IRC log of dpub on 2014-07-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:17:35 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dpub
14:17:35 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:17:37 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
14:17:37 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #dpub
14:17:39 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be dpub
14:17:39 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 43 minutes
14:17:40 [trackbot]
Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
14:17:40 [trackbot]
Date: 07 July 2014
14:17:48 [ivan]
Chair: Liza
14:18:14 [ivan]
Regrets: Vlad, Laura_Dawson
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clapierre has joined #DPUB
14:23:12 [ivan]
14:40:34 [tmichel]
tmichel has joined #dpub
14:56:51 [astein]
astein has joined #dpub
14:57:27 [AH_Miller]
AH_Miller has joined #DPUB
14:57:39 [Luc]
Luc has joined #dpub
14:58:10 [Zakim]
DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started
14:58:17 [liza]
liza has joined #dpub
14:58:18 [Zakim]
+ +1.240.421.aaaa
14:58:19 [ivan]
zakim, dial ivan-voip
14:58:19 [Zakim]
ok, ivan; the call is being made
14:58:20 [Zakim]
14:58:50 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.439.aabb
14:58:54 [ivan]
zakim, aaaa is AH_Miller
14:58:54 [Zakim]
+AH_Miller; got it
14:59:02 [liza]
zakim, aabb is me
14:59:02 [Zakim]
+liza; got it
14:59:12 [brady_duga]
brady_duga has joined #dpub
14:59:37 [Karen]
zakim, code?
14:59:37 [Zakim]
the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, Karen
14:59:42 [Zakim]
+ +1.917.207.aacc
14:59:43 [Zakim]
+ +
14:59:47 [murakami]
murakami has joined #dpub
14:59:49 [Zakim]
14:59:54 [dauwhe]
Zakim, aacc is me
14:59:54 [Zakim]
+dauwhe; got it
15:00:05 [ivan]
zakim, aadd is Luc
15:00:05 [Zakim]
+Luc; got it
15:00:07 [Zakim]
15:00:10 [Zakim]
15:00:14 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.858.aaee
15:00:15 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.979.aaff
15:00:30 [liza]
Bizarro Liza?
15:00:35 [Zakim]
+ +1.206.675.aagg
15:00:37 [pkra]
pkra is aaee
15:00:43 [ivan]
zakim, liza.a is dkaplan
15:00:43 [Zakim]
+dkaplan; got it
15:00:43 [astearns_]
zakim, aagg is me
15:00:44 [Zakim]
+astearns_; got it
15:00:54 [ivan]
zakim, aaee is pkra
15:00:54 [Zakim]
+pkra; got it
15:00:57 [clapierre]
zakium, 1.408.979.aaff is Charles
15:00:58 [Zakim]
+ +1.217.300.aahh
15:01:26 [Zakim]
15:01:40 [Karen]
Ayla Stein, University of Illinois
15:01:51 [ivan]
zakim, aahh is astein
15:01:51 [Zakim]
+astein; got it
15:02:00 [clapierre]
zakim, 1.408.979.aaff is clapierre
15:02:00 [Zakim]
sorry, clapierre, I do not recognize a party named '1.408.979.aaff'
15:02:01 [murakami]
zakim, +??P10 is me
15:02:01 [Zakim]
sorry, murakami, I do not recognize a party named '+??P10'
15:02:09 [murakami]
zakim, ??P10 is me
15:02:09 [Zakim]
+murakami; got it
15:02:21 [ivan]
zakim, who is here?
15:02:21 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AH_Miller, Ivan, liza, dauwhe, Luc, Karen_Myers, duga, dkaplan, pkra, +1.408.979.aaff, astearns_, astein, murakami
15:02:24 [Zakim]
On IRC I see murakami, brady_duga, liza, Luc, AH_Miller, astein, tmichel, clapierre, Zakim, RRSAgent, dauwhe, Karen, ivan, pkra, plinss, astearns_, liam, dkaplan, trackbot
15:02:39 [Zakim]
15:02:43 [ivan]
zakim, aaff is clapierre
15:02:43 [Zakim]
+clapierre; got it
15:02:59 [tmichel]
zakim, ??P2 is me
15:02:59 [Zakim]
+tmichel; got it
15:03:09 [Karen]
Ivan: We are all set now
15:03:16 [Karen]
Liza: Karen volunteered to scribe
15:03:19 [Karen]
Chair: Liza
15:03:20 [ivan]
scribenick: Karen
15:03:36 [Karen]
Liza: First, let's approve last week's minutes. Are there any objections?
