13:37:24 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y
13:37:24 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/06/27-mobile-a11y-irc
13:37:26 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:37:26 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #mobile-a11y
13:37:28 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF
13:37:28 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_MATF()10:00AM scheduled to start in 23 minutes
13:37:29 <trackbot> Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
13:37:29 <trackbot> Date: 27 June 2014
13:40:43 <kw> 	1. /invite rrsagent
13:41:03 <kw> rrsagent, make log world
13:41:28 <kw> regrets +gavin, alan
13:48:55 <kathyw> kathyw has joined #mobile-a11y
13:54:00 <Zakim> WAI_MATF()10:00AM has now started
13:54:07 <Zakim> + +1.978.760.aaaa
13:55:58 <wuwei> wuwei has joined #mobile-a11y
13:59:52 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #mobile-a11y
14:00:35 <kathyw> zakim, aaaa is me
14:00:35 <Zakim> +kathyw; got it
14:03:11 <Zakim> +Jeanne
14:08:39 <Zakim> +EricP
14:08:45 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #mobile-a11y
14:08:56 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:09:01 <wuwei> zakim, EricP is wuwei
14:09:01 <Zakim> +wuwei; got it
14:09:28 <jon_avila> zakim, I am IPCaller
14:09:28 <Zakim> ok, jon_avila, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
14:09:57 <jeanne> scribenick: jeanne
14:10:04 <kathyw> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140512_survey/results#xq21
14:10:05 <jeanne> agenda?
14:10:31 <jeanne> topic: Number 20 in Survey - support for physical keyboard
14:11:29 <jeanne> KW: We have already talked about this issue and IndieUI
14:12:06 <jeanne> JA: If IndieUI was supported, that would allow this to be met, but if you didn't use a device independent method, you would have to work with these versions.
14:12:31 <jeanne> ... there would be other ways to meet it with the platform, like iOS Switch Access
14:12:56 <jeanne> KW: Detlev was it was too hard to write test procedures for it.
14:14:22 <jeanne> JS: Jan said it was a duplicate of #1
14:14:33 <jeanne> Resolution: Duplicate
14:14:55 <jeanne> Topic: Different Screen Sizes, #21
14:14:57 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
14:15:21 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:15:32 <jon_avila> zakim, I am IPCaller
14:15:32 <Zakim> ok, jon_avila, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
14:18:38 <jeanne> JA: It goes beyond WCAG, i think it should be a best practice
14:18:39 <wwu> wwu has joined #mobile-a11y
14:18:47 <jeanne> KW: I'm not sure what we are solving
14:21:22 <jeanne> JS: It is blocking responsive design, it could increase problems for people with low vision.  I could see same navigation across orientation as a best practise for people who are targeting an audience with certain cognitive disabilities.
14:21:32 <jeanne> KW: Where should we place it?
14:21:59 <jeanne> JA: This is from the Funka Nu gap analysis.
14:22:12 <jeanne> KW: 2.1.1 for keyboard
14:22:48 <jeanne> Topic: Users can see what page they are on #22
14:24:04 <jeanne> KW: Comments from Jon and Detlev recommend it as sufficient technique under 2.4.8 AAA
14:24:24 <jeanne> JS: Recommend tighting up the wording
14:25:03 <jeanne> RESOLUTION: 22 as a Sufficient technique under SC 2.4.8 AAA and fix the wording when we work on it.
14:25:17 <jeanne> topic: Use Vertical Navigation #23
14:25:46 <jon_avila> *my audio is not working correctly.   I am going to try to call in again.
14:25:57 <jeanne> KW: Detlev said "should be more descriptive, I guess what is menat is "Provide vertical navigation mechanisms that work without horizontal scolling on narrow width screens )whih I admit may be too wordy)"
14:27:08 <jeanne> JS: I don't think it should be ruled out, particularly for people working with fixed orientation portrait mode
14:27:40 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
14:29:11 <jeanne> KW: I can't see anyone doing this because it would cause such a bad user experience.  I don't think we should add something to the guidelines for unique cases.
14:29:32 <jeanne> KW:  I recommend dropping it
14:29:39 <jeanne> JS: +1
14:29:58 <jon_avila> * I'm having trouble getting into the audio system now -- it says the passcode is invalid
14:30:16 <kathyw> I just dropped
14:30:17 <kathyw> calling back in
14:30:23 <jeanne> Resolution: drop #23
14:30:53 <Zakim> +Tim_Boland
14:31:08 <Zakim> -kathyw
14:31:20 <Zakim> +kathyw
14:32:03 <jon_avila> * passcode is 6283# right?
14:32:14 <kathyw> yes
14:32:16 <jeanne> zakim, code?
14:32:17 <Zakim> the conference code is 6283 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), jeanne
14:33:06 <botie> botie has joined #mobile-a11y
14:33:29 <jeanne> botie, tell Kim we miss you
14:33:29 <botie> jeanne: what?
