12:47:33 RRSAgent has joined #dap 12:47:33 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/06/26-dap-irc 12:47:35 RRSAgent, make logs world 12:47:37 Zakim, this will be DAP 12:47:37 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 12:47:38 Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference 12:47:38 Date: 26 June 2014 12:48:04 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jun/0084.html 12:48:21 fjh has changed the topic to: dap 3279 ; agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jun/0084.html 12:51:01 Chair: Frederick_Hirsch 12:51:13 Present+ Frederick_Hirsch 12:51:31 Topic: Welcome, agenda review, scribe selection, announcements 12:52:10 rrsagent, generate minutes 12:52:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/26-dap-minutes.html fjh 13:03:04 marcosc has joined #dap 13:05:25 dom has joined #dap 13:14:36 zakim, code? 13:14:36 the conference code is 3279 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), fjh 13:46:57 marcosc has joined #dap 13:47:52 marcosc has joined #dap 13:54:18 Present+ Mats_Wichmann 13:57:49 UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started 13:57:56 + +1.720.934.aaaa 13:59:19 +??P3 13:59:35 Zakim, ??P3 is me 13:59:35 +mats; got it 14:01:02 +[IPcaller] 14:01:04 +??P8 14:01:06 Zakim, ??P8 is me 14:01:06 +dom; got it 14:01:13 zakim, where is 720? 14:01:13 North American dialing code 1.720 is Colorado 14:01:19 zakim, ipcaller is me 14:01:19 +fjh; got it 14:01:32 anssik has joined #dap 14:01:42 +gmandyam 14:01:42 zakim, aaaa is Clarke_Stevens 14:01:43 +Clarke_Stevens; got it 14:02:02 gmandyam has joined #dap 14:02:06 +??P12 14:02:08 zakim, ??P12 is me 14:02:08 +anssik; got it 14:02:08 Present+ Clarke_Stevens, Giri_Mandyam, Dominique_Hazael-Massieux 14:02:21 Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen 14:02:37 zakim, who is here? 14:02:39 On the phone I see Clarke_Stevens, mats, fjh, dom, gmandyam, anssik 14:02:40 On IRC I see gmandyam, anssik, marcosc, dom, RRSAgent, fjh, mats, Josh_Soref__, slightlyoff__, tobie, Zakim, mounir, trackbot 14:03:06 +Lisa_DeLuca 14:03:23 Topic: Minutes approval 14:03:28 Approve minutes from 12 June 2014 14:03:29 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jun/att-0062/minutes-2014-06-12.html 14:03:31 LisaDeLuca_IBM has joined #dap 14:03:34 RESOLUTION: Minutes from 12 June 2014 are approved 14:03:47 Topic: Last Call HTML Media Capture, Light, Vibration 14:03:55 Last Call drafts of HTML Media Capture, Light, Vibration published, LC ends 24 July 2014 14:04:01 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jun/0076.html 14:04:47 fjh: assuming no comments on the LC drafts we would go to CR after, avoiding moratorium, planning 2nd week of Aug 14:05:05 fjh: thanks Anssi and all re preparing LC 14:06:13 +Cathy 14:07:28 fjh: planning on CR publication 12 or 14th Aug; lets plan on 14 Aug 14:07:58 Topic: Battery 14:08:08 next steps summary and questions: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jun/0080.html (Frederick) 14:08:09 additional comment http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jun/0081.html (Mounir) 14:08:34 fjh: have proposed changes, Proposed edit to new 2nd paragraph in section 6, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jun/0077.html 14:08:45 Follow up question/comment from Cathy http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jun/0079.html 14:09:07 fjh: cathy what is the issue here? 14:09:12 anssik: not sure what to change 14:09:59 cathy: mounir said if device is charging but don’t know charging time should set to infinity, spec says set to zero 14:10:22 anssik: can you please give a concrete request for changes or show commit 14:10:48 anssik: I plan to do all the edits later at once, so an email would help 14:11:24 fjh: mounir says ‘spec says to Infinity if the device is charging, zero if *charged*' 14:11:47 s/;{/;)/ 14:11:55 mounir, is there a strong argument for either case from your point of view 14:12:00 q+ 14:12:22 Cathy has joined #dap 14:14:34 fjh: why does it matter which choice of