 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
14:56:26 <trackbot> Date: 15 July 2014
14:56:29 <AWK> Zakim, agenda?
14:56:29 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
14:56:39 <AWK> Agenda+ Publication update
14:56:56 <AWK> Agenda+ Discussion of Accessibility Support Database work
14:57:10 <AWK> Agenda+ July 15 Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/07152014survey/
14:57:27 <AWK> Agenda+ Review of comments https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comments_Needing_Responses
14:57:58 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has now started
14:58:06 <Zakim> + +1.617.766.aaaa
14:58:09 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
14:58:13 <AWK> zakim, .aaaa is AWK
14:58:13 <Zakim> sorry, AWK, I do not recognize a party named '.aaaa'
14:58:20 <AWK> zakim, aaaa is AWK
14:58:20 <Zakim> +AWK; got it
14:58:33 <AWK> Regrets+ Kathleen, Loretta
14:58:40 <Zakim> + +31.30.239.aabb
14:58:40 <Joshue> Joshue has joined #wai-wcag
14:58:52 <AWK> Zakim, aabb is Josh
14:58:52 <Zakim> +Josh; got it
14:58:55 <Wilco> zakim, I am +31
14:58:55 <Zakim> sorry, Wilco, I do not see a party named '+31'
14:59:28 <AWK> Zakim, aabb is Wilco
14:59:28 <Zakim> sorry, AWK, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
14:59:40 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:59:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see AWK, David_MacDonald, Josh
14:59:46 <AWK> Zakim, Josh is Wilco
14:59:46 <Zakim> +Wilco; got it
15:00:09 <shadi> shadi has joined #wai-wcag
15:00:32 <shadi> zakim, call shadi-617
15:00:32 <Zakim> ok, shadi; the call is being made
15:00:34 <Zakim> +Shadi
15:00:49 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
15:00:51 <David> David has joined #wai-wcag
15:01:04 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:01:31 <Zakim> +Marc_Johlic
15:01:33 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see AWK, David_MacDonald, Wilco, Shadi, [IPcaller], Marc_Johlic
15:01:46 <Zakim> +??P22
15:02:23 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
15:02:41 <Joshue> zakim, [IPcaller.a] is Joshue
15:02:41 <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
15:02:47 <MichaelC> zakim, IPcaller is E.A._Draffan
15:02:47 <Zakim> +E.A._Draffan; got it
15:02:48 <Zakim> +Sailesh_Panchang
15:03:01 <Zakim> +Kenny
15:03:56 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
15:03:56 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:04:16 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see AWK, David_MacDonald, Wilco, Shadi, E.A._Draffan, Marc_Johlic, Michael_Cooper, Joshue (muted), Sailesh_Panchang, Kenny
15:04:36 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:36 <ea_> ea_ has joined #wai-wcag
15:04:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see AWK, David_MacDonald, Wilco, Shadi, E.A._Draffan, Marc_Johlic, Michael_Cooper (muted), Joshue (muted), Sailesh_Panchang, Kenny
15:04:48 <MichaelC> scribe: Wilco
15:07:07 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2014JulSep/0053.html
15:07:11 <Wilco> AWK: Thanks EA for joining the TF
15:07:17 <AWK> Zakim, take up item 1
15:07:18 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Publication update" taken up [from AWK]
15:07:38 <Wilco> AWK: have some changes to make to xml
15:08:09 <Wilco> ... ready for next week, still on scedual
15:08:34 <AWK> Zakim, next item
15:08:34 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Discussion of Accessibility Support Database work" taken up [from AWK]
15:08:58 <Sailesh> Sailesh has joined #wai-wcag
15:09:39 <Wilco> SAZ: Through EU project WAI-ACT, we've developed an online tool on Access support
15:09:41 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/accessibility-support/dev/
15:09:54 <Wilco> ... it should be crowd sourced to address scale
15:10:12 <Wilco> .. development version is available with dummy data
15:10:43 <Wilco> ...Hope this will be a useful tool to tackle accessibility support
15:11:17 <Wilco> ... provide information to developers, not an exhaustive database but as much as possible about techniques as they come out
15:11:51 <Wilco> ... A lot of people do this on their own website. We want to gather this information
15:12:32 <Wilco> ... The data is available through open API, with sufficient data useful for other platforms
15:13:17 <Wilco> ... contributing test data is open. Contributed test cases is limited because they need validation
15:13:23 <AWK> q+
15:13:34 <AWK> q-
15:13:37 <Joshue> zakim, qe
15:13:37 <Zakim> I don't understand 'qe', Joshue
15:13:39 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #wai-wcag
15:13:41 <Joshue> iq?