15:03:41 [Karen]
…hearing none, minute approved
15:03:47 [Karen]
…Today likely not the full hour call
15:03:57 [Karen]
…We will get an update from the Accessibility Task Force
15:04:10 [Karen]
…And before we go on break, I would love to hear from that group about what they will be doing
15:04:20 [Karen]
…and about any other work happening during the summer months
15:04:30 [Karen]
…Any volunteers [to give the update]?
15:04:36 [Karen]
…Or shall I choose someone?
15:05:03 [Karen]
Deborah: We [Acces. TF] have not actually gotten together in the last month, so there is not a lot to say
15:05:16 [Karen]
…Gerardo has left, and I'm not sure if we have a replacement 'fearless leader'
15:05:19 [Karen]
…We have to fix that
15:05:23 [Karen]
…Anyone want to speak up?
15:05:31 [Karen]
…We will send email to find a replacemen
15:05:33 [Karen]
15:05:47 [Karen]
Liza; Who came in from Benetech for Gerardo
15:05:53 [Zakim]
+ +1.734.904.aaii
15:05:54 [Karen]
Deborah: Charles LaPierre
15:06:02 [fjh]
fjh has joined #dpub
15:06:04 [Karen]
…may not be a bad thing; could be a clean slate
15:06:15 [Karen]
…Maybe we can spend this time reviewing the overall IG has talked about
15:06:26 [Karen]
…a lot of our work touches on Accessibility so I'd like to hear about some of the gaps
15:06:31 [Bill_Kasdorf]
Bill_Kasdorf has joined #dpub
15:06:35 [fjh]
zakim, code?
15:06:35 [Zakim]
the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, fjh
15:06:41 [Karen]
…that perhaps this group could cover; areas such as styling and markup, etc.
15:06:52 [Karen]
…or areas where we need to be looking at Accessibility
15:07:04 [Zakim]
15:07:06 [Karen]
…What Charles can bring is knowledge about what rest of group has been looking at
15:07:07 [fjh]
zakim, ipcaller is me
15:07:07 [Zakim]
+fjh; got it
15:07:12 [Karen]
…might be able to help answer that question
15:07:20 [Karen]
…Another thing we did talk about
15:07:23 [fjh]
Present+ Frederick_Hirsch
15:07:32 [Karen]
…with Richard, we talked about a possible WAI TF under Protocols and Formats
15:07:37 [Karen]
…to create a subteam responsible
15:07:44 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
15:07:44 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AH_Miller, Ivan, liza, dauwhe, Luc, Karen_Myers, duga, dkaplan, pkra, clapierre, astearns_, astein, murakami (muted), tmichel, +1.734.904.aaii, fjh
15:07:47 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Bill_Kasdorf, fjh, murakami, brady_duga, liza, Luc, AH_Miller, astein, tmichel, clapierre, Zakim, RRSAgent, dauwhe, Karen, ivan, pkra, plinss, astearns_, liam,
15:07:47 [Zakim]
... dkaplan, trackbot
15:07:48 [Karen]
…for creating an EPUB structural semantics module
15:07:57 [Karen]
…in the way ARIA TF is looking at ebook
15:08:01 [Karen]
…and ebook mappings guide
15:08:12 [Karen]
…I dropped the ball on moving that forward; need to pick up
15:08:23 [Karen]
…Possibility that David @ maybe interested in being a facilitator?
15:08:30 [Karen]
…That is kind of where the group stood when we spoke a month ago
15:08:38 [Karen]
…Would love if anyone can bring up anything I missed
15:08:48 [Karen]
…We need to reorganize and pick someone to herd the cats after the break
15:08:51 [Karen]
…So we have a plan
15:09:10 [Karen]
…Sounds like what Liza said is that the first part of the plan is to do a gap analysis and see where the whole in the plan are
15:09:16 [Karen]
…regarding the wider group
15:09:23 [Karen]
Charles: I agree with you; that is fine
15:09:34 [Karen]
…I would love to become the fearless leader once I understand more
15:09:38 [ivan]
15:09:40 [Karen]
…or that can be done in another meeting
15:09:56 [Karen]
Liza: other outstanding issues, Ivan?