default, does charging state matter 14:14:44 anssik: knowing you have battery mattersr 14:14:53 fjh: ok, so like having full battery 14:15:17 s/mattersr/matters/ 14:16:04 fjh: ok, need to be consistent with full battery, thus unknown should be 0 14:16:44 cathy: will send email proposal 14:17:33 ack gmandyam 14:18:06 gmandyam: old coremob had developer survey, no developers using battery other than those creating battery meters 14:18:24 gmandyam: maybe get rid of charging time, not accurate, quick charge is an example 14:18:47 … snapdragon gives some capabilities to hardware, do not expose quick charge presence 14:19:09 … discharge time is very innacurate 14:19:18 … maybe we should get rid of both, not trustworhty 14:19:29 anssik: disagree, look at firefox, returns values on all platforms 14:19:43 gmandyam: can return it, but not necessarily correct 14:19:59 anssik: useful to have a rough indication, even if not closely accurate, good to have estimate 14:20:32 … up to implementer whether they want to use it 14:21:01 ISSUE: should charging time be retained in battery API if inaccurate 14:21:01 Created ISSUE-163 - Should charging time be retained in battery api if inaccurate. Please complete additional details at . 14:21:22 gmandyam: if implemented in OS does not mean it is necessary to support 14:21:34 ISSUE: correct default for charging time if unknown in battery 14:21:35 Created ISSUE-164 - Correct default for charging time if unknown in battery. Please complete additional details at . 14:21:54 gmandyam: something to consider, we might want to remove 14:22:14 anssik: leave it up to implementers 14:22:16 +1 on leaving it up to implementors 14:22:32 gmandyam: can leave up to implementers, perhaps add warning note to spec 14:22:54 rrsagent, where am I 14:22:54 I'm logging. I don't understand 'where am I', fjh. Try /msg RRSAgent help 14:23:24 ISSUE-163: leave up to implementers, perhaps add note warning possible innacurracy 14:23:24 Notes added to ISSUE-163 Should charging time be retained in battery api if inaccurate. 14:23:27 close ISSUE-163 14:23:27 Closed ISSUE-163. 14:23:48 RESOLUTION: not remove charging time from battery 14:23:57 ACTION-699? 14:23:57 ACTION-699 -- Giridhar Mandyam to Review battery and how low battery threshold is handled -- due 2014-06-19 -- OPEN 14:23:57 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/699 14:24:54 gmandam:: did not check with Firefox OS team, drivers same as in open source project, so low power indication has to be created by higher level os 14:25:02 … complie time issue 14:25:16 … some developers would like to adjust threshold but cannot update 14:28:03 q+ 14:29:56 ack anssik 14:30:29 fjh: no changed based on this action result 14:30:36 s/changed/spec change/ 14:31:08 Checked w/FF OS team - did not check with Tizen team. Any low power event would have to be created by the high level OS. The drivers do not provide this. In Android, the threshold for a low power event is fixed and determined at compile time. 14:31:12 anssik: platform defines low at compile time 14:31:23 fjh: does not sound useful, I’m asking why it is compiled in 14:32:15 Any implementation of battery API would require an implementer (i.e. browser vendor) to create this event based on a threshold. It may not be that useful to developers, as they have no control over the threshold. 14:34:13 http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-battery-status-20110915/ 14:34:52 anssik: had this attemped earlier, did not work, consistent with what gmandyam said 14:35:56 action: LisaDeluca_IBM to follow up with Cordova on result of discussion 14:35:56 Error finding 'LisaDeluca_IBM'. You can review and register nicknames at . 14:36:26 ACTION: lisa to follow up re closing January Cordova feedback 14:36:26 Created ACTION-704 - Follow up re closing january cordova feedback [on Lisa Collichio - due 2014-07-03]. 