14:34:21 <jeanne> botie, inform Kim we hope you had a great vacation
14:34:21 <botie> will do
14:34:43 <jeanne> zakim, who is on the phone
14:34:43 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', jeanne
14:34:49 <jeanne> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:34:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see Jeanne, wuwei, Tim_Boland, kathyw
14:34:49 <botie> i already had it that way, jeanne.
14:34:55 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
14:35:06 <jon_avila> zakim, I am GVoice
14:35:06 <Zakim> ok, jon_avila, I now associate you with [GVoice]
14:35:48 <jeanne> Topic: Links with the page contents to key pages #24
14:36:13 <jeanne> KW: jon remarked that it was already in 2.4.5
14:36:32 <jeanne> ... are there any things that are different for mobile?
14:37:00 <jeanne> ... can we say this is already covered under 2.4.5?
14:37:17 <jeanne> Resolution: Sufficient technique already covered uner 2.4.5
14:37:44 <jeanne> Topic: Provide Open/Closed state in information in menu icon #25
14:38:30 <jeanne> KW: This describes the "hamberger" menu icon to indicate whether or not a menu is open or if there is information available under it.
14:39:00 <jeanne> JA: If it is ambiguous for everyone, it is not really an accessibility issue, except possibly for people with cognitive issues
14:39:35 <jeanne> ... visually, what happens when the menu is closed, the icon is the same. If the menu is open, then the icon moves or has some visual indication
14:39:50 <jeanne> ... would this be advisory or sufficient?
14:40:22 <jeanne> KW: This would be a case where ArIA haspopup or ARIA expanded as a technique
14:40:56 <jeanne> ... it's not necessarily apparent whether this should be apparent on a mobile device
14:41:16 <jeanne> JA: I could support it as a sufficient, but not a failure
14:41:42 <jeanne> ... we are talking about whether the user knows it is expanded or collapsed
14:42:34 <jeanne> JA: aria-expanded can only be used in [list]
14:43:11 <jeanne> ... if people used valid markup, @@
14:43:27 <jeanne> ... it would be ambiguous to users who can't see
14:43:53 <jeanne> KW: Make a sufficient technique under 4.1.2
14:44:09 <jeanne> TB: I think it should also go under 1.3.1
14:44:26 <jeanne> KW: I think of 1.3.1 as semantic, but I can see it in both places
14:44:54 <jeanne> Resolution: #25 as a sufficient technique under 4.1.2 and 1.3.1
14:45:32 <jeanne> Resolution: #26 is a duplicate
14:46:00 <jeanne> Topic: Menu can be zoomed to 200%
14:46:17 <jeanne> KW: It's already a technique under 1.4.4
14:46:36 <jeanne> ... we can addresss Detlev's comment when we actually work on it.
14:46:54 <jeanne> Resolution: Sufficient technique under 1.4.4
14:47:22 <jeanne> Topic: Links and actionalbe elements must be clearly distinguishable
14:47:33 <jeanne> Kw: [reads comments]
14:48:22 <jeanne> Resolution: Change wording of #13 to match #28 and consider them duplicates.
14:48:22 <botie> jeanne: that doesn't look right
14:48:50 <jeanne> Topic: Next meeting
14:48:56 <jeanne> No meeting 4 July
14:49:07 <Zakim> -Tim_Boland
14:49:13 <jeanne> Next meeting 11 July, we will start with #29
14:49:16 <Zakim> -[GVoice]
14:49:19 <Zakim> -wuwei
14:49:20 <Zakim> -kathyw
14:49:23 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
14:49:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/27-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jeanne
14:49:43 <jeanne> rrsagent, make logs public
14:50:02 <Zakim> -Jeanne
14:50:03 <Zakim> WAI_MATF()10:00AM has ended
14:50:03 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.978.760.aaaa, kathyw, Jeanne, [IPcaller], wuwei, Tim_Boland, [GVoice]
14:50:32 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
14:50:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/27-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jeanne
14:51:18 <jeanne> present- +1.978.760.aaaa, [IPcaller], [GVoice]
14:51:34 <jeanne> present+ JonA
14:51:50 <jeanne> chair: KathyW
14:52:04 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
14:52:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/27-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jeanne
14:52:50 <jeanne> s/Resolution/RESOLUTION
14:53:07 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
14:53:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/27-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jeanne
14:53:37 <jeanne> s/Resolution/RESOLUTION
14:53:41 <jeanne> s/Resolution/RESOLUTION
14:53:45 <jeanne> s/Resolution/RESOLUTION
14:53:50 <jeanne> s/Resolution/RESOLUTION
14:53:59 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
14:53:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/27-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jeanne
14:54:24 <jeanne> s/Resolution/RESOLUTION
14:54:29 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
14:54:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/27-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jeanne
14:55:19 <jeanne> s/uner 2.4.5/under 2.4.5
14:55:28 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
14:55:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/27-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jeanne
14:55:38 <jeanne> trackbot, end meeting
14:55:38 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
14:55:38 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
14:55:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:55:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/27-mobile-a11y-minutes.html trackbot
14:55:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
14:55:47 <RRSAgent> I see no action items