15:09:57 [Karen]
ack Ivan
15:10:12 [Karen]
Ivan: I look at all that the group should do; and how to organize is a separate question
15:10:23 [Karen]
…First, this discussion with PF on structural semantics is important
15:10:25 [Karen]
…for the TF
15:10:30 [Karen]
…which at the moment is dormant
15:10:40 [Karen]
…on long term this is one of the urgent things we should do
15:10:51 [Karen]
…A bit of an outsider of PF, but what I would like to understand
15:11:00 [Karen]
…Not sure if you can find out from Richard
15:11:11 [Karen]
…What is the formal mechanism to define new values for the role attribute
15:11:19 [Karen]
…for whatever purpose we decide to use it for
15:11:27 [Karen]
…My big question marks are two-fold
15:11:44 [Karen]
…one is the role attributes here has been considered for values and usage that are not necessarily Accessibility related
15:11:52 [Karen]
…May be values for replacing the EPUB type
15:11:58 [Karen]
…which are not nec. Accessibilty
15:12:03 [Karen]
…not sure how this group would react on that
15:12:08 [Karen]
…This is a specific question to clarify
15:12:12 [Karen]
…The other big question mark I have
15:12:15 [Karen]
…is more social
15:12:26 [Karen]
…There is an interplay between the PF and the HTML5 WG
15:12:34 [Karen]
…which I want to understand
15:12:47 [Karen]
…If a specific value is accepted by PF, for electronic books or publication
15:13:04 [Karen]
…are those values automatically accepted by the HTML5 WG; would the HTML5 validator accept them?
15:13:15 [Karen]
…Or do we need a second round for acceptance? I don't know
15:13:30 [Karen]
…There are very specific questions for which I have not received answers
15:13:40 [Karen]
…if this TF could close these issues in a positive way, that would be really great
15:13:50 [Karen]
…Because then the whole process of semantics would be the focus
15:14:02 [Karen]
Liza: I think the group is looking for specific things to work on
15:14:07 [Karen]
Ivan: This is one thing
15:14:16 [Karen]
…I don't know if there is any reaction on these questions
15:14:26 [Bill_Kasdorf]
15:14:30 [Karen]
Luc: How could we make it moving with the people taking care of the role attribute today?
15:14:44 [Karen]
Ivan: I thought that there is a plan to have a or several meetings with the PF people
15:14:50 [Karen]
…Unfortunately one thing that did happen
15:15:05 [Karen]
…One of people I talked to, who is member of W3C Staff, may take another job
15:15:22 [Karen]
…But having one or several meetings with not only Richard but also staff contact for Protocols and Formats WG
15:15:31 [Karen]
…to have a series of meetings and make these things clear and written down
15:15:38 [Karen]
…Not sure if this can be done in July with vacations
15:15:43 [Karen]
Luc: way to do it is to have this meeting
15:15:47 [Karen]
Ivan: yes
15:15:52 [Karen]
Liza: Who can set that up?
15:16:10 [Karen]
Ivan: I don't really have contact with them; I will be on vacations for next several weeks
15:16:24 [Karen]
…if it shifts to August, I can set it up then, but not before
15:16:44 [Karen]
Liza: A fixed time in the future is better than nothing
15:16:54 [Karen]
Ivan: Thierry, are you around in July?
15:16:59 [Karen]
Thierry: yes
15:17:17 [Karen]
Ivan: one possibility is that you talk to the staff contact on that group and try to get that meeting set up
15:17:32 [Karen]
Bill Kasdorf: It would be valuable to have Markus on that call; he is on vacation in July
15:17:42 [Karen]
Ivan: Liza is right, keeping things running is also important
15:17:47 [Karen]
…whoever is around
15:17:51 [Karen]
…that would be good
15:18:02 [clapierre]
15:18:08 [Karen]
..we are running around this question for what to do with structural semantics for 2-3 months now
15:18:11 [liza]
ack Bill
15:18:15 [Karen]
…we know general direciton, but not sure if we can have it
15:18:16 [Karen]
ack Bill
15:18:21 [Karen]
Bill: quick comment on issues
15:18:30 [Karen]
…some we are looking at are not spec Access. issues
15:18:42 [Karen]
…but anything involving structural semantics is important to Accessibility
15:18:50 [liza]
ack clapierre
15:18:52 [Karen]
Bill: that would be our case to be made for why it's important
15:18:57 [Karen]
Ivan: yes, not sure if that was the case
15:19:06 [Karen]
Charles: I go on vacation for next 3 weeks
15:19:09 [Karen]
…back last week of July
15:19:21 [Karen]
Ivan: I return in mid-August
15:19:25 [Karen]
Charles: Early August is fine
15:19:33 [Karen]
Ivan: Let's see if Thierry can get the ball rolling
15:19:38 [ivan]
15:19:48 [liza]
ack Ivan
15:19:49 [Karen]
Action: Thierry to contact PF staff contact to arrange meeting
15:19:49 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-18 - Contact pf staff contact to arrange meeting [on Thierry Michel - due 2014-07-14].