14:36:57 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jun/0068.html 14:37:29 fjh: this is message http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jun/0068.html 14:37:51 fjh: “Add warning to Battery API that (naive) implementation of API could negatively affect battery life” 14:38:35 anssi: agree to add this 14:38:47 zakim, who is here/ 14:38:47 I don't understand 'who is here/', fjh 14:38:51 zakim, who is here? 14:38:51 On the phone I see Clarke_Stevens, mats, fjh, dom, gmandyam, anssik, Lisa_DeLuca, Cathy 14:38:54 On IRC I see Cathy, LisaDeLuca_IBM, gmandyam, anssik, marcosc, dom, RRSAgent, fjh, mats, Josh_Soref__, slightlyoff__, tobie, Zakim, mounir, trackbot 14:39:08 ACTION-699? 14:39:08 ACTION-699 -- Giridhar Mandyam to Review battery and how low battery threshold is handled -- due 2014-06-19 -- OPEN 14:39:08 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/699 14:39:12 close ACTION-699 14:39:12 Closed ACTION-699. 14:39:30 fjh: need to close out Tim’s comments http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jun/0070.html 14:39:45 anssik: mounir is active on this as well 14:39:50 https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=122593 14:39:56 fjh: maybe mounir can confirm that the issues are closed? 14:40:53 fjh: we need confirmation from Tim or Mounir that Annsi’s response looks good http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jun/0070.html 14:41:05 mounir, do you think you could see the implementation https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=122593 matches the latest spec? 14:41:18 ... or get Tim look at it :-) 14:41:39 fjh: are there any other open items on battery apart from what we’ve been through 14:41:43 anssik: no 14:41:58 Topic: Testing Status update 14:42:20 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jun/0106.html 14:42:52 fjh: Thank you to Zhiquiang and Anssi for the updates and review and work on testing 14:43:16 fjh: ImplementationStatus portion of wiki with table, move other stuff elsewhere 14:43:19 s/Zhiquiang/Zhiqiang/ 14:43:34 fjh: please comment on list if concern 14:43:48 https://www.w3.org/2009/dap/wiki/User:Zqzhang/Test 14:44:01 https://www.w3.org/2009/dap/wiki/ImplementationStatus 14:45:41 fjh: need to clarify difference of complete failure vs having a failure 14:47:00 an example of test results: http://w3c.github.io/test-results/html-media-capture/all.html 14:47:37 fjh: this table is a very good improvement, very helpful and easier to understand 14:48:25 fjh: from a high level I see that Vibration has 2 implementations and only one issue to resolve, others only have 1 implementation apart from HTML Media Capture which has comment noting more work is needed 14:49:01 fjh: sent some feedback, apart from defining what test results mean would help to see overall status and whether there are failures at top level 14:49:22 ACTION-701? 14:49:22 ACTION-701 -- Zhiqiang Zhang to Provide summary of test status and next steps to dap wg -- due 2014-06-19 -- OPEN 14:49:22 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/701 14:49:27 close ACTION-701 14:49:27 Closed ACTION-701. 14:50:03 close ACTION-523 14:50:03 Closed ACTION-523. 14:51:14 fjh: saw additional updates on list of approved tests, so directory of tests has been updated, this is good 14:51:47 ambient light update http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jun/0085.html 14:52:08 vibration update http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jun/0100.html 14:52:43 https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/ 14:53:15 fjh: this is good to share summary updates on DAP list so we get informed when there is a change that we need to know about 14:53:34 fjh: more detail on github see link from anssik 14:53:39 -Clarke_Stevens 14:54:09 Topic: DAP Charter 14:54:23 call for DAP Charter additions, deadline 7 July: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jun/0082.html 14:54:39 Chartering considerations for Standby API http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2014Jun/0083.html 14:55:16 fjh: agree we have to be careful of detailed wording in charter, currently looking to see if we have other items 14:55:36 fjh: reason for asking is to see if