15:13:43 <Joshue> q?
15:13:58 <Wilco> ... two main functions: Browse results to see if techniques are supported, and for people who want to contribute test results
15:14:14 <Joshue> +q
15:14:16 <Joshue>  ack me
15:14:59 <Wilco> AWK: You can not suggest test cases
15:15:14 <Zakim> + +1.571.389.aacc
15:15:26 <Wilco> SAZ: We can work on this
15:15:28 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
15:15:28 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:15:31 <jon_avila> zakim, I am aacc
15:15:31 <Zakim> +jon_avila; got it
15:15:58 <Wilco> ... side note: there may still be bugs
15:16:14 <Wilco> .. Browse results has filtering options
15:17:07 <Wilco> ... for a technique it says how many results there are in the database and how many passed
15:17:16 <Wilco> ... a technique can have any number of test cases
15:17:42 <AWK> q+
15:17:57 <Wilco> ... From the results you get into the details of what passed and failed with browsers and AT
15:18:35 <Wilco> ... The individual results show contributor name, pass/fail and a comment
15:18:43 <Joshue> ack awk
15:18:45 <Joshue> q?
15:19:15 <Wilco> AWK: On details for ARIA-1 what means 'none'
15:19:34 <Wilco> SAZ: 'none' could be no assistive technology
15:20:25 <Wilco> ... every test case maps to a technique
15:20:27 <marcjohlic> q+
15:21:17 <BarryJohnson> BarryJohnson has joined #wai-wcag
15:21:19 <Wilco> AWK: How to deal with different Operating systems? IOS different versions or 64bit vs 32bit?
15:21:20 <Zakim> +Katie_Haritos-Shea
15:21:51 <Wilco> SAZ: You can do a filter on the operating system
15:22:25 <David> q+
15:22:43 <AWK> ack m
15:23:02 <Wilco> Marc: In the details, I don't see the test result
15:23:17 <Wilco> SAZ: This is a bug, lead developer is on vacation
15:23:25 <Joshue> Thanks Marc, I had the same question
15:23:57 <Wilco> ... individual results should come under the matrix
15:24:26 <Wilco> David: Can you say which OS was used?
15:24:33 <Wilco> SAZ: yes
15:25:05 <Wilco> ... we're working on deep linking so you can link directly to the result
15:25:27 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/accessibility-support/dev/#/results-technique.html/ARIA1
15:25:32 <AWK> Table results where reads "not tested" is not showing sufficient contrast
15:26:06 <Wilco> SAZ: This could be information for the Accessibility support section in the techniques
15:26:29 <Joshue> q?
15:26:32 <Joshue> ack dav
15:26:32 <Wilco> ... Run test cases: You create a test profile / environment
15:27:28 <Wilco> ... with a W3C account you can save profile, with name, user agent, assistive technology, OS and plugins
15:28:13 <Wilco> ... It helps you by detecting your browser / OS
15:28:41 <Wilco> ... There are plans to test on Safari, but we're running low on time. Focus is on rapping up the tool
15:29:45 <shadi> https://github.com/w3c/wai-axsdb-web/issues
15:29:54 <Joshue> s/rapping/wrapping
15:30:03 <Wilco> EA: If you add a profile, back to editing causes a problem
15:30:32 <Wilco> SAZ: Problems can be reported in Github, please do
15:31:37 <Wilco> ... in the future you get test cases relevant to your profile. Right now you get all.
15:32:10 <Wilco> ... Select test cases you want to run, or select all cases from a technique. This too has filters
15:32:44 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #wai-wcag
15:32:52 <Wilco> ... next stage is to run test cases
15:33:53 <Wilco> ... test procedure answered with a yes or no question.