15:20:07 [Karen]
Ivan: Other thing I was asking myself all along, without knowing details, for which I apologize
15:20:13 [Karen]
…WAI has many documents
15:20:27 [Karen]
…question I am asking, is are the documents all right for digital publishing?
15:20:38 [Karen]
…Are they applicable or not; are there things not covered by those documents?
15:20:39 [dkaplan]
15:20:45 [Karen]
…Having a review of the Authoring Tools
15:20:55 [Karen]
…the User Agent Accessibility Guidelines
15:20:57 [liza]
ack dkaplan
15:21:01 [Karen]
…I don't know whether or not they are complete
15:21:05 [Karen]
ack Deborah
15:21:21 [Karen]
Deborah: I am hearing what Liza was suggesting is to do a gap analysis of the WAI guidelines
15:21:32 [Karen]
…are there missing guidelines for digpub; is that the same idea?
15:21:34 [Karen]
Ivan: yes
15:21:40 [clapierre]
15:21:44 [Karen]
Deborah: That seems like a very good project for the Accessibility group
15:22:07 [Karen]
Ivan: yes, to "criticize what W3C provides"
15:22:13 [Karen]
…so who, when, where, and what
15:22:22 [Karen]
Liza: This may give you some time to work on this
15:22:38 [Karen]
Deborah: Having the task of reading through all of the WAI guidelines
15:23:00 [Karen]
…also seems like a good task for W3C to be doing periodically anyone; and what has changed in the overarching environment to keep that fresh
15:23:04 [Karen]
…I think that is a very good idea
15:23:09 [Karen]
Ivan: yes, I think so
15:23:14 [Karen]
…It is probably a good idea
15:23:37 [Karen]
…to get into contact with Shawn Henry, staff contact for these documents on the W3C team
15:23:48 [Karen]
…they may have some planning and timelines; which ones to look at first, tec.
15:23:53 [Karen]
s/tec, etc.
15:23:59 [Karen]
…not sure if you have had contact before
15:24:16 [Karen]
Deborah: I have spoken with her before
15:24:23 [Karen]
…I don't mind reaching out to Shawn
15:24:31 [Karen]
Ivan: check with her about their planning
15:24:34 [Karen]
Deborah: Sounds good
15:24:43 [clapierre]
15:24:45 [Karen]
Liza: Anything more, Ivan?
15:25:00 [Karen]
ack Charles
15:25:10 [liza]
ack clapierre
15:25:19 [Karen]
Charles: Are there links to the guidelines; and is UA same guidelines?
15:25:25 [Karen]
Ivan: Let me look
15:25:40 [ivan]
15:26:04 [Karen]
Ivan: Here is one place I know which lists the various documents. If you go there, the top three are the main documents that have been produced by W3C
15:26:11 [Karen]
…And the reason I refer to them
15:26:22 [Karen]
…Accessibility being as it is; mainly WCAG
15:26:41 [Karen]
…that one has been part of some official regulations in different countries; those are pretty widely used documents
15:26:48 [Karen]
…Web content is how you build your pages
15:26:53 [Karen]
…and what to be careful about
15:27:09 [Karen]
…Authoring Tools accessibility guidelines may be less important for this group, but I may be wrong
15:27:19 [Karen]
…User Agent Accessibility guidelines was done in view of browsers
15:27:26 [Karen]
…but same documents should be usable for reading systems
15:27:43 [Karen]
…There again, there may be things missing or some issues there to be driven back to reading systems developers
15:28:02 [Karen]
…I would think that WCAG and UAG require a pretty good review right now, depending upon the group's timing
15:28:05 [Karen]
Charles: Great
15:28:20 [ivan]
-> WCAG 2.0
15:28:22 [Karen]
Liza: Is that enough of a punch list?