we can simplify process or need to 14:57:28 fjh: we have informal and formal process, trying to get input early but then will use formal process to get input from AC etc 14:57:38 https://github.com/w3c-webmob/web-api-gap/ 14:57:52 anssik: this could be input to discussion 14:58:17 dom: good source of information, need to get feedback from developers, implementers etc 14:58:30 anssik: maybe we should use dom document as checklist 14:58:59 dom: will send message to web and mobile IG requesting input 14:59:42 Topic: Web Intents 14:59:53 fjh: TF item, has been dormant, renewed interest 15:00:01 fjh: wishes work from Robin related 15:02:33 fjh: need to figure out way forward, please join list discussion 15:02:42 -gmandyam 15:03:50 http://www.w3.org/2014/06/webapps-charter.html 15:03:55 dom: might have issue with Web Intents TF if WebApps does not include in revised charter, plan to drop from charter 15:04:26 fjh: we might want to include WebIntents in charter 15:04:43 dom: purpose initially was to give Web Intents attention, maybe not an issue now 15:04:47 fjh: ok 15:12:47 -dom 15:12:48 -mats 15:12:48 -anssik 15:12:50 -Lisa_DeLuca 15:12:52 -fjh 15:12:54 -Cathy 15:12:56 UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended 15:12:56 Attendees were +1.720.934.aaaa, mats, dom, fjh, gmandyam, Clarke_Stevens, anssik, Lisa_DeLuca, Cathy 15:13:12 Topic: Media Capture Task Froce 15:13:17 s/Froce/Force 15:13:42 fjh: much good work is happening in this task force, process on existing specs, new work being considered 15:13:48 fjh: information is on the DAP home page 15:14:10 fjh: I have asked the TF chairs to share an update, will do so in the next week or two 15:14:20 Topic: Chartering 15:14:29 anssik: what is the time frame and process for chartering 15:14:45 dom: charter expires at end of year, typically requires 2 months for the chartering process 15:14:58 dom: thus expect we will need a draft charter by end of October 15:15:25 fjh: we are looking now to see if there are additional charter items, apart from Standby API, by 7 July 15:15:57 fjh: if only change is standby API clarification we are seeing if there is a lightweight quicker process to add it, that could happen much earlier if possible 15:16:10 Topic: Upcoming Meetings 15:16:19 dom: regrets for July 15:16:32 s/dom/anssik/ 15:17:09 dom: regrets 24 July 15:17:28 fjh: will cancel meetings as appropriate 15:17:35 Topic: Action Items 15:19:49 fjh: I do not believe we need to give a generic action to Zhiqiang, he knows he is the testing facilitator and the status in the table. 15:20:14 ACTION-702? 15:20:15 ACTION-702 -- Anssi Kostiainen to Add paragraph to battery explaining model, update to 6.1 proposed by fjh -- due 2014-06-19 -- OPEN 15:20:15 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/702 15:20:19 ACTION-704? 15:20:19 ACTION-704 -- Lisa Collichio to Follow up re closing january cordova feedback -- due 2014-07-03 -- OPEN 15:20:19 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/704 15:21:19 ACTION-704? 15:21:19 ACTION-704 -- Lisa Seacat DeLuca to Follow up re closing january cordova feedback -- due 2014-07-03 -- OPEN 15:21:19 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/704 15:21:32 Topic: Other Business 15:21:33 none 15:21:36 Topic: Adjourn 15:21:40 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:21:40 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/26-dap-minutes.html fjh 15:22:42 Present- Cathy 15:22:49 Present+ Cathy_Chan 15:24:22 s/mounir, is there a strong argument for either case from your point of view// 15:24:33 s| s/;{/;)/\\ 15:25:06 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:25:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/06/26-dap-minutes.html fjh 15:31:52 lgombos has joined #dap 17:14:22 marcosc has joined #dap 18:13:55 lgombos has joined #dap 19:18:04 lgombos has joined #dap 19:48:47 lgombos has joined #dap 20:04:35 mats has joined #dap 22:19:41 marcosc has joined #dap 22:20:42 marcosc_ has joined #dap 22:32:10 marcosc has joined #dap 23:03:09 marcosc has joined #dap