15:34:14 <Wilco> .. allows you to add a comment. Next step is View test results
15:34:48 <Wilco> ... the tool gives you the test file and procedure, and you run the test
15:35:21 <Joshue> q?
15:35:24 <Wilco> David: So if you save test the progress bar goes further
15:36:03 <Wilco> ... the progress bar is confusing, I expect it to be running something in the background
15:36:52 <Wilco> SAZ: Maybe instead of a progress bar have it say '2 of 16 completed'
15:37:13 <Wilco> David: I'll put the issue in Github
15:38:28 <Wilco> SAZ: At the end you get the results, you have an opportunity to correct them. You can add a name, prefilled if you're logged in
15:39:21 <Wilco> ... Data is currently only stored in the client
15:39:29 <Joshue> ack sail
15:40:19 <Wilco> Sailesh: So who can contribute test cases?
15:40:43 <Joshue> q+
15:40:58 <Wilco> SAZ: Not everybody can contribute test cases. We have to work out a work flow for test cases, because they need validation. Browse and contribute test results are open.
15:41:40 <Wilco> Sailesh: Maybe I want a summary for a technique, is it supported or not
15:42:41 <Wilco> SAZ: Browse test results gives a summary. But we don't give a yes/no answer about if it's supported. As a user you should determine if this is sufficient for you
15:43:11 <Joshue> ack me
15:44:04 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
15:44:11 <Wilco> Josh: So you can approach this if you want to know about the validation of a technique
15:44:44 <Wilco> ... Great stuff
15:45:00 <David> q+
15:45:10 <Joshue> ack dav
15:45:15 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
15:45:15 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:45:56 <David> Test : ARIA1_0000063 eqwrgtzui
15:46:27 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/accessibility-support/dev/#/test.html/ARIA1_0000082
15:47:00 <Wilco> David: Some of the 'open test page' links don't open a page
15:47:01 <David> http://www.w3.org/WAI/accessibility-support/dev/#/test.html/ARIA1_0000082
15:47:05 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/accessibility-support/testfiles_dev/WCAG20-ARIA-TECHS/ARIA1_0000082/ARIA1_0000082.html
15:47:27 <AWK> q+
15:48:10 <Wilco> Shadi: My first link takes you to the test case, the second to the test file
15:48:33 <David> http://www.w3.org/WAI/accessibility-support/dev/#/test.html/ARIA1_0000082      click "open test page"
15:49:05 <Joshue> ack awk
15:49:26 <Wilco> ... we have until the end of August in the project. We are looking for more interaction with the working group
15:50:26 <Wilco> ... Wilco has been working on the test files, particularly aria and html5
15:50:56 <Wilco> q+
15:51:42 <Wilco> SAZ: When you add a test case you can flag if it's a draft or ready or whatever
15:51:43 <Joshue> q+ To ask if the submit test case option is active as it didn't work, even when I was logged in with my w3C account
15:52:56 <Wilco> ... You can add a group with access privileges to draft test cases
15:53:23 <Wilco> Katie: Wonderful thing, great idea
15:53:27 <Joshue> ack wilco
15:53:49 <Joshue> WF: I just wondered if we maybe did an update run on the a11y support notes.
15:54:26 <Joshue> SAZ: To see if they are still current?
15:54:28 <Joshue> WF: Yup
15:54:40 <Wilco> Katie: What about pointers once this is completed?
15:55:29 <Wilco> SAZ: We are several steps away from this. I hope this becomes accepted by the community, then this could be useful for the Access support notes
15:55:37 <Joshue> ack me
15:55:38 <Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to ask if the submit test case option is active as it didn't work, even when I was logged in with my w3C account
15:56:04 <Wilco> Josh: Can I access the test case creation?
15:56:21 <Wilco> SAZ: I will add the entire WCAG-WG to submit test cases
15:56:25 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
15:56:25 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:56:59 <Joshue> zakim, agenda?