15:28:27 [Karen]
Deborah: That seems pretty good to me
15:28:35 [Karen]
…I am also putting out a bulleted list
15:28:36 [ivan]
-> UAAG1.0
15:28:39 [Karen]
…to mail to WAI group
15:28:44 [Karen]
…please send to me
15:28:52 [Karen]
Liza: Good to send to the entire IG
15:28:55 [Karen]
Ivan: I agree
15:28:59 [Zakim]
15:29:00 [Karen]
…there may be something else
15:29:05 [clapierre]
yes I do
15:29:16 [Karen]
…Gerardo and a colleague of ours, Doug Schepers, have begun to work more seriously on SVG accessibility issues
15:29:23 [Karen]
…that is much more vague; there is no final document
15:29:39 [Karen]
…but with SVG coming to the fore for fixed-layout books, for example, that might be important here
15:29:44 [Karen]
…But I don't know where we are with that
15:29:48 [Karen]
…Maybe Gerardo knows
15:29:58 [Karen]
…Looking at that from publications POV could be interesting
15:30:09 [Karen]
Charles: Gerardo mentioned them to me; to read up on this
15:30:16 [Karen]
…could have Accessibility implications
15:30:18 [Karen]
Ivan: yes
15:30:25 [Karen]
..I think that is all I have, Liza
15:30:40 [Karen]
Liza: We don't have to decide what the next call will be about, but we will go on hiatus until when?
15:30:46 [Karen]
Ivan: I think we said 11 August
15:30:57 [Karen]
Liza: Sounds like Accessibility group will have some things to report then
15:31:07 [Karen]
Ivan; [laughs] they will have everything done!
15:31:18 [Karen]
Liza: We'll continue talking amongst ourselves for the next group meeting
15:31:22 [Karen]
…I have nothing further
15:31:30 [Karen]
…other than to wish people happy vacations
15:31:37 [Karen]
Liza: See you in August!
15:31:38 [Zakim]
15:31:39 [Zakim]
15:31:39 [Zakim]
15:31:40 [Zakim]
15:31:40 [Zakim]
15:31:41 [Zakim]
15:31:42 [Zakim]
15:31:43 [Zakim]
15:31:44 [Zakim]
15:31:45 [Karen]
rrsagent, draft mintues
15:31:45 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft mintues', Karen. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:31:46 [Zakim]
15:31:58 [Karen]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:31:58 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Karen
15:31:59 [AH_Miller]
AH_Miller has joined #DPUB
15:32:01 [Zakim]
15:32:20 [Zakim]
15:32:23 [clapierre]
clapierre has left #dpub
15:32:40 [Zakim]
15:36:17 [ivan]
zakim, who is here?
15:36:17 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AH_Miller, +1.734.904.aaii
15:36:19 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Bill_Kasdorf, murakami, brady_duga, tmichel, Zakim, RRSAgent, dauwhe, Karen, ivan, pkra, plinss, astearns_, liam, dkaplan, trackbot
15:39:17 [Zakim]
- +1.734.904.aaii
15:40:29 [ivan]
zakim, who is here?
15:40:29 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AH_Miller
15:40:31 [Zakim]
On IRC I see murakami, tmichel, Zakim, RRSAgent, dauwhe, Karen, ivan, pkra, plinss, astearns_, liam, dkaplan, trackbot
15:40:57 [ivan]
zakim, drop AH_Miller
15:40:57 [Zakim]
AH_Miller is being disconnected
15:40:58 [Zakim]
DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has ended
15:40:58 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.240.421.aaaa, Ivan, +1.617.439.aabb, AH_Miller, liza, +1.917.207.aacc, +, Karen_Myers, dauwhe, Luc, duga, +1.617.858.aaee, +1.408.979.aaff,
15:40:58 [Zakim]
... +1.206.675.aagg, dkaplan, astearns_, pkra, +1.217.300.aahh, astein, murakami, clapierre, tmichel, +1.734.904.aaii, fjh
15:41:06 [ivan]
trackbot, end telcon
15:41:06 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
15:41:06 [Zakim]
sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
15:41:14 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:41:14 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate trackbot
15:41:15 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
15:41:15 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in :
15:41:15 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Thierry to contact PF staff contact to arrange meeting [1]
15:41:15 [RRSAgent]
recorded in