13:48:10 RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y 13:48:10 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/07/11-mobile-a11y-irc 13:48:12 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:48:14 Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF 13:48:15 Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 13:48:15 Date: 11 July 2014 13:48:39 chair: Kimberly_Patch 13:50:53 Kathy has joined #mobile-a11y 13:52:30 Agenda+ New Mobile WCAG Techniques & Best Practices survey – continue to review survey – starting with #29 13:52:32 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/New_WCAG_2.0_Techniques 13:52:33 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140512_survey/results 13:52:35 Agenda+ Next Steps – there will be no meeting on July 18, next meeting will be Friday July 26 13:52:42 agenda? 13:55:23 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2014Jul/0000.html 13:57:56 regrets+ Detlev, Jonathan_Avila 13:58:48 regrets+ Kathleen_Anderson 14:00:59 AlanSmith has joined #mobile-a11y 14:01:54 Jan has joined #mobile-a11y 14:02:28 zakim, who's here? 14:06:24 Mike Shebanek introducing himself, senior director for accessibility at Yahoo, managing team that does evaluations for accessibility on web and apps. Spent 19 years at Apple, voiceover, iPad product manager 14:11:57 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page 14:13:19 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Technique_Development_Assignments 14:13:31 Kathy: we have been working on identifying what techniques are needed for mobile, both from mobile app and mobile web perspective. We started by going through mobile accessibility guidelines, techniques – marked which ones we felt could be modified, could benefit from a mobile example, or requires some changes. There's also a lot of techniques that are applicable as is, so we marked the... 14:13:33 ...ones that were applicable as is and the ones that require changes. This is on the wiki. 14:15:04 Kathy: then we took a look at the mobile accessibility guidelines – BBC, IBM, Funka Nu, to see things from those that are missing. We also did a brainstorm. The survey we are going through today is all the techniques that we have identified. What we are doing now is seeing which should be a technique, or a best practice, and what it would apply to in WCAG. 14:15:27 gavinevans has joined #mobile-a11y 14:15:50 Kathy: we are nearly done with the survey. From there we will summarize it and put it in a list of things that we need to work on to come up with a good set. As we go through it doesn't mean we can't add new techniques or identify things that are missing – we expect that that will be the case, but this is a good starting place for us to create the techniques that are needed. 14:16:05 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140512_survey/results#xq26 14:18:46 Kathy: there's been a lot of talk about how we're going to integrate this – we started discussions on that and very quickly came to the conclusion that we needed to know the scope of what we were looking at first. We wanted to be usable for developers to really get in there and know what's applicable and what's important for mobile so we have to think about how to structure that. We have... 14:18:48 ...some limitations about what we can do – that's something we're going to have to get approval for from the WCAG and UAAG working groups – they are the sponsoring groups for this task force and we regularly go back to those groups. That's part of the next step to. 14:19:22 Mike: trying to understand targets – native apps, webpages, but how about apps that look like native apps but our web delivery – are we comprehending all three of those or just native apps or just web? 14:20:22 Kathy: keeping in mind all of them – we may decide to focus on mobile web first and then tackle mobile apps – we have to define that as a group and get feedback from the working groups as well in our next steps. The next biggest chunk is summarize what we've got so far, agree on it within this task force, then go back to the working groups and I'm sure we will have a number of discussions... 