15:56:59 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
15:57:00 <Zakim> 2. Discussion of Accessibility Support Database work [from AWK]
15:57:00 <Zakim> 3. July 15 Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/07152014survey/ [from AWK]
15:57:00 <Zakim> 4. Review of comments https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comments_Needing_Responses [from AWK]
15:57:28 <Wilco> SAZ: I'll leave it to the WG to decide how to follow up on this
15:57:42 <AWK> WCAG can discuss how we may be able to use the Accessibility Support DB in the next week or two
15:57:54 <Wilco> David: We've been hoping for this for about 8 years. It's daunting, thank you for the work.
15:58:25 <AWK> Zakim, next item
15:58:25 <Zakim> agendum 3. "July 15 Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/07152014survey/" taken up [from AWK]
15:58:27 <Zakim> -Shadi
15:59:10 <Joshue> action-255?
15:59:10 <trackbot> action-255 -- Jonathan Avila to Will suggest a text change for aria7 at a later time -- due 2014-04-29 -- OPEN
15:59:10 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/255
15:59:28 <KathyW> KathyW has joined #wai-wcag
15:59:40 <Joshue> issue-17?
15:59:40 <trackbot> issue-17 -- ARIA 7 has a link to the wrong name calculation <input> rather than <a> -- open
15:59:40 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/issues/17
15:59:51 <Wilco> AWK: Everyone is supportive. Jon, you had an issue
16:00:03 <Zakim> +Kathy_Wahlbin
16:00:16 <Wilco> Jon: ARIA7 has a link, 'accessible name and descr...'
16:00:17 <AWK> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/ARIA7.html
16:00:39 <David> Kathlin we are here... http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/issues/17
16:00:42 <Wilco> ... Points to the main section. David suggested pointing directly to the section dealing with links
16:00:56 <David> +1
16:00:59 <Wilco> ... If we update this, then fix both
16:02:02 <Wilco> ... Basically two links that point to the same location. We should be clear that it goes to the one reffering to links
16:02:06 <Joshue> trackbot, associate issue-17 with action-255
16:02:07 <trackbot> action-255 (Will suggest a text change for aria7 at a later time) associated with issue-17.
16:02:37 <Wilco> David: Resources are more general
16:03:06 <Wilco> Jon: Proposal is to change the link and the name
16:04:35 <Wilco> AWK: Proposal is to change the description text, and point it to the section for links
16:06:21 <Wilco> RESOLUTION: Proposal accepted as amended, including changing the link in description to point to 6.10
16:06:41 <Joshue> ISSUE-17: Proposal to change the description text including changing the link in description to point to 6.10 [ACCEPTED]
16:06:41 <trackbot> Notes added to ISSUE-17 ARIA 7 has a link to the wrong name calculation <input> rather than <a>.
16:07:38 <Joshue> q?
16:07:57 <Joshue> ack me
16:08:32 <David> q+
16:08:46 <Wilco> Josh: A short name may make it less unwieldy
16:08:58 <Wilco> AWK: We may have to do it in all versions
16:09:01 <AWK> ack d
16:10:17 <Ryladog> +1 to David's comment
16:10:43 <Wilco> David: I think best practices are still emerging and we're doing this too early. We should wait on it
16:10:44 <MichaelC> q+
16:10:45 <MichaelC> ack me
16:11:40 <MichaelC> q+ to say this technique is about progressive enhancement, not responsive design
16:12:38 <Wilco> AWK: I don't think this technique says only to work for desktop. Opposite, it says that the conformance claim is based on a shared version
16:12:41 <Joshue> ack mic
16:12:41 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say this technique is about progressive enhancement, not responsive design
16:13:44 <Wilco> MC: This technique is about responsive design, not progressive enhancement. It's a pretty straight forward technique
16:13:50 <MichaelC> zakim, mute me
16:13:50 <Zakim> Michael_Cooper should now be muted
16:13:56 <Joshue> ack sail
16:14:14 <Joshue> q+
16:14:30 <Wilco> Sailesh: The technique has been amended with responses about responsive design
16:14:48 <Wilco> ... Perhaps we should use the term 'base line'?
16:15:00 <jon_avila> q+
16:15:40 <MichaelC> ack me
16:15:52 <Joshue> we have some good bass lines in Dublin.. Nice Dub Reggae club off O Connell street
16:16:21 <Wilco> MC: I think rewording is helpful.