14:20:23 ...around what to do with apps, hybrid apps and web. 14:21:38 Scribe: Jan 14:22:26 Topic: 25. Provide the open/closed state information in the menu icon 14:22:31 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140512_survey/results#xq26 14:22:48 Kathy: Referring to "hamburger menu" 14:23:22 Kathy: Tech is simply to add that open vs close info to the icon for this pattern 14:23:48 Kathy: Jonathon says Not clear about this -- if the menu is opened wouldn't that be apparent? 14:24:06 Kathy: Detlev says I think this should be expressed more generically so it applies both to content that is revealed like ccordions and to dropdowen menus (some just an icon, others linking to the main section). 14:25:10 Mike: I think it should be more generic 14:26:43 Alan: Maybe "open/close" state of a toggle 14:26:55 Detlev: Agrees 14:27:42 Mike: I think it of a hide/show 14:28:39 kathy: Maybe give three examples under this...accordian, menu button 14:29:13 s/Detleve/Gavin 14:29:17 s/Detlev/Gavin 14:30:19 Kathy: Anything that has hide/show state, we want the state communicated 14:30:54 Jan: aria-expanded.... 14:31:14 Gavin: But no ARIA in native apps 14:31:43 Mike: Right, there are tabs e.g. 1 of 3 14:31:55 Mike: Page indicator in iOS...dots on screen 14:33:27 Jan: Are we writing general here? Or iOS, Android, Web 14:33:34 Gavin: Or Windows 8 14:34:30 Kathy: So under 4.1.2....and 1.3.1 14:34:34 All: OK 14:35:48 Resolution: Provide the Hide/show state. Sufficient under 4.1.2 and 1.3.1. 14:36:20 Topic: 27. Ensure that menu can be zoomed to 200% 14:36:28 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140512_survey/results#xq28 14:36:42 Kathy: Came from Funka Nu 14:36:55 Kathy: Not sure if this is still a major issue 14:37:15 Alan: Not sure why this is there 14:37:47 Mike: In OS10, this is a significant issue.... 14:37:58 Mike: Work around is to magnify the entire screen 14:38:11 Mike: Not sure how this affects mobile as much 14:38:42 Gavin: I've found problem in overlays etc when try to pinch and zoom due to fixed point size 14:39:29 Gavin: But depends how menu is implemented 14:43:06 Jan: Are we really talking about reflowing at 200%...not just getting there? 14:43:49 Mike: If you have some overlay it should scale at the same rate as other things 14:44:42 http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#visual-audio-contrast-scale 14:45:14 http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140311/G142 14:46:38 Jan: Maybe we are talking about text-only 200% zoom 14:47:58 Sorry , need to drop call. Being asked to join another call for work. 14:48:02 thank you. 14:48:49 Mike: Idea is that default text size needs to go to 3x or whatever 14:51:33 Mike: The menu and overlay pinch... 14:51:40 Gavin: http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140311/F69 14:51:54 Gavin: There is already a failure for this 14:52:25 Jan: Maybe we should add to that and talk about overlays 14:54:07 Potential solution: sufficient technique under 1.4.4 but specifically adding two F 69, Modify to say resizing in general not just text resize 14:55:53 Gavin: Just wondering if there is anything in the MWBP? 14:56:08 Kathy: Can you look and get back to us at the next call? 14:56:28 Mike: Is 200% sufficient on small mobile device? 14:56:34 Kathy: Good point 14:57:18 Jan: Maybe we can add an advisory tech about going beyond 200% 14:58:14 Kathy: Other point is minimum font size... 14:59:23 Jan: Best measurement unit is pt 15:01:10 Mike: But be careful with small phones vs. tablets 15:02:09 Action: Jan to research a table of pt values vs. viewing distance 15:02:10 Created ACTION-17 - Research a table of pt values vs. viewing distance [on Jan Richards - due 2014-07-18]. 15:03:34 Action: Gavin to look at MWBP re: text resize 15:03:34 Created ACTION-18 - Look at mwbp re: text resize [on Gavin Evans - due 2014-07-18]. 15:04:29 thanks everyone 15:04:42 rrsagent, make log world 15:04:51 meeting: Mobile A11Y TF 15:04:59 chair: Kathy 15:05:15 rrsagent, make minutes 15:05:15 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/11-mobile-a11y-minutes.html Kathy 16:10:57 wuwei has joined #mobile-a11y 16:53:55 wwu has joined #mobile-a11y 18:01:04 wwu has joined #mobile-a11y 20:38:25 wuwei has joined #mobile-a11y 21:15:50 wuwei has joined #mobile-a11y