16:16:29 <Joshue> ack me
16:16:40 <jon_avila> q?
16:16:52 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
16:16:52 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:16:55 <Joshue> ack jon
16:17:40 <Wilco> Jon: I think the word in the heading is confusing. If we keep 'responsive' we should clarify that it's about progressive enhancement
16:18:06 <Joshue> q+
16:18:08 <Joshue> ack me
16:18:29 <Wilco> AWK: So one of the ways to make a page responsive is by progressive enhancement
16:19:16 <Wilco> Wilco has joined #wai-wcag
16:19:44 <Wilco> David: A mobile version may not be accessible at all
16:19:56 <Joshue> s/AWK: So one of the ways to make a page responsive is by progressive enhancement/Josh: So one of the ways to make a page responsive is by progressive enhancement
16:20:31 <MichaelC> ack me
16:21:20 <ea_> hmm what about when you make your browser window small on a laptop or desktop - the site has to be responsive with reflow?
16:21:36 <Joshue> +1 to EA
16:21:53 <Joshue> ack me
16:22:51 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
16:22:51 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:23:41 <Wilco> David: My concern is we're sending a message about mobile with this technique
16:24:17 <Joshue> ack me
16:24:30 <Wilco> James: it's more an anti-progressive enhancement technique
16:26:19 <Wilco> James: The entire technique stems from the WCAG conformance claim. The only way to do this in all environments is with 1 basic version
16:27:30 <Wilco> AWK: Maybe take a poll, are people inclined to think this technique has value?
16:27:37 <Joshue> I think it has value
16:27:52 <Ryladog> I do not think we are ready for it
16:28:10 <Wilco> David: I wouldn't support this
16:28:36 <Wilco> Kathy: I don't think we're ready. Maybe if we had input from the mobile TF
16:28:51 <ea_> +1 not sure
16:28:59 <Wilco> ... it doesn't seem like we're sure
16:30:01 <Joshue> s/Kathy: I don't think we're ready. Maybe if we had input from the mobile TF/Katie: I don't think we're ready. Maybe if we had input from the mobile TF
16:30:18 <Joshue> ack me
16:31:00 <Wilco> RESOLUTION: Leave open pending feedback from the Mobile TF
16:31:40 <Wilco> Josh: What are we looking for from them?
16:31:52 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
16:32:07 <Wilco> David: I was thinking longer term. We are just learning about this
16:32:47 <Wilco> ... wait until a draft report on mobile. There is a lot emerging on how to approach things
16:33:15 <Ryladog> +1 to shorter turnaroiund
16:33:50 <Ryladog> +1 to AWK and JO
16:34:51 <Wilco> AWK: Send a message to Mobile TF asking what they think about the technique
16:34:53 <Zakim> -Katie_Haritos-Shea
16:35:00 <Zakim> -Joshue
16:35:02 <Zakim> -AWK
16:35:04 <Zakim> -jon_avila
16:35:04 <Zakim> -E.A._Draffan
16:35:06 <Zakim> -Kathy_Wahlbin
16:35:07 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
16:35:09 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
16:35:10 <Zakim> -Marc_Johlic
16:35:11 <Zakim> -Sailesh_Panchang
16:35:17 <Zakim> -Kenny
16:37:05 <Wilco> RSSAgent, please create minutes
16:37:24 <Zakim> -Wilco
16:37:25 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has ended
16:37:25 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.617.766.aaaa, David_MacDonald, AWK, +31.30.239.aabb, Wilco, Shadi, Marc_Johlic, Michael_Cooper, Joshue, E.A._Draffan, Sailesh_Panchang, Kenny, +1.571.389.aacc,
16:37:25 <Zakim> ... jon_avila, Katie_Haritos-Shea, James_Nurthen, Kathy_Wahlbin
16:39:06 <AWK> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:39:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/15-wai-wcag-minutes.html AWK
16:42:16 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
16:42:52 <David> David has joined #wai-wcag
16:43:44 <David_> David_ has joined #wai-wcag